PREVIEW - The Friday Edition: How Nick Fuentes became Nick Fuentes.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Tangle – "PREVIEW - The Friday Edition: How Nick Fuentes became Nick Fuentes"

Host: Isaac Saul
Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this special Friday edition preview of Tangle, host Isaac Saul critically reflects on the recent Tucker Carlson interview with Nick Fuentes, a highly polarizing far-right figure. The episode explores not only the mainstream outrage and ideological divides generated by the interview, but delves into the rarely discussed story of how Fuentes developed his extremist views. Saul examines the evolution of Fuentes’ ideology, his early influences, and his motivations, asking: "How did Nick Fuentes become Nick Fuentes?" The episode aims to illuminate the process of radicalization, rather than merely condemning or platforming Fuentes’ rhetoric.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Fuentes and Carlson ([01:54])

• Initial Reaction: Saul expresses shock that Tucker Carlson, known for pushing boundaries, hosted Fuentes on his show, especially after previously mocking him.

  “When this interview first popped up in my podcast feed, all I could do was stop and just take a big deep breath. Nick Fuentes on Tucker Carlson…” (Isaac Saul, 01:54)

• Background on Fuentes:

  • Described as leader of the “Groipers,” espousing "genuinely radical far right” views.
  • Dropped out of college after the deadly Unite the Right rally (Charlottesville, 2017).
  • Banned from mainstream and social platforms for repeated racist and antisemitic comments.
  • Notorious for remarks like comparing Judaism to “the synagogue of Satan” and praising Hitler.

• Mainstream Conservative Response:

  • Fuentes has long been persona non grata, even among most on the right. Tucker Carlson, despite previous tolerance for controversial guests, had also mocked Fuentes publicly.
  • Carlson’s interview style here was criticized for being notably passive.

“Many people wanted to see Fuentes held to account for his views and words. … Instead, for the most part, Carlson softballed Fuentes and left the most damning things he has said or implied pass without much, if any pushback.” (Isaac Saul, 04:04)

2. The Fallout: Intra-Party War & Conservative Critique ([05:15])

• Backlash from the Right:

  • Figures like Ben Shapiro and Ted Cruz condemned both Fuentes’ views and Carlson’s softball approach.
    • Quote (from Ted Cruz):

      "If you sit there with someone who says Adolf Hitler was a very, very cool person … and you say nothing, then you are a coward." (Isaac Saul quoting Cruz, 06:00)

  • Carlson's platforming of Fuentes has deepened divisions within the MAGA and broader conservative movement.

• Underlying Civil War:

  • Saul observes that the MAGA movement is cohesive only due to Trump and brimming with unresolved ideological hostilities.
  • The direction of the post-Trump Republican Party is highly uncertain, with factions jockeying for dominance.

“A lot of the people in Trump's camp genuinely hate each other and their political and ideological differences. They run deep… I’m not sure which version of the Republican Party comes out on top on the other side.” (Isaac Saul, 06:30)

3. Why Focus on Fuentes' Origins? ([07:30])

• Shifting the Story:
  • Saul resists focusing solely on Fuentes' abhorrent views, which are well-documented, instead probing how he came to believe them.
  • Argues that understanding the formation of such radical beliefs is vital, given Fuentes’ growing influence among disaffected young men.

"How did he come to believe the things he does? ... This, to me, is the story nobody ever talks about, the one everyone seems to dance around for fear that exploring his evolution would somehow normalize or legitimize the views that he holds. But this part of the story is important, and it’s incredibly informative.” (Isaac Saul, 08:23)

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[AD BREAKS OMITTED]

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4. The Narrative of Radicalization ([10:33])

• Fuentes' Own Story (as recounted to Carlson):
  • Early Identity: Mainstream, "libertarian minded" Republican; door-knocked for Ted Cruz, listened to PragerU.
  • Initial Radicalization:
    • Mark Levin (mainstream conservative host) was the first to prompt Fuentes to think about demographic shifts (“do we want the US to be a majority minority country?”).
    • Trump’s rhetoric catalyzed a deeper turn, coupled with immersion in online message boards (4chan) and MAGA activism.

