Podcast Summary: Tangle – ABC Temporarily Suspends Jimmy Kimmel's Show

Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Isaac Saul
Co-Host: John Lowell

Episode Overview

This episode dives into ABC’s indefinite suspension of Jimmy Kimmel’s late-night show, following controversial comments Kimmel made regarding the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. The hosts dissect the incident: what happened, reactions across the political spectrum, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr’s involvement, and the implications for free speech. The episode closes with staff commentary and answers a listener’s question about “soft secession” by blue states.

Episode Structure

1. Main Story Introduction
2. Recap of U.S. and world political events ("Quick Hits")
3. Detailed breakdown of the Kimmel controversy
4. Arguments from the political right
5. Arguments from the political left
6. Host Isaac Saul’s personal take
7. Staff dissents
8. Listener Q&A
9. Under-the-radar story & statistics

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Incident: What Happened

[07:21 – 10:48]

• Jimmy Kimmel was suspended by ABC after his late-night monologue about the Charlie Kirk assassination:
  • Kimmel accused some Republicans (“the MAGA gang”) of trying to disassociate the suspected shooter from right-wing politics and politicizing the tragedy.
  • This sparked substantial outrage among conservatives, amplified by FCC Chairman Brendan Carr.
  • Carr threatened regulatory action against ABC, saying on a podcast, “We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to take action on Kimmel, or there is going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.” (John Lowell, 08:09)
• ABC’s Response:
  • Nexstar, a major affiliate owner, preempted the show on 30 ABC stations.
  • ABC suspended Kimmel's show “indefinitely” but did not fire him.
  • Kimmel’s representatives are negotiating with Disney about his return.

Notable Moment:
“Congratulations to ABC for finally having the courage to do what had to be done.” – Donald Trump, responding on Truth Social (John Lowell, 09:53)

2. Arguments from the Right

[12:12 – 15:38]

• Predominant View: The suspension was a corporate, not government, decision and justified due to Kimmel’s misleading audience.
  • Zachary Faria, Washington Examiner:

    “He chose to dip his toes in the water of the conspiracy theory that Kirk was killed by a right-wing supporter of President Donald Trump. Kimmel lied to his audience, and syndicates knew that they would have to pay the price of a boycott… Kimmel wasn’t censored… by Trump’s FCC.” (12:49)

  • Mark Davis, Fort Worth Star Telegram:
    Calls the suspension “accountability” and a sign of “basic standards of decency making a comeback.” (13:54)
  • Some warn, however, of the precedent:
  • Sen. Ted Cruz (on his podcast “The Verdict”):

    “I hate what Jimmy Kimmel said and I’m thrilled that he was fired. But let me tell you, if the government gets in the business of saying we don’t like what the media has to say and we’re going to ban you from the airwaves, that will end up bad for conservatives.” (14:51)

3. Arguments from the Left

[15:39 – 20:05]

• Viewpoint: The move is an example of government coercion and a direct attack on free speech.
  • Anthony L. Fisher, MSNBC:

    “It’s called jawboning and it doesn’t matter if a private company is the entity that ultimately took Kimmel off the air. That entity did so under duress from the government. This is censorship.” (16:28)

  • Jeet Heer, The Nation:

    “Kimmel’s words were neither offensive nor factually wrong… The right seized on them and mischaracterized them. The political economy of… authoritarianism is clear… An authoritarian president such as Trump can easily destroy free speech.” (17:52)

  • Adam Serwer, The Atlantic:

    “Kimmel made a mistake… it would have been appropriate for him to apologize… Instead, he was silenced by a government and its allies that want to control what you say… What happened to Kimmel is something different, a state-backed campaign of repression.” (19:06)

4. Isaac Saul's Take (“My Take”)

[20:05 – 26:53]

• Free Speech Crisis: Saul calls the current environment for free speech “the scariest moments for free speech that I’ve ever lived through.” (20:08)
• He distinguishes Kimmel’s irresponsible joke from the “mafia-style” threats made by the FCC.

