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- [00:00]
Advertiser
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- [00:32]
Lemonada Media Host
48 million people in the United States are adolescents between the ages of 14 and 24. They're working, parenting, leading, sometimes all at once.
- [00:43]
Lemonada Media Guest
I'm balancing work and being a mom at the same time, and I'm still on track to graduate with my bachelor's next year.
- [00:51]
Lemonada Media Host
So what do today's young people need to truly thrive? Tune in to good things from Lemonada Media to hear the six part Thrive series.
- [01:00]
Advertiser
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Lemonada Media Host
This is Tangle.
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Isaac Saul
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about the Indiana state primaries, President Trump's little revenge tour against some GOP senators, state senators who refused to gerrymander in Indiana. We're gonna talk about exactly what happened, share some views from the left and the right, and then of course, my take, before you jump in, I wanna give you a quick heads up that our latest episode of Suspension of the Rules is out. It's up on YouTube. You can find us Tangle News on YouTube. Also, you can find the episode in this podcast feed. There was some discussion early on about whether Camille can pull off his glasses or not. New pair of glasses. Camille's rocking. So if you want to actually see the glasses, you're going to have to go to YouTube. And that's my plug for the YouTube channel. All right, with that, I'm going to send it over to John for today's main topic and I'll be back for my take.
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John Law
Thanks, Isaac. And welcome everybody. Here. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, the United States and Iran are reportedly nearing an agreement to end the war between the countries and set a framework for future discussions over Iran's nuclear program. The agreement reportedly includes a moratorium on Iran's nuclear enrichment, an end to US Sanctions and unrestricted transit through the Strait of Hormuz. Number two Federal Bureau of Investigation agents searched the office of Virginia State Senate President Pro Tempore L. Louise Lucas pursuant to a public corruption investigation. Another search warrant was executed at a cannabis store that Lucas co owns. Lucas, who has not been arrested or charged, said the search was in retaliation for her recent support of a new congressional map in Virginia designed to boost Democratic representation in the U.S. house. Three Republican state lawmakers in Tennessee proposed a new congressional map designed to flip the state's sole Democratic seat in the U.S. house. Number four, a federal judge rejected a request by Fulton County, Georgia to order the Justice Department to return ballots and digital ballot copies related to the 2020 election that were seized in January. The judge found that the county did not show the federal government lacked probable cause or conducted the search illegally. And number five, A suicide note allegedly written by convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was released on the order of a judge. The 2026 Indiana primary is making history, ousting more state Senate incumbents in one night than in the past quarter century combined. Most of the candidates had challengers endorsed by President Trump. President Trump and governor Mike Braun threatened to help primary Indiana Republicans who defeated Trump's redistricting plan last year. With Trump allies spending an unprecedented amount of money on these races and their efforts ultimately proved successful. On Tuesday, Indiana held primary elections for the 2026 midterms. The state Senate primaries were closely watched after President Donald Trump supported challenges against incumbent Republican state senators in response to their opposition to a mid decade redistricting plan. Last December, six Trump backed candidates defeated incumbent lawmakers, while another won an open primary seat. Only one incumbent opposed by the president, quote, Greg Good of Terre Haute, has won their election for context. In December 2025, following similar efforts in other states, President Trump publicly pushed Indiana Republicans to adopt a new congressional map designed to net the GOP additional seats in the U.S. house. The state Senate, which has a 4010 Republican majority, rejected the plan. Afterward, President Trump said he would support primary challenges to anti redistricting state senators and and outside groups such as Club for Growth Action and Turning Point Action invested significant resources in recruiting and supporting challengers. On Tuesday, President Trump affirmed his support for the primary challengers, writing on Truth Social Good luck to those great Indiana Senate candidates who are running against people who couldn't care less about our country or about keeping the majority in Congress. There are eight great patriots running against long seated Rhinos. State Senator Travis Holdman, the highest ranking Republican that opposed the redistricting effort, was among the incumbents defeated by a Trump. Furthermore, the results could imperil state Senate President Pro Temporary Roderick Bray's leadership position as the challengers are expected to vote to oust him if they win their general election races. Indiana has a large Republican voting majority and most if not all of the Republican candidates are expected to win in November. President Trump's allies in Indiana touted the outcome as a signal to the party about the President's enduring popularity. Everyone in Indiana politics should have learned an important lesson today. President Trump is the single most popular Republican among Hoosier voters. Senator Jim Banks, the Republican from Indiana, said, indiana is a conservative state and we deserve conservatives in our state Senate who have a pulse on Republican voters. State Senator Bray, an opponent of redistricting, noted the significant outside spending on the primary, saying, the amount of money that was spent in Indiana is material. It matters and that was very, very difficult to overcome. We worked really hard. Our candidates worked really hard to get their message out, but the voters spoke. State Senator Holdman told the Indianapolis Star, revenge and retribution is not a Christian value and that's what this was all about. Today we'll share commentary on the results from the right, left and Indiana writers and then Isaac's take.