“He door knocked for Ted Cruz and listened to Prageru. He says the beginning of his radicalization on race was through Mark Levin…” (Isaac Saul, 10:48)

- **Boston University Years:**
    - Became a noted campus Trump supporter, often sparking confrontation and debate.
    - Notably, during a student government debate, laughed off accusations of racism but recalled feeling socially isolated and embattled.

"Some liberal douchebag was how Fuentes described him while insisting to Carlson that he absolutely crushed his opponent in the debate. Almost 10 years later, the insecurity still seeps through.” (Isaac Saul, 13:20)

- **Turning Points:**
    - Media attention after campus debates (via conservative reporter Cassie Akiva/Dillon).
    - Ben Shapiro’s “quote tweet” publicly branded Fuentes an antisemite, which Fuentes claims altered his trajectory. He saw this as evidence of Jewish control in conservative media.

“Fuentes described this [Shapiro’s quote-tweet] as setting him off on a new path, one where he saw the power of Jews and Israel supporters throughout the conservative media.” (14:58)

- **Ideological Worldview Crystallizes:**
    - After Obama abstained from a UN Israel vote, Fuentes was shocked to see the right call Obama antisemitic; felt both left and right weaponized identity politics.
    - Identifies himself as persistently embattled, cast as the enemy by both the left and (increasingly) the right.

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5. The Core Psychological Dynamic ([16:30])

• Persecution as Core Motivation:

  • In response to Carlson’s probing about how he distinguishes friends from foes, Fuentes boils his worldview down to:

    "They attacked me first."

• Isaac Saul’s Analysis:

  • Points out the psychology of grievance—how feelings of being targeted and ostracized drive further radicalization, not just for Fuentes but others like him.
  • Raises the broader concern that ostracizing figures like Fuentes doesn't diminish their influence; instead, it often fuels it among their core supporters.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Fuentes’ Quotes (as catalogued by Saul):

  “Just for the record, blacks need to be in prison for the most part. Perfidious Jews should be given the death penalty. … Women need to shut the fuck up. I love Hitler. … [Described Chicago as] ‘nigger hell.’” (Isaac Saul quoting Fuentes, 07:57)

• On why delve into Fuentes’ background:

  "Fuentes obviously wasn’t born a Jew-hating white nationalist who thinks it’s edgy and provocative to suggest most black people deserve prison time and women should be subservient. He became that person. How did that happen?” (Isaac Saul, 08:10-08:24)

• On the significance of exploring radicalization rather than ostracizing:

  “His army of very online angry young men is growing, and his rising star’s trajectory has not slowed down as he’s been mocked or ostracized. Actually, the opposite has been true.” (Isaac Saul, 08:52)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:54] – Isaac Saul opens main discussion; lays out Fuentes’ background and reputation.
• [04:04] – Critique of Carlson’s interview style; contrast with Carlson’s typical combativeness.
• [05:15-06:00] – Ben Shapiro and Senator Ted Cruz’s reactions to the interview.
• [07:30-08:00] – Saul articulates why he wants to understand Fuentes’ evolution, not just condemn him.
• [10:33-14:58] – Deep dive: Fuentes’ political coming-of-age, college years, and first brushes with fame.
• [16:30] – “They attacked me first”: The foundational grievance in Fuentes’ self-story.

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Tone & Language

Isaac Saul maintains a critical, contemplative, and analytical tone—intent on understanding the mechanics of radicalization without equivocating about the harms of Fuentes' beliefs. He is careful to separate recounting Fuentes' narrative from validating it, and uses direct language when quoting Fuentes' hateful rhetoric.

