Kristen (5:14)

Once again, the breaking news we are following for you this morning. With just hours to go in his term, President Biden issuing pardons or pre pardons I guess you could say, for General Mark Milley, Dr. Anthony Fauci and all Congress members and staff who served on the January 6th select committee. That includes witnesses who also testified against President Trump. Lawmakers on Capitol Hill reacting Senator Eric Schmidt saying this, the guy who claimed he would protect norms continues to bulldoze them and the Constitution until the bitter end.

Warby Parker (5:50)

Breaking news. Kristen, I believe you just received a text from the President himself with his reaction to President Biden's the president elect himself with a reaction to the Biden pardon.

Kristen (5:59)

I did. I just received a text from President Elect Donald Trump. He says this quote, it is disgraceful. Many are guilty of all caps, major crimes, djt. So this is coming in just right now. And it echoes some of the backlash that we are hearing from Republicans. Some of his Republican allies essentially saying these pardons by President Biden of the January 6th Committee, remember President Elect Trump told me when I interviewed him in December, they should all go to jail.

John Law (6:26)

During the final days of his presidency, former President Joe Biden issued several executive orders on major domestic and international issues. Additionally, he commuted the sentences of nearly 2,500 criminal defendants a single day record and and granted sweeping pardons to members of his family and other political figures. Biden's last actions prompted debate over his legacy and the limits of presidential power as President Donald Trump begins his second term. Perhaps most notably, Biden issued pardons for his family members and political figures in the final hours of his term. The family pardons were announced with minutes remaining. The former president justified the move as a preemptive measure against unrelenting attacks and threats targeting his family, which he said would not end after leaving office. None of the pardoned family members have been charged with any crimes, but President Trump and some congressional Republicans had vowed to go after Biden and his family during the presidential campaign. In December, Biden also issued a full and unconditional pardon of his son, Hunter, who had been convicted on felony gun charges and pleaded guilty to felony tax offenses. On Monday, Biden also pardoned others he said were likely to be subject to investigations during the Trump administration, Dr. Anthony Fauci, Gen. Mark A. Milley and members of the House January 6th Committee, its staff and police officers who testified before the committee. I believe in the rule of law, and I am optimistic that the strength of our legal institutions will ultimately prevail over politics, biden wrote in a statement. But these are exceptional circumstances and I cannot in good conscience do nothing. President Trump called the pardons unfortunate. In addition to these pardons, Biden commuted the life sentence of indigenous activist Leonard Peltier, who was convicted in 1977 for killing two Federal Bureau of Investigation agents in South Dakota. Peltier, 80, will spend the remainder of his life sentence in home confinement. Separately, Biden issued a slew of executive orders in his final weeks banning new oil and gas drilling in over 625 million acres of US coastal waters removing Cuba from a list of state sponsors of terrorism establishing new rules for how artificial intelligence chips and models can be shared with foreign countries canceling student loans for more than 150,000 borrowers and extending deportation protections for hundreds of thousands of people from Sudan, Ukraine, El Salvador and Venezuela. President Trump criticized these moves, suggesting he would reverse many of them once in office. On Monday, Trump rescinded 78 Biden era executive actions, including some from Biden's final weeks. Finally, Biden delivered a farewell address from the Oval Office last Wednesday, focusing much of the speech on the threat posed by a tech industrial complex and associated risks of budding oligarchy. Americans are being buried under an avalanche of misinformation and disinformation enabling the abuse of power, biden said. We must hold the social platforms accountable to protect our children, our families and our very democracy from the abuse of power. Today, we'll explore arguments about Biden's final actions as president with views from the left and the right, and then Managing editor Ari Weitzman will give his take.

