Tangle Podcast Episode Summary: "FULL EPISODE - The Friday Edition: Yes, I’d like to briefly defend Gavin Newsom"

Release Date: March 21, 2025
Host: Isaac Saul
Podcast Title: Tangle
Description: Independent, non-partisan politics news featuring diverse perspectives from across the political spectrum, alongside insightful interviews with political figures.

1. Introduction

In this episode of Tangle, host Isaac Saul undertakes a comprehensive defense of California Governor Gavin Newsom amidst widespread criticism over Newsom’s latest political maneuver—the launch of his podcast, This Is Gavin Newsom. Saul aims to dissect the controversies surrounding the governor’s initiative to engage with right-wing personalities, providing a balanced analysis that challenges prevailing negative narratives.

2. Gavin Newsom’s New Podcast: Bridging Political Divides

Gavin Newsom has initiated a podcast titled This Is Gavin Newsom, which serves as a platform for dialogues between him and a spectrum of political thinkers, notably those aligned with the MAGA movement. The podcast features high-profile conservative figures such as:

• Charlie Kirk (Moderator, [01:45])
• Michael Savage (Conservative Commentator, [02:10])
• Steve Bannon (MAGA Strategist, [02:35])

This bold move has sparked speculation about Newsom’s potential aspirations for the 2028 presidential race, with Saul noting, “Newsom's podcast was basically his campaign announcement.”

3. Media and Public Criticism

Newsom's podcast has not been received favorably across the political landscape. Prominent criticisms include:

• Michelle Goldberg (The New York Times): Questioned Newsom's strategy of leveraging right-wing influencers to rehabilitate his image, stating, “Newsom tries to use right-wing influencers to fix his image” ([03:15]).

• Des Potash (USA Today): Criticized Newsom for not stepping up as a leader, asserting, “Governor Gavin Newsom could step up to be a better leader that California needs” ([03:45]).

• Margaret Sullivan (The Guardian): Highlighted the irony of Newsom providing Steve Bannon with a platform, remarking, “Why is Gavin Newsom handing Steve Bannon a megaphone?” ([03:50]).

Additionally, Newsom faced backlash from political figures like Adam Kinzinger, who labeled Newsom’s actions as “unforgivable and insane” ([04:05]).

Public opinion reflected this sentiment, with Newsom's favorability among liberals dropping from 46% to 30%, and Republicans viewing him as “insincere, fake, and pandering” ([04:10]). The podcast's reception was further evidenced by its low rating of 2.8 out of 5 stars on Apple Podcasts ([04:15]).

4. Isaac Saul’s Defense of Gavin Newsom

Contrary to the prevailing criticism, Isaac Saul offers a nuanced defense of Newsom’s podcast strategy, emphasizing several key aspects:

a. Inclusivity of Conversations

Saul underscores the rarity and importance of Newsom engaging directly with prominent right-wing figures, stating, “It's incredible that these conversations are happening at all” ([05:00]). He highlights that unlike many liberals who limit their engagement to like-minded individuals, Newsom is fostering genuine dialogue across ideological divides.

b. Cordial Discussions Without Hostility

A standout feature of Newsom's interviews is the respectful and cordial nature of the discussions. Saul notes, “Despite the radical differences in worldview between host and guest, neither devolved into shouting matches or ad hominem attacks” ([05:45]). This contrasts sharply with the often hostile exchanges typical in political discourse.

c. Genuine Attempt to Understand Guests

Perhaps most commendable is Newsom’s approach to the interviews: rather than using the platform to defend his record or to preach, he seeks to understand his guests’ perspectives. Saul observes, “He spent almost the entirety of both interviews asking questions that is actually trying to better understand the perspective of the guests” ([06:00]).

5. Specific Examples and Notable Interactions

Saul provides insights from his own experience listening to the podcasts with Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon:

• Steve Bannon’s Candor: Despite Bannon's controversial reputation, Saul found value in his honesty, stating, “Bannon... said a lot of things I actually agree with and conducted himself with a good deal of candor and grace” ([06:30]).

• Newsom’s Interview Technique: Saul praises Newsom for eliciting thoughtful responses without forcing guests into defensive positions, enabling a more authentic exchange of ideas ([06:50]).

6. Rebuttal to Media Criticisms

Addressing the critiques from Michelle Goldberg and Zeeshan Aleem (MSNBC), Saul counters:

• On Seeking Common Ground: Goldberg criticized Newsom for seemingly favoring consensus over debate. Saul rebuts by arguing, “That is not actually what being open-minded or curious is about” ([08:00]). He suggests that seeking understanding is a more constructive approach than confrontational debating.

• On Handling Misinformation: Aleem contended that Newsom allowed misinformation to go unchallenged. Saul disagrees, pointing out instances where Newsom did push back effectively, such as when Bannon falsely claimed the 2020 election was stolen. He notes, “Newsom smoothly applied by audibly laughing in his face at the absurdity of this position” ([08:30]).

Saul admits Newsom is not without flaws, acknowledging moments where he could have interjected more forcefully. However, he maintains that the overall approach fosters a healthier political dialogue.

7. Conclusion: A Path Forward for Political Discourse

Isaac Saul concludes by lauding Newsom’s initiative as a rare and necessary effort to bridge political divides. He emphasizes the value of earnest dialogue over partisan clashes, stating, “It's an encouraging sign of where our political leaders are headed and a healthy response from a party leader whose party just lost a lot of power in the last election” ([09:00]). Saul advocates for more such efforts to foster understanding and step back from divisive rhetoric, expressing hope that Newsom's approach could inspire a more constructive political environment.

Notable Quotes

• Isaac Saul on Newsom’s Campaign Ambitions:
  “I said that his podcast was basically his campaign announcement.” ([04:00])

• Adam Kinzinger on Newsom’s Podcast:
  “Unforgivable and insane.” ([04:05])

• Isaac Saul on the Podcast's Dialogues:
  “There is very little gotcha nonsense or thunderdome elements that we see on CNN or Fox News.” ([08:45])

• Michelle Goldberg’s Critique:
  “Newsom tries to use right-wing influencers to fix his image.” ([03:15])

• Isaac Saul on Media Degradation of Political Dialogue:
  “It's the same unoriginal approach happening all across the media that has continued to degrade political dialogue.” ([09:30])

Key Takeaways

• Gavin Newsom’s Bold Move: Launching a podcast featuring right-wing guests to foster political dialogue.

• Mixed Reactions: While facing significant criticism from media and political figures, Newsom's approach is commended for its inclusivity and respectful discourse.

• Isaac Saul’s Defense: Highlights the importance of understanding differing perspectives and praises Newsom for creating a platform for genuine conversation.

• Encouraging Healthy Dialogue: Emphasizes the need for more initiatives that bridge political divides, moving away from hostile and partisan exchanges.

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