PREVIEW: The Friday Edition. - Here's my message to America's college students.

Summary

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Tangle Podcast PREVIEW: The Friday Edition – "Here's my message to America's college students."

Host: Isaac Saul
Date: May 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this Friday Edition preview, host Isaac Saul shares reflections from his recent tour of five diverse college campuses across the country. Isaac distills what he's learned about today’s college students, polarization in America, and offers a personal "working thesis" about the roots of our current divisions—focusing not simply on classic social or political categories but on deeper divides based on values like openness, curiosity, and humility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The College Campus Tour Experience

• Tour Scope: Isaac visited Rowan University (NJ), Davidson College (NC), Brigham Young University (UT), Harvard University (MA), and St. Olaf College (MN)—noting the diversity in campus culture and student body across these locations.
  "I've been crisscrossing the country, hitting college campuses to talk about Tangle, political polarization and the state of the media." (02:19)

• Reception:

  • Students overall welcomed the mission of Tangle and showed a hunger for reliable information.
  • The most skeptical audience was at Harvard among Nieman Fellows—mid-career journalists—who questioned whether Tangle could truly bridge America’s trust gap.

2. Reflection on Today's College Students

• Impression:
  "The kids are all right. They're smart, kind, thoughtful, inquisitive, skeptical and desperate to find reliable sources of information on every campus." (03:01)
• Students are open-minded and actively seeking nuanced, trustworthy news sources.

3. Rethinking the Roots of Division in America

• Common Dividing Lines:

  • Standard categories: Democrat vs. Republican, rich vs. poor, religious vs. non-religious, white vs. non-white, educated vs. non-educated.
    "Of course, the divisions on each of these axes can be real, and when they exist, they do create tension." (03:52)

• A New Perspective:

  • These classic divides are inadequate to fully describe what is driving polarization.
  • The new, more relevant divides are:
    • Indecent vs. decent
    • Fair reporters vs. hacks
    • Open-minded vs. close-minded
    • Curious vs. incurious
    • Humble vs. arrogant
    • Nihilists vs. existentialists
    • Sycophants vs. dissenters

  "I see new dividing lines that are reinforcing and hardening our polarization, and they look like indecent vs decent, fair reporters vs the hacks, open minded vs close minded, curious vs incurious, humble vs arrogant..." (04:29)

4. Illustrative Example: Hannity vs. Carlson

• Comparison:

  • Both Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson: Conservative, wealthy, white, religious, Fox News alumni, Trump supporters.
  • Despite similarities, their recent paths diverge:

    • Tucker Carlson:

      • Left Fox, started an independent podcast, openly criticized the Iran war, admitted mistakes, and apologized for misleading the audience about Trump.
        “He will have to live the rest of his life knowing that he misled his audience into voting for him.” (06:09)
      • Emphasized as curious, humble, and willing to dissent—earning respect even from political adversaries.

    • Sean Hannity:

      • “Continued to walk the party line, cheering on nearly every action Trump has taken and insisting to his viewers that the Iran war is delivering everything Americans could want.” (06:30)
      • Even “renounced his Catholicism amid a disagreement Trump had with Pope Leo.” (06:37)

• Takeaway:
  “Carlson, I'd argue, is open minded. He's curious. He's willing to say I was wrong. He's not a sycophant, but a dissenter. ... These kinds of divisions are all over the media and the country as a whole, dividing lines that I think are becoming far more important than race, class, or even political orientation.” (06:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Today’s Students:
  “The kids are all right. They're smart, kind, thoughtful, inquisitive, skeptical and desperate to find reliable sources of information on every campus.”
  (03:01 – Isaac Saul)

• On Classic Divides:
  “I'm not going to tell you that the class divide doesn't matter. People who have lots of money are actually experiencing a much different country than people who are struggling to make ends meet. This is reality. Yet I don't think that these divisions holistically or even adequately describe what really divides us.”
  (04:06 – Isaac Saul)

• On Value-Based Divides:
  “I see new dividing lines that are reinforcing and hardening our polarization, and they look like indecent vs decent, fair reporters vs the hacks, open minded vs close minded, curious vs incurious, humble vs arrogant...”
  (04:29 – Isaac Saul)

• The Hannity vs. Carlson Example:
  “No matter what you think about his politics, his political stances or his impact on the public discourse, I think [Carlson’s] membership in the curious, open minded and humble camps are incontrovertible and they are real virtues that should be acknowledged and celebrated.”
  (06:54 – Isaac Saul)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Start of Isaac Saul’s message and campus tour reflection: 02:17
• Overview of student attitudes and the “kids are all right” assessment: 03:01
• Discussion of classic versus value-based divides: 03:52 – 04:29
• Elaboration on new divides and their importance: 04:29 – 06:01
• Hannity vs. Carlson case study: 06:01 – 07:31

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Summary

Isaac Saul’s address, delivered at St. Olaf College and shared as this episode's message, calls on students and listeners to recognize and foster virtues—curiosity, humility, open-mindedness, and dissent—over adherence to party, class, or identity divides. He challenges standard narratives about polarization and encourages a focus on deeper values, highlighting how these qualities can bridge even the most entrenched social and political divides.

