PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Ari and Jon discuss DOGE, Dems, and dynamics.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Tangle – Episode Preview: Ari and Jon Discuss DOGE, Dems, and Dynamics

Episode Information

• Title: PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Ari and Jon discuss DOGE, Dems, and dynamics
• Host/Author: Isaac Saul
• Release Date: February 23, 2025
• Description: Independent, non-partisan politics news where you'll hear the best arguments from across the political spectrum on the news of the day. Plus, fascinating interviews with people in the political world.

---

Introduction

The episode kicks off with the hosts, Isaac Saul and John Law, setting the stage for an in-depth discussion on the controversial Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) initiative spearheaded by Elon Musk. They delve into the complexities surrounding DOGE's effectiveness, legality, and the broader political implications.

Main Discussion: DOGE and Its Implications

John Law introduces the primary topic, expressing frustration over the criticisms DOGE faces:

“DOGE is often not actually effective at doing the thing it says it wants to do, which is cutting fraud, waste, and just spending in general.”
(01:21)

He argues that DOGE's efforts to trim the federal budget are minimal compared to the total federal spending, highlighting the inefficacy of DOGE's impact:

“If you're grinding for two weeks, cutting every budget, contract, and employee that you can find, and you can get to 2 billion, which is a huge number, that is 1 7,000th of federal spending.”
(08:00)

Political Bias and Criticism

John Law elaborates on the challenges of maintaining an unbiased perspective while critiquing governmental actions:

“When I criticize something about this administration... if I stop short of saying some key term or shibboleth that people on the left want me to use, I'm not doing it severely enough.”
(09:30)

He draws parallels with past administrations, mentioning Trump's characterization as "chaotic" and Musk's DOGE facing accusations of illegality without concrete evidence:

“With Musk and Doge, that shibboleth seems to be illegal. You have to say, this is against the law, it's illegal, and we don't know that it is.”
(11:15)

Ari Weitzman adds context by comparing DOGE's situation with Biden's student debt relief efforts, emphasizing the importance of legal scrutiny over partisan labeling:

“The higher the notes go, the more emotional it feels... whether or not they're illegal is not something you can just blanketly throw around.”
(10:43)

Legal Perspectives on DOGE

The episode introduces Ray Brescia, an associate dean and law professor at Albany Law School, who provides professional insights into DOGE's legal standing.

Ray Brescia questions the foundational legality of DOGE:

“It is not clear that creating a federal department under the digital service is something that a president can do without congressional approval or without funding that is set by Congress.”
(21:57)

He scrutinizes DOGE's actions, such as laying off protected civil servants and potential conflicts of interest involving Musk’s business dealings with the federal government:

“The Musk suite of companies all have extensive business dealings with the federal government... I can't imagine a clearer conflict of interest.”
(24:05)

Brescia emphasizes the need for transparency and legal justification regarding DOGE’s operations:

“What are they doing that's legal? I think that's a legitimate question.”
(25:18)

Comparative Analysis and Precedents

John Law draws historical parallels to provide context for DOGE's actions, referencing Mick Mulvaney's 2018 attempt to reduce the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s budget:

“In 2018, Mick Mulvaney asked for $0 for the consumer Financial Protection Bureau... I don't think that it was illegal.”
(27:00)

Ari Weitzman comments on the cultural clash between government bureaucracy and the tech industry's rapid pace:

“The process of government in general is pretty slow... the tech industry runs on move fast and break things.”
(16:55)

Conclusion and Takeaways

The hosts conclude by reiterating the importance of scrutinizing DOGE's actions beyond partisan narratives. They advocate for a balanced approach that questions legality and effectiveness without succumbing to biased rhetoric.

John Law wraps up the segment, highlighting the need for legal clarity and accountability:

“Is all of that illegal? I guess we'll find out.”
(17:22)

Ray Brescia underscores the necessity for judicial oversight and clear legislative frameworks to govern entities like DOGE:

“There is precedence for things we do not like happening that aren't necessarily illegal.”
(28:29)

---

Key Takeaways

1. Effectiveness of DOGE: The Department of Government Efficiency under Elon Musk is criticized for its minimal impact on the federal budget relative to total spending.

2. Legality Concerns: There is significant debate over whether DOGE's actions, including mass layoffs and potential conflicts of interest, are legal. Legal experts like Ray Brescia argue for the necessity of transparent legal frameworks.

3. Political Bias: The podcast emphasizes the importance of maintaining an unbiased perspective while critiquing governmental actions, avoiding partisan labels unless legally substantiated.

4. Historical Context: Past government actions, such as Mick Mulvaney’s attempts to defund the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, are used as precedents to understand DOGE's current operations.

5. Industry vs. Government: The cultural differences between the tech industry's rapid innovation and government's slow bureaucratic processes create inherent tensions in initiatives like DOGE.