  “The FCC chair’s mafia-style threat to ABC was so clear it drew rebukes from people like Senator Ted Cruz… This is the latest in a series of worrisome crackdowns on free speech.” (21:44)

• Saul connects this event to broader trends: legal threats, chilling effect on journalists, and pressure on newsrooms/social media platforms to comply with the current administration’s preferences.
• Historical Context: Compares this moment to past attacks on speech, but says the sheer volume and intensity today is “unprecedented, at least in the last few decades.” (24:50)
• On Trump’s rhetoric at Kirk’s memorial:

  “In his remarks, [Trump] called out his one disagreement with Kirk: ‘I hate my opponents and I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Erica.’ Some in the crowd jeered, others laughed… But this is where we are right now.” (25:58)

• Calls for vigilance: “The temptation for those in power to use whatever means available to justify their ends is always great, but the lasting impact is never just those people's ends. It's the means themselves.” (26:35)

5. Staff Dissents

[26:53 – 28:55]

• Audrey Moorhead (Associate Editor):
  Critiques Saul for understating severity of prior free speech crackdowns (e.g., Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus, McCarthyism, Alien and Sedition Acts). Says focusing on only recent decades is a “rhetorical trick.” (26:53)
• Will Kaback (Senior Editor):
  Not overly alarmed by Kimmel’s suspension, finds Carr’s behavior inappropriate but not actual government censorship, and predicts that legal checks would have kicked in if the FCC used its full powers. Points more blame at ABC’s corporate capitulation. (27:48)

6. Listener Q&A: ‘Soft Secession’ by Blue States

[30:37 – 33:25]

• Beth from Tehachapi asks: about reports of “soft secession.”
• Isaac Saul:
  Explains that blue states are not seceding, but may increasingly resist the Trump administration by:
  • Not enforcing federal laws they oppose (e.g., on abortion, immigration)
  • Asserting state independence in legal and financial frameworks
  • Notes that real secession is not happening; these are forms of noncooperation

7. Under-the-Radar Story & Numbers

[33:25 – 35:55]

• Guardian report: Trump administration has rolled back U.S. anti-human trafficking efforts, firing or reassigning officials and canceling grants.
• Numbers segment:
  • 35% of U.S. adults approve of Kimmel’s suspension, 50% disapprove.
  • Kimmel's show aired 3,950 episodes, averaging 1.8M Q2 2025 viewers.
  • Only 24% of U.S. adults watch late-night shows monthly (higher among Democrats than Republicans).
• Positive Story: First swim race in the “cleaned up” Chicago River in nearly a century, raising money for ALS research.

Highlighted Quotes & Key Timestamps

• FCC Chairman Carr’s Threat:
  “We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to take action on Kimmel, or there is going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.”
  — John Lowell, quoting Carr, [08:09]

• Right-Wing Press Cheering the Suspension:
  “Congratulations to ABC for finally having the courage to do what had to be done.”
  — Donald Trump, [09:53]

• From the Left, Concerned about Censorship:
  “It’s called jawboning... That entity did so under duress from the government. This is censorship.”
  — Anthony L. Fisher, MSNBC, [16:28]

• Host’s Perspective on Free Speech:
  “A multi-billion-dollar company being brought to heel by the federal government is a terrifying development.”
  — Isaac Saul, [21:02]

• Historical Context Staff Dissent:
  “Past attacks on free speech are at least as chilling as the current moment, if not more so.”
  — Audrey Moorhead, [26:53]

Noteworthy Moments

• Ted Cruz, prominent Trump ally, publicly rebukes an “unbelievably dangerous” precedent of government threatening media:

  “If the government gets in the business of saying we don’t like what the media has to say… that will end up bad for conservatives.” (14:51)

• Saul’s reflection on the direction of U.S. discourse after Kirk’s assassination:

  “If you aren’t calling for or inciting violence, you don't have to defend the actions of other people. Both sides use extreme rhetoric that needs to be turned down.” (21:31)

• Trump, at Kirk’s memorial, unapologetically declines to forgive political enemies in contrast to Erica Kirk’s moving forgiveness.
  (25:58)

Conclusion

This Tangle episode offers a robust, balanced analysis of the Kimmel-ABC controversy, weaving together perspectives from across the spectrum, historical and legal context, and reflections on the evolving state of free speech. The focus is on government influence over media, the boundaries of corporate vs. state action, and how this controversy echoes or diverges from historical precedents.