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Isaac Saul
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [07:49]
Lemonada Media Host
48 million people in the United States are adolescents between the ages of 14 and 24. They're working, parenting, leading, sometimes all at once.
- [08:00]
Lemonada Media Guest
I'm balancing work and being a mom at the same time and I'm still on track to graduate with my bachelor's next year.
- [08:08]
Lemonada Media Host
So what do today's young people need to truly thrive? Tune in to good Things from Lemonada Media to hear the six part Thrive series.
- [08:25]
John Law
All right, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. Some on the right say the result hammers home what GOP voters really want from their representatives. Others suggest it could be a short lived victory for Trump and the party. In the Daily Caller, Mary Rooks said voters taught GOP leadership a valuable lesson. Indiana has nine House districts as a deep red state, allowing two Democratic Party controlled districts didn't align with the state's actual voters. Voters wanted the Indiana state legislature to redistrict the state from a 7.2Republican advantage to a 9.0GOP sweep, Rook wrote. There were eight state senators part of a larger group of 21 Republicans who voted against the redistricting bill and were up for reelection on Tuesday. Millions were reportedly spent on these races to unseat the defectors. Ultimately, six of the eight lost their races. Defeated incumbents are not wrong to claim that his and the other's losses were about revenge and retribution. That's exactly what happened here, and the broader GOP should take heed. Either use the power the voters gave you to enact their will and mandate, or sit back and watch the voters take you out one election at a time, rook said. The era for so called principal conservatism is over. Voters want elected officials to be fighting tooth and nail to get the wishes across the line, the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote about Trump's hollow Indiana victory. The media scorekeepers have declared that President Trump remains the king of the Republican Party. The more important question is whether his kingdom will shrink after November, the board said. The MAGA machine went all in and for what. Indiana's current US House districts are split 7 to 2, giving them 78% of the GOP. Mr. Trump carried only 59% of the state's vote in 2024. The map proposed last year aimed to turn Indiana into a 9.0state, but that wouldn't reflect Indiana, and a gain of two seats might get swamped by a blue wave. When the State Senate rejected redistricting 1931, more Republicans voted against than in favor. I was contacted by many, many, many constituents, senate President Pro Tem Roderick Bray later said. I would say that 10 were against it to every one that was for it. He also raised doubts about trying to stretch the GOP's finite voters to win all nine seats, the board wrote. We're after you, Mr. Bray, Trump wrote online in January. Like no one has ever come after you before. Mr. Bray isn't up for re election until 2028. But why is this GOP infighting a useful focus six months before November? Alright, that is it for what the right is saying. Which brings us to what the left is saying. The left frames the results as evidence of the GOP's subservience to Trump. Others say Trump reasserting his power could hurt the GOP in the midterms. In Ms. Now, Paul Waldman said the primary highlighted the rot within the gop, while Trump largely won these contests. Did replacing conservative Republicans with other conservative Republicans really help him or the gop? How these elections played out was evidence of the rot within the party and the lengths it will go to in satisfying every one of Trump's whims, no matter how self destructive, waldman wrote. All those targeted were to be clear Republicans who support a conservative agenda. But Trump wanted their heads, so his will had to be done whatever the cost. One might argue that investing millions of dollars in taking vengeance on the Indiana Republicans will have a deterrent effect. Like a mob boss, perhaps Trump wanted to punish those who stepped out of line so no one in his party would get any ideas about showing independence, waldman said. The problem, though, is that Trump will only be president for two and a half more years. He is