FULL EPISODE: The Sunday Podcast: Ari, Will, Magdalena, and Jon play a game, talk about DOGE, and air some grievances.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Tangle – "The Sunday Podcast: Ari, Will, Magdalena, and Jon play a game, talk about DOGE, and air some grievances"

Release Date: November 24, 2024
Host: Isaac Saul (Absent in this episode)
Co-Hosts: Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Magdalena Bova, Jonathan Fields
Awards: Shorty Award for News and Media, Audience Award

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1. Introduction and Award Celebration

Timestamp: [02:13] – [06:49]

In this episode of Tangle, Ari Weitzman steps in as the host in Isaac Saul's absence, joined by Tango editor Will Kabak. The team kicks off by celebrating a significant milestone: Tangle has won its first major accolade, the Shorty Award, in both the News and Media category and the Audience Award.

Notable Quotes:

• Will Kabak [03:59]: "It was a testament to our own work and accomplishments from the past year at Tangle, but also to the strength and engagement of our audience."
• Ari Weitzman [05:28]: "It's been a wild ride. And I think I want to echo the gratitude that you're voicing for the listeners and readers who voted for us for the Shorty Award."

The co-hosts express immense gratitude towards their audience, acknowledging that their growth from 1,000 to over 275,000 subscribers is a collective achievement.

2. Airplane Seat Game: Choosing Political Figures

Timestamp: [02:13] – [57:06]

To infuse a lighter tone suitable for Thanksgiving week, the team engages in a fun segment inspired by Bill Simmons' "Yes, No, Maybe" game. They tackle a scenario where they must choose seats next to various political and public figures on a hypothetical 10-hour flight.

Game Overview: The hosts are presented with 12 seating options, each involving sitting next to notable individuals such as Donald Trump, Greta Thunberg, Kamala Harris, Elon Musk, Mark Cuban, and Shaquille O'Neal, among others.

Notable Choices and Discussions:

• Ari Weitzman [09:06] opts against sitting next to Trump and Greta Thunberg, criticizing Isaac Saul's choice of Option 1.
• Jonathan Fields [17:05]: Prefers sitting between Joe Rogan and Alex Jones for their intriguing personalities, expressing fascination with their differing viewpoints.
• Will Kabak [09:44]: Originally conflicted but leans towards preferring Shaquille O'Neal for his humor and potential for light-hearted interaction, despite the physical discomfort.
• Madison H. [07:38] chooses sitting next to Taylor Swift to discuss music, highlighting her admiration for her as a pop writer.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Fields [18:07]: "I would sit next to Rogan because he's probably one of the most likable personalities on the flight."
• Madison H. [23:34]: "I'm going to talk shop with her [Taylor Swift] and maybe discuss future science with Bill Gates."

3. Discussion on the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)

Timestamp: [36:08] – [56:56]

The conversation shifts to a serious topic: the formation of the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), co-chaired by Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk. The hosts dissect the implications of this new government initiative aimed at reducing federal waste and inefficiency.

Key Points Discussed:

• Leadership Concerns: Skepticism about Elon Musk's suitability due to his penchant for humor and memetic communication, which may undermine the department's seriousness ([35:15] – [36:23]).
• Headcount Reduction: Debates the proposal to drastically cut federal employees proportionate to the elimination of federal regulations, questioning the feasibility and philosophical approach ([36:25] – [42:48]).
• Use of AI: Analyzes DOGE's intent to employ artificial intelligence to apply Supreme Court rulings to federal regulations, expressing uncertainty about its effectiveness ([42:48] – [46:07]).
• Subcommittee Appointment: Critiques the appointment of Marjorie Taylor Greene as chair of a subcommittee under DOGE, doubting her capability to drive meaningful legislative change ([46:07] – [49:14]).
• Tax Filing App: Shows cautious optimism towards DOGE's plan to develop a mobile app for free tax filing, recognizing the potential benefits while noting concerns about government overreach ([49:19] – [50:44]).
• Federal Agency Relocation: Discusses the proposal to move federal agency headquarters out of Washington D.C., weighing the economic benefits against the logistical challenges ([52:42] – [55:34]).
• Federal Overspending: Analyzes DOGE's aim to cut over $500 billion in unauthorized federal expenditures, questioning the impact and practicality of targeting specific line items ([55:34] – [57:06]).

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Weitzman [36:08]: "I have a hard time seeing past that [DOGE's name]... I think a lot of times Musk has a tendency towards jokeyness."
• Will Kabak [43:23]: "I think they're going to be surprised when they get in there if any of the stuff actually does get enacted by the differences in how the federal government operates."
• Ari Weitzman [49:19]: "I think it is something that on net would be more efficient if it's rolled out correctly."

4. Grievance Session: Airing Frustrations

Timestamp: [57:24] – [79:14]

In a heartfelt and candid segment, the Tangle team opens up about personal grievances, adding a human touch to the episode.

Highlighted Grievances:

• Ari Weitzman [59:19]: Struggles with trivia questions that are overly tricky, leading to frustration and loss of points in his online trivia league.
• Will Kabak [61:52] – [67:28]: Expresses annoyance with morning jump ropers at his local budget gym, criticizing their monopolization of space and noise.
• Madison H. [68:38] – [77:40]: Shares a distressing experience traveling with her mother, detailing multiple flight delays and cancellations at Newark Airport, highlighting poor customer service from United Airlines.
• Jonathan Fields [73:18] – [78:59]: Complains about delays in receiving print magazine editions and the pervasive issue of non-transparent resort fees in Florida hotels.

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Weitzman [59:51]: "I missed that one because... I feel like just knowing what Sri Jawadanaparakate is and what country it's the capital of ought to be enough."
• Will Kabak [65:54]: "Maybe I'm a little out of pocket, but that's the way I've been feeling."
• Madison H. [70:35]: "United, baby. I was saying, come on, you are one of the top three. You're supposed to have this together."

5. Conclusion and Closing Remarks

Timestamp: [79:14] – [80:17]

The episode wraps up with acknowledgments and thanks to the team and listeners. The hosts reaffirm their appreciation for the audience’s support, especially in winning the Shorty Awards, and encourage listeners to engage with Tangle through their newsletter and website.

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Weitzman [79:53]: "Thank you all for joining us on our Thanksgiving bickering episode of Tangle. We appreciate you all for listening and voting for us for the Shorty Award."
• Madison H. [79:56]: "Peace."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Tangle celebrates winning prestigious awards, highlighting their growing influence and dedicated audience.
• The team engages in light-hearted yet insightful discussions, blending entertainment with critical analysis of current political and governmental issues.
• Personal anecdotes and grievances add relatability, showcasing the hosts’ diverse experiences and frustrations.
• The episode balances humor with serious commentary, maintaining Tangle’s independent and non-partisan voice.

Recommendation: For listeners seeking an engaging blend of political discourse, entertaining segments, and authentic conversations, this episode of Tangle offers a comprehensive and enjoyable experience.

Transcript

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[Jonathan Fields]

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[Madison H.]

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[Ari Weitzman]

Know, I thought it was a little ridiculous to get pet insurance, but I really didn't want to not take my little kitten to the vet because of money. In the last eight months, I've taken him in six times because of ear infections and saved literally hundreds of dollars. He may even need to get surgery and I couldn't consider it without Lemonade's help. I recommend Lemonade to all my friends constantly and now I'm recommending it to you.

[Madison H.]

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[Ari Weitzman]

Coming up. Isaac's out, so Ari's running the show. We are joined by every other member of the Tangle team. We go through what we would do on an airplane next to different political figures. We talk about Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy in The Doge Initiative and then a Make a Grievance session. I think you guys are going to enjoy this one.

[Jonathan Fields]

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

[Ari Weitzman]

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to all the Tangle listeners. I am not Isaac Saul, as you may have recognized by now. This is Ari Weitzman, Tangle managing editor and co host of the Sunday podcast. Isaac is off today, and in his stead, we're going to be doing something a little bit different from the Sunday podcast today. So I'm going to be hosting. So I'm stepping up from co host to the host chair, which is the same chair. And I'm joined by Tango editor Will Kabak. How we doing, Will?

[Will Kabak]

I'm doing well. It's great to be back and talking with you, Ari.

