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- [00:00]
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- [00:29]
Audrey Moorhead
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- [00:38]
Audrey Moorhead
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- [00:58]
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every Home we all belong outside. We are drawn to nature. It calls to us. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives richer, calmer, and frankly, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby or trails worth traveling to and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Whether you're looking for a laid back walk with family or something more adventurous to get your heart pumping, Alltrails gives you the tools you need to get out there and find your outside. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails. From executive producer Isaac Saul. This is Tangle.
- [02:20]
Isaac Saul
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul. It is Wednesday, July 22nd. All I can think about is an excuse to drive my newly purchased Chevy Colorado pickup truck. That's literally it. I have a new well, it's not new. It's a used car. I bought a used pickup truck and I love it. I love it so much already. So if you have any errands you need to run, like groceries, moving laundry, you're stuck somewhere at the top of a muddy hill off road, just drop me a line. I will treat any excuse to climb in, roll the windows down, rumble down the street as a blessing. Thank you. Anyway, I'm actually stuck at my desk today recording this podcast writing for all you fine beautiful people. And it's time to discuss Darlene Graham's decision to run for her brother's Senate seat. This is a story that I think should be way more controversial than it seems to be. This morning it was not an emotionally charged topic for me and then I spent all morning arguing with the Tangle team about this topic and now I'm emotionally charged about it. Also, we have on the podcast today a deep dive history look at family members replacing elected officials. Also, I want to give you a nudge to go to our YouTube channel, Tangle News on YouTube, if you haven't yet to check out our latest video on Alaska's novel election system, the top four primary and ranked choice voting system that they use in the general election. We did a really cool video about this. I know it sounds maybe like a boring topic unless you're an election nerd, but we sent a team to Alaska to talk with proponents of the system and hear about the way it's changing Alaska politics and also just capture this crazy big divisive thing that is happening at the state level and what we found I think might surprise you. So go to YouTube tangle news, check out the video shout out to John Law and Will K. Back who took the trip to Alaska and recorded and produced this video. It's really, really good.
- [04:41]
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All right.
- [04:42]
Isaac Saul
With that, I'm going to send it over to Audrey Moorhead, who is recording today's main topic and what the left and the right are saying. And I'll be back for my take.
- [04:57]
Audrey Moorhead
Thanks, Isaac. First up, we have today's quick hits. Number one, New Jersey Governor Mikey Sherrill, a Democrat, said that an error in the state's Motor Vehicle commission system between June 2023 and June 2024 led to approximately 6,600 non citizens being registered to vote. Sherrill claimed that fewer than 400 of those erroneously registered had subsequently voted and did not impact any election outcomes, but ordered an investigation into the error. Number two, President Donald Trump approved a civilian nuclear development agreement with Saudi Arabia. American companies are expected to play a leading role in establishing the program. 3. New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani, a Democrat, said the city does not have the independent legal authority to arrest Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu days after saying his administration was exploring the possibility of executing an arrest warrant from the International Criminal Court for the Israeli leader if he visited the city. Number four Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair Dan Kaine testified before the Senate Appropriations Committee requesting a roughly $80 billion emergency funding package to support military operations in Iran. Hegseth said the estimated cost of the conflict is $37.5 billion to date. Number five French lawmakers passed a ban on social media access for children under 15, the first such ban in the European Union.
- [06:28]
Isaac Saul
Lindsey Graham, former senator, late senator from South Carolina his sister Darlene says she's now going to run for the Senate seat. Full she's currently serving in that seat, as you well know, an interim basis following Graham's death from a heart ailment. President Trump already weighed in on this, endorsed her in the special election, but that doesn't mean others in South Carolina Republicans are not interested.