Anker Soundcore (9:56)

We'll be right back after this quick break. Enjoy a brilliant Sleep experience with Soundcore from Anker Stressed out by your partner's snoring? Having trouble falling asleep? Waking up too easily? Suffering from poor quality sleep? Now put on Soundcore Sleep A20 earbuds. Experience unparalleled pressure free comfort perfect for side sleepers. Choose your favorite sound in your curated playlist. Feel your body getting lighter and lighter and enjoy a full night of peaceful sleep with the A20's long lasting battery. Then wake up feeling fresh with a personal built in alarm. Get the sleep you deserve with Soundcore Sleep A20 earbuds. Discover more on soundcore.coms o u N D C O R E Soundcore Use Code Sleep at Checkout to get $30 off S L E E P in all caps.

Warby Parker (10:50)

Bombas makes the most comfortable socks, underwear and T shirts.

John Law (10:54)

Bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes.

Warby Parker (10:58)

Sorry, do we legally have to say that?

John Law (11:01)

No, this is just how I talk. And I really love my Bombas.

Warby Parker (11:03)

They do feel that good. And they do good too. One item purchased equals one item donated.

John Law (11:08)

To feel good and do good, go to bombas.com acast and use code acast.

Ari Weitzman (11:13)

For 20% off your first purchase.

John Law (11:14)

