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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
Ryan Reynolds here for I guess my hundredth mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, don't. No, no, no. I mean, honestly, when I started this, I thought I only have to do like four of these. I mean, it's unlimited to Premium Wireless for $15 a month. How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming. Here, give it a try@mintmobile.com switch whenever you're ready.
- [00:22]
Unknown Voiceover
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- [00:30]
Isaac Saul
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- [01:28]
Unknown Voiceover
Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate. And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
- [02:19]
Isaac Saul
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we are going to be talking about Cash Patel, the nominee to be the director of the FBI. Pretty interesting story here, both because it's unusual for a president to replace the FBI director and because Kash Patel is not your typical potential FBI director. We're going to talk about what's going on, how we got here and of course, I'm going to share some of my view. Before we do though, I just want to give you a heads up on two things. First of all, we are hiring for two roles. There are applications that are still open for a full time Philadelphia based position to be the assistant to the editor. That's to work alongside me, Isaac. And there's a link to that application in today's newsletter and in the episode description of this podcast. If you have some kind of journalism or multimedia background or you have experience as an assistant to executives and you want to get into journalism, this job might be for you. Again, it is Philadelphia based, so you have to be able to come into the Philadelphia office, be willing to move here or, you know, just get here a few days a week if you are living in New Jersey or maybe outside Philly. But that's the story. There's a link to it in today's episode description. The applications there are open until mid December, but I'm already interviewing people, so if you have not yet applied, you should do that soon. Second, we are now also hiring a writing and research intern for January to June of 2025. This is somebody who's organized, independent, hopefully a college student or a recent college graduate trying to get their start in media. This is a job to help edit, research, draft our newsletters. It is a paid position. It's remote. It's about 15 hours a week of and it's a good way to get your foot in the door if you want to work here and if you don't know what you're going to do yet. It's a good way to get some experience in the media industry. There are details about that internship also in today's episode description. All right, that is it for the job openings. The one other thing that I wanted to say was thank you. We raised over $6,000 for double trellis, the organization I promoted yesterday for giving Tuesday. I really appreciate everybody and their donations and taking the time to do that. If you're one of the people who did, thank you very much. It was super appreciated. That money is going to go directly toward feeding people in need here in Philly and training folks who spent time in prison who are looking to reenter the job force. So your money was well spent. Your donations go into a great place. I really appreciate it. If you missed that yesterday, a reminder, you can go to doubletrellis.org that's T R E L L I S dot org to donate. With that, I'm going to send it over to John for our quick hits in today's main story, and I'll be back with my take and our listener question today.
- [05:29]
Thank you, Isaac, and welcome everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, South Korea's opposition party submitted a motion to impeach President Yoon Suk Yeol one day after he declared martial law, which lawmakers voted to end hours later. Number two, Representative John Duarte conceded to Adam Gray in the final uncalled House race in California, giving Democrats a net gain of one seat in the chamber. Republicans will retain control of the House with 220 seats to Democrats 215. Number three, President elect Donald Trump's transition team signed a memorandum of understanding with the Justice Department, allowing the team to submit names of Trump appointees for background checks and security clearances. Number four, China announced a ban on the export of certain rare minerals to the US that have military and technological applications. The move follows a series of export controls on chip manufacturing equipment and software announced by the Biden administration earlier this week. And number five, Chad Chronister, sheriff of Hillsborough County, Florida, withdrew himself from consideration as President Elect Trump's nominee to lead the U.S. drug Enforcement Administration. Separately, Trump is reportedly considering replacing Pete HEGSETH With Florida Governor Ron DeSantis as his pick for secretary of defense.
- [06:53]
Unknown Voiceover
Donald Trump has named Cash Patel as his pick for the FBI director, sparking controversy across Washington. His background includes work as a federal prosecutor as well as a public defender, but critics argue Patel lacks the experience needed to lead the nation's top law enforcement agency. Donald Trump rolled out perhaps his most bonkers one this weekend, Cash Patel, the conspiracy theorist who even William Barr, the.
- [07:18]
Isaac Saul
COVID up general, thought was too unhinged.
- [07:21]
Unknown Voiceover
To name to a deputy job in the AG's office.