- [06:53]
Audrey Moorhead
On Monday, Senator Darlene Graham, a Republican from South Carolina, said she will run for a full six year term to succeed her brother, Senator Lindsey Graham, who passed away suddenly on July 11 after suffering an aortic dissection. Republicans will hold a special primary on August 11th to select a new candidate to run against physician Annie Andrews, a Democrat, in the general election. For some more context, South Carolina's Republican Governor Henry McMaster appointed Darlene Graham to serve out the final months of her brother's term shortly after his passing. President Donald Trump recommended the appointment and has expressed support for Graham's full term candidacy. Several other Republican candidates are expected to run in the August primary. If no candidate receives more than 50% of the vote, a top two runoff will be held on August 25th. Darlene Graham has not previously held elected office. In her career, she has worked in roles with Clemson University, the South Carolina Department of Employment and Workforce and the South Carolina Department of Vocational Rehabilitation. Currently, she's serving on the state's Workforce Development Board and is president elect of the National Council of State Agencies for the Blind. In her announcement of her full term Senate bid, Graham said that she wants to step in and carry on her brother's legacy, adding that she feels an inner peace about her decision. She said she plans to focus her platform on domestic issues, in contrast to her brother, who was an influential voice on foreign policy throughout his career. However, Graham has said that she also views national security and border control as important issues. Representative Russell Fry, Representative Ralph Norman and businessman Mark lynch are among the Republicans who have announced they will run for the nomination. While former Governor Mark Sanford and Lt. Governor Pam Evatt have also signaled interest, Most candidates have sought to align themselves with the president despite his endorsement of Graham, with Representative Norman saying the endorsement helps a great deal, but the nomination is up to the people. Today you'll hear perspectives from the right and left on Graham's candidacy. Then I'll pass it off to Executive Editor Isaac Saul for his take.
- [08:57]
Isaac Saul
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- [11:31]
Audrey Moorhead
First up, what the Right is saying Many on the right say Graham is an unknown quantity, but advise against rushing to judgment. Some wonder why Trump is backing Graham. Others criticize members of the media for their response to her appointment. In the Washington Examiner, Byron York described the unknown Darlene Graham Graham's campaign announcement was all very exciting, but then people began to ask why? What do we really know about Darlene Graham? Yes, she was Lindsey Graham's beloved sister, but what are her positions on the zillions of issues and questions she would face as a US Senator? Graham gave an initial hint when she discussed her brother in an interview with Fox News. Sean Hannity saying, protecting our border as national security is absolutely important, but talk about also what matters to the average person. With that brief statement, Interim Senator Darlene Graham made clear she would be a much different lawmaker from Senator Lindsey Graham. The important part here is that Darlene Graham's views on so many issues, as well as her qualifications to serve in the Senate, are just not known. An adversarial campaign is still the best way for voters to learn about a candidate. It seems unlikely that will happen this summer in South Carolina. So if that is the case, how will voters learn enough to make the best possible decision? In the Dispatch, Nick Katoggio asked, why are the president and his party lining up behind Lindsey's sister? It's strange that Donald Trump and his party are so keen to have her in the seat. It's strange that Graham is eager to compete for it. And it's strange that Republican voters will likely end up rubber stamping the Beltway approved sister of a politician who many of them long disdained as a rhino. If Darlene Graham governs as a centrist, she'll be more vilified by South Carolina's Republican base than Lindsay was. If, on the other hand, she intends to be a rubber stamp for the president on legislation which would be in keeping with her brother's legacy, then how is she planning to do some good with her new power? As for the rubber stamp effect, literally any Republican who's elected to the seat will be a dutiful stooge who follows the president's lead unless he or she is willing to be ousted after one term. So if Darlene Graham ends up winning a six year term, it won't bother me in a legislature that is about to make one of the President's most sinister henchmen Attorney General and defund a war that it was never asked to authorize, all because he says so. Who cares about who the members are anymore? A Congress