That's B O M B A S.com acast and use code Acast at checkout. Alright, first, let's start with some agreement. The left and the right both criticize Biden's final pardons, arguing they set a poor precedent for the country. Writers on both sides also worry that the pardons will encourage further presidential abuses of power. Alright, let's move on to what the left is saying. The left is skeptical of Biden's final pardons, but many say we should heed the warning of his farewell address. Some worry that the pardons will neutralize Democrats credibility to oppose Trump's actions. Others say Trump's pardons for January 6th defendants are far more egregious. In the American Prospect, Harold Meyerson wrote about Biden's cautionary farewell. President Biden's closing act has seen a flurry of administrative rulings, executive orders, pardons and commutations. He's canceled more student debt loan, taken federal convicts off death row, subjected Ozempic and Wegovy to price negotiations with Medicare and declared the Equal Rights Amendment to be ratified, meyerson said. Few presidential closing acts, however, penetrate the nation's collective memory. The only two closings that even students of history remember, I suspect, are the farewell addresses of George Washington and Dwight Eisenhower, and only because of some warnings they sounded that occupied a couple of paragraphs within much larger texts. Biden's farewell address could well join that company. As with the goodbyes of George Washington and Ike, Joe's farewell will be remembered for its explicit warning about the growth of an American oligarchy, myerson wrote. Biden's warnings against the threat posed by great wealth, Eisenhower's warnings against the military industrial complex and the rise of the tech elite, and Washington's warnings against an intolerant factionalism and entanglements with foreign powers can all be literally and justly applied to Elon Musk. The nightmare oligarchy that descends on us today has been foreseen by America's leaders for a very long time. In Huffington Post, Paul Blumenthal and Igor Bobik said Joe Biden makes one last bad decision in issuing preemptive pardons for members of the January 6 committee, former military leaders and government officials and family members. Now ex President Joe Biden made one final terrible decision, blumenthal and Babak wrote. None of these people are under investigation for committing crimes, nor is there any evidence that they committed any crimes. These appear to be purely prophylactic pardons meant to protect these individuals from the threat of investigations launched by President Donald Trump, who had promised vengeance through investigation and prosecution against all of the pardoned individuals. Trump will no doubt use these pardons as justification to issue his own set of pardons to allies and cronies he considered at the end of his first term issuing preemptive pardons to lawmakers and others who helped him in his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. Now, with the blessing of the Supreme Court, with immunity from prosecution for official acts and Biden's precedent, Trump can order administration officials staff, Border Patrol or members of the military to break the law and receive a get out of jail free pardon. Biden left the Democrats to face the easy taunt of hypocrisy if they choose to protest. In New York magazine, Ed Kilgore argued the Biden and Trump pardons are not all the same. Biden pardoned people who, as far as we know, having committed crimes in this last minute wave, that is an earlier pardon for convicted felon hunter Biden is a different matter. Biden's list was comprised of people Trump targeted by name for investigation and prosecution during his 2024 campaign, Kilgore wrote. Meanwhile, Trump opened the prison doors and expunged the record for insurrectionists who, whatever you think of them and their actions, did enjoy due process in facing accountability for the events of January 6th. The 47th President may understandably rage that the 46th has kept him from embarking on the full vengeance tour he seemed to contemplate in calling for a special prosecutor to go after Biden and his family and in describing members of the January 6 investigative committee as traitors. But the idea that Biden's pardons were as audacious as Trump's is itself pretty audacious. Alright, that is it for what the left is saying. Which brings us to what the right is saying. The right is critical of Biden's final acts as president, particularly the last minute pardons and executive orders. Some say the pardons only make Biden and his family look more guilty. Others suggest both Biden and Trump have abandoned any pretense of executive restraint, the New York Post editorial board wrote. Joe Biden exits stage Ultra Left Joe Biden left office as he governed in a flurry of self serving political activity that helps his inner circle and harms the nation he swore to protect and defend. He yes, in this literal last hour of his presidency, Joe let brother Jim, sister in law Sarah, sister Valerie, brother in law John and brother Frank off the hook for any crimes they might have committed while working in the family influence peddling shop. The board said those thunderous warnings delivered by national Dems about Trump pardoning his family as he left office pure projection. In the weeks before leaving office, Biden executed an 11 hour student debt wipeout, a $4.28 billion handout to the affluent paid for by the poor. With an executive order sealing off millions of acres from exploration, he tried to make permanent his chokehold on American energy, a gift to his party's green New Deal wing at the expense of everyday Americans, the board wrote he commuted the prison sentences of killers and sex fiends to score points with the all laws are racist crowd, the victims families be damned. He let terrorists out of Gitmo, took Cuba off of a list of state sponsors of terror, and on and on and on. In the Hill, Jonathan Turley called the pardons the final corruption of Joe Biden. With record low polling and widely viewed as a failed president, Biden completed his one man race to the bottom of ethics by assuring preemptive pardons to members of his own family. Turley said the pardons were timed to guarantee that the media would not focus on yet another unethical act by this president. He need not have worried. For four years, the media worked tirelessly to deny or deflect the corruption scandal surrounding the Biden family. Once he was forced out of the presidential race, Biden was freed up to sign a pardon for any and all crimes committed over a 10 year period by his son. He insisted that he really hadn't been lying. He claimed that no ordinary person would have been tried for his son's crimes, turley wrote. However, the latest family pardon shatters even that rationalization. These Bidens are not even charged with any crimes, but Biden wanted to give them cover for any possible prosecution for anything. It was the ultimate sign of contempt for the intelligence of the American public and the integrity of his office. In the Washington Post, Jason Willock said Biden and Trump raced to the bottom on presidential pardons. The rationale for these all encompassing pardons is the fear that Trump's administration will seek retribution against political adversaries. That's a possibility, of course. Law enforcement independence from politics has always been a comforting myth because federal law enforcement is part of the executive branch that elected presidents control, and Trump seems less interested than most presidents in maintaining that myth, willock wrote. The specter that Trump would use executive power in an aggressively partisan way was thus a license for Biden to do the same. One possibility is that the abuse of the pardon power will lead to efforts to circumvent it. At the end of Trump's first term, reports circulated that he was considering preemptive pardons of the kind Biden just issued will. But the root of the problem isn't the scope of the pardon power. It's the collapse of restraint on the exercise of executive power in general. And as with all norm spirals, it's hard to predict what the next turn will bring. Alright, let's head over to Ari for his take.

Ari Weitzman (19:50)