(Content preview ends at ~07:57. To hear the full message, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to the Tangle newsletter or podcast.)

Transcript

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[Isaac Saul]

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast. This is a members only Friday edition. Over the last five weeks, I've been crisscrossing the country, hitting college campuses to talk about tangle, political polarization and the state of the media. I've spoken at Rowan University in Southern New Jersey, Davidson College in North Carolina, Brigham Young University in Utah, Harvard University in Massachusetts, and St. Olaf College in Minnesota. Five very different campuses with very different student bodies in very different parts of the country there's so much to say about each of these places and these visits, but the top line takeaway is what I said last month in Press Pass the kids are all right. They're smart, kind, thoughtful, inquisitive, skeptical and desperate to find reliable sources of information on every campus. The concept of Tangle was welcome. The most pushback I faced was probably at Harvard speaking to a group of Nieman Fellows who weren't really students but mid career journalists, many of whom seemed more skeptical about the idea that Tangle could bridge a trust gap in America. On the whole, though, it's been an uplifting and fulfilling few weeks, and as I've traveled the country I've been thinking even more deeply about our state of affairs, the real factors driving our divisions, and where we go from here. These thoughts culminated in the last talk I gave on the last stop of my de facto campus tour at St. Olaf outside Minnesota. I wrote the talk the morning of May 2nd at a coffee shop around the corner from campus and then delivered it that afternoon. And today I'm sharing that talk, which I've amended, edited and rewritten in parts as our Friday edition. I hope you enjoy. We are, to put it mildly, living in interesting times. As I thought about what I wanted to say today in these closing remarks, it occurred to me that many journalists, academics and commentators we've heard from have a thesis about why we're so divided and polarized and what the real dividing line. I have what I'd call a working thesis of my own, an idea that I'm still wrestling with but nonetheless would like to share with you all as a parting thought, and maybe something you can carry with you going forward. All across our country I see divisions that I'm not quite sure actually exist in the way that we imagine them. We are frequently bucketed in familiar ways. Democrat versus Republican, conservative versus Liberal, rich versus Poor, religious versus Non religious, white versus Non white, educated, educated versus Non educated. Of course, the visions on each of these axes can be real, and when they exist, they do create tension. I'm not going to deny that Republicans and Democrats often have a hard time getting along. I'm not going to tell you that the class divide doesn't matter. People who have lots of money are actually experiencing a much different country than people who are struggling to make ends meet. This is reality. Yet I don't think that these divisions holistically or even adequately describe what really divides us. Instead, I see new dividing lines that are reinforcing and hardening our polarization, and they look like indecent vs decent fair reporters vs the hacks open minded vs close minded curious vs incurious humble vs arrogant nihilists vs existentialist sycophants vs dissenters consider this question what's the difference between Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson? Both are conservative commentators who at different points in their careers dominated Fox News's ratings. Both are wealthy, white middle aged men. Both are religious. Both are for all intents and purposes, allies of President Donald Trump and leaders in the MAGA and right wing movements. Yet one Tucker Carlson was fired by the network and started his own independent podcast and has now become one of the most clear eyed and outspoken critics of the war in Iran. Just last month, Carlson told his audience he was wrong about Trump and apologized, saying he will have to live the rest of his life knowing that he misled his audience into voting for him. Hannity, meanwhile, has continued to walk the party line, cheering on nearly every action Trump has taken and insisting to his viewers that the Iran war is delivering everything Americans could want to. He even went so far as to renounce his Catholicism amid a disagreement Trump had with Pope Leo. Putting aside how you might feel about these two, and we're at St. Olaf College so I imagine they are not particularly popular here, a real separation exists in how they see things and how they operate. Carlson, I'd argue, is open minded. He's curious. He's willing to say I was wrong. He's not a sycophant but a dissenter. No matter what you think about his politics, his political stances or his impact on the public discourse, I think his membership in the curious, open minded and humble camps are incontrovertible and they are real virtues that should be acknowledged and celebrated. They also explain why Carlson has earned some plaudits even from his political enemies on the left, and why he's taken seriously by places like the New York Times. These kinds of divisions are all over the media and the country as a whole, dividing lines that I think are becoming far more important than race, class or even political orientation.

[John Law]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive Producer for Tangle. We hope you enjoyed this preview of our latest episode. If you are not currently a newsletter subscriber or a premium podcast subscriber subscriber and you are enjoying this content and would like to finish it. You can go to readtangle.com and sign up for a newsletter subscription or you can sign up for a podcast subscription or a bundled subscription which gets you both the podcast and the newsletter and unlocks the rest of this episode as well as ad free daily podcasts, more Friday editions, Sunday editions, bonus content, interviews, and so much more. Most importantly, we just want to say thank you so much for your support. We're working hard to bring you much more content and more offerings, so stay tuned. I will join you again for the daily podcast. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'. All. Peace.

[Isaac Saul]

Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our Executive producer is John Law. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kbach and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsey Knuth and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our [e-mail].

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