Podcast Summary: Talking Feds – "Cracks in the ICE"

Episode Date: February 2, 2026
Host: Harry Litman
Guests: Kristen Holmes (CNN), Juliette Kayyem (Harvard, CNN), Josh Marshall (Talking Points Memo)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on a series of explosive political and legal crises, including the arrest of journalist Don Lemon, abuses and controversial raids by ICE and CBP in Minnesota, the fallout from the killing of protester Alex Preddy, an alarming DOJ search of the Fulton County election office, and the Trump administration's handling of immigration and rule of law. With panelists offering inside perspectives from the White House, DHS, and Capitol Hill, the discussion dissects how these events signal escalating tensions, governmental dysfunction, and potential shifts in political strategy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Arrest of Don Lemon and the Trump Administration's Media Tactics

• Context: Don Lemon (former CNN host/independent journalist) and Georgia Ford (another journalist) were arrested at a protest in a Minnesota church, charged with conspiracy to violate civil rights during their coverage. The DOJ's move came after a magistrate had rejected the case, and despite career prosecutors objecting.
• Motivation Analysis:
  • Kristen Holmes (04:51): "I don't think that it's about the Epstein files. I think that this is much more an issue of revenge for the president, who has long viewed Don Lemon as a thorn in his side and it is a clear violation of press freedom... this is something that President Trump has almost willed into existence."
  • Josh Marshall (05:52): "I don't even think they think that far ahead... it's just, you know, you just kind of do as many of them as they can. And, you know, one of the things about Trumpism is that the non Trump people think in this kind of discursive way... it's just you do a lot of stuff, a lot of aggression towards the bad people, and you just see where it goes."
  • Juliette Kayyem (07:48): "It's performative in the same way that Secretary Noem at DHS has her performative aspects... This is the Attorney General Bondi sort of performative aspects... [The White House] tweeted out when life gives you lemons. And then a picture of Don Lemon and says, don Lemon arrested. And it has two small emojis on it of chains."
• Significance: The consensus is that Lemon’s arrest (and similar cases) is less about legal substance than about show, revenge, demoralization of critics, and Trump's ongoing feud with the press (especially CNN).

Notable Moment:

• Kayyem on media targeting (09:23): "He likes to go after the host, go after Kaitlan Collins, go after various reporters. Don Lemon has built this thing of people who, who follow him and are invested in him. And this is what the White House wants to tear down as well. So it's both, you know, the, the traditional media was CNN and then this new media."

2. ICE Raids, the Killing of Alex Preddy, and Immigration Politics

• Background: Following the fatal shooting of protester Alex Preddy in Minneapolis by CBP officials and widespread anti-ICE backlash, the administration attempts de-escalation by sending Tom Homan, known for hardline but methodical immigration enforcement.
• Inside the White House:
  • Kristen Holmes (12:09): "Nobody inside the administration... thinks that tensions don't need to come down in Minneapolis. Everybody saw the video... and everybody understands that there needs to be kind of an off ramp here within the administration."
  • She explains Homan was brought in to present a "grownup" face, while Trump continues harsh rhetoric to appease his base, even contradicting Homan in public statements.
  • ICE operations are shifting from chaotic, visible raids to more "targeted" enforcement—but the administration is essentially talking out of both sides.
• Josh Marshall on Broader Motives (15:00): "They want to use big numbers of deportations to really cast a pall of fear among undocumented people... They're also trying to create this visible penumbra of menace in blue cities that has nothing to do with undocumented people. It is this kind of punitive push… to create like a secret police, national secret police that operates in a fourth amendment free zone."
• Juliette Kayyem on Homan's Role (18:10): Walks through how Trump administration actors (Homan, Noem, Stephen Miller) shift narratives and seek an "off ramp" while blaming blue states for not cooperating— claims which are often false, as "The most liberal cities... do allow ICE to deport people who've been convicted of violent crimes."
• Strategic Chaos:
  • The panel describes internal chaos and conflicting voices in the Trump White House, especially on immigration, with actors jockeying for the president’s approval often by going public first or reframing policy.

Memorable Quote

• Kayyem (22:05): "Most Americans now appear to agree: we want stronger borders, stop the abuses of asylum, get things in order. And we really, really do not like interior enforcement — again, unless it's violent people."

3. The Civil Rights Investigation into the Preddy Killing

• The DOJ's Move: DOJ Civil Rights Division belatedly announces an investigation into the CBP shooting of Alex Preddy — but skepticism abounds about sincerity and motive.
  • Kayyem (27:07): "This would have been a no brainer. I mean, the fact that we're seven days later is just — shows just how... the basic contours of the department in terms of what it views its mission, what the assistant Attorney General for civil rights views as her mission, is off tremendously."
• Federal-State Tension: Harry Litman points out the unprecedented spectacle of DOJ actively impeding a state’s investigation: (29:03) "Bill Yeomans... said he has never. Zero, not once seen the department not simply hang back, but literally try to impede and erect hurdles to a state investigation."
• National Outrage & Trump’s Shift:
  • Marshall (31:09): "You see this video, you see a guy holding up his cell phone. He's crashed on by like half a dozen guys. You see them like wailing on him... clearly not just violence... but out of control violence."
  • Holmes (33:41): "Trump... does have a finger on the pulse... when he watched this play out... he started hearing from other people. He started watching the different angles... this was not good and it wasn't a winner... What this video does is it allows Donald Trump to muddy the water. Now it becomes somewhat of a talking point... just enough to where there are questions."