Let's clear the air by acknowledging the obvious context Joe Biden is not President any longer Donald Trump is In his first day in office, Donald Trump issued a slew of executive orders that give us important clues about what we can expect from federal law enforcement and the Republican led Congress in the coming weeks. We'll give those actions their due coverage in a full newsletter tomorrow. We're also not reviewing Biden's full presidency today that's coming Friday. Today we're focusing on what the outgoing president did in his last days in office. Since it can be easy to overlook these big moves in the wake of a changing administration, Biden made several major moves prior to his exit, issuing executive orders ranging from the symbolic to the sweeping, before approving another round of mass commutations and issuing blanket pardons for some members of his administration and his family. Let's start with the executive orders. Loan Forgiveness First, Biden may not have achieved the large scale loan forgiveness he sought while in office, but forgiving the loans for 150,000 borrowers, many of whom had been defrauded, was another step in that direction for him. Personally, I think this more targeted approach is a much better strategy. It's less expensive, less regressive of a benefit, and focuses the relief on the people who need it the most. I wish he'd pursued this approach from the beginning. The rest of these actions were mostly toothless proclamations that Trump started to undo moments after settling into the OVO office. It was like spilling a glass of milk in front of a Zamboni. The immigration protections? They're already facing a tidal wave of executive actions. The Cuba reclassification's already been reversed and the jury protections have also been undone, though that decision will head to court and could prove much stickier. Meanwhile, declaring the Equal Rights Amendment to be law is a purely symbolic move made meaningless by the fact that he did it on his way out the door instead of any time over the last four years. As the Sacramento Bees Robin Epley put it, Biden should have declared it National Ice Cream Day while he was at it. As for the blanket pardons, I think there are two ways to look at them, and neither's pretty. First, you can look at the list of names and assume collusion. At a surface level, it's pretty easy to see General Mark Milley, Anthony Fauci, the nine members of the J6 Committee, those who testified before it, and five members of Biden's family are all pardoned for any nonviolent offense going back to 2014. What could Biden possibly be pardoning those people for doing while he was vice president during the Obama administration. Republicans have been wanting to investigate that whole list of people for years, and the sweeping pardon implies that they could have been onto something. Then there's the opposite viewpoint. Republicans have been wanting to investigate that whole list of people for years, yes, but purely for political reasons. And a sweeping pardon is the only way to prevent the inevitable witch hunt from coming. Why even wait to see what Trump's Justice Department might dig up to justify disrupting the lives of their avowed political enemies out of a need for vengeance, as Trump promised to do on the campaign trail? If you look past the surface level, it's easy to see that all of the names on Biden's pardon list are just the top names on the list of enemies from within, from the Republicans. So let's assume the best and say that this was just a defensive move, which, for the record, I think it was. Joe Biden probably did not treasonously collude with China or Ukraine to enrich his family through his son Hunter. Dr. Fauci probably didn't commit crimes in recommending strict fear federal vaccination policies or covering up the origins of COVID 19. And General Milley probably did not treasonously collude with Chinese officials. That's a far cry from saying any of those parties is above reproach. It's just to say that if there had been federal trials, I would bet money on all of them being exonerated. Even seeing all of that, these parnons are still a terrible last move for the Biden administration, not just because they close off a major pathway to determining whether wrongdoing occurred, but because they escalated the use of a new major weapon in the partisan arms race. Blanket pardons for everyone I know for as far back as I can justify these pardons add another link in the chain that's dragging our politics downward. Biden issues blanket pardons because Trump says he'll get retribution for being unfairly persecuted because Democrats opened investigations into him for trying to subvert an election, which came after years of Trump feeling aggrieved by claims of Russian collusion that did not hold up in court after Trump campaigned to lock up Hillary Clinton, who used a private email server, and on and on. You can blame any one of those people for their links in the chain, and you should absolutely, please do that. But none of the actions that preceded Biden's decision excuses it. In fact, it's a sterling illustration of unintended consequences on both sides of this action. On the front side, Trump winning an election and then investigating Biden was always going to be in play with Biden breaking precedent to look into Trump's alleged misconduct. We've been pretty on board with both the investigation into Trump and the investigation into Hunter Biden, with Isaac supporting and investigate the powerful ethic for all our government officials. However, Biden seems totally willing to make Trump and his associates prove their innocence in court, but unwilling to subject his to the same standard. But much more worrisome are the consequences on the backside. What's to stop Trump from issuing mass pardons for everyone in his administration before he leaves office? Why wouldn't high ranking Trump officials now feel emboldened to act with impunity, secure in the belief that Trump will cover their backs on his way out? For all the talk of Trump as a norm breaker, it's Biden who has opened the door to sweeping pardons for friends, family and allies. Now Trump just has to walk through it. No one summed this up better than Jason Willock, who we quoted under White the Right as saying he compared the new president of last minute pardons to the one Biden's Justice Department was arguing against Trump in the immunity case. As Will the DOJ warned of the presidential immunity case with reason that a Supreme Court ruling creating presidential immunity would make presidents more willing to push the boundaries of the law. Biden's pardons will now have the same effect, but on a larger scale, willock wrote. Now the President's political friends from the highest reaches of the Pentagon to congressional staff will know that they are eligible to be immunized for what ever they did in office before power changes hands. End quote. When Biden issued his first blanket 10 year pardon for a son hunter in December, we called it an astonishing and sweeping protection. Now Biden has issued about a dozen such pardons. As much as I nodded along when Jason Willock wrote that power is mostly cured by personal restraint, I just don't think a president should be able to wield this kind of clemency power. Pardons have their place, and Biden's commutations for 2,500 people convicted of nonviolent drug offenses is a far more defensible use of clemency. Much like Isaac, I'm very sympathetic to the idea that holding a person in prison for decades, especially for nonviolent crimes, is counterproductive both for them and society at large. But blanket pardons are something else altogether. It's a tool far too ripe for corruption to serve any value. And I hope some bold legislator takes up the cost to try to curtail that power as soon as possible. So for Biden, it's an irresponsible end to his term. And when you zoom out, the picture of our national politics in general is not a pretty sight. Retribution and protections all the way down with no end in sight.

