PREVIEW - The Friday Edition: Why due process still matters.

Summary

Tangle Podcast Episode Summary: "PREVIEW - The Friday Edition: Why Due Process Still Matters"

Release Date: April 4, 2025
Host: Will K Back (filling in for Isaac Saul)
Podcast: Tangle, Hosted by Isaac Saul

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Introduction

In the preview episode of Tangle's Friday Edition, host Will K Back steps in for Executive Editor Isaac Saul, who is traveling back to the East Coast. Will introduces listeners to the episode's focus: a personal essay by Isaac titled "Why Due Process Still Matters." This episode delves into the critical importance of due process in the American legal and political landscape, especially in the context of contemporary immigration policies.

Isaac Saul's Personal Experience

Will begins by sharing Isaac Saul's personal ordeal, where Isaac was defamed in a niche online community:

"A few weeks ago someone made a defamatory post about me on a forum of my peers. The post accused me of, quote, 'manufacturing consent for mass murder in Gaza,' being a quote, 'stenographer for the military-industrial complex,' and quote, 'using fabricated sources to write about a non-existent Uyghur genocide in China.'"
[01:21]

Isaac clarifies that these allegations were entirely false, emphasizing his genuine activism against the military-industrial complex and his stance on international human rights issues. Despite the defamatory nature of the post, its limited reach and eventual removal minimized personal repercussions. However, Isaac underscores the psychological impact of such baseless accusations and the importance of having the means to defend oneself legally.

Historical Context of Due Process

Isaac provides a historical backdrop to the concept of due process, tracing its origins to the Magna Carta:

"Much of the foundation of our conception of legal rights comes from the Magna Carta... in the United States, the Fifth Amendment was ratified with the Bill of Rights in 1791 and carries on the bulk of the Magna Carta's legal provisions, declaring that, quote, 'no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.'"
[03:45]

He further highlights the significance of the 14th Amendment in 1868, which extended due process rights to state actions, reinforcing that these protections are fundamental to both federal and state governance.

Current Immigration Policies and Their Implications

The discussion shifts to the contemporary application of due process, particularly under President Donald Trump's administration, which has been critiqued for expanding executive authority to curb illegal immigration. Isaac outlines how these policies have led to controversial deportations affecting various groups:

"President Donald Trump... has been stretching his executive authority as far as he can. His orders target immigrants of various stripes... violent criminals... student protesters... legal immigrants with no criminal record..."
[07:04]

Case Studies Highlighting Due Process Issues

Isaac presents several real-life cases that exemplify the contentious nature of due process in immigration enforcement:

1. Mahmoud Khalil: A Palestinian graduate student arrested for alleged pro-Hamas activities, currently detained without formal charges.
2. Rumesia Ozturk: A Fulbright scholar arrested after publishing an op-ed advocating for US divestment from Israel.
3. Alireza Daroudi: An Iranian doctoral student detained under national security pretenses without evidence of criminal activity.
4. Eduardo Nunez Gonzalez: A business owner with a clean record, arrested under dubious circumstances while performing mundane tasks.
5. Kilmar Abrego Garcia: A Maryland father deported to El Salvador despite previous protections due to administrative errors, now imprisoned under violent gang affiliations.

These cases illustrate the blurred lines in legal grounds for deportation and the inconsistent application of due process rights for noncitizens.

Legal and Philosophical Debates on Due Process for Immigrants

Isaac delves into the legal debates surrounding due process for immigrants, citing the contrasting views between the left and the federal government:

"The left is keen to cite conservative icon Antonin Scalia, who famously wrote that it is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law in deportation proceedings, end quote."
[10:30]

Conversely, the federal government has argued in Supreme Court cases that expedited removal processes for noncitizens can limit judicial review without violating due process. This dichotomy underscores a fundamental philosophical divide:

"Some people believe that noncitizens in America deserve due process, and others believe they don't. That's really it."
[11:45]

Isaac advocates for the extension of due process protections to all individuals on American soil, irrespective of their immigration status, emphasizing the moral and ethical imperatives over purely legalistic considerations.

Host's Perspective and Conclusion

Will K Back articulates his support for universal due process rights, aligning with Isaac's stance. He underscores the moral responsibility to ensure that "everyone on American soil... must be given the benefits of due process, however costly and sometimes impractical or inconvenient it might be."

