Talking Feds: "The Dog That Hasn't Barked"
Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Harry Litman
Guests: Neera Tanden, Jennifer Rubin, Norm Eisen
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the explosive, evolving scandal surrounding the Trump administration and the Jeffrey Epstein files. As Trump does an about-face—now telling Republicans to support the release of DOJ documents he once tried to suppress—the panel examines what recent revelations mean for the former president, the Justice Department, and American democracy. The show also unpacks the recent end to the longest government shutdown in history, the political fallout for both parties, and how reprisal prosecutions signal deeper abuses of power.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Epstein Scandal: What’s New and Why It Matters
[05:25–25:46]
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House Democrats Release New Epstein Emails
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Three new emails strongly suggest Trump’s involvement with Epstein, contradicting his longstanding denials. An email from Epstein himself states “Trump was aware,” and another mentions Trump meeting an unnamed victim at Epstein’s house.
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The panel agrees these emails directly implicate Trump in the scandal and detail the administration’s apparent effort to suppress damning information.
Norm Eisen:
“We got further corroboration that Donald Trump is lying when he says he was not aware of the scandal...” [05:25]
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Corruption and DOJ Complicity
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Ghislaine Maxwell’s allegedly favorable treatment by DOJ is attacked, with panelists doubting the official narrative. Maxwell’s own statements in the emails are contradicted by new evidence.
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The group challenges Todd Blanche (deputy AG) and Pam Bondi (attorney general) for their roles in handling the case in ways seemingly intended to protect Trump.
Jennifer Rubin:
“Why was the Deputy Attorney General in there rather than a line prosecutor to find out real information?” [14:58]
“Pam Bondi has lied again and again and again... This is why we need a special counsel.” [15:15]
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Evidence of Conspiracy and Obstruction
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The panel zeroes in on two emails: one where Epstein claims he could “take Trump down,” and another referencing “the dog that didn’t bark”—an implicit nod to a conspiracy of silence.
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The discussion is heated about whether Trump engineered personnel assignments (e.g., putting his personal attorney in charge) to subvert the investigation.
Neera Tanden:
“If you landed from another planet and just looked at this case, it would seem pretty obvious that the President of the United States is himself obstructing justice...” [11:28]
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Political Calculations and the House/Senate Vote
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Trump’s sudden reversal to support file release is suggested to be a tactic facing likely defeat in the House.
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The next front is the Senate; Democrats are urged to raise hell and hold voters' feet to the fire.
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Accountability is vital—every Republican, especially those up for re-election, should be asked about their stance on releasing the Epstein files.
Neera Tanden:
“The only rational explanation is the most obvious one... he’s in the files.” [19:24]
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2. The Longest Shutdown: Fallout and the Healthcare Fight
[26:46–40:32]
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Shutdown Ends, but Healthcare Subsidies Lost
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The deal ends the shutdown but lets key Obamacare subsidies expire, causing real pain for millions of Americans.
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The group highlights both the short- and long-term political consequences—Republicans are blamed (and polling reflects it), but Democrats remain divided over the compromise.
Neera Tanden:
“Millions upon millions of people... have health insurance today because a prior Congress made the tax credits more affordable... That has been taken away essentially by Republican inaction.” [26:55]
Jennifer Rubin:
“It is never, never a good idea in politics to lose. Period. So it's no blessing in disguise.” [35:23]
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Strategizing for the Future
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Panelists urge Democrats not to shy away from tough fights, even at the risk of defeat, warning against the lesson that losing means not fighting at all.
Neera Tanden:
“We talked about it was a mistake. I just don't want Democrats to emerge from this with the lesson that it's better not to have fought at all than to fight and lose.” [40:05]
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3. Reprisal Prosecutions and DOJ Abuse
[41:11–51:41]
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Vindictive Prosecutions under Scrutiny
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Recent indictments against former officials like James Comey and Letitia James are scrutinized. The judge seems ready to dismiss, noting the questionable appointment of prosecutor Lindsey Halligan.
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The panel discusses the wider pattern: DOJ being weaponized to punish political enemies, with little regard to legal merit.
Norm Eisen:
“There is much of an epidemic of lawlessness as the National Guard and ICE assaults on an innocent population in city after city...” [43:16]
“You should never bring a case... unless you believe it can result in a guilty verdict in front of a jury.” [44:14]
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Erosion of Trust in the Justice Department
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The legacy of these abuses leaves federal courts increasingly skeptical and erodes the assumption of government good faith.
Jennifer Rubin:
“The federal bench is onto these people... their assumption is something must be awry as opposed to the presumption of regularity...” [45:06]
Neera Tanden:
“Trump's numbers on just dealing with the federal government are at historic lows... they also think of it as a semi corrupt enterprise where he's just using it for his own interests.” [49:30]
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Connecting the Dots: Pattern of Authoritarianism
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The panel stresses the cumulative effect: actions such as deploying the National Guard for political ends and prosecuting adversaries represent a drift toward totalitarian behavior.
Norm Eisen:
“This is true totalitarian behavior. The National Guard and ICE and the prosecutions. That's what Beria said to Stalin: 'You show me the man, I'll show you the crime.' Now it's Eric Swalwell. I mean, give me a break.” [51:24]
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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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Norm Eisen:
“We got further corroboration that Donald Trump is lying...” [05:25]
“He's removed anybody who will say no to him... It's apologists and enablers all the way down.” [16:19]
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Jennifer Rubin:
“They look just as complicit... I don't think we should call this the Epstein scandal... This is the Trump scandal.” [08:03]
“It is never, never a good idea in politics to lose. Period. So it's no blessing in disguise.” [35:23]
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Neera Tanden:
“The only thing that makes sense for all the behavior we have seen... is the most obvious one.” [19:24]
“If you landed from another planet... it would seem pretty obvious that the President... is himself obstructing justice...” [11:28]
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On the DOJ:
“For them to be embarrassed... to be thrown out on the Comey case... I think will harm their credibility.” – Jennifer Rubin [44:36]
“... this is true totalitarian behavior... Now it's Eric Swalwell. I mean, give me a break. It's almost comical.” – Norm Eisen [51:24]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Epstein Revelations, Emails, and Trump’s Involvement:
[05:25] – [25:46] - Shutdown Deal and Health Care Implications:
[26:46] – [40:32] - Reprisal Prosecutions and DOJ Weaponization:
[41:11] – [51:41] - Panel’s "Five Words or Fewer" Wrap-up:
[52:38] – [53:12]
Tone & Style
The conversation is driven, urgent, and sometimes incredulous—a mix of seasoned legal analysis, exasperation at blatant corruption, and barely-contained outrage. Intellectual but accessible, with frequent moments of dark humor and gallows wit.
Conclusion
The episode paints a picture of an administration enmeshed in scandal, protected by enablers at all levels, but now facing bipartisan demands for transparency on the Epstein files. Simultaneously, the show illustrates how government dysfunction—witnessed in the recent shutdown—hurts vulnerable Americans, even as both parties maneuver for political advantage. Over it all looms the specter of authoritarian escalation, as the panel warns that reprisal prosecutions and DOJ manipulation portend deep threats to the rule of law. The message is clear: these battles are far from over, and accountability—political and legal—is more crucial than ever.