4. Congressional Shutdown Politics and ICE

• Shutdown Avoidance:

  • Kristen Holmes (41:48): "The politics of a shutdown were bad. They were bad for everybody. The last for everybody... They blame Washington. They don't even necessarily, as far as we can see, always tend to just blame the party in power at a certain point. They're pissed off at everybody."
  • Josh Marshall (43:09): Notes Democrats now have more leverage by tying shutdown to ICE and using public outrage against interior enforcement, though DHS agencies would largely keep running under 'essential' exemptions, making any shutdown of ICE more symbolic than operational.
  • Juliette Kayyem (44:19): "The department is wildly unpopular. NOME is wildly unpopular... it will be good to have a discussion about masking or at least beyond and, and the kind of raise that ICE is doing, because they are wildly unpopular, even if the Democrats fold in two weeks or only get some of the concessions."

• Leadership Performance:

  • Marshall on Schumer's adaptation (47:22): "You can, you may not be able to teach an old dog new tricks, but you can get them to sit right, shake hands, all that kind of stuff. So it's because he's coming along."
  • Kayyem (48:10): "What we can do is make sure that Trump is not popular and keep him below 40%. If that's your metric, good job."

5. DOJ Warrant on Fulton County Election Office & DNI Tulsi Gabbard

• Surprise Raid: The DOJ's raid on the Fulton County election office as part of chasing Trump’s 2020 election fraud claims draws near-universal confusion and criticism.
• Tulsi Gabbard's Role:
  • Kayyem (49:54): "All I'm going to say is your problem, Harry, is you're looking at it through a legal lens. And I'm just going to quote Kristen and say it's for that narrative that they want through the political lens... This is a three alarm fire, guys."
  • Holmes (53:26): "Tulsi Gabbard needed a job. Like, she's not good at being the Director of National Intelligence... She picked up a pet project and... this is her project now."
    (54:37): "If she can't even get in the door on Iran, she's going to try to get in the door whatever way she can. So she picked up a pet project and... now all of a sudden she's back in the loop to doing voting stuff."
• Trump’s Pathology:
  • Marshall (51:44): "As he gets less popular and in a domestic political sense, gets weaker, it is unavoidable for him that he will try to lash out... in prerogative powers where... your power is all but untrammeled."

Notable Exchange:

• Litman (56:53), on Gabbard’s photo op in Georgia: "It's not like, oh, she just stopped in like because she was in Atlanta."

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Trump’s motives:
  • "It's not about any of those things. It's just you do a lot of stuff, a lot of aggression towards the bad people, and you just see where it goes. It's not that thought out." – Josh Marshall (05:55)
• On CBP and constitutional rights:
  • "You're taking those border rules and you know, taking them nationwide literally... it really is a total end run around the whole corpus of civil liberties and search and seizure. None of that matters suddenly because you have a CBP badge on. And that's crazy." – Josh Marshall (24:15)
• On the impact of video evidence:
  • "People watching this, Republicans and Democrats alike with their mouth open... what this video does is it allows Donald Trump... to muddy the water. Right? It becomes somewhat of a talking point." – Kristen Holmes (34:03)
• On government dysfunction and fragmentation:
  • "You have actors on different sides actually getting out front of the President, hoping that that will influence." – Harry Litman (21:52)
• On Tulsi Gabbard's role:
  • "She needed a job. And there's one way to always make sure that you are in the good graces of the boss, which is take a pet project and run with it." – Kristen Holmes (53:26)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:00–09:30: Breakdown of Don Lemon's arrest and the Trump admin's attacks on journalists.
• 12:09–18:10: Discussion of ICE, CBP, Alex Preddy shooting, and Trump’s immigration strategy.
• 25:52–38:40: DOJ response to Preddy shooting; divergence between federal and state investigations.
• 41:48–48:10: Congress’s shutdown deliberations and leverage using ICE abuses.
• 49:54–56:53: DOJ's search of Georgia election office, Tulsi Gabbard's odd presence, analysis as power move and "three alarm fire" for democracy.

Episode Tone

• Candid, urgent, at times irreverent. Panelists mix sharp legal and political insights with dark humor and direct criticism of the administration's actions, using metaphors of cinematic universes (Marvel), “three alarm fires,” and “performative” politics to underscore their concerns about press freedom, rule of law, and governmental chaos.

Closing

Final note: The panel agreed the week's events mark new lows for American institutions under Trump: a DOJ bent to political aims, ICE/CBP functioning as a paramilitary force, and a media environment targeted for intimidation. Yet, the shocking violence in Minneapolis appears to have handed the Democrats a political weapon—if they’re willing to wield it—and public opinion may force both parties to reconsider the politics of immigration enforcement.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone tracking the erosion of rule-of-law, the weaponization of law enforcement, and the shifting dynamics of 2026 American politics.