The episode concludes with the tragic case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, highlighting the human cost of bypassing due process safeguards:

"The deportation of Abrego Garcia to El Salvador provides a great reason why the question of whether Garcia was legally removable is not really in doubt... The larger issue is that the court was clear that he should have been protected from deportation to El Salvador... now, the administration has placed him inside of prison."
[11:55]

Isaac's essay serves as a poignant reminder of the indispensable role due process plays in safeguarding individual rights against arbitrary governmental actions, especially in the volatile arena of immigration policy.

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Conclusion

This preview of Tangle's Friday Edition offers a compelling exploration of due process, intertwining personal narrative with historical context and contemporary legal debates. Through Isaac Saul's essay and Will K Back's insightful narration, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of why due process remains a cornerstone of justice and civil liberties in the United States.

For those interested in the full episode and further discussions, subscribing to Tangle's newsletter or premium podcast service is recommended.

Transcript

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[Will K Back]

To use Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast. I'm Senior Editor Will K Back. I'm filling in for Executive Editor Isaac Saul today to bring you a special Friday edition. Isaac is traveling back to the east coast from West Texas today, so he is on the road this morning and not able to record the podcast. So I'm stepping in and I will be reading his essay that he published in the newsletter today which is titled why Due Process Still Matters. This is a personal essay written by Isaac, so I'll be reading it in the first person. A few weeks ago someone made a defamatory post about me on a forum of my peers. The post accused me of, quote, manufacturing consent for mass murder in Gaza, being a quote, stenographer for the military industrial complex, and quote, using fabricated sources to write about a non existent Uyghur genocide in China. I'm an ultimate Frisbee player and this person had made the post anonymously in a niche Reddit forum for ultimate players, effectively slandering me to a community of people I interact with on a daily basis. In my personal life, it didn't matter that none of it was true. For the record, I'm a frequent critic of the military industrial complex, have repeatedly called for a ceasefire in Israel, have never fabricated a source in my life, and believe the persecution of Uyghurs in China is very real but the post picked up a few comments and the author got to plant a seed of doubt about me to my friends and my community. In this case, I opted not to respond. The post got little traction and it was eventually taken down for violating the rules of the forum where it was posted. So the stakes were pretty low. But it's still a stomach turning, infuriating experience to be accused of something you're innocent of. It would have been even worse if I didn't have the ability to respond to said allegations. When the stakes are higher, when the consequences are, say, being deported from the country you live in, separated from your family, or sent to a maximum security prison, I imagine nightmare is a wholly insufficient description. Of course, most of us like to imagine that we can defend ourselves from false accusations leveled against us, that the world is just and truth will prevail. In particular, if you're living in the Western world in 2025, you'd be forgiven for thinking that due process is some kind of inalienable right, not something granted by the government. But the chilling truth is that due process rights don't exist everywhere. They're applied inconsistently, and even in the most democratic and free societies like ours in the US they can become relics under the wrong circumstances. Indeed, the concept has been and continues to be hotly debated. Before we turn to the present, I think it's worth remembering why due process exists at all. Much of the foundation of our conception of legal rights comes from the Magna carta, an enduring 13th century document in which King John of England pledged to act in accordance with the law and promised that his people would be given basic procedural legal rights in the United States, the Fifth Amendment was ratified with the Bill of Rights in 1791 and carries on the bulk of the Magna Carta's legal provisions, declaring that, quote, no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law. In 1868, the 14th Amendment further assured that due process rights extended to the state level, not just the federal While a great deal of scholarly debate continues over how narrow the scope of the Fifth Amendment was or is, and whether the 14th Amendment was or wasn't necessary, that's the conventional understanding of how those amendments came to be.

