PREVIEW: SPECIAL EDITION - Associate Editor Lindsey Knuth interviews Pew Research Center report authors Jonathan Evans and Laura Silver about some very concerning statistics they found.

Summary

Tangle Podcast: Special Edition Preview

Episode Title: Associate Editor Lindsey Knuth interviews Pew Research Center report authors Jonathan Evans and Laura Silver about some very concerning statistics they found.
Date: May 6, 2026
Host: Lindsey Knuth (Associate Editor, Tangle)
Guests: Jonathan Evans (Senior Researcher, Pew Research Center), Laura Silver (Associate Director, Pew Global Attitudes Research)

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth preview conversation between Tangle associate editor Lindsey Knuth and two Pew Research Center report authors, Jonathan Evans and Laura Silver. They discuss the findings from recent Pew studies that reveal troubling attitudes among Americans regarding national pride and perceptions of fellow citizens' morality. The episode explores the striking data points that suggest the U.S. ranks poorly globally in these categories, delving into the role of partisanship and comparing American attitudes to those in other countries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background and Purpose of the Surveys (04:15–05:27)

• Two Surveys, Shared Methodology:

  • Laura Silver explains both she and Jonathan Evans authored separate Pew studies but used the same annual 25-country, cross-national survey platform.
  • Methods vary by country but always ensure a nationally representative sample.
  • The survey covers a range of topics: international attitudes toward countries like the U.S. and China, views on democracy, religious beliefs, and more.

  "We do one large format annual cross national survey per year... in 25 countries. One of the things that makes us unique is that we focus on nationally representative data."
  — Laura Silver (04:15)

2. Media Sensation and Framing of Findings (05:27–06:50)

• Unexpected Attention:
  • Lindsey notes these survey results circulated widely, with alarming headlines focusing on America's low national pride and citizens’ poor perceptions of fellow Americans’ morality.
  • Jonathan Evans reflects that widespread coverage aligns with Pew's mission:
    "Our big goal in all the work we do is to inform the public... to help all of us be better informed about how people think." (06:08)

3. Measuring Morality: Survey Approach and U.S. Results (06:50–08:49)

• Why Ask About National Morality?

  • Jonathan Evans describes how this is Pew’s first broad question about perceptions of general morality and ethics, leaving it for respondents to interpret.
  • Results demonstrate stark global differences—most notably, the U.S. stands out.

  "The United States—53% of adults say that the people in their country are morally bad. And then it stretches to places like Australia where at the other end, 85% say people are morally good. So just a wide variety..."
  — Jonathan Evans (08:26)

4. The Uniqueness of the U.S. Result (10:43–12:35)

• Only Country Where Most See Their People as Morally Bad:

  • Lindsey highlights that the U.S. was the only surveyed nation with a majority rating their own citizens’ morals and ethics as “bad.”

• Partisanship’s Role:

  • Jonathan Evans points to political divides:
    • 60% of Democrats say Americans are morally bad.
    • 46% of Republicans say the same.
    • Globally, opposition party supporters are more likely to see fellow citizens as morally bad.
    • Even the lower Republican figure is notably high internationally.

  “If we consider Republicans in the United States as their own country, they would have been one of the most likely countries in our survey to say that people were morally bad...”
  — Jonathan Evans (12:11)

5. National Pride: Partisan Differences (12:35–)

• Extending the Political Divide:
  • Lindsey brings up Laura’s findings on national pride, noting partisan splits, and invites Laura to elaborate.
  • This conversation is cut short due to the episode preview ending.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Survey Design & Representation:
  "Meaning that we can make claims about the public's in full." — Laura Silver (04:49)

• Global Comparison Dramatic:
  “It is still interesting though, that even looking at that divide in the United States, where, yes, Republicans are less likely to say that other people Americans are morally bad, it's still 46%, which is significantly higher than in a lot of countries around the world.”
  — Jonathan Evans (12:09)

• Media Coverage as Validation:
  “Having the success we did with people picking up on these reports, it's always rewarding to know that we're informing those discussions.”
  — Jonathan Evans (06:39)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:10] Episode Introduction, context for choosing guests and reports
• [04:15] Survey methodology, sample details, and what Pew set out to measure
• [05:27] Public/media response to headline findings
• [06:50] Why Pew asked about morality; global differences
• [08:49] Break (ads, skipped for summary)
• [10:43] Unique U.S. result, exploration of partisanship’s impact
• [12:35] Partisan differences in national pride findings (preview ends shortly after)

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Summary Flow & Takeaways

• The Pew surveys draw a concerning portrait of American self-evaluation: the U.S. stands out globally for its citizens’ negative perceptions of each other’s morality and lukewarm or negative national pride.
• Methodologically, Pew takes pains to ensure data is representative and cross-nationally comparable.
• Political polarization is a major explanatory factor, with both Democrats and Republicans rating fellow citizens poorly, though the divide mirrors trends seen in other countries’ opposition/supporter groups.
• The conversation previews a deeper investigation into how Americans define and express national pride across partisan lines, which is cut off in the preview.

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For those who haven’t listened, this episode is an accessible yet substantive look at alarming developments in American attitudes, with expert explanation of survey methods and global context, and a candid discussion of the polarization underlying the data.

Transcript

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[Lindsay Knuth]

Hey listeners, it's Lindsay, an associate editor here at Tangle. In February, I came across a new headline making the rounds from Forbes. It read, US ranks among worst countries for national pride, New survey finds. Then in March, another concerning statistic started popping up from the Washington Post. US Was only country in a worldwide survey to say most fellow citizens are bad people. Those are scary sounding findings, and I, as an editor at a place whose mission is to bridge divides, wondered if the cynical framing told the whole story or if there might be something more hiding beneath the surface. Both studies came out of Pew, a world renowned nonpartisan research center based in D.C. today, I'm sharing a conversation with two of the report's authors. Jonathan Evans, senior researcher at Pew, is here to elucidate the morality results. And Laura Silver, associate director of Pew's Global Attitudes Research, tells us more about what Americans have to say about national pride. It's a fascinating discussion. We get into the differences between Republicans and Democrats responses to these questions, how much partisanship plays a role in U.S. findings and which American quality citizens are most proud of. Finally, you'll learn a bit more about what it's like to be a professional pollster in the age of prediction markets. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you enjoy the episode. Laura, Jonathan, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for being here.

[Laura Silver]

Thanks for having us.

[Jonathan Evans]

Yeah, thanks for letting us be here.

[Lindsay Knuth]

So the reports you both authored, Laura, yours on national pride, and Jonathan yours on our moral perceptions of each other, together they paint a really fascinating picture of our country's psyche and how it compares to other nations. And before we dig into the results, I kind of want to set the scene a little bit and start by asking you both to tell me about the survey. You're here to talk about how many countries were involved, what role did each of you play and what did you set out to understand about these countries and these people?

[Laura Silver]

Such a good question. So Jonathan and I both authored separate studies because we wrote up different questions, but the vehicle we used to collect the data was the same. We do one large format annual cross national survey per year. And in 2025, when we collected the data for the reports that we'll speak to you about today, we surveyed in 25 countries. One of the things that makes us unique is that we focus on nationally representative data. So we actually collect it slightly differently depending on the country. In some places we send interviewers door to door, in some places we call them, and in some places we use probability based online panels. But in each of the cases, we have a nationally representative sample, meaning that we can make claims about the public's in full.

[Jonathan Evans]

Yeah, and as Laura said, we wrote up different questions, but this vehicle has a whole host of questions. It has often questions related to how people view the United States or China, their attitudes on democracy, sometimes questions related to their religious beliefs and practices. So a whole lot of different topics that we can get a picture of. Broadly speaking, how do societies around the world feel about these things?

[Lindsay Knuth]

Yeah, that's fascinating and a huge undertaking. And we'll get deeper into the questions you asked. But Pew, obviously is a world renowned institution, but these reports went at least in the corners of the Internet that I'm on. We're a politics newsletter, so we're always looking for updated statistics and things to report on. And I saw these reports everywhere, and especially the top line numbers. The US Views each other as less moral than other countries, and the US has limited or negative views of its national pride. Were you happy with how those top line results were framed? Were you surprised at the popularity of these surveys? Are you totally used to that?

