Podcast Summary: Tangle — President Trump Orders H-1B Visa Applicants to Pay a $100,000 Fee

Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Isaac Saul
Episode Topic: President Trump’s proclamation introducing a $100,000 application fee for H-1B visa applicants, including reactions from across the political spectrum and industry, a breakdown of core arguments, and analysis of potential impacts.

Overview of the Episode

In this timely episode, Isaac Saul and the Tangle team examine President Trump’s new executive order requiring a one-time $100,000 fee for H-1B visa applicants. The episode explores the rationale behind this policy, reactions from the political left and right, concerns from business and industry experts, and Isaac’s nuanced personal take on the issue. The discussion aims to clarify how this policy will affect immigration, the tech industry, and the U.S. workforce.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

[02:01] Introduction by Isaac Saul

• Purpose: Isaac frames the episode as an analysis of a significant shift in legal immigration policy—a new $100,000 fee for H-1B visa applicants. He underscores the implications for both the U.S. economy and the immigration system.

• Quote:
  "It's going to change the immigration — legal immigration — system in a significant way and I think will have ripple effects across the U.S. economy." – Isaac Saul [02:15]

• New Listener Engagement: Isaac introduces Subtext, a platform for listener feedback, encouraging deeper audience participation. [~03:10]

[04:01] Quick Hits / News Round-up

Brief mentions of unrelated headline news (Disney/Kimmel, TikTok majority ownership, FDA/acetaminophen, recognition of Palestine, SCOTUS and FTC) set the broader political context. [04:01–05:42]

[05:42] The H-1B Fee Policy: What’s Changing?

• Policy Details:

  • President Trump signs a proclamation introducing a $100,000 fee for new H-1B visa applications, effective for the next lottery cycle (March 2026).
  • Exemptions: At the discretion of Homeland Security.
  • Clarification: Not annual, but a one-time fee per application.
  • H-1B visa: For highly skilled workers in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, math); typically allows up to a six-year stay.
  • Initial confusion: Contradictory statements from Commerce and the White House regarding whether the fee was annual or one-time. [05:53–07:35]

• White House Motivation:

  • Discourage companies from “spamming the system” and depressing wages.
  • Encourage more U.S. hiring.
  • Respond to abuses that make it hard to attract “the highest skilled subset” of workers.

• Immediate Industry Reaction:

  • Major U.S. companies advised H-1B employees abroad to return before restrictions hit.
  • Concerns about confusion and hiring difficulties across the tech sector.

[09:39] Arguments from Across the Political Spectrum

The Left: [09:39–12:33]

• Noah Smith (No Opinion):

  • Highlights value of H-1Bs for startups and universities.
  • Recognizes the fee will create a “significant burden” but not an insurmountable one; possible exemption for foreign students could benefit those who study in the U.S.
  • "The order in whatever form is still a significant attack on skilled immigration." [10:22]

• Patricia Lopez (Bloomberg):

  • Describes the move as a “gamble” to protect U.S. jobs, but admits the program is ripe for reform.
  • Notes program is abused by middlemen and leads to “large scale replacement of skilled American labor.”
  • Warns of economic risks: costs may slow expansion and push jobs overseas.
  • "If companies can't find competitive labor sources, expansion plans may slow, resulting in fewer jobs overall." [11:42]

The Right: [12:33–14:32]

• Brian C. Jundef (American Thinker):

  • Praises the policy as “America First.”
  • Criticizes how H-1B has become a way to import cheap labor, even at risk of national security.
  • "America cannot afford to have its cutting edge military and technology sectors mainly staffed by non citizens." [13:15]

• David Herbert (American Spectator):

  • Calls move “crony capitalism,” warning it will harm small businesses more than industry giants.
  • "For tech companies like Amazon, Google and Microsoft, an additional $100,000 per worker is annoying but not devastating...an extra $100,000 fee is a crushing barrier that effectively prices [small firms] out of the global talent market." [13:54]

Industry & Expert Voices: [14:32–17:59]

• Andy Mukherjee (Bloomberg):

  • Notes outsized impact on India (over 70% of H-1B visas).
  • Suggests fee will “gut” the program for Indian outsourcing giants and immigrant families.
  • Raises possibility talent will be redirected to other countries.