Anker Soundcore (27:17)

We'll be right back after this quick break. Enjoy a brilliant Sleep experience with Soundcore from Anchorage Stressed out by your partner's snoring? Having trouble falling asleep? Waking up too easily? Suffering from poor quality sleep? Now put on Soundcore Sleep A20 earbuds. Experience unparalleled pressure free comfort perfect for side sleepers. Choose your favorite sound in your curated playlist. Feel your body getting lighter and lighter and enjoy a full night of peaceful sleep with the A20's long lasting battery. Then wake up feeling fresh with a purr personal built in alarm. Get the sleep you deserve with Soundcore Sleep A20 earbuds. Discover more on soundcore.coms o u N D C O R E Soundcore Use code sleep at Checkout to get $30 off S L E E P in.

Warby Parker (28:10)

All caps what makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost. Their designer quality frames start at $95 including prescription lenses plus scratch resistant, smudge resistant and anti reflective coatings and UV protection and free adjustments for life. To find your next pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact lenses, or to find the Warby Parker store nearest you, head over to warbyparker.com that's warbyparker.

Ari Weitzman (28:50)

Kerry from Minneapolis, Minnesota asked any chance you could tackle Musk's overt inadvertent Sieg Hale salute wave at the inauguration? I hope it's an enthusiastic but awkward guy celebrating. But does it matter if it was inadvertent? If people who want to believe it was a special message to them believe it was on purpose. Also, how could it really be inadvertent? For me, I'd file it under Musk is awkward, and I think that the naughtyism of the salute was inadvertent. Importantly, I don't just think Musk is awkward. I think he's consistently awkward to the point where it's almost hard to fathom. To the point where he could decide on the spur of the moment to mime taking his heart and throwing it to the crowd twice without reflecting on how the movement looked. And since we have so much footage of Elon Musk being a cringingly self conscious performer, I can't envision him planning to make a Naz salute without giving off a tell of some kind while he was speaking like some knowing smile or strange tic and then being able to execute that gesture perfectly right in the gray zone between intentional and deniable, to be reductive. It's far likelier to me that Musk continued to be awkward in that he became amazingly adroit for one moment. And yes, I know people will say but he's been a Nazi this whole time too. No he hasn't. He has not been a literal neo Nazi this whole time. Just some quick background about me. My cousin was killed by a literal neo Nazi in the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh in 2017. I've read deep into modern anti Semitism and neo Nazism since then, and I've gotten pretty good at separating the wink nudge dog whistles from the awkward waves. So is the Anti Defamation League who came out with a statement right after the Musk incident saying the same thing? I hope those opinions carry some weight now. Does it matter if it was inadvertent? Absolutely. Intent 100% matters and Neo Nazis are innately primed to interpret anything as a secret salute to their cause, so I don't really care what they think. For anyone else who interpreted the gesture as deliberate, I can totally understand where you're coming from. I'm just not convinced now. It's always possible I'm wrong about this. If Musk continues to make the gesture or express his support for neo Nazi white nationalist movements, I would change my stance. But I think it's just more likely he did something weird than he did something deeply malicious. All right, I'm going to kick it off to John for the rest of the podcast.

