Tangle Podcast Summary: “Dismantling the Department of Education”

Published on March 10, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Tangle, host Isaac Saul delves into the contentious political discourse surrounding President Donald Trump’s plans to dismantle the Department of Education (ED). The episode provides a comprehensive examination of the proposed changes, featuring perspectives from both the political right and left, and concludes with Isaac Saul’s own analysis of the situation.

Main Discussion

1. Overview of Trump’s Plan to Dismantle the Department of Education

Isaac Saul opens the discussion by highlighting President Trump’s intention to abolish the Department of Education. He clarifies the complexities and potential misconceptions surrounding this proposal.

Isaac Saul (02:42):
"President Donald Trump's stated plans to abolish it or eliminate it or dismantle it. It's an interesting one, worth fleshing out a bit."

2. Current Status and Responsibilities of the Department of Education

John, the co-host, provides an in-depth look at the existing roles of the Department of Education. The ED manages federal funding for colleges and schools, oversees the federal student loan program, and operates the Office of Civil Rights, which enforces civil rights laws in educational institutions.

John (07:00):
"The Education Department is responsible for dispersing billions of dollars in federal funding to colleges and schools in the United States. As well as managing federal student loan program, the agency also operates the Office of Civil Rights..."

3. Trump's Criticisms and Campaign Promises

Trump has criticized the ED for its involvement in student loan forgiveness and the expansion of sex discrimination protections to include sexual orientation and gender identity. During his campaign, he advocated for the closure of the department to return control of education to individual states.

John (07:06):
"President Donald Trump is reportedly planning to sign an executive order directing education secretary Linda McMahon to facilitate closing the education department."
MIDI Health Representative (06:57):
"So they can make their own decisions about education."

4. Legislative Hurdles and Congressional Opposition

John explains that abolishing the Department of Education would require an act of Congress, as it is a cabinet-level agency established in 1979 with annually allocated funding. Previous attempts, such as Representative Thomas Massie’s 2023 bill, failed due to insufficient Republican support.

John (07:08):
"Any attempt to close ED or offload its core functions would likely require an act of Congress, which established the department as a cabinet level agency in 1979 and allocates its funding every year."

5. Reactions from the Political Right

The right largely supports the abolition of the ED, viewing it as an impediment to educational progress and a bearer of left-wing ideologies. Prominent opinions from publications like the Wall Street Journal and City Journal argue that dismantling the ED would eliminate bureaucratic red tape and enhance local control over education.

John (11:32):
"The right mostly supports abolishing the Department of Education, with many saying the department stands in the way of academic progress."
Kimberly A. Strassel, Wall Street Journal:
"Today’s inane system in which kids from Taos to Tallahassee are held hostage to a counterproductive maze of federal rules that dictate dollars yet waste resources and stymie local innovation."

6. Reactions from the Political Left

Conversely, the left defends the ED, emphasizing its role in ensuring equal educational opportunities and enforcing civil rights laws. Critics argue that eliminating the ED would disproportionately affect low-income and working-class families by stripping essential federal support.

John (14:00):
"The left mostly supports the Department of Education in its current form, arguing that it plays a vital oversight role in America's state-driven education system."
Washington Post Editorial Board:
"The agency, though by no means perfect, plays a vital role in ensuring that all states provide a decent education to American children."

7. Financial Implications and Impact on Federal Funding

The ED oversees significant financial resources, including approximately $160.7 billion in federal student aid for FY 2024. Abolishing the department could disrupt the allocation of these funds, potentially impacting special education, low-income students, and federal student grants and loans.

John (25:53):
"The amount spent by ED in fiscal year 2024 was $268 billion, the sixth most of any federal agency, and the amount of ED spending in fiscal year 2024 that went toward federal student aid is $160.7 billion."

Host’s Take: Isaac Saul’s Analysis

Isaac Saul offers a nuanced perspective, acknowledging the questionable efficacy and bureaucratic weight of the ED while also recognizing the challenges in outright abolition. He points out that many proponents of dismantling the ED do not seek to eliminate its programs but rather to redistribute them to other governmental departments, such as the Department of Justice and the Treasury.

Isaac Saul (20:28):
"The plan is to defund the Education Department, but the money will keep flowing. We'll dismantle the Education Department, but really redistribute its programs across the government."

He underscores the political and logistical hurdles, noting that significant congressional support is unlikely and that such a move could lead to substantial disruption without necessarily reducing the federal government’s footprint. Saul suggests that a more effective strategy might involve reforming the ED to align with conservative priorities, such as increasing school choice and overhauling student loan programs, rather than seeking its dissolution.

Isaac Saul (21:45):
"The problem with the current debate is that doing so wouldn't really reduce the size of the federal government, nor would they save all that much money either. Instead, they'd just create a whole lot of disruption, risk interrupting popular services, and probably lose the political debate in the public square."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the ongoing uncertainty surrounding the Department of Education’s future. Isaac Saul highlights the administration’s indecision and the practical limitations imposed by legislative requirements, leaving listeners with a clear understanding that the dismantling of the ED is a complex and unresolved issue.

Isaac Saul (25:24):
"For now, I think it's safe to say Trump is muddling a lot of promises and providing very little clarity on what the Education Department's future really is."

Numbers and Under-the-Radar Stories

John presents intriguing statistics about the Department of Education, including its historical budget, employee count, and the scale of student loan debt it manages. Additionally, an under-the-radar story about Utah Governor Spencer Cox’s move to ban fluoride in public water systems is discussed, highlighting the state’s initiative despite federal health agencies advocating for fluoride to prevent tooth decay.

Final Thoughts

Isaac Saul emphasizes the importance of understanding the Department of Education's actual functions and the implications of its potential dissolution. He urges listeners to consider the broader impact on educational funding and civil rights enforcement, advocating for thoughtful reform over abrupt elimination.

Isaac Saul (20:28):
"Whatever course they take, I think it's safe to say that even the administration isn't sure where this is going."

Notable Quotes

• Isaac Saul (02:42):
  "It's an interesting one, worth fleshing out a bit."

• John (07:00):
  "The Education Department is responsible for dispersing billions of dollars in federal funding to colleges and schools in the United States."

• Kimberly A. Strassel, Wall Street Journal (11:32):
  "Today’s inane system in which kids from Taos to Tallahassee are held hostage to a counterproductive maze of federal rules that dictate dollars yet waste resources and stymie local innovation."

• Isaac Saul (20:28):
  "The plan is to defund the Education Department, but the money will keep flowing."

Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with practical information for listeners interested in supporting Tangle and staying informed through their newsletter and memberships. Isaac Saul ensures that the episode remains focused on delivering insightful political analysis, free from the distraction of advertisements.

This summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, providing a detailed overview of the discussions surrounding the potential dismantling of the Department of Education. It highlights the multifaceted perspectives, legislative challenges, financial implications, and the host’s analytical viewpoints, ensuring that even those who haven't listened can grasp the key issues and debates presented.