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Conclusion

This episode of Tangle provides an in-depth analysis of the forces that shaped Nick Fuentes into the outspoken extremist he is today. Instead of fixating on the latest outrage or simply denouncing Fuentes at the surface level, Saul delves into the personal and societal catalysts behind Fuentes’ radicalization. In doing so, he prompts listeners to consider the uncomfortable but necessary questions about grievance, ostracization, and the rise of extremist movements in America's digital era.

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For the complete episode and other exclusive Friday editions, visit readtangle.com

Transcript

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[D]

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast. I am your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, I want to talk about the Tucker Carlson Nick Fuentes interview. When this interview first popped up in my podcast feed, all I could do was stop and just take a big deep breath. Nick Fuentes on Tucker Carlson I thought, man, I'm a regular listener of Carlson's podcast. So I knew that in a conversation with Candace Owens just a few weeks before, he had described Fuentes as a weird little gay kid living in his basement. Fuentes was apparently perturbed, and he responded by lambasting Carlson as a fraudulent populist. These are not the kinds of attacks that I'd mount against either Fuentes or Carlson. But I found some solace in the fact that someone as mainstream as Carlson, who had embraced plenty of unsavory characters over the years, still wouldn't go as far as big tenting someone like Fuentes. In case you are blissfully unaware of his existence, Nick Fuentes is known for leading a group called the Groipers that holds a genuinely radical far right position. They've spent years attacking people like Charlie Kirk as being too left. Fuentes dropped out of college to focus on media full time after attending the Unite the Right gathering in Charlottesville, Virginia, which turned deadly after an extremist rammed his car through a crowd of students. He was banned from the app, then known as Twitter in 2021 for repeated racist and anti Semitic comments, as well as by YouTube, Reddit, TikTok, Spotify, Venmo, Stripe and Clubhouse. He referred to Judaism as a synagogue of Satan during a speech at a Stop the Steal rally. He returned to Twitter X in 2022, but Elon Musk banned him again after he said he'd go DEFCON 3 on Jews. He held a live chat where he praised Hitler and and he said he was going to go to war with the Jews. Then, after returning to X in 2024, he caused another controversy when he posted your Body My Choice after Donald Trump won the election. Fuentes is not merely controversial, he is Persona non grata for most people on the right, and talking with him was a bridge too far, even for people like Carlson, who have a high tolerance for public criticism. That obviously has now changed. This story has a number of interesting threads, starting with the style of interview Carlson used. Many people wanted to see Fuentes held to account for his views and words. Regular listeners of Carlson's show know what it sounds like when he digs his teeth in. He is one of the best combative interviewers in the game. Instead, for the most part, Carlsen softballed Fuentes and left the most damning things he has said or implied pass without much, if any pushback. After the interview came out, a lot of people predictably and justifiably criticized Carlson for his passivity. Ben Shapiro, whom Fuentes spent a lot of time attacking, did the best job of explaining just how insidious Carlson's approach was, and did it without trying to silence or cancel Carlson or nuking him from space, as Fuentes would call it. A former victim of Carlson's confrontational interview style also summed it up nicely. If you sit there with someone who says Adolf Hitler was a very, very cool person and that their mission is to combat and defeat global Jewry. And you say nothing, then you are a coward. Senator Ted Cruz said. I have to say I agree. Another thread which many in the media seized upon was the larger intraparty war this interview has now set off on the right. MAGA is being held together right now by the person at the top, the most dominant personality in modern politics. But it's not at all clear what happens post Trump. A lot of the people in Trump's camp genuinely hate each other and their political and ideological differences. They run deep. Those people are jockeying for the future of the party right now, and I'm not sure which version of the Republican Party comes out on top on the other side. But neither of these storylines compelled me enough to cover this interview here at Tangle. Instead, it was something different that hooked me, something that made me feel like this was generating a controversy worth paying attention to. Fuentes, who is a quarter Mexican, seems to have an outright hatred for most minority groups and often frames whiteness and Europeanness and masculinity as the core qualities of an America worth defending. He talks about the Jews a lot, and rarely never in a good way. He has also had an open contempt for black people, framed almost always as criminals unfit for society and women, a group definitively not equal to men in his estimation, and too opinionated and assertive in today's society. Here's just a small collection of his quotables. Just for the record, blacks need to be in prison for the most part. Perfidious Jews should be given the death penalty. Your body, my choice, forever. A lot of women want to be raped. I'm not living around blacks. Sorry. Women need to shut the fuck up. I love Hitler. And as he described Chicago, quote, nigger hell. It's so easy to focus on the awfulness of these views, but we already knew that Fuentes was a merchant of these kinds of opinions. Instead, what I learned about was what made Fuentes the person he is. His background, his motivations, the how of his story. How did he come to believe the things he does? Fuentes obviously wasn't born a Jew hating white nationalist who thinks it's edgy and provocative to suggest most black people deserve prison time and women should be subservient. He became that person. How did that happen? This, to me, is the story nobody ever talks about, the one that everybody seems to dance around for fear that exploring his evolution would somehow normalize or legitimize the views that he holds. But this part of the story is important, and it's incredibly informative. Fuentes is not alone. His popularity is rising right now, and that rise is meaningful. His army of very online angry young men is growing, and his rising star's trajectory has not slowed down as he's been mocked or ostracized. Actually, the opposite has been true. I knew from listening to Carlson's show regularly that he engages his guests in particularly long conversations, especially the ones he isn't openly antagonistic towards. It usually goes like this 1 ask about their childhood story, 2 ask about their formative moments, 3 connect those moments to who they are today, and 4 give lots of space for them to state their views unopposed. As I expected, Carlson spent the first half of the show repeating this structure, and despite that half of the show being largely ignored, I actually found the story Fuentes told incredibly valuable and quite revealing. So how did Nick Fuentes become Nick Fuentes? We'll be right back after this quick break.