John Law (31:21)

Thanks, Ari. Here's your under the Radar story for today, folks. On Tuesday, the Food and Drug Administration approved the use of Spravato, a nasal spray for adults who have a major depressive disorder that is resistant to standard treatments. The spray, developed by Johnson and Johnson, was previously cleared for use alongside an oral antidepressant, but it now becomes the first ever stand alone therapy for treatment resistant depression. An estimated One third of U.S. adults with major depression have symptoms that don't respond to standard treatments, and some doctors say the nasal spray's approval will allow for greater flexibility in treating severe cases of depression. The active ingredient in the nasal spray is esketamine, which is derived from the hallucinogenic anesthetic ketamine, and the treatment is only approved for applications in medically controlled settings. CNBC has this story and there's a link in today's Episode Description all right, next up is our numbers section. The number of pardons and commutations, respectively, granted by former President Joe Biden between fiscal years 2021 and 2024 is 25 and 132. The number of pardons and commutations, respectively, granted by Biden on December 12, 2024 is 39 and 1,499, a single day record for commutations. The number of commutations granted By Biden on January 17, 2025 is 2,490, a single day record. The number of pardons and commutations, respectively, granted by President Donald Trump during his first term is 144 and 94. The approximate number of pardons and commutations, respectively, granted by Trump on his first day of his second term is 1,514. The percentage of Americans who say they strongly support presidential Pardon power is 51%, according to a December 2024 GZERO poll, and the percentage of Americans who say they somewhat support presidential pardon power is 38%. And last but not least, our have a nice day story Hurricane Helene wrecked homes, businesses and other structures across the South. In the wake of the devastation, North Carolina resident Jake Jarvis used his skills and resources to serve his community. Jarvis runs Precision Grading, a construction and demolition company. Since the hurricane, he's been performing much of his work pro bono, flattening formerly impassable roads, demolishing wrecked homes and building bridges. His efforts have been funded by donations and his personal savings. Steve Freeman, the fire department chief in Bat Cave, North Carolina described Jarvis as a godsend. Good News Network has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. Alright everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to readtangle.com and sign up for a membership. You can also go to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for a premium Podcast membership which gets you ad free daily podcasts, Friday editions, Sunday editions, interviews, bonus content and so much more. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Ari and the rest of the team, this is John Lall signing off. Have a great day y'all. Peace.

Anker Soundcore (34:37)

Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will K back Daily Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bova, who is also our Social Media Manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet75 and if you are Looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website@readtangle.com that's readtangle.com.

Warby Parker (35:14)

If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Not only will you find a great selection of frames, you'll also meet helpful advisors and friendly optometrists. Yep, many Warby Parker locations also offer eye exams. So the next time you need glasses, sunglasses, contact lenses or a new prescription, you know where to look. To find a Warby Parker store near you or to book an eye exam, head over to warbyparker.com retail Puka Bella.

John Law (35:46)

I'm sure you've noticed some changes. Who you talking to?

Ari Weitzman (35:49)

I'm just practicing for when I have to tell the dogs about the twins.

John Law (35:52)

You know, because be fine in the spacious third row seat. But the twins can sleep peacefully thanks to the rear manual sunshade. And what about the extra cargo space for strollers and dog beds? I guess you're right. Can we go to the hospital now? The contractions are getting closer. The three row Lexus TX because everyone should feel like the center of the universe experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer.