PREVIEW - The Friday Edition: Okay, let's talk about "The Jews."

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Tangle – PREVIEW: The Friday Edition: Okay, let's talk about "The Jews."

Host: Isaac Saul
Date: December 12, 2025

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Overview

In this preview episode, Isaac Saul directly addresses the topic of "the Jews," focusing on antisemitism, stereotypes, and the ways public discourse often fails to address these issues with honesty and nuance. Drawing parallels between racial and religious stereotypes, Saul advocates for open, critical discussion rather than avoidance or silence, highlighting the importance of historical context and personal experience in challenging ignorance and prejudice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Deconstructing Stereotypes and Myths (01:56–06:58)

• Saul opens with a story from college: a friend's belief that Black Americans' dominance in basketball was due to a genetic legacy of slavery.
  • He dismantles this as a myth, explaining that slavery was a chaotic, violent institution, not a selective "breeding" process (03:00–03:55).
  • Emphasizes that athletic abilities arise over hundreds of generations, not merely a few (04:24–04:50).
  • Notes that social and cultural factors—Black Americans being excluded from higher-status careers, building sports pipelines—are much more powerful for explaining such trends.

    "All of this cultural pressure explains why a particular racial demographic outperforms others in professional sports, a highly meritocratic space." —Isaac Saul (05:12)

• Transition to the Jewish experience: Similarly, Saul argues, we must face antisemitic narratives head-on, not ignore them.
  • Antisemitism “thrives when swimming in ignorance.” (06:32)
  • Encourages Jews to use knowledge and honesty as defense instead of fear and secrecy.

Isaac Saul's Jewish Background & Personal Journey (08:02–11:22)

• Offers a candid history of his Jewish upbringing:

  • Raised in a reformed Jewish household; mother’s side is Ashkenazi, father is a convert.
  • Active in synagogue and religious events as a child, then rebelled as a teenager.
  • As a college student, rekindled his Jewish faith through connections with a campus rabbi and participation in Shabbat dinners.
  • Travelled to Israel, spent six months in a Baal Teshuva Yeshiva, deepening his religious and cultural knowledge.

  "That experience of living in Israel, traveling in the Middle East and spending half a year as a religious observant Jew, it informs much of my perspective on topics like Israel, Judaism and faith more broadly." —Isaac Saul (10:33)

• Returned to the U.S., integrated into Orthodox communities in Harlem and New York, faced challenges due to cultural and political conflicts within Jewish spaces.

• Describes a phase of “roaming” between communities, with fluctuating levels of religious observance and doubt.

  • Shares openly about periods of skepticism and faith.

    "Some days I find myself eating kosher and putting a yarmulk on and studying Talmud in my free time. Other days I find myself cursing Hashem and refusing to do morning prayer and wondering how any of this could be by design. That's my honest experience, one I'm sure anyone who allows skepticism to creep into their faith has shared." (11:22)

On the Rise and Nature of Antisemitism (11:38–14:35)

• Notes that antisemitism, which felt like a myth from childhood warnings, has returned in force.

  • Recalls dismissing his mother's warnings as paranoia.
  • Points out the “spotlight” on Jews in media, especially regarding Israel and antisemitism in the U.S.
  • Expresses unease ("Ask any self aware Jew about whether it's good when the Jews are being talked about and the answer will probably be no, please stop talking about us.") (12:42)

• Explains that attention on Jews, even when positive (“Jews sure win a lot of Nobel Prizes”), can sooner or later become dangerous.

• Asserts that causes for the focus on Jews are often just "placeholders"—blaming the group for all varieties of global events or problems, regardless of context.

  "These realities are fodder, but they are placeholders. How do I know this? Well, just take stock of things in the debate around Israel and Gaza. Jews are the villain. They're Israel, they're the victim... and the ones fighting the villain, Jews against genocide somehow all simultaneously." —Isaac Saul (13:02)

• Lists a wide array of issues for which Jews have recently been blamed, from world events (pandemics, political movements) to assassinations and even the weather, underscoring the irrational reach of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

Critique of Dialogue and Honest Exchange (13:47–14:35)

• Frustrated that discussions about Jews lack genuine exchanges of perspectives.