[Ari Weitzman]

And for everybody this week, we thought it'd be a good time to do something a little bit more low key, a little more casual. We know it's Thanksgiving week coming up, so we've got something special later in the pod. But first, a little bit of news. So we had a nice announcement that we got to make today, which was that Tangle won our first major award, which was the Shorty Award. And Will, can you tell us a little bit more about that? Like, what's that mean?

[Will Kabak]

Yeah. So the Shorty Awards are a pretty massive awards program. The first one, first iteration was 2009, so it's been going on for a good while, and it's essentially focused on digital social media content and brands and companies. So it encompasses a huge range of categories and different kinds of companies, startups, established companies. Some of the past winners are huge celebrities. Trevor Noah, Michelle Obama, hbo, airbnb. I'm just running down the list of what they have on their main page, but we submitted for the News and Media category, honoring innovative, impactful news and media companies. We got word about a month ago that we were finalists. So we were one of the two companies that had been selected to be judged by the Shorty Awards panel. And we also were up for an Audience Award, which is basically where you have your audience vote for you as much as one time a day. You can receive an additional award called the Audience Award, that just kind of shows the impact that you have among your audience. And then today we got word that we won in both categories. So we were the winner in the news and media category, and we received the Audience Award. So it was a testament to our own work and accomplishments from the past year at Tangle, but also to the strength and engagement of our audience. So a huge thank you to everybody who voted for us and participated in that process. And it's just a really exciting moment.

[Ari Weitzman]

It's really exciting for me too. I think, having jumped over into this new media landscape from eight years of software engineering, which I was doing previously, before helping Isaac with editing, before coming on full time, before coming full time with you and Magdalena and John and building something together after all the work that Isaac did for years in obscurity, in the darkness, slowly growing to 1,000, then 10,000, then 25,000, and now just floored at the growth we've had over the last couple of weeks that we're over 275,000 subscribers on the newsletter, more on the podcast, and it's been a wild ride. And I think I want to echo the gratitude that you're voicing for the listeners and readers who voted for us for the Shorty Award. It's something we don't get to do without everybody who listens and reads.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a validator, I think, for every single person in the Tangle community. It really did kind of encompass every part of what we do. So, yeah, it's gratifying. It's an awesome award. I know Isaac instantly updated the about page to award winning media organization. He was.

[Ari Weitzman]

So he loves nothing more than being able to say that for sure.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah. So, yeah, it's a fun, exciting day, kind of capping off weeks of fun and exciting news for Tangle.

[Ari Weitzman]

And while we're talking about the whole Tangle community, I think it's a nice transition to talk about the kind of special thing that we have planned for today, which is something with most of the Tangle team, our full timers, sans Isaac. So when this podcast comes out, it's going to be Sunday before Thanksgiving week, travel week for a lot of people, going to be entering for some of us, I know fraught political conversations, Thanksgiving or travel or a lot of experiences where you might be looking for something a little lighter. So we are now joined by our executive producer, John Law, and our executive everything else, Magdalena Bova, to go through something a little bit light. So, John, Magdalena, how are you two doing?

[Madison H.]

Mags.

[Ari Weitzman]

Obviously it's my first time doing hosting because I'm introducing two people at once, which is probably Bartle saying this.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, God. Okay, there's going to be some growing pains. Are we redoing that or. No, we're keeping.

[Madison H.]

No, definitely not. No, we're keeping that.

[Ari Weitzman]

That's fantastic. Okay. So, John, me, How we doing?

[Jonathan Fields]

We're doing great. I really liked that introduction. So I think I might make my business cards that title now. So thank you, Ari, for the inspiration.

[Ari Weitzman]

Oh, it's my pleasure. And thank you, Mags, for this interesting. Wait, I'm sorry. You didn't do this. This was something Isaac shared with us. It's something that you might do, but Isaac sort of dropped a grenade into one of our chats, which was this image that's like one of these viral. Which of these things would you choose? Images from this Instagram account, tradedvc. That's just about. Who would you sit next to on a plane with all of these different political figures as your options for seatmates? So knowing that this is something that maybe you'd want to see linked out in a visual format, we're going to have a link to this in the show notes so you can see what the picture is, but I'll do my best to describe it. So you've got 12 choices.

[Will Kabak]

We are. One additional note is that this is a 10 hour flight.

[Ari Weitzman]

Thank you. Yes. So on a 10 hour flight, where would you rather sit of these 12 choices? Option one, middle seat between Donald Trump and Greta Thunberg. Option two, aisle seat immediately next to Kamala Harris. On the other side is Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban. I just forgot his name when I saw his face. I'm aging rapidly. Option three, middle seat between two guys that I don't recognize. So somebody who's a podcaster on the all in podcast, right?

[Will Kabak]

Jason Kalikanas.

[Ari Weitzman]

Jason Kalikanas. Apologies, Jason. And another person who I just. None of us know him.

[Will Kabak]

No idea who this is.

[Ari Weitzman]

No clue. I'm sure he's lovely. I'm not, but I hope he's lovely. Option 4, aisle seat next to Elon Musk. On the other side of. Is that Kim Kardashian? Look at me, guys.

[Jonathan Fields]

It is. Yeah.

[Will Kabak]

Those pauses. Those pauses are ominous.

[Ari Weitzman]

Well, I'm not the most culturally fluent of our Tangle staff members, so. Number five, it's a window seat directly next to. One of you. Have me on this. This person.

[Madison H.]

That's Will.

[Will Kabak]

Nope, I haven't the foggiest.

[Jonathan Fields]

Sorry. Who are we at?

[Ari Weitzman]

Number five. That's not Stavros, is it?

[Will Kabak]

No.

[Ari Weitzman]

Okay. Next to a person not Greek and on the other side of whom is RFK Jr Option 6 is an aisle seat next to Mark Andreessen. On the other side of whom is Theo Vaughn. Look at me go. Option seven, middle seat between Jake Paul and Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate. Oh, sorry. I know.

[Jonathan Fields]

Why is he in there?

[Ari Weitzman]

Why is he in there? I'm sure there are People who would love that, giving that one away, 10 year old nephew who would probably pick that seat.

[Jonathan Fields]

I just want to note that this entire thing is like the account is called Trade VC and like it makes sense as to the choices here. Like, this is very tech, bro. Yeah, Choice, the online mail, right? Yeah, for sure.

[Ari Weitzman]

There's a slant in that direction.

[Jonathan Fields]

I'm just gonna say I looked through these comments just like now while we were like talking about this. That's why I spaced on number five. And there are no funny comments. Like I was like, I'm here for the comments. Like, what are people saying? And people are like, number three, obviously, number eight. Like there was nothing to really glean apart from someone saying that if you sat next to to Shaq, you would be squeezed out of your seat for like the entire 10 hours.

[Ari Weitzman]

So foreshadowing Shaq to come.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, someone might have chosen that one.

[Ari Weitzman]

So thank God we're here to bring the lighthearted commentary then. So seat number eight, we've got just a couple more to get through. Seat number eight is next to David Portnoy on the aisle. On the other side of whom is our guy at Amazon, Jeff Bezos. Number nine, middle seat between two very online figures of the right, which is Joe Rogan on the aisle. And on the window is Alex Jones. Number 10 is that coveted window seat next to Shaquille O'Neal. And on the other side of him is Peter Thiel. Seat 11, aisle seat. Immediately next to Taylor Swift. On the other side of Taylor is Bill gates. And number 12, the last spot, a window seat next to Mark Zuckerberg. On the other side of Mark is the CEO of what company will you have this?

[Will Kabak]

Nvidia Jensen Huang.

[Ari Weitzman]

Thank you. So there's all of our options. We all had pretty strong immediate reactions. Maybe some people who are listening have reactions as well. But I'll just start this by saying everyone else is wrong. I'm right. But I'll go last. And I'll start by saying Isaac chose option one, which was the middle seat next to Trump and Greta. And I think that is insane and I just want to hear what you all think about that.

[Will Kabak]

He was so confident too. It was the number one. Next question, I believe was how he framed it.

[Ari Weitzman]

Definitely not even close were the direct words from our insane CEO Isaac Saul.

[Will Kabak]

I think Isaac just really wants to interview Trump and hopefully we can realize that goal for him someday. I think he was going to pick whatever seat Trump was in regardless of who the other occupant was.

[Madison H.]

Right. I have To. I'm going to take a little bit of. This is a very Ahri perspective here. That's my man. That's my dude right there. Very practical man. Always thinking, Donald Trump is a notorious chair farter. So I can't be next to somebody.

[Ari Weitzman]

Is this a scoop like that?

[Madison H.]

No, this is a thing.

[Jonathan Fields]

This is a thing that is correct, not corrupt.

[Madison H.]

He was falling asleep and farting in his chair. It was reported.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think farted from him. John, this sounds like some left leaning liberal artist to me.

[Madison H.]

I want to say. I read it in Slate.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, man.

[Madison H.]

But now I feel like I got to go back and prove this. But that even just the, just the idea that that's a possibility on a 10 hour flight, I can't.

[Ari Weitzman]

Anybody could fart. Okay, okay. Well, we respect your opinion.

[Jonathan Fields]

They're like those stinky McDonald's farts too, because we know what the man eats.

[Will Kabak]

Did he have McDonald's before the flight? Is a great question.

[Ari Weitzman]

Now that's interesting because RFK Jr did say that the stuff that Trump brings onto his plane when he's campaigning is, quote, poison, like fast food stuff that he would never eat. I mean, RFK is very famously rigorous about the kind of things that he would put into his body and eat. So consider the source here. But I think it's fair to say that there's a track record of Trump being friendly towards the fast foods and what they offer.

[Jonathan Fields]

Did he mean the food or the people on the plane?

[Ari Weitzman]

Did we clarify he was referring to the food? It was really clear in context. He said campaign food's never great, but the stuff that Trump eats during his campaigns at a different level, which I think is probably just fast food. I think RFK Jr. Just, you know, has no tolerance for that. But I mean, RFK Jr. Is on this flight. Is. Is he an option for any of you?

[Will Kabak]

He is. Not for me, no.

[Ari Weitzman]

We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

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[Madison H.]

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[Ari Weitzman]

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[Madison H.]

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[Ari Weitzman]

Ebay things people love. Well, Mags, where are you going? What. What seat are you taking?

[Jonathan Fields]

I am. I mean, I have to admit I was pulled towards number one just because I think it's a 10 hour flight and being next to Donald Trump, like he's not going to be this Persona that you see, you know, in the media for the entire 10 hours. I mean, he might be sleeping, he might be eating, you know, but I feel like there would be a glimmer of hope of seeing maybe a potential realness to him and that would be super fascinating. I did not choose that seat because I think sitting next to Greta and just knowing she would be like scowling the entire time would make for some awkward vibes. And it's a 10 hour flight and I don't. Especially if Trump is crop dusting me the entire time, as John allegedly thinks he would be. So. Allegedly. So. I'm just watching out for the people. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Ari Weitzman]

Keep looking out.

[Jonathan Fields]

I would go for Rogan, that middle seat between Rogan and Alex Jones. Interesting. I just think they would be the most fascinating, you know, obviously. Okay, so I'm gonna put this out there, but do we, do we label Rogan, I mean, obviously Jones is a conspiracy theorist. Do we label Rogan as a conspiracy. Conspiracy theorist? Because I feel like he has some. I don't think he's a conspiracy theorist, but he definitely panders to a little bit of that, like, aura. So I would just think it's fascinating to be with between two people that are obviously hold like, interesting views about the deep state and vaccinations and mainstream media. And I just think Rogan would be obviously like super funny and personable and he would make the effort to probably talk to us and me. And so that would be an interesting one to sit through. Whereas, like, can you imagine if you sat next to Zuckerberg, like, what would you talk to him about? I mean, you would actually maybe have connect with him.

[Will Kabak]

Maybe I would be like, hey, did that girl ever friend you back from college and your social network? Anybody?

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, the one that you created? Yeah. So I don't know. I just think it'd be interesting.

[Ari Weitzman]

I cannot personally imagine asking either Mark Zuckerberg or Joe Rogan to scoot over while I went to use the bathroom on a 10 hour flight. I think that would be just so awkward for me. But yeah, to your question, I wouldn't label Rogan a conspiracy theorist. I think I know that some would, but I think he's just a fantastic interviewer. And that's the reason why he's so popular in his podcast as number one is that he's really good at showing genuine interest in people and getting them to open up and tell their perspectives in a way that's safe and personable. I don't know what we get out of Alex Jones in that Jones is a person who has gone on record and said that infowars is an entertainment website, and within, when the mic is on, very much plays a different character, which is one of the reasons why a judge ruled that he had to, like, sell all of his media assets to try to cover this giant fine from the Sandy Hook families. I don't know what that would be like sitting between the two of them. I think that's a fascinating answer from Magdalena, and we get to get a little bit of insight into how her mind works. And I'm sure that there's a little part of you, Mags, that's thinking I'd sit next to Joe Rogan because that's the most popular podcast in the world, and maybe that'd be a way for Tangle to talk to Joe.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, yeah. I mean, yes. Um, I mean, I read something recently about him that was like, you don't get to be the number one podcaster without being the most likable person. So I feel like on this entire flight, he's probably one of the most likable personalities that's on there. But also, I would sit next to Jones just to ask him how he feels about the Onion buying infowars, just because I feel like that would just start an entire tirade. And I'm sure he would get, like, super red and hot under the collar. And I think Rogan would probably get a lot of good entertainment out of him that he could use on his podcast. So it'd be like a really interesting moment.

[Ari Weitzman]

Little inside scoop.

[Madison H.]

All I can think is how different will the headlines even be between Infowars and the Onion? Probably not at all pretty similar.

[Ari Weitzman]

Well, the Onion recently boasted that they had, I think, 1.7 trillion daily readers, so maybe not as dissimilar as we think. Anyway, John, what's your choice here? Who are you going with?

[Madison H.]

All right, I'm going to start, actually by saying a couple right off top that I definitely would not do. It's very important to understand. Definitely not sitting next to Shaq, as was already kind of stated by mags, but I'm 6 foot 4. Airplanes are not comfortable. Generally speaking, for me, I'm definitely not sitting next to 7 foot 4, 300,000 pound shack. I'm not doing that. I just can't do that. Even though he's. He's the dude. Also definitely not sitting next to Jake Paul and Andrew Tate. Cause that's about 40 tons of axe body spray that I can't take. Where I think I am sitting is going to be prime spot number 11. You know what it is? You know what it is? I got to sit there. First of all, I'm a musician, so I'm just going to Talk Shop.

[Ari Weitzman]

Number 11 is the aisle seat next to Taylor Swift. Of course.

[Madison H.]

That is correct. I am definitely going to talk shop with her. You know, talk music, see about what I can do to maybe play a little guitar on the next album, you know, what's going on. And then I can, you know, if the conversation runs a little stale, bring in my man Bill Gates, talk, you know, Future Science, Windows 98, bringing back the Zune. All sorts of fun stuff.

[Will Kabak]

Whoa.

[Ari Weitzman]

Wow. Yeah, a lot of future science there, John, with Windows 98 and the Zune. Great.

[Madison H.]

Those aren't mutually exclusive, you know, I'm just saying things to talk about. Okay. Yeah, I think that's the prime spot there. I also just want to make one little quick note here, which is kind of funny to me. But the thing is, like, these are all venture capitalists and like, you know, millionaires, billionaires, whatever, very powerful people. Why are they sitting in rows of three like they're sitting in economy class?

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah. John, you're asking the wrong questions, man.

[Will Kabak]

We're on our way to our end of the world bunkers and there was only.

[Madison H.]

There's only so much room.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right. And we got a seat on that plane. Well, I'll spoil it by saying, you know, I fully agree with John. It's the right answer. I'll explain why. And I'll explain why Will's wrong after Will gets to tell us his answer. What do you think? Excellent. What's your wrong answer?

[Will Kabak]

Well, my wrong answer has already been brought up. And it's Shaq and Peter Thiel. I mean, how John brings up. John brings up a great point. I mean, John's. John's a little bigger than me. I'm six three. I'm pretty lanky, so the. That helps a bit. But I'm also long in the leg. That's where a lot of the height comes from. So planes are uncomfortable. There's. There's no doubt about it. My thinking is it's already going to be uncomfortable for me. I don't know how much more Shaq adds to that. I feel terrible for him in the middle seat. But I do think that there is a potential advantage to sitting next to Shaq, which is that he could ferry me over the seats with his bare hands if I needed to use the bathroom. And I could be carried like a baby boy to the aisle, which I haven't experienced in a long time. I think it would be nice to go back and have that experience.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think will be such a shack so you can feel swaddled like you were as an infant.