almost certain to lose the House this November and perhaps the Senate as for the remainder of his presidency. Furthermore, the redistricting wars may be petering out. There are only so many seats even the most nakedly partisan state legislature can squeeze out of their maps in the New Republic, Perry Bacon explored the silver lining in the results. The good news is that the results of Indiana showed that the Republican Party is really a cult of Trump, so Republican candidates will be reluctant to distance themselves from an increasingly unpopular president and therefore might lose winnable races this November and in two years, bacon wrote. The bad news, though, is that the results in Indiana show that the Republican Party is a cult of Trump. So Supreme Court justices, governors, state legislatures, congresspeople, and even rank and file GOP voters will keep falling in line with the whims of our wannabe dictator. Trump just ended the careers of five politicians he probably hadn't heard of a year ago. I don't like the idea of party bosses, but what really discouraged me is being on the side of a party that doesn't have effective bosses against one that does. Bake it. There is a silver lining, though. Trump will be emboldened by the results in Indiana. He will keep making Republicans defend whatever he does, such as stuffing funding for the White House ballroom into a budget bill moving through Congress this week. And Trump's approval rating continues to sink, potentially plunging two post Katrina lows of George W. Bush at the end of his second term. Alright, that is it for what writers from the right and the left are saying. Which brings us to what Indiana writers are saying. Some Indiana writers expect both new state Senate leadership and a new congressional map. Others bemoan the outcome but acknowledge Trump's electoral sway. In the Indianapolis Star, Jacob Stewart said Trump's Senate win means redistricting is back in. Bray is out. While it's difficult to guess which senators would support Bray in a caucus, the 19 votes in favor of redistricting in December can serve as a decent proxy. Stewart wrote. If senators vote to oust Bray from his leadership position, they will likely replace him with Senator Chris Garten. Garten, unlike his colleague Senator Liz Brown, did not publicly criticize his colleagues for their votes against redistricting and has remained mostly behind the scenes during the primary campaign season. As a result, he maintained his leadership position and stands to gain support from both pro redistricting and anti redistricting senators. U.S. representative Marlin Stutzman suggested the General assembly would likely revisit the issue of redistricting at some point after the primaries were over. This would likely have to come after Bray's ousted, as Bray has significant control over what bills are even getting a hearing, stewart said. If senators vote the same way as they did in December, with the extra votes in favor, redistricting would just barely pass. If the vote is tied, Lt. Governor Micah Beckwith could still cast a tie breaking vote in favor of redistricting. Also in the Indianapolis Star, James Briggs wrote, sometimes you gotta hand it to Trump. Donald Trump is the most corrupt president in history. Every gas station sign you pass attests to the wreckage of his second term. But sometimes you gotta hand it to him. Trump is very, very good at politics, Briggs said Indiana's primaries were a referendum on Trumpism. Trumpism prevailed, simple as that. Even if you want to discount the results by attributing them to the unfathomable $13.5 million ad blitz that hit state Senate primaries, you have to acknowledge Trump is a singular figure who can make it rain on obscure state legislative elections because they happen to be important to him personally. Trump's endorsement in Indiana GOP primaries once again carried tremendous weight, backed by millions in outside spending from political action committees tied to allies including banks, briggs wrote. On top of that, Indiana Republicans might wind up redistricting Democrats into oblivion sooner or later. The U.S. supreme Court's weakening of the Voting Rights act is sparking another round of race to the bottom gerrymandering that will compel red and blue states to extend their partisan advantages further than ever. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take.