- [07:25]
Isaac Saul
On Saturday, President Elect Trump announced the nomination of Kashyap Kash Patel as the new director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Patel is a former federal prosecutor who served in the White House during Trump's first term and is viewed as a strong ally of the President elect. For Patel to take over the position, current FBI Director Christopher Wray, who Trump also nominated, will either need to resign or be fired. As Wray is serving a 10 year appointment that began in 2017. Wray has not indicated whether he intends to resign. Patel began his career as a public defender before joining the National Security Division of the Justice Department, where he oversaw the prosecution of accused terrorists. He subsequently worked as an aide to former Representative Devin Nunes, notably authoring a report that criticized the FBI's investigation into Trump's campaign ties to Russia. President Elect Trump praised Patel for his efforts when announcing the nomination. Posting on Truth Social, he played a pivotal role in uncovering the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, standing as an advocate for truth, accountability and the Constitution. Trump added that Patel would work with Pam Bondi, his nominee for attorney general, to reform the FBI. Patel held several positions towards the end of Trump's first term, including chief of staff to Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller in November 2020, and was reportedly considered for deputy director of the FBI or Central Intelligence Agency. Additionally, he oversaw the Pentagon's transition process between the Trump and Biden administrations. After Trump left office, Patel authored three pro Trump children's books and joined the board of directors for Trump Media Technology Group. Patel is an outspoken critic of federal law enforcement, writing in his 2023 book Government Gangsters that the Justice Department requires a comprehensive house cleaning to address corruption and outlining a plan to fire at the top ranks of the FBI. He also said he would come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. These comments have raised concerns among Democrats that Patel will target elected officials and any media figures critical of Trump while weakening the FBI's intelligence capabilities. While many Republican senators have publicly supported the nomination, others have said they intend to rigorously vet his qualifications before casting their vote. Patel will need at least 50 Republican votes out of a possible 53 to be confirmed, assuming all Democrats vote against his nomination. Today, we'll explore reactions to Patel's nomination from the left and the right, and then Isaac's take.
- [10:03]
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [10:09]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood? So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mint mobile.com Switch $45.
- [10:34]
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- [11:16]
Isaac Saul
All right, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left opposes the nomination, arguing Patel is a dangerous pick on multiple fronts. Some frame Patel as a tool for Trump's plans for retribution in his second term. Others say Patel foreshadows how law enforcement agencies could change in the next four years. In the Washington Post, Ruth Marcus called Patel a dangerous and unqualified choice for the FBI. President elect Donald Trump's choice of uber loyalist Kash Patel to be FBI director is a hair on fire moment. Trump is poised to install a team of toadies at the Justice Department, a flotilla of his criminal defense lawyers, but most ominously, an attorney general, Pam Bondi, who has vowed that prosecutors will be prosecuted, and now with Patel, an FBI director who would add journalists to that list. Marcus said Republican senators, enough of them anyway, did their constitutional duty in balking at former Congressman Matt Gaetz, Trump's clannish first choice to serve as the nation's chief law enforcement officer. Now, unpleasant and politically perilous as it might be, they must stand up to Trump again. It's important to understand that a new president picking the FBI director of his preference is not the norm. It is an aberration and a dangerous one. Presidents are generally entitled to political appointees of their choosing, but the FBI director is supposed to be insulated from politics, marcus wrote. Never in the history of the FBI. It was created in 1908 as the Bureau of Investigation, has there been a director anything like Patel. He poses a double threat, both a crony of the president and an unstinting critic of the institution he has been tapped to lead. In Bloomberg, Barbara L. McQuaid said Cash Patel would use the FBI for Trump's revenge tour. Patel served in Trump's first administration in various roles, but has made his name mostly from his fierce loyalty to the 45th president. When Trump was accused of unlawfully retaining government documents after his presidency ended in 2021, Patel claimed to have witnessed Trump declassify them, McQuaid wrote. In addition to Patel's obsequious loyalty to Trump, he holds radical views about the agency he has been chosen to lead. Shortly after the November election, Patel said he would shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopen it the next day as a museum of the deep state. As a former career prosecutor, I worked closely with the FBI for almost 20 years. I know from that experience that the FBI operates under the Domestic Investigations Operations Guide, which requires investigations to be predicated on credible allegations and forbids the agency from opening investigations based on politics or First Amendment protected activity, Patel proposes to turn that mission on its head, McQuaid said. Patel's bad ideas don't end there. The former public defender and prosecutor also wants