[Will Kabak]

I think that Shaq could pick me up with one hand and put me down in the aisle of the plane.

[Jonathan Fields]

Spin you like a basketball.

[Will Kabak]

Yes, yes. But beyond that, although I would say it's the primary reason, I consider Shaq to be a cultivator of vibes in the sense that he is somebody who's always having a good time, he is always keeping it light, and his humor is the humor that resonates me the most, which is like facial reactions and spit takes. I find everything that Shaq does to be hilarious. And so I would just take the opportunity to sit next to him no matter what the environment was. And I find Peter Thiel interesting too. I would want to ask Peter Thiel about his role in the ascension of J.D. vance, and that would be the topic. I would want to talk to him with Shaq there for comedic relief if it ever got too heavy.

[Ari Weitzman]

Hmm. So I don't know, Ari.

[Jonathan Fields]

That's a good reasoning. Will, would you switch with Shaq, though? Would you give him your window seat?

[Will Kabak]

I would give him the window seat and I would just. I would treat him like the window seat I would be leaning into if I wanted to fall asleep.

[Jonathan Fields]

More hugs, more hugs, more content.

[Will Kabak]

I would lose the ferrying ability, but I think he would be kind of like a giant pillow that I could.

[Ari Weitzman]

Lean into if in 10 hours, you're gonna need at least a nap on the way.

[Will Kabak]

Right.

[Ari Weitzman]

And that's, you know, I'm seeing. I'm seeing that we have a very different on plane attitude towards what we want here. Because the thing that I really want is minimal contact as much as possible. And the person who I'm going to get that from is Taylor Swift. 100% I can. So first of all, 10 hour flight, I'm taking an aisle. So already that gets a lot of them out of the way. Um, I'm taking the aisle of the person that I expect to be all of these things. One keeps to herself. Respectful. She's gonna have her earbuds on. There's gonna be a lot of weird conversations in this flight. We're gonna exchange, like, eye roll glances a lot. And that's gonna be most of our communication with each other. I'm gonna be respectfully distant, and I expect she'll be the same. Two, she's gonna. She's gonna be like, to herself and clean. I'm so, so certain that Taylor Swift would be clean on a flight. I can't say I have the same level of certainty about every single other person on this flight. Uh, and three, I'm on the aisle. I get to move. I'm sitting directly next to. On the other aisle. RFK Jr if I want interesting, weird conversation, I'll turn my head to the left. When I want to sleep, I'll put the earbuds in. Maybe I'll let Taylor Swift see that I have one of her albums on. Just, you know, maybe there'll be a conversation eventually. I'm not. I don't need it, but maybe. And then I'll go to sleep and I can expect that there'll be a respectful etiquette of cultural distance between the two of us on a 10 hour flight, which is a long time. And that's why John's right. And I love you, John. And you two are fine.

[Will Kabak]

So smart. What you're neglecting. What you're neglecting is that in the row immediately behind you, me and Shaq are going to be yucking it up. So I don't know how much sleep you're going to be able to get.

[Ari Weitzman]

Well, this kind of reminds me, the.

[Jonathan Fields]

Knees are going to be in the chair hitting you.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah.

[Madison H.]

Rowan, though, we're not. We're on the aisle, so we're not getting that lean back stuff. And Taylor is, you know, she seems like a petite person. She could handle it.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think she's five'eleven all right, maybe not.

[Jonathan Fields]

Okay. So, Ari, you are definitely a Swifty. No one knows that about Taylor Swift without being a Swiftie.

[Ari Weitzman]

I am married to a Swiftie and like a low level Swiftie, I think, but somebody who's been to a Taylor Swift concert. We have one of her albums on vinyl. And when you show interest in your partner, you learn about their interests. I can. I have a lot of stuff I can say about Taylor Swift now that I've learned thanks to. Thanks to my marriage, and I'm grateful for knowing it.

[Madison H.]

I'm going to go ahead and also say she's one of the best. I must say she's one of the best pop writers of the last like 30 years. Well, 20 years other than Brandon Flowers.

[Ari Weitzman]

I would love to get to get the chance to talk to. We learned recently that we have a potential second level connection to Brandon Flowers, who's the lead singer of the Killers. If you, anybody else knows him at all, just tell him about Tangle. We just got to talk to him. I think that's the best pop music writer of the last 30 years. But that's maybe a second a conversation for another day.

[Will Kabak]

That's an Ari and John episode for sure.

[Jonathan Fields]

Love that John is visibly holding his tongue right now, fighting.

[Madison H.]

I'm trying not to let this pod go on forever.

[Jonathan Fields]

That's. You have to edit it.

[Ari Weitzman]

Maybe that's maybe a good, a good way of transitioning. It's been a, we had in the show notes 15 minutes max to talk about this. So it's been 22, which is kind of, I think, par for the course for us. So we've only gone seven minutes over. That's pretty good. Um, so thanks to John for joining us, thanks to Magdalena for joining us. And we'll hear from you too, a little bit later when we do our grievances. Thank you.

[Madison H.]

Thank you.

[Ari Weitzman]

We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

[Kandi Burruss]

Holiday shopping is here and Amazon Live has got you covered. Shop for the perfect gift from the comfort of your home with Amazon Live's shoppable video experience. Discover the hottest products from influencers and shop while you watch this season. Join Kandi Burris from Real Housewives in her holiday Amazon Live series Generation Face off, where Kandi, her mom mama Joyce and daughter Riley share their favorite stockings stuffers and go to gifts across fashion, beauty and more. Watch and shop new episodes of candy series Generation Face off now by going to Amazon.com candylive that's Amazon.com candylive For a limited time, use promo code candylive for $5 off an eligible product featured on the first episode of the series. That's K A N D I L I V E. Promotion expires on December 25, 2024. Limited supply of goods. Terms and conditions apply. For full promotion terms and conditions go to Amazon.com candyterms hi, this is Farnoosh Tarabi, host of the Webby winning podcast Sow Money. If you're aiming for a goal, be it saving for a house, growing your family or retiring life makes it difficult to stay the course. But with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Having the bull at your back helps your whole financial life move with you. So when your plans change, Merill's with you every step of the way. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merill, a Bank of America company what would you like the Power to do Investing Involves Risk Merrill Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated Registered Broker Dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member SIPC.

[Ari Weitzman]

All right, so that was a fun visit from two people who we don't normally get to hear on the Tangle Pod. So yeah, I think there's a lot to think about, a lot to talk about from our colleagues, but I think maybe we should transition to our second game here. Will you feeling ready?

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, I am super excited for this one.

[Ari Weitzman]

All right, so we're bringing back something that Isaac brought to the podcast by way of Bill Simmons, who he refers to as the Pod father. Somebody who's a very well respected or at the very least largely listen to podcasters. Somewhat controversial in the sports talk world, Bill Simmons is a legend. He has this game called yes, no, maybe where he likes to give out a prediction of what could happen in the future to anybody who he's doing his podcast with or to himself and answer the question, is this going to happen in the future? Yes, no, or maybe? So a little bit of a take on that with our topic here, which is the Department of Government Efficiency or doge, which is the sort of extra governmental contracted apart department that's going to be working closely according to Donald Trump and the co chairs that he appointed to lead it with the federal government to try to eliminate waste and make the government more efficient. The co chairs that were announced for that are Vivek Varamaswamy and Elon Musk. They recently penned an opinion in the Wall Street Journal giving their details at a high level for what they expect to do with the Department of Government Efficiency, which abbreviates to doge, which is commonly referred to as doge. My bias coming into this is that I think that's a very ridiculous name. I have a hard time seeing past that. I think a lot of times Musk has a tendency towards jokey ness, which a lot of people find endearing for things that involve people's livelihoods and the federal government and other high level executive stuff. I'm not as charmed by it, so I'm a little off put by that kind of thing off jump. So that's something that I'm thinking coming into this. But just so everybody hears that bias before we get into the game, give you the chance to give a little bit of a reaction to that too. Will, before we get started, if you have any thoughts.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, I share that. I mean, I know a number of people who work in the federal government who work in jobs that conceivably could be affected by some of what Musk and Ramaswamy are proposing. That said, I think I also find myself generally amenable to the idea of targeting waste inefficiency in the general sense in the government. I think it's probably true to say there's a lot that we could be doing that we're not. So I respect some of the impulse behind this push. However, the people who are in charge of it, particularly Musk, give me pause that it will be enacted in a responsible way.

