Talking Feds – “Is No Kings a Turning Point? (Plus a baseball bonus on Ohtani!)”

Host: Harry Litman
Guests: Congressman Eric Swalwell, Ben Walker
Date: October 23, 2025

Overview

This wide-ranging episode of Talking Feds dives into two headline subjects. First, Harry Litman has a one-on-one with Congressman Eric Swalwell to unpack the extraordinary “No Kings” nationwide protests, the rising fear and resilience around U.S. democracy, ongoing Congressional gridlock over health care, the strategic use of protest and legal leverage under Trump, and accountability battles at every government level. The back half is a “bonus” segment: a spirited, expert analysis with baseball writer Ben Walker about Shohei Ohtani’s historic game – debated as the most dominant single-game performance ever.

Main Segment: The “No Kings” Protests and the State of U.S. Democracy

Guests: Harry Litman & Rep. Eric Swalwell
Timestamps: [00:00]–[22:25]

The Scene at No Kings Protests

• Swalwell’s Participation: Attended rallies in Sacramento (10,000+) and Pleasanton, CA (5,000+) ([01:35])
  • Diverse, family-filled crowds; “full of love for America and a hate for fascism.”
  • Sustained solidarity from the local community: “non-stop honking for the solid hour I was there.”
  • Quote: “People who showed up, they love this country. They just don’t want to lose it to an aspiring dictator.” — Eric Swalwell ([01:54])
• Patriotism, Not Partisanship: Both Swalwell and Litman stress the events’ “wholesome,” “patriotic” energy, directly countering rightwing spin ([03:01], [04:18]).
• Rightwing Response: Administration and Speaker Mike Johnson label protests as “hate America rallies,” then shift to mockery when turnout is massive ([04:18]).
  • Quote: “They don’t know what to call it…if seven million Americans are showing up for a hate rally, that means they don’t like you.” — Swalwell ([04:26])
  • Anecdote: Trump posts an AI video “literally shitting on America.” ([04:44])

Popular Resistance and Democratic Resilience

• The “Four Legs” of Democracy ([06:28]):
  1. Congress as a check (gone)
  2. Independent judiciary (still surprisingly effective)
  3. Free press (partially eroded, still fighting)
  4. Engaged public/town square (vital but at risk of demoralization)
  • Quote: “Democracy is a table that…sits on top of four legs…The first leg is gone…If we don’t win the midterms, the next leg that would go…is the town square.” — Swalwell ([06:32])
• Urgency of Midterms: Midterms are “our last, best chance to uphold democracy,” as losing protest momentum will make unchecked executive power and further institution hollowing more likely ([06:28]-[08:29]).
• Autocracy Warning: Litman notes that further erosion of checks will mean Americans “effectively live on the other side” — under autocracy, even as daily routines remain unchanged ([08:29]).

Congressional Gridlock & Health Care

• Democratic Strategy During Shutdown ([09:23]):
  • Democrats’ linchpin issue: Extending health insurance subsidies (not new spending, just maintaining existing aid).
  • Consequences if not extended: Higher premiums for millions; overall health costs rise as more uninsured use ERs.
  • Quote: “We will vote to open up government when you extend what you have allowed to lapse, because on November 1st, millions…will find out what they’re paying in the next calendar year for their health insurance.” — Swalwell ([09:57])
• Speaker Mike Johnson’s Strategy: Keeps Congress out of session during shutdown, stifling pressure and negotiations — a shift from prior shutdowns ([10:58]).
  • Quote: “The only difference between this shutdown and the last three is that…they don’t want to have a Congress open where Donald Trump would be exposed.” — Swalwell ([11:36])

Legal & Retribution Tactics under Trump

Timestamps: [12:53]–[22:25]

DOJ Retaliation: Indictments of Comey, Letitia James

• Swalwell’s Prosecutor Perspective: Trump weaponizing DOJ against perceived enemies; indicting for accusations he could’ve pursued while in office is especially suspect ([13:06]).
• Legal Strategy: Jury acquittals (“vindication from juries”) versus seeking dismissals on legal grounds.
  • Quote: “Having an acquittal from a jury of your peers is the best statement…But…my ass is not in the defendant’s seat…” — Swalwell ([13:38])
• Litman’s Analysis: Motions to dismiss on strong grounds likely, but dismissals let Trump claim “victory” while jury acquittals are riskier but more definitive ([14:33]-[16:29]).

Targeting the Opposition: Personal Consequences

• Swalwell on Being Targeted: Acknowledges threats, being “enemy #1 & #2” per Trumpworld lists ([17:31]).
  • Quote: “It’s aimed…at people who have not even been named yet, just to intimidate them…Our strength in numbers really is the only way out.” ([18:28])
• Solidarity, Not Backing Down: Maintaining public opposition is crucial to resisting intimidation, both for named targets and the “second and third circle”—those contemplating speaking out ([19:08]).

State-Level Accountability & Federalism

• AGs’ Power: Swalwell frustrated state Democratic attorneys general aren’t using enforcement powers enough, e.g., prosecuting ICE agents for false imprisonment ([19:37]).
  • Litman: Structural, legal, and jurisdictional barriers make it “quixotic” to prosecute individual federal agents, but institutional pushbacks—lawsuits and oversight—are real levers ([20:44]).
  • Quote: “Win the House and you have real accountability through subpoena power, oversight, power of the purse.” — Swalwell ([22:17])

Bonus Segment: Shohei Ohtani’s “Miracle” Game – Was it Baseball’s Best Ever?