[Jonathan Evans]

Well, our big goal in all the work we do is to inform the public. And that's not just the United States public, though of course we are based in the United States. It's to inform people all around the world about the societies they are in. Both to help all of us understand where we live and also how other people around the world live. And that can help us better make decisions in our own personal lives as we consider who you might vote for or policymakers deciding on policies. It's just to help all of us be better informed about how people think. And so having the success we did with people picking up on these reports, it's always rewarding to know that were informing those discussions.

[Lindsay Knuth]

Yeah. And Jonathan, moving on to your team's findings on morality, from what I understand, this is the first time that Pew has ever asked people this question about the morality of their compatriots, their fellow citizens. What led your team to ask it? And how should we understand morality and ethics, which are these kind of abstract concepts in this context?

[Jonathan Evans]

For sure, we had not asked this exact question before. We had previously, about a decade prior, asked about some specific behaviors to see if people thought different things, such as divorce or what have you are morally acceptable or morally wrong behaviors. And we wanted to ask those again, but then we also wanted to get sort of a high level picture of, okay, but do people think others in their society are moral and, and separate from the specific behaviors we're asking about? And like you said, we asked about morality and ethics of the people in their country. And we leave that up to the respondent, the person who's answering the survey, to interpret it. We don't want to give them very specific definitions because especially when we are looking at 25 different countries, there are a lot of different contexts that people might be considering for what it takes to be a moral person or to have good ethics. As we see when we ask about the behaviors, there are some behaviors where, where a chunk of the world, very few people are saying that it's morally wrong. But in another part of the world, a ton of people are saying a very high share. And so we don't want to necessarily tell people. That's not our job to tell them what it is to be moral, it's just what is their perception. And it's interesting just to see the variation we have where the United States 53% of adults say that the people in their country are morally bad. And then it stretches to places like Australia where at the other end 85% say people are morally good. So just a wide variety and it's super interesting just to see that.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

We'll be right back after this quick break.

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[Lindsay Knuth]

Yeah, and honing in on that US result, it being the only country surveyed where more people rated fellow citizens, morals and ethics as bad than good, you conclude about that result that partisan politics might play a role. I'm curious why you think that and what other factors you considered in trying to interpret this finding.

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[Jonathan Evans]

We did conclude that partisan politics appear to play at least some role. We do see a pretty significant divide between people who are Democrats or lean towards the Democratic Party as opposed to Republicans, where about 60% of Democrats saying that they rate their fellow Americans as morally bad, and it's 46% among Republicans in the United States. But this is a pattern that we see in about half of the countries that we surveyed where the supporters of the governing party are less inclined to see people as morally bad. It's the people who are in opposition or out of power or the supporters of that party that are seeing people as somewhat more morally, ethically bad. It is still interesting though, that even looking at that divide in the United States, where, yes, Republicans are less likely to say that other people Americans are morally bad, it's still 46%, which is significantly higher than in a lot of countries around the world. So it would have been among if we consider Republicans in the United States as their own country, they would have been one of the most likely countries in our survey to say that people were morally bad. So there is a divide in the United States, but still members of both parties, a lot of them saying that Americans are morally and ethically bad.

[Lindsay Knuth]

And Laura, you found also a split among Republicans and Democrats in your question on national pride, can you talk a little bit about the difference in responses that each of those parties used to describe what they felt about the national pride in their country?

[John Law]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive Producer for Tangle. We hope you enjoyed this preview of our latest episode. If you are not currently a newsletter subscriber or a premium podcast subscriber and you are enjoying this content and would like to finish it, you can go to readtangle.com and sign up for a newsletter subscription. Or you can sign up for a podcast subscription or a bundled subscription which gets you both the podcast and the newsletter and unlocks the rest of this episode as well as ad free daily podcasts, more Friday editions, Sunday editions, bonus content, interviews and so much more. Most importantly, we just want to say thank you so much for your support. We're working hard to bring you much more content and more offerings. So stay tuned. I will join you again for the daily podcast. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day y'.

[Lindsay Knuth]

All.

[John Law]

Peace.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Our Executive editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our Executive producer is John Woll. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsey Knuth and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tango and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website at Revolution.

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[Young Working Mom]

I'm balancing work and being a mom at the same time, and I'm still on track to graduate with my bachelor's next year.

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So what do today's young people need to truly thrive? Tune in to Good Things from Lemonada Media to hear the six part Thrive series.

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