of horses couldn't do any worse. In the Daily Wire, Nicholas Fondacaro criticized the View for going all in against Lindsey Graham's sister. When your goal is to keep your audience whipped up into a perpetual state of outrage and fear, you treat the mundane and the routine as an egregious breach of norms with questionable legality. That's exactly what happened on ABC's bonafide news program the View this week when Joy Baier and Sunny Hostin clutched their pearls over Darlene Graham getting appointed as a South Carolina senator following the death of her brother Lindsey Graham. Ignoring how it's been common practice by both parties for decades to have relatives appointed to their loved one's seat upon their death, Bayer and Hostin suggested Republicans were being hypocritical and equated Graham to a DEI higher benefiting from nepotism. Ultimately, Bayer and Hostin were more interested in stoking fear and outrage among their audience than in ensuring that the citizens of South Carolina were properly represented. Next up, what the left is saying Many on the left say that the GOP primary could quickly get messy. Some note that whoever wins the nomination will be a staunch Trump ally. Others say Graham can offer stability while making history. In New York magazine, Ed Kilgore argued, darlene Graham isn't scaring off rivals as Trump hoped. One of the crosses Donald Trump has had to bear recently is a less than perfect record in endorsing Republican primary candidates, his choices in high profile gubernatorial nominating contests in Iowa and Georgia both lost to rivals who claimed to adore the 47th president, despite their manifest willingness to rebel against his wishes. And now Trump is having fresh endorsement obedience problems in the Palmetto State, where absolutely every Republican pledges allegiance to him incessantly. It turned out Graham's Trump blessed march to nearly seven years in the US Senate pretty good for someone who had never run for office wasn't a cakewalk after all. It was perhaps not so surprising that lame duck Congressman Ralph Norman jumped into the race before Trump's endorsement and then didn't jump out. The contest could easily extend to an Aug. 25 runoff if nobody wins a majority on Aug. 11 the days and weeks ahead may be painful for White House political advisors whose lives could take a turn for the worse if Trump flubs another endorsement. In Bloomberg, Jonathan Tamari said Graham's possible election gives Trump another chance to shape the Senate Donald Trump is getting another chance to put his imprint on the Senate. Darlene Graham, appointed last week to replace her brother and close Trump ally the late Senator Lindsey Graham, announced Monday she'll run for a full six year term in South Carolina after the president encouraged her to do so. She has competition. Representatives Russell Fry and Ralph Norman also plan to seek the Republican nomination. Fry, who arrived in Congress by defeating a Republican who voted to impeach Trump in 2021, hammered that point home in announcing his Senate run. South Carolina doesn't need just another senator. It needs President Trump's strongest ally, fry posted on X. Norman, meanwhile, enters with endorsements from two of the Senate's most Trump aligned figures, Rick Scott and Mike Lee. No matter who wins, one result is certain the Senate GOP is going to get even more Trumpy. The near certain outcome is that the president and GOP voters will keep chipping away at the one piece of the party that arguably has the most remaining ties to old guard Republican ideology. In the 19th, Sarah Lutterman wrote Graham's career centered disability. Now she could help shape national policy. Darlene Graham has worked in vocational rehabilitation, publicly funded programs that help people with disabilities overcome barriers to employment. To former colleagues and the disability advocates who have worked with her, there is little doubt in Darlene Graham's capabilities. They describe the 62 year old as a dedicated civil servant who is uninterested in the spotlight and deeply knowledgeable about issues facing the disability community. And they are optimistic she will bring that experience to Capitol Hill. This is a very political moment for disability rights advocates. Massive cuts to Medicaid from the One Big Beautiful Bill act, which Lindsey Graham supported, threatened disability services in many states. The Trump administration has also moved to dismantle the Department of Education and transfer oversight of Special Education Services to the Department of Health and Human Services, a shift that many experts believe will put students with disabilities at risk. David Huck, who has worked closely with South Carolina's Commission for the Blind, has nothing but praise for Graham's career, which from Huck's perspective, gives her knowledge and connections that will serve his community well. That's it for what the right and left are saying now. I'll pass it off to Isaac for his take.