• Reflects on Kanye West’s public antisemitism and his own efforts to address both West’s valid observations and profound errors.

  • Points out that noticing trends (e.g., the number of Jews in powerful positions) isn’t inherently antisemitic, but weaponizing such observations in conspiratorial or hateful ways is.

  "Is he to be blamed for this observation which is generally true? No? Does stating such a thing make one an anti Semite? Not by itself, no. It becomes worrisome though, when that same person is accusing Jews of being the reason his wife cheated on him and tweeting promises to Go Death Gone 3 on Jewish people." —Isaac Saul (14:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Deconstructing Myths about Race and Genetics:
  “Basically, the only way this seemingly intuitive theory works is if you actually don't know anything about slavery at all, or genetics for that matter.” —Isaac Saul (03:55)

• On Facing Antisemitism with Honesty:
  “We have nothing to hide. It's okay. All we need is defenders who know our history and aren't ignorant enough to be tricked by antisemitism.” —Isaac Saul (06:39)

• On Faith and Doubt:
  “Some days I find myself eating kosher and putting a yarmulk on... Other days I find myself cursing Hashem and refusing to do morning prayer and wondering how any of this could be by design.” —Isaac Saul (11:22)

• Judging the Mood Among Jews:
  "Ask any self aware Jew about whether it's good when the Jews are being talked about and the answer will probably be no, please stop talking about us." —Isaac Saul (12:42)

• On the Absurdity of Blame:
  “Here's a short list of events and dynamics I've seen the Jews blamed for just in the last few years: a genocide in Gaza, anti-Jew hatred over the war in Gaza, mass migration, antisemitism broadly, pornography, Democrat success, Trump success, the COVID-19 pandemic, the COVID-19 vaccines, Charlie Kirk's assassination...” —Isaac Saul (13:15)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:56: Episode begins – Isaac Saul launches into the core discussion, using a popular myth about Black athletes to introduce the topic.
• 06:32: Transition to Saul’s argument on antisemitism, ignorance, and critical thinking.
• 08:02–11:22: Saul shares his personal Jewish journey, beliefs, doubts, and experiences in various communities.
• 11:38: Increase in antisemitism and reflections on Jewish visibility in mainstream discourse.
• 13:15: Recitation of the “list” of things Jews are blamed for, demonstrating the irrational breadth of antisemitic conspiracy.
• 13:47–14:35: Critique of public dialogue surrounding Jews, referencing Kanye West and the challenges of honest exchanges about sensitive subjects.

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Tone and Style

Saul’s tone is candid, self-reflective, sometimes wry, and always direct. He mixes personal anecdotes and broad historical analysis, seeking not just to defend against antisemitism but to promote honest, informed discussion—and to admit uncertainty and vulnerability when necessary.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is both a personal essay and a cultural critique, offering insight into the persistence and pervasiveness of antisemitism as well as a rare, honest look at Jewish identity and faith. Saul’s approach is to pierce through taboo and euphemism, making the case that only open, informed dialogue can counteract old stereotypes and the renewed "curiosity" about Jews in public life.

Listeners are left with a challenge to address, not avoid, uncomfortable questions and to equip themselves with history and knowledge as the best defense against both antisemitism and the ignorance that fuels it.

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Transcript

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From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

[Isaac Saul]