• Josh Code interviews Min Kim (The Free Press):

  • Kim, an immigration startup founder, sees fee as a response to long-standing abuse but stresses need to focus on “ultra elite” talent.
  • Suggests compensation as a better selection mechanism.
  • "America, want to be attracting the absolute best talent in the world, but not at the expense of those who are already here." [16:49]

[17:59] Isaac’s Take: A Nuanced “Wait and See” Analysis

• No Clear Cheerleaders:
  "What I haven’t seen is a lot of enthusiastic support for it. Personally, I would put myself in the wait and see camp." – Isaac Saul [17:59]

• Trump’s Motivation:
  Policy typifies Trump’s “shock and awe” style; meant to force companies to use H-1Bs for only the “absolute best” talent.

• Acknowledge Program Flaws:
  Isaac recognizes abuses: gaming the system, middlemen exploiting loopholes, dominance by Indian applicants, restrictions on H-1B workers’ flexibility.

• Balancing Evidence:
  However, he shares that evidence does not conclusively show H-1Bs depress U.S. wages or represent a major share of the labor market (only about half a million out of millions in tech).

• Potential Upsides and Risks:

  • Fee could deter big companies from flooding the lottery, but could also exaggerate the advantage of big firms over smaller ones.
  • May push companies to hire overseas or discourage startups and small businesses from hiring any H-1B workers.
  • "Maybe that’s what Trump wants – companies like Tangle boxed out of the system. But is that really going to stop Amazon or Google or Apple...?" [20:36]

• Effects on Labor Market:

  • U.S. STEM grads are struggling to find jobs, but how much H-1B visas contribute is unclear.
  • Policy will be reevaluated after a year, which Isaac sees as a positive aspect.

• Legal Questions:
  Isaac mentions possible court challenges, referencing mistakes made in past analysis on tariffs.

• Conclusion:
  "I’m both skeptical the program needed a sledgehammer and sympathetic to the idea that the status quo was untenable. ... I think the wisest thing to do is to wait and see." [25:23]

[26:29] Listener Q&A: Constitutional Rights & Non-Citizens

• [26:29–28:56]

• Isaac explains that most constitutional protections apply to persons—not just citizens—citing cases like Yick Wo v. Hopkins and Yamataya v. Fisher.

• Some constitutional rights are not extended to undocumented immigrants (such as voting or firearm possession).

[28:56] Data & “Under the Radar” Stories

• H-1B Visa Stats: [29:52]

  • Created in 1990; current annual cap is 65,000 (+20,000 for U.S. grads)
  • Median H-1B wage (2021): $108,000 vs. median U.S. wage: $45,760
  • Approvals (2022-2023): India (279,386), China (45,344), Philippines (4,619)

• Heartwarming Story:
  14-year-old Cody Trinkle rescued after 80 hours lost; meets police dog Daryl.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The order in whatever form is still a significant attack on skilled immigration.” — Noah Smith, [10:22]
• “America cannot afford to have its cutting edge military and technology sectors mainly staffed by non citizens.” — Brian C. Jundef, [13:15]
• “An extra $100,000 fee is a crushing barrier that effectively prices [small firms] out of the global talent market.” — David Herbert, [13:54]
• “Maybe that’s what Trump wants—companies like Tangle boxed out of the system. But is that really going to stop Amazon or Google or Apple?” — Isaac Saul, [20:36]
• “I’m both skeptical the program needed a sledgehammer and sympathetic to the idea that the status quo was untenable.” — Isaac Saul, [25:23]

Key Timestamps

• [02:01] Introduction, scope of episode
• [05:42] Policy breakdown: What is the new H-1B fee and who does it affect?
• [09:39] The Left’s response (Noah Smith and Patricia Lopez)
• [12:33] The Right’s response (Brian Jundef and David Herbert)
• [14:32] Industry and expert insights (Andy Mukherjee, Min Kim)
• [17:59] Isaac’s take: analysis, pros/cons, likely impacts
• [26:29] Listener Q&A: Constitutional protections for immigrants
• [29:52] H-1B number stats

Tone and Style

• Balanced, analytical, and conversational.
• Isaac often pauses to share personal perspective but grounds analysis in data and expert opinion.
• Emphasis on transparency (“wait and see” approach), recognition of nuance, and desire to reflect honest debate from across the spectrum.

Conclusion

This episode offers a thorough, balanced look at President Trump’s surprise $100,000 H-1B fee. While the administration frames it as a move to protect U.S. workers and reduce program abuse, critics argue it may stifle innovation, harm small businesses, and further complicate an already difficult process. The tech industry’s next moves—and potential legal challenges—are poised to shape the true consequences of this bold policy change. Isaac’s “wait and see” approach acknowledges both the need for reform and the risk of unintended consequences. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in immigration, tech, or the wider debate over what “America First” policy really means for the U.S. economy.