- [18:27]
Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying which brings us. To my take, I am genuinely shocked at how normal everyone seems to think this very abnormal thing is. Darlene Graham is the first person to ever succeed their deceased sibling in the Senate, and now she's using that temporary appointments momentum to campaign for a six year Senate term fully backed by the President of the United States. Of course, spouses have been temporarily appointed to their deceased partner seats before, but as I argued last week, that should be viewed as an equally absurd and outdated practice, even without the novelty of the seat going to a sibling. The most popularly accepted example of this outside of politics is probably a family member taking over a business from a deceased relative. But in those examples, the story almost always involves some kind of planned succession. A son is being raised to take over his dad's firm, or a wife knows the wish of her deceased husband was for her to take his position when he died. If I were to die, I suppose my wife would immediately inherit ownership of Tangle, but my wishes wouldn't be to task her with running Tangle. And no offense, Phoebe, she wouldn't be very good at it because it's not her line of work. In this case, we have none of the above. Graham's death was a shock and his sister was never prepared in any way to fill his seat, but we have no idea if that is even what he would have wanted. Somehow I feel like this perspective has put me on an island. Nearly all the commentators above are arguing about her qualifications, whether someone should have the seat, or whether she'll be a fair representative of her brother's views. But what about the fundamental practice of a system that allows a state governor to pick any person they want to replace a US Senator and how often that system produces a family member? That, to me, feels like the actual paradigm we need to discuss and shift to shift the Overton Window. It might be worth imagining how genuinely crazy you'd feel if you showed up for surgery and found out your doctor had died. But don't worry, their sister replaced him. Or alternatively, you dropped your kid off at school only to learn that their teacher had passed away, but the principal called up the teacher's sister who had no experience teaching, to fill in for the job. Or to reverse the previous example, if you showed up for court as a client of my wife's and were then told I was going to be your lawyer for the day. Maybe this isn't quite as extreme as these examples, but to me it's not far off. It's not as if we don't have alternatives. An obvious one is that Graham's seat just stays vacant until a special election takes place. Politically, this would be a bad break for Republicans, but there is plenty of precedent. Supreme Court justices are not simply anointed when one dies. They have to go through the normal process of a Senate appointment. In this case, the analogous process is an election. Alternatively, if we want to hold on to gubernatorial appointments, we could institute rules. Perhaps the appointee has to be an elected official in the state where they are taking the Senate seat. In this case, a member of the House of Representatives in South Carolina or a sitting state representative would do just fine. At least then we'd have an elected official chosen by the people. Replacing an elected official or maybe accepting an appointment means you don't get to run in the special or upcoming election, thus ensuring the appointed official doesn't gain an unfair advantage over the field. On last week's suspension of the rules, podcast editor at large Camille Fosser and Senior editor Will Kbach both essentially shrugged at the idea that Graham was tapped to take her brother's spot in the Senate. I expressed shock that nobody was shocked. I may have even cursed the bit or suggested it was insane. In a team discussion about this topic, Associate Editor Audrey Moore had empathized with my discomfort, but said she couldn't find a solid principle guiding her to oppose Graham's run. My principle is anti nepotism. Nepotism is the unfair practice of using power or influence to grant jobs, promotions, or other advantages to family members or close friends, regardless of their qualifications. I have a hard time imagining a better example than helping shoehorn in the sister of a deceased senator to the most powerful deliberative body in the country. We could even take a more recent example. When President Biden dropped out, I begrudgingly acknowledged that tapping Harris was the democratic thing to do, but only because she was already second in line to the presidency and had won the 2020 election as the vice presidential candidate on the ticket. Yet even then I called for an open convention to replace him. In this case, Darlene Graham wasn't democratically in line for anything, nor has she ever won a public election. We simply have the will of the president and a governor getting to pick who takes a Senate seat and then doing the most nepotistic thing possible. The best argument that I can think of, which Will made on our show last week, is that Lindsey Graham was tapped by the voters and the most democr outcome in response to his death would be to replace someone who is effectively a proxy for his vote. It's what justified widow succession all those years. And from that