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Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. The lesson the right seems to have learned this week is that Trump understands what voters want. The India GOP didn't, and so they paid the price. In hot air, Ed Morrissey said the incumbents lost because they didn't bother to ask voters what they want. In PJ Media, Matt Margolis said there was nothing subtle about the message from MAGA voters. They want strong Republicans who will fight the Democrats, not be weak. Useful idiots for the left. Mary Rook in the Daily Caller under what the right is saying threaten the gop. Either use the power the voters gave you to enact their will and mandate or or sit back and watch the voters take you out one election at a time. There is plenty more where that came from, and each writer seemed to be insisting that Indiana's GOP leaders were ousted because they wouldn't be team players and redraw the state's map to help Trump win the national gerrymandering war he started in Texas. This theory has one problem though, that isn't what the Trump backed candidates actually ran on. The MAGA aligned state legislators who won their elections weren't running ads about how voters should elect them so they can redraw districts to max maximize as many Republican seats as possible. Shocking, I know. Instead the campaign focused more on a broader set of conservative principles like opposing gas taxes and transgender participation in sports, things the incumbents were not necessarily supporting. Let me put it in plain terms. Trump wanted Indiana Republicans to further gerrymander the state state Senate president pro temporary Roderick Bray understood this was bad, and early on in these gerrymander wars he refused, hoping some other states would follow him. Unfortunately, few did. Trump and his allies were infuriated by the perceived betrayal, so they dumped millions into otherwise small races to crush Bray's allies and oust him from his leadership role. $13.5 million was spent on state Senate primaries overall, a roughly 5,000% increase in spending from 2024, when a total of $250,000 were spent. In state Senator Jim Buck's race alone, $1.3 million was spent on ads opposing him, while his own just $150,000. How did they attack Buck? Did they go after him for not gerrymandering? Not quite. In just one example, the ads frame Buck as old, pathetic and liberal. Across the board, Trump's allies used the money to boost candidates opposition to trans participation in sports or taxes on gases. They won. And now Trump supporters are celebrating as if this is proof voters wanted more ferocious partisan loyalty, even more gerrymandering. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Does this show Trump still has influence in the Republican gop? Of course. I never really doubted he did. Does it mean the national GOP could increase spending in tiny state races by 5,000% and get the results it wants by attacking its own party members? Yes, it probably does. But did Indiana voters have some organic desire to oust their representatives for not backing Trump on his gerrymandering push. No, the worst effect of this outcome goes well beyond Indiana. Several states, including Alabama, Louisiana and South Carolina have upcoming primaries and are still considering gerrymanders. The message was sent to those state level legislators do as we say or face the consequences. And down the road, what's to stop Democratic leadership from trying this model out themselves? Infighting in the party is already common and I wouldn't be surprised if a future Democratic president or House leader adopts this strategy to keep state level representative in line or force more gerrymandering. So what do we get for the millions of dollars spent and the attention on this race? According to political analyst Ryan Graduski, as few as 22 House seats in the entire country could be competitive when this wave of redistricting is over. According to Graduski, if we take the numbers from 2024 as a starting point, that would mean about 7.6 million voters out of 149.5 million ballots cast are going to decide the composition of Congress. Just 5% of all American voters. This is the world decades of bipartisan gerrymandering have wrought, and it's the one President Trump is making worse right now. Voters are no longer choosing their politicians. Politicians are choosing their voters. I only maintain a few hopes for how we get out of this mess. One is that some charismatic, honorable, politically savvy leaders from both parties come together and mount a national campaign to treat the nationwide fever of gerrymandering. That seems sadly unlikely. Another is that a wave of grassroots bipartisan organizations start campaigning heavily against gerrymandering, standing up voter referendums for independent commissions, and tee us up for a sea change in 2030. This is possible, but it would require putting partisan point scoring aside. The third and perhaps most likely hope is that enough members of Congress watch as their seats get dissolved into these nationwide battles. Then everyone realizes this is a horrible way to run a country and a piss poor example of a functioning demise democracy. Basically, the self interested and self preserving opinion among politicians becomes not to gerrymander and we go back to a world where reasonable natural districts encompass a diverse set of voters whom Republicans and Democrats have to actually campaign to win over. I am obviously dispirited by all these developments, but I'm not hopeless either. Our country has gone through all manner of political movements and the future is often less predictable than we think. Just because we're headed this way now doesn't mean it's the only path forward. And the lesson from Indiana isn't that gerrymandering is inevitable. What it does mean is that we are reaching an inflection point. And what we can learn from the Indiana primaries is that enough people need to keep repeating the same points until it gets through to the population at large. And here is the point. We are no longer choosing our politicians, they are choosing us.
