Tangle Podcast Summary

Episode: PREVIEW – The Friday Edition: What does the government actually know about you?

Host: Isaac Saul
Date: September 5, 2025

Overview

This special episode of the Tangle podcast investigates a provocative question: What does the government actually know about you? Prompted by team member Russell Nystrom and explored collaboratively with editors Lindsay Knuth and Audrey Moorhead, the episode aims to unearth the extent, methods, and implications of government data collection in America. Drawing on investigative examples, expert interviews, and legal context, the Tangle team provides an eye-opening look at both the voluntary and covert ways our personal information ends up in government databases and what that means for privacy, security, and public policy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Does the Government Get Your Data? (03:11–07:00)

• Voluntary Disclosure: Most people expect the government to know essentials such as Social Security numbers, birth certificates, and data supplied for services like taxes or loans.
  • "Every US citizen born since 1933 has had a birth certificate issued by their state government, and since 1946 all live births have been tracked federally by the National Vital Statistics System."
    — Narrator/Reporter (04:49)
• Biometric Data Collection:
  • Biometric data (fingerprints, facial recognition) is increasingly gathered at ports of entry, during law enforcement interactions, and for government programs like TSA Precheck.
  • While often implicitly consented to (e.g., by traversing airport security), sometimes it’s a requirement for benefits or entry.
• Inter-Agency Data Friction:
  • The Privacy Act of 1974 generally forbids sharing of personal data between agencies, barring certain exceptions (like criminal investigations). This creates protective "friction," but can slow government efficiency.

“Internet law specialist and Electric Frontier Foundation executive director Cindy Cohn said this friction in the data sharing process can prevent misuse and protect the privacy of Americans’ data. But this friction comes at the expense of government efficiency.”
— Narrator/Reporter (10:32)

2. Unseen and Indirect Government Data Collection (12:28–15:30)

• Web Scraping and Data Brokers:
  • Agencies use automated bots, crawlers, and spiders to harvest public website and social media data.
  • More concerning is the practice of buying data from commercial brokers. Personal info, sometimes supposedly anonymized, can often be easily re-identified.
• Scale of Industry:
  • The global data broker market reached nearly $300 billion in 2024 and is projected to grow significantly.
• Law Enforcement Use and Failure of Anonymization:
  • By obtaining data from devices or brokers, law enforcement can reconstruct not only digital but physical movements with high precision.

“Even if I was just an anonymized number, my behavior was as unique as a fingerprint… There’s no way to anonymize my identity in a dataset like geolocation.”
— Journalist Byron Tao (13:50)

3. Legal Rights and Remaining Gaps (15:30–18:43)

• Legal Framework:
  • The Privacy Act and the Fourth Amendment provide some protections; notably, certain Supreme Court cases have extended these to digital data.
  • Loopholes remain—especially around the purchase of commercial data without oversight.
• Recent and Proposed Legislation:
  • The “Fourth Amendment is Not For Sale Act” would attempt to close the loophole enabling government purchase of personal data from brokers without warrants—passed in the House, pending in the Senate.

“Everybody has a reason to be concerned about surveillance… If people take away from this that there are not enough legal protections for our data, that is the correct takeaway.”
— Jennifer Granik, ACLU Cybersecurity Lawyer (18:20)

4. Why Does the Government Want/Need All This Data? (19:45–26:05)

• Ambivalence and Benefits:
  • Many Americans are unaware or indifferent to government data capture, especially when streamlining services is cited as a benefit.
  • Enhanced data sharing could reduce inefficiency and improve access, such as enrolling more eligible citizens in public benefits.
• Combating Fraud:
  • Government waste (e.g., misdirected payments) often results from data silos or lack of cross-checks. Inter-agency sharing can mitigate multi-billion dollar errors.
• Security & Crisis Response:
  • Post-9/11, government and private entities recognized better “connecting the dots” could prevent terrorism.
  • Laws like the Patriot Act and FISA 702 were enacted to allow better intelligence sharing—sometimes ensnaring Americans incidentally.
  • During emergencies (e.g., COVID-19), the need for speed led to loosened cross-checks, resulting in improper payments but also faster aid distribution.

“Their failure to prevent the tragedy [9/11] was a failure to connect the dots…”
— Byron Tao, referencing Means of Control (22:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Limits of Anonymization:

  “Even if I was just an anonymized number, my behavior was as unique as a fingerprint… There’s no way to anonymize my identity in a dataset like geolocation.”
  — Byron Tao, Journalist (13:50)

• On Legal Protections:

  “Everybody has a reason to be concerned about surveillance… If people take away from this that there are not enough legal protections for our data, that is the correct takeaway.”
  — Jennifer Granik, ACLU Cybersecurity Lawyer (18:20)

• On Government Efficiency vs. Privacy:

  “This friction in the data sharing process can prevent misuse and protect the privacy of Americans’ data. But this friction comes at the expense of government efficiency.”
  — Cindy Cohn, Executive Director, Electronic Frontier Foundation (10:32)

• On Security Justifications:

  “Their failure to prevent the tragedy [9/11] was a failure to connect the dots, and a missed opportunity to capitalize on the disparate threads of data…”
  — Byron Tao (22:15)

Important Timestamps

• [03:11] Introduction of the main question and investigative context by Isaac Saul
• [04:14] Deep dive into examples of government data collection (e.g., Measurement Systems case, ICE data purchases)
• [07:00–12:28] Overview of personal data government collects with/without consent
• [12:37] Detailed explanation of hidden data acquisition (scraping, data brokers)
• [15:30] Legal landscape and gaps in protections, plus recent legislative attempts to address those gaps
• [19:45] Discussion of why the government undertakes such extensive data collection and sharing
• [22:00+] Discussion of security, fraud, and emergency policy justifications

Final Takeaways

• The government’s knowledge of its citizens is both broader and deeper than most realize, due to a combination of voluntary disclosures, surreptitious data acquisition, and purchases from commercial data brokers.
• Legal protections lag behind technological change, leaving Americans with real, but limited, control over their data privacy.
• There is an ongoing tension between safeguarding privacy and improving government efficiency, public safety, and crisis response. Many experts argue that existing laws do not sufficiently protect citizen privacy in the digital era.

For listeners, the message is clear: If you’re concerned about government surveillance and your personal data, you’re right to be.