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[D]

Foreign I'll start by saying the obvious. There is no good reason to take Fuentes versions of events at face value. I'm sure nearly every detail he articulated to Carlson, including the timelines, could be contested somewhere by somebody. In fact, some of it has been contested publicly, which we'll get into. Yet the narrative he tells about his own evolution is still informative because it's the narrative he tells about himself and it's similar to the one that I've heard a lot of people with his views articulate about themselves. Fuentes was in his late teens a pretty run of the mill Republican. As he entered college, he described himself, to paraphrase as a libertarian minded Republican. He door knocked for Ted Cruz and listened to Prageru. He says the beginning of his radicalization on race was through Mark Levin, whose fairly mainstream conservative show he once regularly listened to and whom he now frequently criticizes. According to Fuentes, Levin was the first person he asked the question, do we want the US to be a majority minority country? About the time Trump burst onto the political scene, Fuentes went deeper into the Internet to explore his political views. He found camaraderie in online message boards like 4chan. At the same time he started paying close attention to Trump. The President's anti immigrant sentiment, as Fuentes described it, aligned with questions he heard the mainstream conservative press asking about the potential future of a minority majority society. He bought what Trump was selling and he sensed early on that his message was much more resonant than what came from Trump's Republican counterparts. By the time Fuentes got into Boston University, still a teenager, he was an all out Trump supporter, rocking the make America great hat again on campus and inviting debate with his liberal classmates. It was there on campus that Fuentes went from a young MAGA Republican to to the Nick Fuentes we know today. Fuentes told Carlson the story of a black girl in a hijab coming up to him in the dining hall and calling him a racist for wearing a Trump hat. He says people threatened to beat him up because he was an open Trump supporter. He sparked a school wide divide that turned into a major story on campus when he debated the student government president. News articles from the time recall that when a first generation Pakistani student asked Fuentes during the debate, what should disqualify me from being in America? Fuentes told the room that people like the student are fine but quote, we don't need Pakistanis who blow up hospitals. The event was full of quotes like this. Some BU students left the room in protest and Fuentes recalled that he faced accusations of being a racist, a label he actually shied away from at the time. But as he relived the debate with Carlson, something else seeped to the surface. The contempt for the popular student government president whose supporters outnumbered Fuentes's in the room. Some liberal douchebag was how Fuentes described him while insisting to Carlson that he absolutely crushed his opponent in the debate. Almost 10 years later, the insecurity still seeps through in Fuentes retelling of events. This insecurity, interestingly, was also a topic of conversation when Candace Owens came on Carlson's show a few weeks prior. Owens told Carlson that she felt like Fuentes was lonely and insecure and that they almost invited him back on the show because they felt bad for him. After the debate, Fuente said he was approached by Cassie Akiva, then Cassie Dillon, a conservative student journalist who is now a Daily Wire reporter. Akiva told Fuente she had just live streamed the debate and that it had gotten tens of thousands of views online. She asked if they could do a post game interview. When they parted ways, Akiva suggested he could have a career in right wing media, perhaps at the Daily Wire, and promised to spread the word about his work. Akiva contests Fuentes's telling of events just for what it's worth. Not long after that interaction, Fuentes explained the next pivot point in his career, which was being quote tweeted by Ben Shapiro, the founder of the aforementioned Daily Wire. A quote tweet for the uninitiated is when someone shares something you said to their followers with a comment appended to it, rather than limiting their response to a direct reply under your message. It's often used as a way to amplify criticism of someone. Fuentes had tweeted at Shapiro, questioning why he never published a critical word about Israel. In response, Shapiro quote, tweeted him and accused him of being an anti Semite. At the time, Fuentes was essentially a nobody and Shapiro had hundreds of thousands of followers. Fuentes described this as setting him off on a new path, one where he saw the power of Jews and Israel supporters throughout the conservative media. Not long after, Fuentes recalled seeing President Obama abstain from a UN resolution condemning Israel as he left office. Then he watched in shock as Obama was accused of being an anti Semite across Fox News and conservative media. Why is he an anti Semite? Fuentes said to Carlson. He just followed US Policy. To Fuentes, the Obama example showed conservatives practicing the same thing the left does. Criticize one aspect of feminism and you're sexist. Criticize one member of a racial group and you're a racist. As Trump was in office and MAGA Republicans ascendant, Fuentes already viewed establishment Republicans and Jews and liberals as being out to destroy him. Around this point in their conversation, Carlson tried to drill down on how Fuentes identifies allies and enemies. Carlson brought up Joe Kent, a former candidate for Congress and current director of the National Counterterrorism center for the Trump administration. Carlson is very friendly with Kent, who had a public and vicious spat with Fuentes. Carlson also brought up Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Republican from Georgia, a representative Fuentes has publicly attacked despite her MAGA credentials. And the unspoken context of the inquiry, of course, was the feud Fuentes and Carlson were immersed in, then Carlson dismissing him as a quote, weird gay kid living with his parents, and Fuentes hammering Carlson for being a silver spoon elitist cosplaying as a working class populace. And then Fuentes said the thing that prompted me to write this piece. He offered a simple explanation that, as best I can tell, is the ideological cornerstone of his entire worldview. They attacked me first.

[F]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive producer for Tangle. Thank you for listening to this preview episode of our latest Friday piece. To complete this episode and to hear other Friday editions as well as ad free daily podcasts, Please go to readtangle.com where you can sign up for a podcast membership or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both the podcast and the newsletter. Issac, Ari and Camille will be here with the suspension of the Rules podcast and I will return on Monday. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Peace.

[D]

Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive producer is John Lowell. Today's episode was edited and engineered by John Lal. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead, Bailey, Saul, Lindsey, Knuth. Music for the podcast was produced by John Lowell. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our [e-mail].

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