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tangled Podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul, and today we're gonna talk about the Jews. When I was in college, a friend told me that black people were overrepresented in professional basketball because American slavery was an exercise that in survival of the fittest and that the black Americans who made it to the modern era were therefore predisposed to be more athletic. At first blush, this explanation made some sense. Even as an adult, I can see how it feels intuitive. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's a commonly held belief today. Of course, the idea only really works if you're ignorant like I was the first time I heard it. To buy this explanation, you have to think slavery was a highly selective process of breeding big strong men men to labor in the fields. Basically the story that you see in Hollywood. In reality, slavery was a brutal, messy exercise in violence and greed. It fueled rampant malnutrition and disease that limited the lifespans of slaves who were sold and traded and killed with little thought or reason. To the extent that slave breeding happened at all, it was usually through haphazard force coupling or masters raping their female slaves and then enslaving their own children. The work itself was varied too. More than just manning farms, it involved domestic work, crafting, cooking and childcare. Basically, the only way this seemingly intuitive theory works is if you actually don't know anything about slavery at all, or genetics for that matter. Since physical characteristics of a group require hundreds of generations to manifest, not just four or five, deconstructing a silly idea like this is simple enough. But to close the loop, you have to be able to offer real explanations too. Otherwise, people will continue to invent their own theories to explain the patterns they can see with their own two eyes. Researchers discovered that a higher concentration of type 2 muscle fibers, or fast twitch muscles, was present in populations of West African descent. Similar observations apply to distance runners from East Africa or powerlifters from southern or Eastern Europe. These are just bell curve trends, not destiny. One athlete isn't going to be faster or stronger than another just because they are part of one group. But we don't get to these explanations without first noticing the trends. There's also a cultural explanation rooted in historical fact. Black Americans were excluded from high status careers for generations, so they turned to sports and entertainment. Sports like basketball became highly visible routes to success in the black community. And community institutions like the YMCA or AAU or HBCUs. They built pipelines for young black kids to play basketball and hone their craft at an early age so they could use their skills to get scholarships and unlock the opportunities available to them. All of this cultural pressure explains why a particular racial demographic outperforms others in professional sports, a highly meritocratic space. This same concept applies to antisemitism. Something I've learned over the years of talking about the Jews is that it helps to think critically about the things people are saying and address them head on. It has been my experience that antisemitism, like racism, thrives when swimming in ignorance. So my message for Jews or friends of Jews interested in combating antisemitism is we have nothing to hide. It's okay. All we need is defenders who know our history and aren't ignorant enough to be tricked by antisemitism. You can let your guard down and address these issues honestly. And today, in an effort to walk that walk, I'D like to do just that. 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[Isaac Saul]