---

Notable Quotes

• John Law (01:21): “DOGE is often not actually effective at doing the thing it says it wants to do, which is cutting fraud, waste, and just spending in general.”

• John Law (09:30): “When I criticize something about this administration... if I stop short of saying some key term or shibboleth that people on the left want me to use, I'm not doing it severely enough.”

• Ray Brescia (21:57): “It is not clear that creating a federal department under the digital service is something that a president can do without congressional approval or without funding that is set by Congress.”

• Ari Weitzman (16:55): “The process of government in general is pretty slow... the tech industry runs on move fast and break things.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Tangle provides a critical examination of DOGE’s role in government efficiency, raising pertinent questions about legality and effectiveness. By incorporating expert opinions and historical context, Isaac Saul and his co-hosts deliver a nuanced discussion aimed at fostering informed political discourse.

For those interested in the intersection of politics, law, and technology, this episode offers valuable insights and encourages listeners to think critically about governmental reforms and their broader implications.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Isaac Saul]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee full [e-mail] this.

[Ari Weitzman]

Episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Isaac Saul]

Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market, the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[John Law]

Coming up, John joins me on the pod so we can talk about fraud and doge, false equivalency and Doge legality and Doge and then some things that aren't doge. John's going to talk about Democrats, we're going to talk a little bit more about our grievances, then we're going to get out of here. I sit down with Ray Brescia, law professor. We learn a lot, we talk a lot, we laugh and cry. It's a good one.

[Isaac Saul]

From executive producer Isaac Saul. This is Tangle.

[John Law]

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tango Podcast, a place where you can get perspectives from across the political. John, help me out. How do you say this? I'm here with John Law Today, our executive producer and he's got the script down much better than I have. Why don't you do the intro for us, bud?

[Ari Weitzman]

Really, it's okay. That's an honor. I'd love to. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of our take. I am very, very honored to be co hosting today's episode with the brilliant and illustrious Ari Weitzman, our managing editor.

[John Law]

Who often is able to speak but sometimes isn't. So I did this purposefully to warm the seat up for John because I am moving into the co hosting chair or the hosting chair, and left the co hosting chair for Will, who is at Hamilton College today, his alma mater, giving a talk about tangle. And he's out of that chair. And we've had a bit of a rotating cast, so stepping from behind the mic to in front of it is our executive producer, who. I mean, I feel like the hard part of recording a podcast is when you actually have to do the sound editing yourself. I could not imagine listening to my own voice and cutting it up. I. And like, I'm so, so. I really admire that you're able to do that because I would just be nuts with self consciousness there.

[Ari Weitzman]

Honestly, there is a degree to which, you know, I'm going to be more critical of myself and even that, like how many ums and ahs, I might say, and, you know, the continuity of the flow and keeping it going, that sort of thing always kind of sits with me. I'm like, I want to make sure it sounds right and this will be a conversation I want to get into later. But also now that we're getting these podcast survey responses and I'm seeing some of the feedback, it's very interesting. And shout out, by the way, to everybody, we've gotten over 1,000 responses on that podcast survey. So thank you all so, so much for participating in that and sharing your likes, dislikes, your feelings on the podcast so far and what you'd like to see more of from us, that's really, really helpful information. We're going to go over it, we're going to comb over it and make sure that we really understand what it is that you want to see more of going forward.

[John Law]

Feedback is a gift. Criticism too, though, often a tough gift to receive. I think with you, the feedback we get a lot is his voice is AI. He's not real. You're literally so good of a speaker most of the time on the podcast that people don't believe you're a person. So maybe it's nice to have you put in some ums and uhs and laughs. Like it'll humanize the robot a bit.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm not sure how to take it. On the one hand, I'M like, it feels a little weird to be called robotic. There was like a couple, not very many, but a couple of comments that were like, it sounds a bit monotonous. And I'm like, I don't want to be too technical, but monotonous would be like, very straight, toned, robotic, no dynamics whatsoever. So I get it, though, that there are definitely people who, when you hear them speak, have a certain timbre to their voice. And so when they're speaking, their dynamics feel a lot more present and the emphasis on certain things feels a lot more emphatic. So that totally makes sense. But I think for someone like you, and I'm thinking someone like me, where our voices are maybe a little bit deeper, some of the tone of or some of the dynamics and the emphasis and the feeling maybe feels a little bit less strong, for lack of a better term, which I get.

[John Law]

That can happen because the range in the voice is more limited.

[Ari Weitzman]

Exactly. And when there's a higher pitch, I think people honestly, just coming from a musician's perspective, people honestly usually associate higher pitches with more emotion. So the higher the notes go, the more emotional it feels.