[Ari Weitzman]

So let's start with that. So let's maybe go back and forth two at a time. I'll give you two, you give me two, and we'll just go from there.

[Will Kabak]

Great.

[Ari Weitzman]

So let's start with the very appointment of Ramaswamy and Musk as co heads. Yes, you love it. No, you hate it. Maybe we'll see what happens.

[Will Kabak]

Yes and no. Yes on Vivek, but not maybe.

[Ari Weitzman]

Okay.

[Will Kabak]

I don't know if that's a maybe. I'm a yes on one and no on the other. Gotcha. Yes on Vivek. I find him to be a very interesting political figure and I think he's going to be a figure in our politics for a long time. If it was just him doing this, I would be far more intrigued and open minded about some of the things that are being proposed just because I don't. He doesn't have a governing record. You know, his rise to prominence is tied to the book that he wrote and his run in the Republican primary last year. I think he's somebody who comes to his positions honestly enough, even if there are aspects of the way he communicates them, that is grating. But he's somebody who I still have an open mind about and I'm always interested to hear him talk and do long form interviews. Musk, I would have said that about in the past. But just to put it simply, I don't consider him to be a very serious person anymore, despite the fact that he works on very serious things and is the leader of some very serious companies. But just as somebody who's followed him on Twitter for a long time and has sort of tracked his dissension into what you referenced, which is just being like constantly communicating in memes and jokes, he's somebody who I am much more worried about heading up an initiative like this.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I think I share those perspectives. I think that's well said on Ramaswamy. I don't have a whole lot to add to that, so I'll let you have the last word there. I think you said that well with Musk. I think I'm a little bit of a maybe there. I think the idea of co heads for the Department of Government efficiency is just comedy and maybe it's better to have a couple people working through a consensus model. But it seems like if we want to cut it efficiency or cut inefficiency, cut waste, get one of them out of there maybe. But the reason why I'm maybe on Musk is maybe it's a little bit selfish, but I think he's showing a tendency in the last couple years to hyper fixate on things that are maybe less important but are important to him. Like memes of Twitter trying to weigh in on election interference in Pennsylvania, then dropping in when Trump won. Before that when he was at Tesla getting really fixated on the cybertruck model which was rolled out. Whereas Tesla has a lot of super profitable other models of vehicles and they're doing really well. The reason why I'm optimistic is that I think his for selfish reasons is that his company that I think is the most important is Starlink. And when he's focused on other stuff that means he's going to give less attention to it. And I think that's good for Starlink. Yeah, well, and I'm high on that technology.

[Will Kabak]

I'm curious Starlink over Space X.

[Ari Weitzman]

Personally. Yeah, I think the reach of rural digital Internet access access is a game changer. But I mean that's, that's a concern with Space X. Honestly is do we want somebody who would be a government contractor to be working with the government because Space X is contracted for spaceflights? And that's, that's another strike that I think is fair to talk about with Musk here. But let's move on to the second thing, which is reduction in headcount at the federal government. So I'm just going to quote from this Ramaswamy and Musk article in the Wall Street Journal directly and just get your yes, no, maybe response to it. So quote, A drastic reduction in federal regulations provides sound industrial logic for mass headcount reductions across the federal bureaucracy. DOGE intends to work with embedded appointees and agencies to identify the minimum number of employees required at an agency for it to perform its constitutionally permissible and statutory mandated functions. The number of employees to cut should be at least proportional to the number of federal regulations that are nullified. End quote. Yes.

[Will Kabak]

No, maybe I'm a maybe. I really think that these two are thinking about this question as if it's a technology company, the kind that they're familiar with. Musk famously bought Twitter, fired 80% of its employees, and used the fact that it didn't crash the site and the site continued to function as an example of you can cut massive bloat out of these huge organizations and be totally fine, and a lot of these workers are expendable. I've seen a lot of Twitter activity to that effect as well. People writing anonymously about I'm a coder at one of the major tech companies in Silicon Valley. I do less than 10 hours of work a week and I get paid $250,000. You know, stories to that effect. I think that kind of thinking in the world that Ramaswamy and Musk come from, they're applying to the federal government because they see another massive organization where there's. It's not always clear what jobs people have, how much they're contributing, whether they're really necessary, and thinking that A will apply to B. I think they're going to be surprised when they get in there if any of the stuff actually does get enacted by the differences in how the federal government operates. So I do like the idea of, hey, maybe we can identify a significant amount of jobs that aren't really necessary and cut those from the federal government. On paper, I'm not opposed to that, but I think the philosophy that they're approaching it with is not going to translate perfectly.

[Ari Weitzman]

I'm a maybe lean no on this just because my ax, the grind about federal inefficiencies when it comes to the bottom dollar, the bottom dollar figure is that it's mostly if you want to talk about cutting federal costs, you have to talk about the big line expenditures, which are Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the military. If you want to talk about calling the federal workforce and other departments, I'm sure there are efficiencies to gain there. But if you are looking at the big places to gain efficiencies, if you're not talking about those things, you're just not talking about it seriously. So I don't know, maybe that's something that they'll be looking into, but I'm a little skeptical.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, I worry too, about the idea that they've already come to the conclusion that this is necessary and that no matter what they find, when they do an audit of the federal agency or when they actually get in and take a close look at this, that they're going to reach the conclusion they want to reach, no matter what they find. Especially Musk. I just see his mind working that way so often on Twitter. It gives me pause too. So I would say I lean towards no as well, even if, again, on paper, I'm not opposed to the idea.

[Ari Weitzman]

All right, balls into your court, Will.

[Will Kabak]

All right. This was one that stood out to me in the Wall Street Journal op ed, and the quote was that Doge will work with legal experts embedded in government agencies, aided by advanced technology, which to me is alluding to artificial intelligence, to apply the rulings from the Supreme Court's Chevron decision to federal regulations enacted by such agencies. So again, just like a quick catch up, the Chevron deference being overturned by the Supreme Court, where the court is effectively instructed to no longer defer to federal agencies and how they make rules and that Congress needs to be the ones to pass these very specific rules about how they want laws to work. So using AI to suss out incongruities with Chevron after the latest Supreme Court ruling and make decisions about government from there. Yes. No, maybe.

[Ari Weitzman]

Maybe. Just because I really don't know what that means or what it looks like. And that's not to say that, oh, I'm confused about what Chevron means and I'm confused about what AI is. It just means I don't know what kind of guidance that would provide in an actionable sense. So I want to hear more about what this idea of, hey, Chevron deference was repealed. So that actually doesn't mean the federal agencies have more ability. It means they have less to enact regulations without the guidance of Congress. It means that we're going to have more of a level playing field when it comes to interpreting challenges to regulations from federal departments. So I think it just means they want to try to curtail more regulations and they want to try to have some sort of natural language processing model help say what regulations are going to be running afoul of legislation as it exists. I don't know that that's going to result in anything actionable. I think it needs to be oriented towards some goal. Like we want to reduce federal overhead, so we want to enact regulations that are going to require fewer people to enforce. If that's the test, the means mean less to me. So whether or not it's AI or like a person, you pay $80,000 a year to do it, I think that's more important is what Is the end goal of this? Is it to save cost and efficiency by trying to limit enforcement of regulations that we think are unnecessary? I think that's a bit of a different question.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah. Agree that it's not fleshed out in the slightest, at least what they've said so far. And my suspicion is throwing artificial intelligence in the description to make it sound buzzy, but we actually have no idea what it's going to look like in reality.

[Ari Weitzman]

All right, what's next for you?