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[Will K Back]

Over the last few weeks, debates over these amendments have not merely been academic, but instead have been placed at the forefront of American society. President Donald Trump, in pursuit of his promise to reduce illegal immigration to the United States, has been stretching his executive authority as far as he can. His orders target immigrants of various stripes, violent criminals here illegally, student protesters here on green cards or student visas, and legal immigrants with no criminal record or any other apparent cause for deportation. Consider a sampling of the cases that have sparked debate. First is Mahmoud Khalil, a Palestinian graduate student here on a green card who was arrested by ICE for alleged pro Hamas activity. Weeks later, he's still sitting in a Louisiana detention center 1,400 miles away from his wife, and no charges have been brought against him, possibly in the same facility, although eerily we don't know for sure. Is Rumesia Ozturk, a Fulbright scholar arrested in Boston by six masked ICE agents for allegedly acting in support of Hamas? The action that prompted her arrest was an op ed she wrote for her college newspaper that, at its most brazen, called for US Divestment from Israel. The cases don't get stronger from there. Iranian doctoral student Alireza Daroudi was rounded up under the guise of national security, but the government has not produced any evidence that he's ever even participated in a protest. Eduardo Nunez Gonzalez is a business owner with a clean record here on a legal work permit and married to a US Citizen. He was arrested while taking out the trash. Baker Neri Alvarado was sent to an El Salvador prison, and the probable cause for his deportation was a tattoo promoting autism awareness in honor of his 15 year old brother. Perhaps most notable of all is Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Abrego Garcia's story burst onto the national scene this week after the Atlantic ran a piece on the Trump administration inadvertently deporting a, quote, Maryland father to a prison in El Salvador in 2019. Abrego Garcia had been granted an order blocking his deportation to his home country of El Salvador due to threats on his life. The Trump administration cited a, quote, administrative error for his deportation, and now it says it has no way to get him back from the prison. Now, much about Abrego Garcia's story is sympathetic. He has no criminal record. He's married to an American citizen. He is the father to a disabled and autistic child. He is a union sheet metal worker. And he regularly checked in with Immigrations and Custom Enforcement as he was supposed to. But his case is also complicated. He crossed the border illegally in 2012, and in 2019, he was accused of being a member of Ms. 13, an accusation an immigration judge affirmed. He only claimed to be fleeing violence in El Salvador after being arrested and facing deportation in 2019, and he still was eligible for removal, just not to El Salvador. While he regularly checked in with ice, he has reportedly skipped several court appearances for traffic violations. Now, each of the examples above of immigrants being removed from the country touches on a complex gray area of the law, from the use of the Alien Enemies act to the differences in the rights of green card holders versus student visa holders. The most salient open question, however, is the rights that unauthorized migrants have in the United States. The left is keen to cite conservative icon Antonin Scalia, who famously wrote that it is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law in deportation proceedings, end quote. On the other hand, the federal government has successfully argued in a few notable Supreme Court cases that limited judicial review for expedited removal of non citizens does not violate due process laws. These debates are important and fraught and will surely impact the future of immigration law. But the deeper conflict is less about legal theory and more a fundamental difference in philosophy. Some people believe that noncitizens in America deserve due process, and others believe they don't. That's really it. That's the heart of the debate. And if you're interested in where I stand, I'm firmly in the camp of people who believe that everyone on American soil, regardless of immigration status, accusation or circumstance, must be given the benefits of due process, however costly and sometimes impractical or inconvenient it might be. The deportation of Abrego Garcia to El Salvador provides a great reason why the question of whether Garcia was legally removable is not really in doubt. The federal government had legal grounds to deport him. The larger issue is that the court was clear that he should have been protected from deportation to El Salvador, the country he claims to have fled because of risk from gang members. And now, of course, the administration has placed him inside of prison.

[John Law]

Hey everybody, this is John, Executive Producer for Tangle. We hope you enjoyed this preview of our latest Friday edition. If you are not currently a newsletter subscriber or a premium podcast subscriber and you are enjoying this content and would like to finish it, you can go to readtangle.com and sign up for a newsletter subscription. Or you can sign up for a podcast subscription or a bundled subscription which gets you both the podcast and the newsletter and unlocks the rest of this episode as well as ad free daily podcasts, more Friday editions, Sunday editions, bonus content, interviews and so much more. Most importantly, we just want to say thank you so much for your support. We're working hard to bring you much more content and more offerings, so stay tuned. Isaac and Ari will be here for the Sunday podcast and I will join you for the daily podcast on Monday. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a fantastic weekend, y'all. Peace.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you for listening to this Tangle Media Production. Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive Producer is John Lal. Today's episode was edited and engineered by John Lal. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Hunter Casperson, Audrey Moorhead Bailey, Saul Lindsey Knuth and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by John Law. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our [e-mail].

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