[John Law]

Well, as you've no doubt gathered by now, this is a politics podcast where we talk about sound design and vocal timbre and really whatever else is on our minds. So one of the things that's true at Tangle is that we are a news company that tries to provide straight news from across political spectrum, giving you opinions from everywhere, giving you our own. Part of our values is that we're people and we want to try to show what our biases and our personalities are. So you understand that if there's something you're hearing from us that feels biased, it's probably because it is in some way. Get to know us and know what those biases are. Part of us being human means that we're going to have conversations about things that are interesting to us. And another part of it is that we're going to be a little, for lack of a better word, triggered sometimes by things in the news. So I think that I wanted to start with today, John, to talk to you about is a couple false framings that I'm hearing a lot with Elon Musk and Doge. We're going to have a guest on Today later, Ray Brescia, who is a professor of law at Albany, but he's going to help us shake out some of the legality, illegality of it. But apart from that, I think a thing that we've talked about just before I get into some of these false framings is that Doge is often not actually effective at doing the thing it says it wants to do, which is cutting fraud, waste, and just spending in general. The federal budget is measured in the trillions. If you're grinding for two weeks, cutting every budget, contract, and employee that you can find, and you can get to 2 billion, which is a huge number, that is 1 7,000th of federal spending. And that is not where the main game is. Also, as we're going to talk about later, may be illegal, so it may have to be rolled back and maybe reaching the limit of its power already. And conflict of interest, not helping with popularity, not helping to make the government more efficient. Lots of things we can level at it, but may not be illegal. So that's kind of the first thing that I want to start complaining about, is that I've found, as somebody who's writing a lot of opinion pieces in the past couple weeks, that when I go and I criticize something about this administration, which has been happening a lot, and that's somewhat normal when we cover administrations, we want to use a critical lens when we're examining the powers that be. When I end up very critical of things that are happening in this administration, if I stop short of saying some key term or shibboleth that people on the left want me to use, I'm not doing it severely enough. I'm not going far enough. And with Trump and foreign policy, that term, I learned, is chaotic. If I don't say Trump is chaotic, I'm not a good critic, apparently. I don't think Trump's chaotic. I think he has a different pattern. And I think that reads as chaos. But I think it's. Once you get to know the pattern, patterns, by definition, aren't chaos. They're patterns. It's just a different pattern. With Musk and Doge, that shibboleth seems to be illegal. You have to say, this is against the law, it's illegal, and we don't know that it is. There are court cases right now that are going through challenges. They're temporary injunctions that are looking into whether or not Musk and Doge are violating privacy laws and accessing data from the Treasury Department, from Social Security Administration. If they're violating civil servants rights by firing or in the future, maybe reclassifying them so that they can be fired, those things are being worked out. And we actually don't know if those are illegal. So when I say I don't think it's illegal or I don't know that it's illegal. I'm getting pilloried from the left because of it. And that doesn't feel fair. But I can say 99 words that are critical about Musk that are saying like he doesn't know what he's doing or it's not helpful, all the things already said at the top of the show. But I'm saying I don't think it's illegal and that's all people hear. And I'm annoyed about that. And I'm telling you that so you can hear me, so I can feel better.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I mean, I understand there's a lot of outrage right now. It was a obviously a very divisive election. And you know, Musk is unelected, right? So he's, you know, at best he's like a considered like a senior advisor to the president. So him coming in and making sweeping cuts to programs is going to feel very threatening and pretty emotional, I think, across the board. But to your point, is what he is doing illegal? Obviously, I'm not a lawyer and people much smarter than me are debating this right now. I just want to, this just popped into my head and I just kind of want to frame this around this same thing, which is like, you know, regardless of how I feel about it, I just want to point out that there, there was, there was a similar argument, I think, with, you know, Biden and student debt relief. Right? How legal is this? And on the right, that was like a really huge point of contention. The framing was that one generation had worked really, really hard to pay off their student loan debt, while a younger generation was going to have their student loan debt completely removed at the cost of the taxpayer who had already paid off their student loan debt. Being outraged by that and wanting to see that go through the process is the right thing, right? Like testing its legality and that sort of thing. It's not going to be necessarily that everybody's going to embrace these ideas, but whether or not they're illegal or not is not something you can just blanketly throw around and just say this is illegal because it's happening, because I don't like it.

[Isaac Saul]

Foreign.

[Ray Brescia]

We'Ll be right back after this quick commercial break.

[Isaac Saul]

Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're thrive market the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality, organic and sustainable brands, all free of the junk with savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Isaac Saul]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].