angle, Darlene Graham would seem like a safe bet. I think that is a good argument and I understand it. But the fundamentals have changed since last week. First, Graham is now going to get a massive leg up and earn media as a sitting Senator. She'll also have access to the president, Senate briefings, chances to vote on legislation to bolster her campaign, party fundraisers, and many of of the insider advantages that come with even brief incumbency. Second, it turns out Darlene may not be much like her brother after all. Lindsay prioritized foreign policy and American strength abroad, and from the limited statements Darlene has made about her views, she would not. And third, an argument that was just as true last week as it is this week. Darlene Graham is not the only person who could function as a proxy for her brother's vote. There are doubtless dozens of other South Carolina Republicans who would be aligned with Lindsey Graham 99% of the time. As Nick Cattaggio put it under what the Right Is Saying, literally any Republican who's elected to the seat would be a dutiful stooge who follows the President's lead unless he or she is willing to be ousted after one term. The difference at least, is those Republicans would have actual experience working in the government. In the next few months, the Senate is likely to vote on wartime issues, hundreds of billions of dollars of Pentagon funding, a massive reconciliation bill, and maybe even an immigration bill. If two weeks ago I had suggested to you that Lindsey Graham's sister should get a vote on those issues, you would have looked at me like I had seven heads. Senator Graham's death is not a great reason to view that prospect as any less absurd. Last week, I myself made some arguments in favor of Graham's appointment that I now regret. I said it was a green flag that she didn't seem to want the job and was having a totally normal response to her brother's death. I described her as a seemingly nice person who did amazing work helping people with disabilities get jobs and even acknowledged the argument that members of Congress used to be more normie Americans. Given that the job has become overly represented by highly educated lawyer types in the modern era, maybe Graham would be a nice respite from that. But now she does want the job, making the prospect of her getting it much more alarming given how little we know about her views and qualifications and how undemocratic it is for her to have such a huge advantage over the other people throwing their hat into the ring for her brother's seat. But despite my initial instinct that she'd have a cakewalk to the Senate, none of this is a foregone conclusion. It turns out some people in South Carolina aren't so keen to throw their hands up and bend the knee to Trump or the Graham family. She'll have to defeat several staunch Trump and Graham allies in the primary, people with actual governing experience for voters to look at and consider. While all of them are running as MAGA aligned candidates, none are just accepting Graham as the foregone successor to her brother, despite the fact she has the president's backing. In POLITICO's words, there is a power struggle brewing and Trump may not win. I'm not sure who will come out on top in the South Carolina primary, but Darlene Graham now looks like the odds on favorite. Perhaps she falters under the limelight, but if she does, she'll have fumbled a huge advantage. I am sure of this, though I hope she doesn't prevail. It's a bizarre, unfortunate and wholly unfair institutional practice to allow governors to appoint the husbands, wives or siblings of a deceased or otherwise incapacitated member of Congress to take their jobs, a practice we should uniformly recognize as archaic and often pudding. If Darlene Graham had spent her life apprenticing under her brother to become a senator, or working in the South Carolina House, or even aspiring to understand how the government works, maybe I'd feel differently. Yet until a few days ago, it seemed she had never even conceived of doing this job. This entire situation strikes me as an odd societal quirk, some relic of the past that we should view as more akin to Mafia behavior than some kind of prince to king narrative arc. Hopefully voters in South Carolina will agree. All right, that is it for my take. Our Managing editor Ari Weitzman and Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead have a staff dissent that they are writing concurrently today. So I'm going to hand it over to them and then back to Audrey for the rest of the pod. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [28:15]
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- [28:51]
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- [29:30]
Audrey Moorhead