to strip the FBI of its intelligence mission, perhaps as payback for the investigation into Russia's role in the 2016 election. Patel would eliminate the FBI's role in counterintelligence investigations. Such a move would badly damage America's national security. In the Columbia Journalism Review, John Allsopp wrote, the story of Trump's plans for the FBI is bigger than one man. The FBI has been an instrument of personal power before, if not the president's, and has often shown itself to be no protector of journalists or First Amendment freedoms on which their work rests. In its older, darker days, but also more recently, we should be careful not to paint Patel as a pure perversion of righteous history. His nomination is a radical break in many respects, and his threats to go after journalists have been unusually explicit. But at least as far as press freedom goes, we should perhaps view him as less of a total departure than a potential rapid fire accelerant of concerning broader trends within the broader Justice Department. While it's accurate to depict Patel as a bomb thrower, he would be entering into a legal structure that already has immense power and only voluntary compunction not to wield it against reporters, alsop said. In this way, this story is already bigger than Patel and will remain so whether or not he gets confirmed to replace Ray. Trump himself has explicitly said that reporters who publish leaked information should go to jail. Whoever eventually leads his FBI may not have written a sycophantic children's book, but is likely to have to share this and related views or at least pay lip service to them. All right, that is it for what the left is saying. Which brings us to what the right is saying. The right is mixed on the nomination, with many saying Patel needs to earn his confirmation. Some praise the pick as a necessary move to shake up the FBI. Others say questions about Patel's qualifications are reasonable, but he deserves a fair hearing, The Washington examiner editorial board said the FBI needs reform, not retribution. The FBI is in desperate need of fundamental reform. President elect Donald Trump's nominee to run the bureau, Cash Patel promises to attempt that, but Patel has also said the Trump administration should go after political enemies, President Joe Biden's allies. Senators should therefore give this information the closest possible scrutiny and establish that despite some fiery past rhetoric, Patel understands, appreciates and respects the difference between reform and retribution. Before he's confirmed, Wray has failed to supply the transparency House Republicans have demanded from the agency and he should resign. Indeed, he has been obstructive, probably to protect the agency from unwelcome but highly necessary scrutiny, the board wrote. If Patel can show senators he is interested in reform, not retribution, and if he is confirmed, he should determinedly keep his promise. Voters do not want to see Joe Biden and his allies persecuted in a tit for tat fashion. The nation wants to see crime lowered, criminal migrant gangs arrested and deported and drug traffickers arrested and brought to justice. That should be the focus of the FBI, and the Senate should determine whether Patel intends to make it so. In Fox News, David Marcus called Patel the fumigator the FBI needs. What Patel can bring to the FBI is fairness, honesty, the actual blindfold that lady justice is supposed to wear. No good person should fear that. It should not threaten anything true or just, marcus said. What Patel does threaten is an FBI establishment and leadership, an array of men and women in tweed and twisting Ivy League degrees who have never been told no before. He may well say no when they seek to crush freedom. And well he should. Patel is not being put forth as FBI director to target enemies, but to take the target off of friends. And not just friends, but all of us. Patel's record suggests that he will use this power scarcely and judiciously when it comes to Americans expressing their beliefs and living their politics, that he will seek to punish crimes, not thoughts, marcus wrote. This is about the best we could ask for in an FBI director. No more political investigations, no more scores to settle. Just the fair and free execution of the law. There is every reason to believe that is exactly what Patel intends. In town hall, Derek Hunter criticized Democrats double standards for Trump nominees Are President and Elect Donald Trump's nominees conventional? The pundit class would lead you to believe that they are not, that they have no experience in the areas relevant to the positions they've been nominated to fill. That would be relevant information were at a standard used in the past used on Democrats as well, but it is not. In fact, not a single one of President Joe Biden's nominees received a no vote from a single Senate Democrat, no matter how unqualified they were for the job, hunter said. Flash forward to today in the nominees from Donald Trump, they exist in buzzword salad. Inexperienced, controversial, unqualified and Trump loyalist, the president appoints various positions in government with the advice and consent of The Senate. While the consent is not guaranteed, it's usually pretty damn close to certain. Republican senators should extend the same courtesy to the incoming president, hunter wrote. Donald Trump is a disruptor. So Democrats whining about Cash Patel not having previously worked in the FBI does not matter, as the last three heads of the FBI didn't work there before they were confirmed to run it. If the Senate finds something illegal in one of the nominees backgrounds, fine. Otherwise, extend Donald Trump the courtesy Democrats give to themselves and fight for his nominees expressly because the old order establishment is made uncomfortable by them. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take.