Ask your rheumatologist about Cosentyx. But first, a little bit about me. Broadly speaking, I reference my Judaism when I think it's relevant for readers. I'm a proud Jew. I just don't want it to be a central theme of my work. With a name like Isaac Saul, most people make assumptions Anyway, still, before we begin, here's a little bit about me. I was raised in a reformed Jewish household. My mom's side is the European Ashkenazi kind of Jew, with ancestors hailing from Russia and Lithuania and Austria. My dad is a convert, having gone through a traditional conversion process before I was born. His roots are deeply tied to the Philadelphia Quakers. The story in our family is that we were the descendants of Roger Williams, the founder of Rhode island, who championed the separation of church and state. When I was a kid, there was no ambiguity about my faith, religion or ethnicity. We were not half and half. I went to synagogue for all the high holidays. I went to Tuesday and Sunday school every week. I was bar Mitzvahed. I spent Christmas eating Chinese food and going to the movies with other Jews. As a teenager, I rebelled, went through my I am an atheist and smarter than all of you years and declared that I'd never return to synagogue. I grew somewhat less annoying and less arrogant by the time I got to college and I realized how much I missed Judaism. Not just culturally, which I can never give up, but religiously too. I missed the faith and the practice that came with it. In the midst of my uncertainty, a campus rabbi invited me to his house for Shabbat dinner. I accepted, I went, and then I ended up going almost every Friday night for several years in college. This relationship motivated me to take my birthright trip to Israel, which inspired a six month stay at a BAAL Teshuva Yeshiva in East Jerusalem after I graduated. Balt Yeshua yeshivas are designed to cater specifically to Jews like me, who were not raised in Orthodox backgrounds but wanted to become religiously observant. That experience of living in Israel, traveling in the Middle east and spending half a year as a religious observant Jew, it informs much of my perspective on topics like Israel, Judaism and faith more broadly. When I got back to the U.S. i moved to New York, found an Orthodox synagogue in Harlem, and formed a close relationship with a rabbi there. I learned and studied and immersed myself in the community for the next three or four years, until tragically, political and culture war issues tore the synagogue apart, culminating in the rabbi being forced out after a rather moving sermon he gave on the scriptural basis for welcoming trans people into religious spaces. Since then I've been. How do I say it? Roaming, moving in and out of Jewish communities in New York and Philadelphia, trying to find a new home, a new community to attach myself to, going through periods of deep observance and periods of renegade refusal to participate. Some days I find myself eating kosher and putting a yarmulk on and studying Talmud in my free time. Other days I find myself cursing Hashem and refusing to do morning prayer and wondering how any of this could be by design. That's my honest experience, one I'm sure anyone who allows skepticism to creep into their faith has shared. Amid all this, antisemitism began to bloom around me. Antisemitism, the kind my mom used to warn me about. It always felt like a myth. I thought she was paranoid to believe it was still here, just lying dormant like crazed cicadas, waiting for their moment to rise and shriek their hate. But in case you haven't noticed, we Jews have been in the headlines a lot recently. Historically speaking, this is not a good sign. Ask any self aware Jew about whether it's good when the Jews are being talked about and the answer will probably be no, please stop talking about us. Even when the attention might sound positive, like, wow, Jews sure win a lot of Nobel Prizes, you know. The conversation will inevitably turn dark. Unfortunately, both for me and all the other Jews following along, I don't think ignoring the limelight is an option. We're everywhere. We're everything. We're all at once. And so we have to respond. In 2025, the excuses for why Jews are getting so much attention is largely the Jewish state's actions in Gaza and organized Jewry's political influence in the United States. But the truth, the one I realized now but denied before, is that it was always going to be something. These realities are fodder, but they are placeholders. How do I know this? Well, just take stock of things in the debate around Israel and Gaza. Jews are the villain. They're Israel, they're the victim. Jewish victims of October 7 and antisemitism since and the ones fighting the villain Jews against genocide somehow all simultaneously. When Charlie Kirk was killed, there was suddenly talk about the hummus eaters who crucified Jesus and all the very large donations that went to Trump from Jewish donors. Weaselly youthful whites raising a generation of Hitler loving youth are ascendant at the exact same time, the most famous black artists and radio hosts are quote unquote asking questions. And they're all very curious about the Jews. Here's a short list of events and dynamics I've seen the Jews blamed for just in the last few years a genocide in Gaza, anti Jew hatred over the war in Gaza, mass migration, anti Semitism, broadly pornography Democrats success, Trump success, the COVID 19 pandemic, the COVID 19 vaccines, Charlie Kirk's assassination, JFK's assassination, RFK's assassination, Abraham Lincoln's assassination. Yes, seriously. Social decay in America, social decay in Ireland, child sex trafficking, the Bolshevik revolution, the weather good and bad, rigged elections good and bad, wokeism and also anti woke culture all at once. One thing that frustrates me about the dialogue around Jews is that it never seems to include an honest exchange of perspectives. A couple years ago, when Kanye west was first coming out as a loud and proud anti Semite, I came forward to try to have the discussion. West was right about some stuff, he was so, so very wrong about many others. But he looked around at the music industry and he saw lots of Jews in positions of power. Is he to be blamed for this observation which is generally true? No? Does stating such a thing make one an anti Semite? Not by itself, no. It becomes worrisome though, when that same person is accusing Jews of being the reason his wife cheated on him and tweeting promises To Go Death Gone 3.

[John Wall]

On Jewish people Hey everybody, this is John, Executive Producer for Tangle. We hope you enjoyed this preview of our latest episode. If you are not currently a newsletter subscriber or a premium podcast subscriber and you are enjoying this content and would like to finish it, you can go to readtangle.com and sign up for a newsletter subscription. Or you can sign up for a podcast subscription or a bundled subscription which gets you both the podcast and the newsletter and unlocks the rest of this episode as well as ad free daily podcasts, more Friday editions, Sunday editions, bonus content, interviews and so much more. Most importantly, we just want to say thank you so much for your support. We're working hard to bring you much more content and more offerings. So stay tuned. I will join you again for the daily podcast. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day y'.

[Isaac Saul]

All.

[John Wall]

Peace.

[Isaac Saul]

Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our Executive Producer is John Wall. Today's episode was edited and engineered by John Wall. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will K. Back and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead Bailey, Saul Lindsey Knuth and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75 and John Law. And to learn more about Tango and to sign up for a membership, please visit our [e-mail].

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[Isaac Saul]

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[Isaac Saul]

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[Isaac Saul]

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