Guests: Harry Litman & Ben Walker
Timestamps: [24:39]–[48:39]

Setting the Stage ([24:39]–[26:36])

• Shohei Ohtani, in one game, hits three home runs and strikes out 10 batters to clinch the pennant for the Dodgers.
  • Quote: “It didn’t look real…when he hit that third home run…almost looked like a cartoon…not possible. What we saw is not possible.” — Ben Walker ([25:44]-[26:16])

Baseball Romance & Historical Context ([27:02]-[31:31])

• Ohtani’s feat evokes golden-age baseball myths, like Babe Ruth’s “called shot” or Shoeless Joe’s legend.
• October “brings a certain mystique and magic” — context deeply matters in comparing greatness ([29:33]).
• Ohtani is a “six tool player…we’ve never seen this before. No one alive has seen [anything like it].” ([30:24])

The Greatest Game Ever? Debating the Yardstick ([31:31]-[36:05])

• Other legendary games: Don Larsen’s perfect game, Lou Gehrig’s 4-HR game, Roberto Clemente’s all-around brilliance, Rick Wise’s 1971 no-hitter with two home runs as a pitcher.
• Ben Walker’s verdict: Wise’s game still edges Ohtani’s for “best ever”—but only barely ([32:44]-[35:23]):
  • Quote: “His performance was the most eye popping…But I’m not making it number one…in 1971, Rick Wise pitches a nine-inning no hitter and he hits two home runs…” ([32:47]-[34:05])

Modern Baseball and Ohtani’s Place in History ([36:05]-[40:15])

• Specialization vs. Heroics: Modern managers don’t let pitchers finish what would have been legendary outings; in Ohtani’s era he’s often pulled early.
• Ohtani’s dual role—pitching and hitting—hasn’t been seen since the early days of Babe Ruth, but Ohtani does simultaneously what Ruth only did for a short overlap period ([31:31], [38:54]).
• Quote: “If he puts together another three or four years like this…he is the best baseball player who ever lived.” — Ben Walker ([38:54])

Ohtani’s Global Impact ([40:15]-[41:56])

• In Japan, Ohtani is omnipresent; in the Caribbean, baseball is huge; but worldwide, the sport isn’t as universally dominant as soccer or basketball.
• Potential to be baseball’s “Pele,” but true global crossover still elusive—for now.

The Mythic & Artistic Quality of Ohtani’s Night ([42:02]-[46:03])

• The “game myth”: Ohtani’s performance felt “otherworldly”—like baseball’s equivalent of poetry or a fable.
• Quote: “We were always told…don’t say a thing is a legend unless it really is. But I’m going to tell you, that was a legendary performance.” — Ben Walker ([45:55])

Watching History & Baseball’s Emotional Power ([46:03]-[47:17])

• For the millions who watched, including on YouTube, the performance was transcendent—“could bring tears to your eyes.”
• The moment was not just numbers or highlights, but “transcended anything…any baseball fan had ever seen.” ([47:17])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “People who showed up, they love this country. They just don’t want to lose it to an aspiring dictator.” — Eric Swalwell ([01:54])
• “If we don’t get this right and we don’t win the midterms, the next leg that would go…is the town square.” — Eric Swalwell ([06:48])
• “It’s aimed…just to intimidate them from ever…speaking up against what Donald Trump is doing. Our strength in numbers really is the only way out.” — Eric Swalwell ([18:28])
• “It didn’t look real. What we saw is not possible.” — Ben Walker on Ohtani ([25:44]-[26:16])
• “His performance was the most eye popping…but I’m not making it number one on my all time list…1971, Rick Wise pitched a nine inning no-hitter and he hit two home runs.” — Ben Walker ([32:47])
• “If he puts together another three or four years like this, he is the best baseball player who ever lived.” — Ben Walker ([38:54])
• “We were always told…don’t say a thing is a legend unless it really is. But I’m going to tell you, that was a legendary performance.” — Ben Walker ([45:55])

Key Timestamps

• Protest Reflections & Patriotism: [01:13]–[05:01]
• Democracy’s “Missing Legs,” Importance of Midterms: [06:28]–[08:29]
• Shutdown, Health Care Stand-off: [09:23]–[11:36]
• DOJ Retaliation & Legal Strategy: [12:53]–[16:29]
• Living Under Retaliation, Importance of Solidarity: [17:31]–[19:08]
• State AGs, Federalism, Institutional Leverage: [19:37]–[22:25]
• Ohtani’s Historic Game Analysis Begins: [24:39]
• Romance and Myths of Baseball: [27:02]
• Greatest Game Debates/Comparisons: [31:31]–[36:05]
• Modern Baseball Context & Ohtani’s Legacy: [36:05]–[40:15]
• Ohtani as Global Icon: [40:15]–[41:56]

Tone and Takeaway

The episode blends urgent, high-stakes political discussion with the joy and wonder of sports legend—both underpinned by a theme of resilience and the power of collective action, whether in democracy or in pitching history. In both, the message is clear: extraordinary moments are defined not just by adversity or artistry, but by the millions who refuse to shrink back.