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Lemonada Media Guest
We.
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Isaac Saul
Until we make that an unacceptable arrangement, we'll be stuck in this spot for the future. We'll be right back after this quick break. Missed calls and slow follow ups are silent killers. That's how businesses leave money on the table without even realizing it. And that's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q U O. That's the business communication system built so you never miss a call. With Quo, your entire team can handle calls and texts from one shared number so you don't miss messages or drop conversations. Everyone sees the full thread, replies are faster, and customers actually feel taken care of. Quo has become the number one rated business phone system on G2, with over 3,000 reviews built for how modern teams work, and more than 90,000 businesses, from solo operators to growing teams, rely on it to stay connected, professional and consistently reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try quo for free plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com that's quo.com tangle that's quo.com tangle
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Lemonada Media Host
48 million people in the United States are adolescents between the ages of 14 and 24. They're working, parenting, leading, sometimes all at once.
- [23:48]
Lemonada Media Guest
I'm balancing work and being a mom at the same time, and I'm still on track to graduate with my bachelor's next year.
- [23:56]
Lemonada Media Host
So what do today's young people need to truly thrive? Tune in to good things from Lemonada Media to hear the six part Thrive series.
- [24:14]
Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for my take. Senior editor Will K. Back has a staff concurrence. He wants to expand on some points that he agrees with me on, so I'm going to pass it to Will really quick.
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Lemonada Media Guest
Thanks Isaac. I had a short concurrence to add to Isaac's take today, and here it is. On the point of lessons learned from these primary results, I would highlight another potential lesson for the November midterms. As GOP strategist Karl Rove and others have noted, the money spent on these races is money that Republicans won't have to help vulnerable Republicans in difficult House races this year. $13.5 million is a minor sum compared to the total funds that will undoubtedly flow into national RA this year, but it's representative of a president who often struggles to keep his eye on the ball and by proxy, a disorganized party. Trump absolutely achieved his goals in Indiana, but I suspect that Democrats have no problem with Republicans spending their time and money on state level intraparty disputes. All right, that's it for my concurrence. I'm going to hand it back over to Isaac for today's reader question.