Thanks Isaac. This is Audrey. I'm back with a staff dissent on behalf of myself and Managing editor Ari Weitzman to distill Isaac's argument down to what we see as its essence A politician's sibling running for election is not an issue. A random person being appointed to finish a term isn't an issue. But the intersection of both is an archaic practice that allows for nepotism that we'd reject anywhere else. We think that's a cogent position, but we also think Isaac wrongfoots himself several times trying to take those issues on separately. In leveling criticisms of inexperience and unpreparedness, we believe Isaac is unevenly applying a principle to this situation in an era when a lot of inexperienced people are winning elections for the House, Senate, and even the presidency. Yes, Isaac has consistently weighted experience when reviewing candidates, but not with nearly the level of vigor with which he's treating Darlene Graham's apolitical career. It seems like the added fact that Darlene was Lindsay's sister matters here a great deal, but familial proxies and temporary assignments actually doesn't seem like an enormous issue to us. Next of kin Inheritance is already a standard for sole proprietorships in estates areas where a person's judgment is expected to be exercised by the appointee. Applying that to elected positions is not as bizarre as Isaac is treating it. Second, a lot of Isaac's vitriol was directed at the fact that Darlene decided to run after being appointed. His grievance about people who seek power being ones who are worthy of the most scrutiny is well founded, but that's a principle inherent with any person running for office. Again, using that as a line of argument specific to this case creates some cognitive dissonance. Ultimately, we actually favor the solutions Isaac proposed in his take. We can limit the pool of candidates for gubernatorial appointments, or the way those appointments can carry out their terms, but we oppose the way he constructed his argument on principle. That's it for our dissent. Next up, a deeper look. Today we have a deeper look into the history of widows succession. Family members have replaced deceased elected officials many times in US history. In fact, in the early 20th century, widow succession was the practice by which many women entered Congress. The first widow to succeed her husband in the federal government was Mayella Nolan, who ran for her late husband's house seat representing California's 5th district in 1923. The first woman to win a Senate election was also a widow successor. In late 1931, Arkansas Senator Thaddeus Horatius Carraway died and his wife, Hattie Wyatt Carraway was appointed to fill his seat until a special election for the remainder of his term could be held in January 1932. Caraway won that special election, becoming the first woman ever elected to the Senate. Later that year, Wyatt Carraway surprised many by running for a full term in the Senate. She secured victory with the help of Louisiana Senator Huey Long on the campaign trail, and Carraway would go on to win one more term before losing her party's nomination in 1944. In total, 48 women, eight senators, and 40 representatives have succeeded their husbands in Congress. While the practice has become rarer in recent years, for much of the 20th century it was the easiest way for women to gain footholds in politics. Last up we have our have a nice day story. After 15 year old Delhi resident Parth's parents were in a motorcycle accident caused by an unseen pothole, he knew he had to do something about his city's poor road conditions. Parth used his budding skills in computer science and artificial intelligence to build an app that allows citizens to report potholes to the government, using AI to flag legitimate submissions for quicker review, cutting down on the tedious processes used by current systems. At first, Parth used grant money to hire workers to fix their reported potholes. But as the app has gained traction, the government has stepped in to do some repairs. Parth hopes to expand access to the app across India, then into other Asian and African countries. The better. India has the story and you can find the link in the show notes. That's all for today's podcast. If you would like to support our work, head over to readtangle.com where you can buy a newsletter subscription, a podcast subscription, or a bundle membership that gets you a discount on both. We will be right back tomorrow, but in the meantime, this has been Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead. On behalf of Isaac and everyone else, have a nice day and peace.
- [33:43]
Isaac Saul
Our Executive Editor and Founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive Editor Executive Producer is John Wall. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@retangle.com. He's dribbling the ball with everything on the line. He's driving down the pitch he's facing price hikes and cuts past him Carrier contracts tries to block him. Oh, he leaves him in the dust he's at the edge of the box he cuts past the non stop group chat trash talk he clears on goal. He shoots no unlimited data for $25 a month forever. Visit your local Boost Mobile store today to get unlimited data with a price that never changes. Boost mobile after 30gb, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost $25 unlimited plan. Hi, I'm Jack Revici Kramer, host of the best one yet AT T. Boy, we're always talking about small decisions that can have an outsized impact. One of the simplest is staying hydrated. Whether I'm traveling, getting a workout in or heading into a busy day, I keep Liquid IV on hand. It's clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone and contains three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. It's an easy addition to your daily routine and helps support hydration when you need it most. Shop now@liquidiv.com, liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you.
- [35:26]
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