- [19:44]
All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take. The Cash Patel story is a great embodiment of an effect that I'm calling the Trump circularity. I don't know if that's quite the right term, but I'll try to neatly define it. The Trump circularity is the phenomenon of Trump doing some norm breaking thing that puts all of our political footing onto new ground that he then gets to define to his own political advantage. We often live in the Trump circularity and he is incredibly good at keeping us there. Take this example. In a simple sense, Trump is putting forward Cash Patel for FBI director because the current FBI director, Christopher Wray, raided Trump's Mar A Lago residence. Trump had a rocky relationship from the start with Christopher Wray, but this was the tipping point. Why did the FBI raid his Mar A Lago residence? Because Trump did the norm breaking thing of taking and then refusing to return classified documents, even lying about whether he had them in the first place. While the classified documents case never went to trial, we know this to be true. Trump took classified documents from the White House. And if you believe the very damning, very detailed Justice Department indictment, which I do, he lied about having them, lied about returning them, instructed people on his staff to move them around to evade detection, and then had his residence raided by the FBI when he refused to return them. We can argue about how severe the punishment should be for this kind of action by a president, but I don't think we can argue whether or not Trump did this norm breaking thing he did. And yes, this was different from what Joe Biden did with classified documents or what Hillary Clinton did with classified documents, or what Mike Pence did with classified documents. Once the news of the raid broke, we entered the Trump circularity. After forcing his FBI director's hand, Trump used the raid to claim he was a victim of political prosecution. Then he went before a judge he appointed in Florida whose series of inexplicable and eyebrow raising legal decisions effectively tanked the government's case. Now Trump is forcing his former pick for the FBI out because that person justifiably raided his home and is tapping someone he believes is so in the palm of his hand he'd never dare to act in a way that undermines him. I think it's important to trace this Trump circularity back to the start, because otherwise this pick feels understandable. What kind of president wouldn't force out an FBI director that raided his home? It makes total sense, but it would make no sense outside the Trump circularity. Remember, FBI directors serve 10 year terms. While only one has ever served for the full 10 years, it is extremely unusual for them to be fired or forced to resign. Indeed, it's only happened twice in some 50 years. As David Frum detailed, every president since Nixon has initially kept the FBI director on, with the exception of Bill Clinton, who only fired the FBI director from George H.W. bush's term after Bush's Justice Department issued a report on his ethical lapses. Which brings us back to Cash Patel. Let me start by saying that I don't fear many of the things you might have heard or seen in the news already, like Patel's supposed promise to shut down the FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C. in his full quote, which he made while riffing on a podcast, he clearly states that he wants to relocate FBI agents to, quote, go be cops and do their jobs across the country, which doesn't really sound like such a big deal to me. Furthermore, I support some of Patel's worldview and promises. For starters, he is right about much of the Russiagate narrative, and he helped mainstream the reality that the FBI relied far too much on the Steele dossier to acquire surveillance warrants on the Trump campaign. I've written extensively about all the things the media got wrong on Trump and Russia, and Patel was one of the first to bring some of it to light. Another reason Patel has called for moving agents out of Washington, D.C. is, in his words, to, quote, prevent institutional capture and curb FBI leadership from engaging in political gamesmanship. End quote. Fair enough. He also calls on Congress to force intelligence agencies into more transparency by threatening their funding. Which is smart, but as the Washington Examiner's editorial board put it, the FBI needs reform, not retribution. That's why it's important to remember where we are in the Trump circularity, because it reveals the outlandish nature of Patel's seemingly reasonable criticisms. Patel's stated motivation for his proposed reforms are not to root out the genuine issues of bloat, corruption and lack of transparency at the FBI. It's to go after a hit list of mythical enemies like James Comey, Lisa Page or Barack Obama who are part of the so called deep state. Even though, as journalist and frequent FBI critic Ken Klippenstein so eloquently put it, Patel is really just obsessing over a few dozen people who are over the hill and busying themselves writing doorstep memoirs titled A Sacred My Life of Service and Sacrifice. In the process, we get an FBI head whose behavior has progressed from oddball to outright worrisome. Remember, Patel has openly promised retribution against Trump's political enemies. Patel has said the figure at the center of the QAnon cult should get credit for all the things he has accomplished. Patel has hawked dietary supplements to reverse the vax and get healthy. Patel has said he would crack down on leakers and prosecute journalists. And Patel still believes Joe Biden stole the 2020 election. Again, these are not problems of experience or of loyalty. As Derek Hunter explained, Democrats nominate inexperienced loyalists all the time too. These are problems with handing broad law enforcement powers at a mostly apolitical institution to someone who genuinely believes crackpot theories and openly promises to use his powers to go after perceived enemies. The FBI needs reform. Our surveillance state needs some of the changes Patel is stumping for. But we don't need this. We don't need cash Patel only because we are living in the Trump circularity as someone like him even sniffing the levers of power. And we're all worse off for it. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [25:58]
Ryan Reynolds
Ryan Reynolds here for I guess my hundredth mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't. No. I mean, honestly, when I started this I thought I only have to do like four of these. I mean it's unlimited to premium wireless for dollar there's still people paying two or three times that much. I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming here, give it a try@mintmobile.com switch whenever you're ready.