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Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for my take and our staff concurrence, which brings us to your questions answered. This one is from Kelly in Park Ridge, Illinois. Kelly said with the news that the United states is withdrawing 5,000 troops from Germany, I'm curious, why do we have 5,000 troops in Germany to begin with? How many troops are in Allied countries and why and how much does this contribute to our military budget? Okay, great questions. So in total, roughly 170,000 active duty United States military personnel are stationed on military bases in allied countries all across the world, from Germany to South Korea to Australia to Peru. These bases serve an array of functions through their distance from the United States mainland. For instance, the US Space Force says the Buddhafique Space Force Base in Greenland supports missile warning, missile defense and space surveillance missions from the Solid State Phased Array Radar. In Germany, US Bases provide operational support for the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Somewhat ironically, considering the history, Germany is second only to Japan in hosting United States troops and military bases. Germany is a NATO ally located in the middle of Europe with accessibility to much of the continent as well as an aerial reach to Northern Africa and Eastern Asia and waterways that can reach the North, Baltic and Black Seas. Originally, the United States set up bases in West Germany after World War II to help with post war reconstruction and observe the check on the Soviet Union's operations. Today, the United States maintains 47 bases across the now unified country. All told, these bases host approximately 36,000 troops, not including their families and civilian support, and include some of the largest and most important foreign bases the military operates. Stuttgart holds 20,000Americans in total troops, family and support, and has been the home to the United States U.S. european Command since 1967. Ramstein Air Base, which is home to 54,000Americans, is the Air Force's base of operations for all of Europe and Africa. Estimates for the operation of foreign bases vary. According to Cato, a single United States military base costs 50 to $200 million a year to operate, or around 60 to $120 billion in total. As a conservative estimate, David Vine a professor at American University and one of the most vocal critics of these bases, estimates they cost more than $150 billion to operate annually. All right, that is it for your questions answered. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the podcast and I will see you guys tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace.
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John Law
Thanks, Isaac. Next up is our section the Road Not Taken. The option that continued to fall off the board for us this week was the war in Iran. Over the weekend, we strongly considered running an edition focused on the US Policy of assuring passage for ships transiting the Strait of Hormuz, but opted for the Spirit Airlines closure because we believed it had interesting nuances to unpack. On Tuesday, the status of the war was in flux amid reports of renewed peace talks, so we chose to cover the end of the Department of Homeland Security shutdown. The lack of developments and negotiations by Wednesday left the mail order mifepristone pause as our next option for today we were between peace talks in Iran and a larger update on the war and the Indiana State Senate primaries. We went with the latter for the electoral impact. We can sometimes be slow to larger important stories as we give them time to develop for the Iran war. We also wanted to make sure we did not overly focus on one narrative as we covered the story four separate times in April. Now that plenty of threads have developed in the war, we are expecting that it will receive a full newsletter edition early next week. And last but not least, our have a nice day story. Amid growing concerns over water insecurity in the American West, a productive development from the San Diego County Water Authority could be providing a roadmap for the future. The Carlsbad Desalination Plant. The plant is North America's largest desalination facility, and its output has been so successful that San Diego county dropped its reliance on outside water imports from 95% to just 10%. That drop in demand allowed Arizona and Nevada to meet their own needs, purchasing the county's Colorado river allocation in exchange for funds to help maintain the facility. This agreement could be a game changer for San Diego county and the entire Southwest because it creates the possibility of a new collaborative path for moving water where it's needed most, water Authority Board Chair Nick Serrano said. Good News Network has this story and there's a link in today's episode description alright everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to retangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership podcast membership or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. In this week's episode of Suspension of the Rules, Issac, Ari and Camille discuss today's newsletter, party primaries, Indiana and Gerrymander. Things also get heady as they discuss whether billionaires should exist and unpack a ChatGPT criticism of last Friday's edition on corruption and the Trump administration, which you'll read more about tomorrow. You can check out our latest episode on Apple Music, Spotify and many other podcast platforms. And if you want to feel like you're in the studio with the guys and see Camille's new glasses, you can head over to our YouTube channel to check out the full episode. I'll be back in your ears again on Monday. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have an absolutely terrific weekend, y'.
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Advertiser
All.
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John Law
Peace.
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Isaac Saul
Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our Executive producer is John Wall. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsey Knuth and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about tango and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@retangled.com.
- [31:31]
Lemonada Media Host
48 million people in the United States are adolescents between the ages of 14 and 24. They're working, parenting, leading, sometimes all at once.
- [31:43]
Lemonada Media Guest
I'm balancing work and being a mom at the same time, and I'm still on track to graduate with my bachelor's next year.
- [31:50]
Lemonada Media Host
So what do today's young people need to truly thrive? Tune in to good things from Lemonada Media to hear the six part Thrive series.
- [32:01]
Advertiser
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