[Will Kabak]

So the next one for me is from a FOX News report that came out today, which is that House Oversight Committee Chair James Comers, Republican from Kentucky, is planning to create the Delivering on Government Efficiency subcommittee to work alongside DOGE and implement potentially its recommendations via Congress, and that this subcommittee will be chaired by none other than Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Ari Weitzman]

No. Yeah, that's. I'd seen that report, too. Again, if my largest concern coming into this is seriousness over meme ability, you could not have selected a single worse person in the House of Representative to indicate seriousness than Marjorie Taylor Greene. I don't have a whole lot more to add on that other than to say if we're creating extra governmental or quasi governmental federal departments that are aimed at reducing waste, which, again, I think this is something Isaac said, too, is a little contradictory at its heart with trying to cut down on the government doing something by creating more work, maybe that's something that's going to be you do this effort once and then it's useful and then it's done. Sure. But there are interconnections at play that are going to get larger. So there being a House subcommittee now we're talking about diverting legislators resources and their time and their thoughts towards interacting with this agency. I think that's going to be less efficient than having our legislators directly represent us by enacting legislation that's popular with their constituencies. I'm sort of, maybe it's a vanilla, boring institutionalist take, but I'm of the opinion that that model is pretty good and that we should try to do more to get out of the way of people legislating than add another hurdle to it. And that's, that's my thought.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, I agree with that. I think if DOGE ends up working like an interest group, you know, where they're just very publicly lobbying for their findings and their positions, then that's fine. I mean, then they kind of just join the ranks of lobbyists and interest groups that advocate for their position positions. Maybe they have a little bit more influence by virtue of who's running it. But that seems to me like within the normal bounds of how our government works. I think this subcommittee idea, it's like you said, the non seriousness of Marjorie Taylor Greene and also the fact that she just has no record of being able to shepherd legislation through the House or rally people even on her own side behind her legislation or her initiatives. It almost is like we're just putting somebody on this to pacify the online right and make it seem like we're doing something. But it's almost like Comer saying this is not a serious thing.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yep. I think I'm with that. So Ball's back in my court. Going to go with this report from Fox Business that the Department of Government Efficiency is reportedly considering developing a mobile app to make it easier for taxpayers to file their returns for free. Yes. No, maybe.

[Will Kabak]

Yes. Yes. I think that's an idea most people are behind. I mean, I think we're seeing that effort already underway by the irs.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right.

[Will Kabak]

They rolled out this program to a similar effect to a limited number of people this year and they're planning to expand it in the coming year. I mean, on a personal level, I would love the idea of a program like that. And I think it's as simple as that. I think that's one of their better ideas.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I agree. I'm optimistic about it. I understand there's reasons to be concerned, one being philosophically, if you're saying we want to create a council or government efficiency Bureau or a DOGE that's trying to limit government involvement, this is definitively taking something that's been the purview of the free market and moving it to the government. But I do think it is something that on net would be more efficient. If it's something that's rolled out correctly, I should be able to pay my taxes in a way that's low overhead and the government is going to be the recipient of that. So they should be the ones that are making that easier for me. I think that's something I'm optimistic about as well. And I'd like to see that moved forward with.

[Will Kabak]

Yep, yep. Same page.

[Ari Weitzman]

We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

[Kandi Burruss]

Stop over in Qatar and enjoy pristine beaches and vibrant souks. Relax in a 5 star hotel from just $48 per night. Go to visit qatar.com stopover terms apply. Holiday shopping is here and Amazon Live has got you covered. Shop for the perfect gift from the comfort of your home with Amazon Live's shoppable video experience. Discover the hottest products from influencers and shop while you watch this season. Join Kandi Burris from Real Housewives in her holiday Amazon Live series Generation Face off, where Candy, her mom, Mama Joyce and daughter Riley share their favorite stocking stuffers and go to gifts across fashion, beauty and more. Watch and shop new episodes of Candy series Generation Face off now by going to Amazon.com candylive that's Amazon.com candylive for a limited time use promo code candylive for $5 off an eligible product featured on the first episode of the series. That's K A N D I L I V E promotion expires on December 25, 2024. Limited supply of goods Terms and conditions apply for full promotion terms and conditions go to Amazon.com candyterms what makes a great pair of glasses At Warby Parker, it's all the invisible extras without the extra cost. Their designer quality frames start at $95 including prescription lenses plus scratch resistant, smudge resistant and anti reflective coatings and UV protection and free adjustments for life. To find your next pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact lenses, or to find the Warby Parker store nearest you, head over to warbyparker.com that's warbyparker.com.

[Ari Weitzman]

I have one more and then we'll give you one or two more. I know you got to run, but real quick, this is my last one which is giving or moving Federal Agency Headquarters out of Washington dc. So that's something that came out. I'm just going to paraphrase it directly. Quoting it from the article is a little bit awkward, but we've seen this notion before. Every federal agency's headquarters are in D.C. agencies like the Bureau of Land Management, most of their land is out west. So critics have asked on the right in recent years. But actually if you go back years before a decade or ish or more, it's been somewhat bipartisan, if not something we've seen on the left at times, which is to move these agencies headquarters to other cities. It'll help spur this is the theory. It'll help spur economic development in those areas and then spread out some of the brain concentration of the public sphere or the quote unquote swamp. Get that spread out across the landmass. What do you think about that idea?

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, I'm maybe leaning towards a yes. I think all of the arguments in support of it that you just described resonate with me and make sense. My concern about how this would look in reality is that the movers and shakers and the people with power within these agencies would still just end up being pulled to D.C. for most of the time. And so maybe you would have the lower level staffers who are in these other cities and are mostly based out of that. But would it just create an unnecessary hurdle for the people who are actually running these agencies because they still have to travel to D.C. to do business for the majority of their time. So that's what's my. That would be my hesitation.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I understand that. I think when I've read criticisms about this idea before, I've heard about how this is going to be a big upheaval for families and people who do a lot of their business in D.C. it's more effective for them. It's going to be a huge hurt for the people that are career government servants who have been doing this work and have set up lives in dc. I get that. I think there's going to be costs and benefits to everything. I think I just see the long term benefits as being a little bit worth it. Not that I don't have sympathy for the cost that those civil servants would have to pay in that regard, but I think that's a little bit better than we're going to ax these whole agencies. And not saying that that's the choice that we have. It's obviously more complicated than that. But I'm more optimistic about this plan than I am pessimistic. I think for me I'm leaning yes. But I know we have a couple minutes left of whale time, so I want to give you the last word here.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, so this is another one that came from the op ed DOGE will help end federal overspending by taking aim at the $500 billion plus in annual federal expenditures that are unauthorized by Congress or being used in ways that Congress never intended. An example that they cite is $535 million a year to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, 1.5 billion dol billion for grants to international organizations, $300 million to progressive groups like Planned Parenthood.

[Ari Weitzman]

I kind of like refer to above. I guess if you're really looking to try to cut government waste, this isn't the line item where you're going to find most of it. I think it's a lot of issues that are popular on the right and I understand the reasoning for it. I think the progressive inclusion and identity issues are something that are lightning rods for criticism. I think I'm a maybe about that being room for efficiency, but in terms of broad scale gains at the federal governmental level, that's just not where you're going to get it. So I'm maybe leaning now.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah. I mean, that's just the objective truth.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right?

[Will Kabak]

You look at the budget, you look at the size of it, the size of the. Of the money that would have to.

[Ari Weitzman]

Cut 500 million sounds like a lot, but there are 1000 million in a billion and there are 1000 billions in a trillion. And our government is measured on trillions.

[Will Kabak]

Right. I mean, didn't Tangle made about $500 million last week?

[Jonathan Fields]

Right.

[Ari Weitzman]

If only from your lips to God's ears, it's not that much. All right, so with that, we're going to head to our grievance zone.

[Kandi Burruss]

The airing of Grie.

[Madison H.]

You gather your family around and tell.

[Ari Weitzman]

Them all the ways they have disappointed.

[Madison H.]

You over the past year.

[Ari Weitzman]

So we're going to bring John and Magdalena back for a sort of giant tangle family complaining session in honor of Thanksgiving week. Any of you guys have anything you feel like you just got to get out out of you right now before you move on. Nobody wants to go first. I'll go first then. So my grievance is that I'm going to start with the most on brand revelation about myself that you guys remember. It's a safe space, so keep the ribbing to a minimal. I'm having a rough go of it with my online invite only trivia league this season. Oh, boy. I've missed a couple questions that I feel like, you know, it's not on me a bit. There's the style of question that I just want to complain about a little bit where they will give you something that sounds like the thing that they're going to ask you about. Like if you know the general thing that they're getting at, it should be enough to answer the question. But then they zag on you and it's something completely different or something that doesn't quite get at the thing they're asking. So here's the question that I missed. It's a geography question which is very much my bread and butterfly. So it's frustrating. The question was the city of Sri Jawadanaparakate is a national administrative capital, which I know. I know that I know what capital it is. I know what country it's in. In a suburb of. What other city? No idea. Come on. I feel like just knowing what Sri Jawadanaparakate is and what country it's the capital of ought to be enough, but it's not. And I missed that one because do you guys know what the other city it's a suburb of is? Any guests?