- [26:21]
Unknown Voiceover
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- [27:07]
Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for my take. Which brings us to your questions answered. This one's from an anonymous listener who said from reading Tangle, I've gained a sense that one factor in the recent election was the media crying wolf, reporting basically false or misleading bad things about Donald Trump. Which meant that when they reported true bad things about him, those reports were taken less seriously. My question then, do any decision makers from the mainstream media read Tangle and have their choices impacted? Might we see any shifts to raise editorial standards based on this kind of thoughtful analysis? Beyond serving as an outlet for people like us, is Tangle having a broader impact? So first off, thank you for the implied compliment. We do try our best to provide thoughtful analysis, but I also know that we're not the only outlet that's trying to cover Trump end any partisan issue in a way that's even handed and clear eyed. I do know that staffers at a number of prominent mainstream media organizations read Tangled dozens from the New York Times, the Washington Post, Vox, Time Magazine, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, and the Washington examiner, just to name a few. There's no way for me to know how much we influence any major outlet's coverage, and just from a business perspective, I'm not sure they'd want to take cues from us anyway. We have grown a lot over the past couple of years, especially in the last month, and we're incredibly proud and profoundly grateful for the 280,000 plus of you that read Tangle and the tens of thousands that listen to this podcast every day. But when you compare that to the 11 million paid subscribers of the New York times or the 3.2 million average primetime viewers of Fox News, I think it shows that the traditional media news models are still winning, even if they are failing with increasingly more people. I don't know what those outlets think of places like us. In many ways, we can't do our work without their original reporting and editorials. There's something symbiotic about our relationship, especially since we often link out to and point back to their work. At the same time, I doubt they see us as a major competitor, at least not yet, and I'm not sure I see them that way either. I want to win over their readers and viewers and listeners, sure, but it doesn't matter to me whether they keep reading traditional media outlets or not, I just want them to give us a shot too. I truly do believe in what we're doing at Tangle, and my biggest hope is that all the work we've done so far is just the beginning. In a world where our reach one day surpasses those major news outlets, maybe they do start taking cues from us. But until then, I'm skeptical that they would all right, that is it for your questions answered. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the podcast and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace.
- [29:51]
Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under the Radar story for today, folks. On Sunday, the United Nations Relief and Works agencies for Palestinian refugees in the near east announced it was suspending aid deliveries through the Kerem Shalom crossing, the main entry point into Gaza from Israel following a series of attacks on aid trucks. UNRWA Commissioner General Philippe Lazzarini said Israel had failed to ensure safe conditions along the route, leading to a breakdown of law and order that threatened the safety of aid workers. In response, Israel said the suspension would have a minimal impact on overall aid deliveries, noting that its own aid distribution agency had Transported more than 1,000 truckloads of aid into Gaza in the last week. Gazans, however, are facing an imminent famine as food, water, medicine and fuel remain scarce. The New York Times has this story and there's a link in today's episode Description all right, next up is our numbers section. The year the FBI was formally created initially as the Bureau of investigation was 1908 by Attorney General Charles J. Bonaparte. The year Congress passed Public Law 94503 limiting the FBI director to a single term of no longer than 10 years is 1976, after J. Edgar Hoover served a 48 year term. The number of directors, including acting directors, in the FBI's history is 20. The number of FBI directors who have been fired before the end of their term since 1976 is 2. The number of FBI directors who have served their full 10 year term since 1976 is one. The FBI's net favorability with Americans is plus 18%, according to an August 2024 Pew Research survey. The FBI's net favorability rating with Republicans is minus 13%, and the FBI's net favorability with Democrats is plus 49%. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day story. An estimated 421,000 Australians are living with dementia, a brain condition that progressively inhibits memory and the ability to perform everyday tasks. Helen English, an associate professor at the University of Newcastle observed that music is a stronger trigger for memories. This gave Dr. English an fight dementia. By forming a choir, now 40 members strong, the choir provides not only a potential clinical benefit, but also a creative outlet and space of social support. You can read about the Unforgettables with a link in today's episode description all right everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to readtangle.com to sign up for a membership. You can also go to tangledmedia.supercast.com to sign up for a premium podcast membership which gets you ad free daily podcasts, Friday editions, Sunday editions, bonus content, interviews and so much more. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace.
- [32:49]
Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by Dean Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak Daily Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Boa, who's also our social media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website@readtangle.com that's readtangle.com.
- [33:27]
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