Tangle Podcast Episode Summary
Episode: Charlie Kirk's suspected shooter is apprehended
Host: Isaac Saul
Date: September 15, 2025
Podcast Description: Independent, non-partisan politics news with arguments from across the spectrum and interviews with political insiders.
Overview
This episode covers the latest updates in the investigation into the assassination of Charlie Kirk, discusses responses from across the political spectrum, and offers personal reflections on processing ongoing violent news. The episode also examines narratives forming around the suspect, reactions across left and right media, and the risks of political discourse hardening into suppression of free speech.
Main Theme
A thorough examination of the investigation and public reactions following the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. The episode assesses developing evidence about the suspect, unpacks partisan narratives, and reflects on how political violence and reactions to it threaten democracy and civil discourse.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Host’s Emotional and Societal Reflections ([02:50–06:47])
- Isaac Saul opens with a deeply personal reflection on the emotional toll of reporting and consuming constant violent, distressing news.
"We just see these images, and then it's like, something like Charlie Kirk. Just like watching this person get shot and killed. It's a lot. Frankly, I'm surprised, maybe a little worried, that more people aren't reacting the way that I am to just the accumulation of this kind of news." — Isaac Saul [03:39]
- He encourages listeners to seek sources of hope and positivity, referencing a personal essay on fatherhood and a related interview with a 16-year-old witness to the Kirk shooting.
2. Empathy and Humanity During Turbulence ([06:47–09:22])
- John Lal emphasizes community, the variety of emotional responses, and the imperative to be supportive and positive, especially in dark times.
“This community is proof of that, I think. As an update, I did get a lot of emails from everybody about advice for my friend who's getting married ... Growing this community in the newsletter and especially in the podcast is an important thing for all of us...” — John Lal [08:13]
- He poses a question to listeners: “In what way can you be a source of inspiration to others?”
3. Current Investigation Updates ([09:22–15:08])
- Authorities have apprehended a suspect in the Kirk assassination after a 33-hour manhunt.
- Suspect was identified after his family alerted police.
- Recovered bullet casings were inscribed with potentially political or meme-based messages like “hey Fascist Catch”.
- Investigators reviewed Discord messages, found the suspect’s DNA at the scene, and discovered a note indicating intent.
- The suspect’s roommate (a transgender individual) cooperated with authorities; officials are investigating potential group affiliations.
- Tangle maintains a policy of not naming suspects to avoid the 'contagion effect.'
- There is confusion regarding the suspect’s ideology and motivation; evidence includes both leftist and possibly alt-right connections.
- Debates rage over Kirk’s legacy and the motives behind his assassination.
4. Reactions Across the Political Spectrum ([17:00–25:11])
What the Left is Saying
- Narrative Misfires: Many on the left assert that the suspect’s emerging profile contradicts right-wing assumptions about the shooter’s motives.
“The grotesque prejudgment has fallen flat and the actual suspect in no way fits the right's cynical political narrative." — Rex Hubke, USA Today [17:56]
- Internet Culture's Role: Observers note the increasingly ironic and chaotic online milieu, complicating the search for clear-cut motivations.
“The only thing that can be said conclusively about the suspect at this moment is that he was a chronically online white American male ... probably possesses a mishmash of ideological stances.” — Nathan Taylor Pemberton, NYT [19:27]
- Warnings Against Authoritarian Responses: Some caution that using the assassination as a pretext for suppressing free speech is itself dangerous.
What the Right is Saying
- Blame and Radicalization: Several voices attribute the shooting to anti-conservative rhetoric and see it as part of a pattern of leftist-encouraged violence.
"The penchant for calling Trump the devil incarnate has put a target on his back and given would-be assassins a license to kill him and others in his circle.” — Michael Goodwin, NY Post [21:08]
- Double Standards: The right highlights what it sees as societal and media inconsistency in responses to violence against conservatives.