[Jonathan Fields]

I Would say Bombay or definitely not Delhi.

[Madison H.]

If I had to guess, I'd say Jakarta.

[Ari Weitzman]

It is the capital of Sri Lanka, so we're in the right region.

[Jonathan Fields]

Colombo.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah. And then it's not enough. Sorry. Because the answer to the question is Colombo, a city that it's the larger city in Sri Lanka. Maybe I'm not as much enough of a geography buff that I didn't know that, but Big X. Missed it. Missed the question. Lost the day because of it. So. Boo.

[Will Kabak]

Ouch. Ouch.

[Jonathan Fields]

Who creates these questions?

[Ari Weitzman]

I think that's one of those questions you're not allowed to ask. The creator is a mysterious person or persons runs this invite only trivially called Learned League, which I know obnoxious name, but the person's name is the Commissioner. Like, we don't really know who they are. And I'm sure it's several people and they ask great questions. It's a phenomenal experience. But this one type of trivia question just like, just annoys me. It just grinds my gears. I.

[Will Kabak]

Are you typically a top performer in this league?

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah. So this league is broken up into several different rundles, which. So nerdy rundle is the word for a ring of a ladder. And rather than say level, they call it rundles and it is divided vertically by rundle and then horizontally, randomly by just randomness. So you're within a division because there's so many people that play it. And then within your division, you have a rundle. The rundles go from rookie at the bottom and then you get placed into the other rundles from how you perform in your rookie season and then goes from E up to A. My father is an A. He is usually in the front runner for his rundle and then often gets invited to, like the Commissioner circle, like end of season tournament of champions, which he hates because he has to do it, like, live. And he needs the whole day to think about it and just helps him. And then he'll get questions in the craziest way right as the day goes on, which is also frustrating. I most recently was in B, so I got promoted up to B. I had a great season and then I had a terrible season in B and I got demoted back to C. So I'm in C now, which is fine. It's good. It's good for people who are good at trivia. I'm slightly above average people who can.

[Will Kabak]

Identify capitals but not suburbs.

[Ari Weitzman]

That, unfortunately, is my rating. Yes. Enough about me, though. If anybody has anything they want to.

[Jonathan Fields]

Go with next, well, I was just Going to note before I rudely interrupted John was that. I know, because I'm sure someone's going to write in and be like, my first answer was Bombay. I know it's not Bombay anymore, it's Mumbai. So just throwing it out there. I am aware that the official name is Mumbai, but still people call Bombay.

[Ari Weitzman]

So yeah, Will's throwing up the cancel sign. Sorry it's all over for you.

[Jonathan Fields]

Canceled an India. We didn't even make it there.

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, yeah, mine's quick. So I live in Brooklyn. I go to the local budget gym, Blink Fitness, which recently entered bankruptcy. Fun fact. And it honestly is a great gym. It's not too crowded for a budget gym. All the stuff works. There's no complaints about the gym itself. Increasingly, though, there have been a, and I don't know what the term a flock, a fleet, a group of jump ropers who have been coming to the gym in the morning. When I go, I go pretty early in the morning and basically commandeering the entire like cardio stretching area that's, that's available to the entire gym. And like jump roping number one. Like it takes up a lot of physical space because they're like using the full jump ropes. And it also just creates this like low level stress when you're anywhere near their vicinity because it's this like constant whooshing sound and also the slapping on the ground at like a high pace. And so, you know, this morning for instance, I was stretching in the cardio areas pretty early, so there wasn't many people there. And three jump ropers come in and all they do is jump rope. They don't work out. They just jump rope indoors at 6 in the morning and got incredibly close to me while I was like stretched, like, while I was like on my, on my back doing stretches, standing up, doing stretches, laying down, doing stretches. And I'm feeling the air from the jump rope like rustling my hair. Like they're that close to me. And it reminds me a little bit like there's almost like a soullessness to it because they're not interacting with each other, they're not talking to each other. They just have their earbuds in. They have these little like programs on their phone that they're following to do like different kinds of jump roping. And they just jump rope for 45 minutes. Nobody can use the space. It's like three people taking up 75% of the space. And it is a truly unfortunate development because I use that space every day and it's increasingly difficult too. So that's my.

[Ari Weitzman]

I love the combination of Jim bro and care and energy that you're given to this grievance. And I also love that it started with. I have a quick one. Here we are.

[Will Kabak]

3. First of all, first of all, it's like, it's like you don't need to jump rope indoors. You don't need to. Like, when I'm in Manhattan, people are jump roping on the, like outside all.

[Ari Weitzman]

The time in Manhattan. Just up and down the streets. They're jump rope. Yep.

[Will Kabak]

Outside boxing gyms that they. They jump rope out on the street because it's New York. It's a lot of close, confined space. Like, you don't have these vast gyms or these vast spaces. And jump roping is one of the things I feel like you could do outdoors. And there's a lot of stuff indoors that you can only do indoors at the gym. So it does feel like they're commandeering a lot of space. But yeah, that's me.

[Madison H.]

That feels fair. It's not like you're going to take the bench outside and start doing that, you know?

[Will Kabak]

Yeah, I would if I could. I would if I could to get away from the damn jump ropers.

[Madison H.]

God.

[Jonathan Fields]

What's your plan of action here? I mean, you just gonna sit through it? Are you gonna write a change or petition? I bet you you can pick the people on board.

[Ari Weitzman]

Petition will.

[Will Kabak]

I feel like if I got put myself in a position where they hit me one time, you know, like where I got struck one time, then I might be able to just like unleash on them and like make them feel the hostility that I can't yet because they haven't actually done anything wrong. So I'm like waiting for the day that I could be doing core exercises and be nudging over into the jump roper space and get hit and just play it up. Well, you're like, I should never come back again.

[Jonathan Fields]

Well, I think if you did that, then probably the gym owners would kick him out because it would be a liability. Right. Like you're threatened to sue and you're pretty good. You know, I've seen you do the walk and fall and.

[Madison H.]

Maybe, maybe safely at that time as she's developing a plan for kicking out people.

[Will Kabak]

I am sorry if people enjoy jump ripping.

[Ari Weitzman]

I mean, like, personally, you're sorry if people enjoy. Not that you're sorry to those who you may have offended who enjoy jump ripping. You're sorry if people enjoy jump ripping?

[Will Kabak]

There are so many cardio machines in the gym. There's such an assortment of cardio machines in the gym. I do feel like you really want to jump rope, go to the park, go out onto the sidewalk like it's New York. People do weird stuff out on the streets. Like it wouldn't be that big of a deal to go do a jump rope sesh outside your apartment again. Maybe, maybe I'm a little out of pocket, but that's the way I've been feeling.

[Madison H.]

I think that feels fair. Maybe not all of us colluding to kick everybody out of the gym or the jump ropers, but the rest of.

[Jonathan Fields]

The time, you could get it done. You could with a small. I would take one for the team, get it done.

[Will Kabak]

I would feign concussion off of a jump rope strike.

[Ari Weitzman]

Abide any more of the. Just for our own liability reasons, the entrapment schemes that are being vocalized here. I think fun grievance, a lot to go over, but let's. Let's jump and skip it on over to John here. If that's not too close to you, Will.

[Will Kabak]

Sorry, that feels a little on the nose after what I've just dumped on you all.

[Ari Weitzman]

Oh, no. And he's going to feign concussion now. Sorry, John, the floor is yours.

[Madison H.]

All good, all good. I feel your grievances. I'm here for you. All right, I've got a little bit of a double grievance here. It's the same story, but I'm not sure who to blame. It's either United Airlines or Newark Airport. All right, here it is. So right after the election, I decided to bring my mom out to where I live in Colorado. She hasn't been here before. She doesn't really fly. She's afraid to fly. Has not been on a plane in 20 years. So she was like, if I'm going to come out, you got to take me out there. All good, right? I'm like, no problem. I'm already there. I go get her. We go to Newark Airport, and The flight's at 5:00. We get there at 2:00 just to kind of ease her in, go get lunch, have a good time or whatever. 4:00 comes around and they announce a delay. Like, okay, well, delays happen. No problem. 4:30 comes around, another delay. 5:30 comes around, another delay. So we've been delayed three times already. It's starting to get weird. My mom's like, is this normal? I'm like, it happens. So we're good. We'll just, you know, we're going to get on the plane In a minute. So it's no problem. Get on the plane. We're then we're told, like, while we're on the plane, there's some kind of problem with air traffic control at Newark Airport. It's going to take a long time to taxi down. And. But by the time we do, we'll, you know, we'll take off. It's going to be all good. Taxi down. Next plane to take off. And they come over the loudspeaker and they say, so really sorry to tell you this, but there's a problem with the air conditioning on the plane. So we have to turn the plane back around. We go back. I'm not going to tell this entire complete story because it's so damn long. The short version of this is we got on three planes and deboarded all of them. And from 2:00 until 1:30 in the morning, we weren't allowed to get a refund or a ticket or anything else. They would not do anything. At 1:30 in the morning, after getting on the third plane, they were like, yeah, we're canceling the flight.

[Jonathan Fields]

So your poor mom. That would be so scary for someone that, like, doesn't like to fly in general, to have that happen. And she fled. She ended up flying, right.

[Madison H.]

So the next day, we did get on a plane. There was one more delay.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, my gosh.

[Madison H.]

But we did take off. We did get through. And on the other end of it, by the way, here in Denver, we had our first snowstorm. So we flew through that, too. My mom is a trooper. I don't know how she did it. Me, I gave her, like, outs. I was like, it's all good. Like, we can rearrange this flight and do it another time. She's like, I want to see my granddaughter. I'm going out there. We're doing this. I'm like, mom, you're still taking me to school. Still a trooper. So that's the. That's the good side of the grievance part. Bad side is what's up. Newark Airport, you got to get it together here.

[Ari Weitzman]

And this is one of your native sons here, John. Tried and true. New Jersey are, too, getting betrayed.

[Madison H.]

That's what I'm saying, you know, Like, I think they dumped something like, you know, I don't know, some hundreds of millions of dollars into Newark Airport. It's a really nice airport now. They got great restaurants and everything like that. How are these planes backed up? I really don't understand.

[Will Kabak]

That's fact.

[Jonathan Fields]

And you were flying, not Spirit which filed for bankruptcy, which is surprising.

[Madison H.]

Yeah, United, baby. I was saying, come on, you are one of the top three. You're supposed to, like, have this together. That's what I'm saying. I don't know. Who do I blame here, United or Newark?

[Jonathan Fields]

United. United, I think.

[Ari Weitzman]

I don't know.

[Jonathan Fields]

The cosmos also was there. At any point, did you Google rental cars? One way to see if you could drive your poor mom out there? Because that's what I would be doing.

[Madison H.]

I. This is gonna sound rough. I love my mama. She's like a hero of mine. I'm not doing, you know, 30 hours in the car with my mom. I'm not doing that.

[Jonathan Fields]

But you pretty much did 30 hours with her in an airport.

[Madison H.]

It seems like that part, though. That part. You know, we could get, like, a little space. You know, I went. I walked over to get a coffee while she sat down. Some lovely people talked to her. But, like, you know, 30 hours in a car ride, and, like, within the first 30 minutes, she's already told me, like, seven different ways I could be a better driver. Yeah, I can't do that.

[Ari Weitzman]

Would you rather sit next to Shaq on a plane or your mom?

[Jonathan Fields]

That's a good one.

[Will Kabak]

The callback king.

[Madison H.]

Wow. Nice.

[Jonathan Fields]

You gotta answer that, Louis.

[Ari Weitzman]

Is the answer. Very tactful.

[Madison H.]

Moving on.

[Jonathan Fields]

But only one might be listening, so you gotta say Shaq. You refuse to sit next to Shaq.

[Will Kabak]

Good looking up.

[Ari Weitzman]

Exactly.

[Madison H.]

No Shaq. I got you, baby. We're sitting next to each other. We'll be partners.

[Will Kabak]

We're good.

[Ari Weitzman]

All right, Mags, you promised a lot of heat here, and you're. You're anchoring us, so you got to bring it home.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I do. I have. You know, you got to bring me on more often because I have a lot of grievances I need to air. I have, like, two. I'll list them from kind of least important to more important, and maybe I won't even get to the last one, but. But the first one is I. At the beginning of this year, I subscribed to a print magazine. I'm not going to name which magazine, because I feel like that will give away some bias, but I did it on the recommendation of Ari, our managing editor.

[Ari Weitzman]

I have an idea which one it was.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yes. Just really good reads. And every single print edition is late. And at the beginning, it's like. Well, it's a four to six week timeline. I expect the first ones to be backed up. I got two at the same time, but now it's just Like a month behind. So I'm getting like, I just got the edition for October like now, and it's a monthly mag. And it's not that it's super time sensitive because a lot of the reads are. Can be kind of evergreen, so to speak. But it's just, you know, not a lot of people are jumping to paid. And you promised me this product and now it's late. So that's like one grievance that I have that just kind of. I already don't have a lot of time to read. I always like, I brought a stack of them with me when we went out to Philly for the election and I went through one or two of them, but I really don't have enough time to read. So come on, get it together. So that's one grievance that I have.

[Ari Weitzman]

Okay, well, that's one grievance you have, you said in a very ominous tone.

[Jonathan Fields]

Okay, the other, I'll try and be quick. The other one is I just visited the great state of Florida. Shout out to Donald Trump again. It was a great experience. I especially loved the warm weather, but the resort fees that are tacked on to every single hotel stay was just a racket. So I am complaining about the resort fees that are just plain crazy in this great state of Florida. And they package it as you're paying for the amenities of the hotel that you're staying at that you1 can't opt out of. So you can't. It's like not an optional thing. So they should just include it in the base price of the room. Two, a lot of times you don't know until you get to the place and your checking out that you have to pay for this thing and it bumps up the price by like 30% a lot of the times. And yeah, I just think that we should be able to opt out of it. Like if I don't want to use the pool or your pool towels, I guess then. And wifi. WI fi was like one of the things, like we'll include WI fi with it. It's like it is 2024. Wi Fi is included everywhere.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think I have maybe some good news for you, but maybe it's too late and maybe this is dated a little bit. I found an article from a Fox affiliate in Tampa Bay from a couple years ago that quotes the Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody at the time in Florida. And she said that in some cases, if you've already booked the room, you can fight the charge and you won't have to pay she said, quote, in fact, there are numerous instances someone said, I didn't know. I didn't use the facilities and the ones that they were charged for. And generally speaking, they've been amenable to that. But nonetheless, they need to be fair and disclosed to consumers. So you can maybe fight some of these resort fees if they're for amenities that you're claiming you're not using.

[Madison H.]

And I thought that was like federal, too. Is it maybe state by state that you have to include resort fees in the total price and you have to specifically say what they are?

[Ari Weitzman]

I don't know. I don't know. I know that recently President Biden passed or was, I think it was trying to pass some legislation about. And maybe I need to read up on this again because I'm not super. I can't really recall the details, but was pushing an initiative to try to make it easier to cancel subscriptions that are one click to join. I don't think that that's the same, but I don't know what legislation's out there about, you know, transparency of fees. It's probably state by state.

[Jonathan Fields]

My microphone is off, I think, so I don't know how much more I'm gonna talk. I can't turn it back.

[Ari Weitzman]

Last grievance from Magdalena is her microphone's now switched off again and she's getting to join our tradition of tech help here on the Sunday that we're hoping to, to leave behind, maybe in the new year.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, my last preference is just. And I, I think I'll save it. But I'm just going to briefly say the last prev is local news. Local news channels using press releases as their entire article. And I'm just going to leave it at that.

[Ari Weitzman]

There you have it.

[Jonathan Fields]

I know, I know resources are, I know resources are slim. I know the media scape out there. We all know it. But at least try and put some critical thinking into your pieces.

[Ari Weitzman]

There you go, Magdalena. Bo from Tangle News says if you are a small media affiliate, try harder. That's great. I think with that, we'll say thank you all for joining us on our Thanksgiving bickering episode of Tangle. With all of us here minus Isaac goes away. And we appreciate you all for listening, appreciate everybody who voted for us for the Shorty Award. And we will be back in your inbox on Monday for the subscribers and back in your ears in the podcast shortly after. So thanks for joining us for another edition. Take care.

[Madison H.]

Peace.

[Ari Weitzman]

Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Wall the script is edited by our.

[Will Kabak]

Managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed.

[Ari Weitzman]

By Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager.

[Will Kabak]

Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75.

[Ari Weitzman]

And if you're looking for more from.

[Will Kabak]

Tangle, Please go to readtangle.com and check out our.