"But time and time again when someone on the left acts out violently, the progressive American press, Democrats, the cultural elite and Hollywood always find an excuse to say it was not them.” — Eric Erickson, Daily Signal [22:07]
- Defending Free Speech: Some caution against efforts to punish those who speak critically of Kirk, arguing this would betray his legacy.
"The way to honor Charlie Kirk's life and legacy is not with hypocrisy and intolerance ... Kirk wanted unfettered debate." — Jonathan Turley, Fox News [23:03]
5. Isaac’s Take: Critique of Reactions and Call for Empathy ([25:11–33:27])
- Motive Still Unclear: Saul urges caution, noting that while initial evidence points toward political motives, strong claims about the suspect’s ideology remain premature.
“Right now, though, we just don't have that much information.” — Isaac Saul [25:58]
- Political Exploitation and Dangers to Free Speech: He warns that the right, particularly President Trump, is exploiting the assassination, framing it as a uniquely leftist crime and promising broad crackdowns.
“This is a wide net to cast that telegraphs the President's intention to coalesce more power and suppress more speech ... rather than turn the temperature down.” — Isaac Saul [28:39]
- Internet Amplification of Extremes: Saul reiterates that extreme, abhorrent reactions online are rare, but that social media amplifies their impact and distorts public perception.
- Call for Empathy: Saul stresses the need for both sides to humanize opponents, reject demonization, and focus on bridge-building.
"We need to endorse and promote speech, even if it is uncomfortable or confrontational. And we must ensure more Americans who hate each other's politics can actually get to know each other and find ways to connect on a human level." — Isaac Saul [31:10]
- Recognition of Positive Leadership: Saul acknowledges constructive, de-escalatory rhetoric from some GOP and Democratic leaders, contrasting it with inflammatory calls to action.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “We just see these images, and then it's like, something like Charlie Kirk. Just like watching this person get shot and killed. It's a lot.” — Isaac Saul [03:39]
- “What is a way that you can or have been a source of inspiration to somebody? ... It’s definitely never too late.” — John Lal [08:34]
- "Shell casings recovered by authorities were engraved with references to Internet memes and online gaming.” — John Lal [11:54]
- "The grotesque prejudgment has fallen flat and the actual suspect in no way fits the right's cynical political narrative." — Rex Hubke, USA Today [17:56]
- "The penchant for calling Trump the devil incarnate has put a target on his back and given would be assassins a license to kill him and others in his circle." — Michael Goodwin, NY Post [21:08]
- “We need to endorse and promote speech, even if it is uncomfortable or confrontational... connect on a human level.” — Isaac Saul [31:10]
Important Timestamps
- [02:50] — Isaac Saul’s emotional reflections and personal introduction
- [06:47] — John Lal’s commentary on community, inspiration, and emotional diversity
- [09:22] — Investigation update: suspect profile, evidence, and evolving motives
- [17:00] — What the left is saying
- [21:08] — What the right is saying
- [25:11] — Isaac’s analysis and personal take
- [33:27] — Transition to audience Q&A and closing segments
Additional Segments
- Q&A: Isaac answers a listener’s question about affordable housing solutions, proposing zoning reform and taxing second homes to increase supply ([34:34]).
- Under-the-Radar Story: National Assessment of Education Progress shows continued declines in U.S. high school math/reading since COVID-19 ([36:47]).
- Numbers: Rapid response to Kirk’s assassination, number of leads, and public polling on expectations of future political violence.
Tone & Style
- Deeply empathetic, contemplative, and human-centered.
- Non-partisan presentation of arguments with self-critical reflection.
- Urges caution, critical thinking, and personal growth amid partisan divides.
Takeaways for Listeners
- The investigation into Charlie Kirk’s killing is ongoing; motives and affiliations of the suspect remain blurred by both false leads and the complexities of internet culture.
- Both the left and the right are using the tragedy to reinforce established narratives, risking further polarization and suppression of dissent.
- The greatest threat may not be the violence itself, but the temptation by political powers to curtail rights and escalate rhetoric in its wake.
- Personal empathy and bridge-building remain vital antidotes to politicized hate and violence.