[John Law]

And that's also a good point about how tolerant we are of whether or not those laws are being tested. Because when Biden issued his first blanket student loan forgiveness under the Heroes act, saying that this is evoked during or invoked during a federal emergency during COVID then I can forgive loans. And that was a 911 era law that he attempted to justify in this case, the right said that's not legal, that's unconstitutional, that's a huge breach of federal power. And the left is like maybe, I mean, we'll see. But a little more tolerant. Because that's something not everybody on the left surely, but more people on the left were more interested in that as a policy. Fewer people on the left are interested as a policy in cutting U.S. aid or downsizing the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. That doesn't mean that we know that it's illegal. And to your point, if you throw the same argument back to people on the right and say we were really concerned that Biden might have been acting illegally, the right thing to do was go through the courts to figure that out. It's the same thing here. Maybe you don't like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. I happen to like it. I think that its governance structure can be challenged, but it's not unconstitutional. It's been challenged before and the courts found it to be constitutional. So does Musk coming in and firing people? And does Russell Vaught at the Office of Management and Budget? Does his asking for $0 from the Fed, does that violate a law? I honestly am not sure. I think that that's happened before. In 2018, Mick Mulvaney asked for $0 for the consumer Financial Protection Bureau. It operated on a shoestring budget for a bit, but I don't think that it was illegal. So there is precedent for things that we do not like happening that aren't necessarily illegal. That said, I know I'm talking a lot, but the next thing that I want to bring up is the framing on the left, or, sorry, is the framing on the right that I hear about doge, which is its purpose is to cut fraud, waste, make the government more efficient. If we criticize it for not cutting the right waste or finding enough waste to cut, or not really finding fraud, because so far it doesn't look like it's uncovered any fraud in the receipts that it's shown or actually be cut or say that it's actually cutting things that's making the government more inefficient, then I'm not against those principles. I'm against whether or not it's executing them. And it's not a very good argument to say criticizing DOGE is criticizing efficiency. I'm on your side here. I want efficiency. I want the agency that is looking to make the government more efficient to just do it right. We should want that. And it's pretty frustrating when you make criticisms about DOGE and you're told you're on the side of government inefficiency. Listen to what we're saying. That's not true.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, the process of government in general is pretty slow. And the process of the tech industry is. Or at least the motto of the tech industry, right, is move fast and break things. So these are two diametrically opposed ideas. The way government actually runs versus the way the tech industry runs. You have a tech industry giant trying to lead a government program. Of course there's going to be that.

[John Law]

Combative lava hitting the ocean.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right? There's going to be a lot of people who are upset one way or the other. As far as whether or not it's a redundant program or office. I mean, it kind of seems like it is. I think the numbers so far have been inaccurate at best. They mistook something. A program that was $8 billion, and it was actually $8 million. And, yeah, it doesn't seem like it's doing much that's sufficient at all, just creating more of the thing that they're accusing the government of having too much of already, which is bureaucracy. It's going to take more than three weeks. But obviously, huge, sweeping cuts that come really fast, really quick are going to be alarming. I don't think there's anything wrong with calling out just how alarming it is. But whether we're conflating alarming and illegal, it is concerning that this unelected billionaire with an enormous amount of power and the ear of the president is calling a lot of shots and affecting a lot of lives. But is all of that illegal? I guess we'll find out.

[John Law]

And I think that's something that we're going to find a little bit more about here today. I'm going to be sitting down with Ray Brescia, who's the associate dean law professor at the Albany Law School. And I'm going to ask him straight first question, is Doge doing anything illegal? And I want to hear what he has to say. And then after that, we'll come back and we'll talk about it.

[Ray Brescia]

We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

[John Law]

Hey, prime members, are you tired of ads interfering with your favorite podcasts? Good news, with Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to Amazon.com ADFreePodcasts that's Amazon.com ADFreeP Podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Isaac Saul]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].

[John Law]

So joining us today on the Sunday podcast is Ray Brescia. Ray is an associate dean and law at the Albany Law School. He's the author of several books and scholarly articles, including his new book, the Private Is Political Identity and Democracy in the Age of Surveillance Capitalism. You might have seen or heard from him as a contributor on MSNBC and the Daily Beast. He has written a lot recently about Elon Musk and Doge and the Trump administration, Donald Trump and his court cases before that, and some Supreme Court cases that have touched both Donald Trump and other aspects of the political system. Because it is more than Donald Trump actually, it turns out. Ray Brescia, how are you doing today? Thanks for joining us.

[Ray Brescia]

I'm doing great. Thank you for inviting me. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

[John Law]

Oh, me too. I suspect that I might learn A bit more from it than you, but I'll do my best to prod and push and see if we can get somewhere knowing that I'm going to be fighting uphill here as somebody without a legal background, just trying to ask some probing questions about some things that you've written about, starting with Elon Musk and doge. Because one of the things that we've seen at Tangle is that we have a lot of criticisms about Musk's involvement in the government and the Department of Government efficiency in general, a lot of them about enormous conflicts of interest, ethical concerns, his ability to do things that are going to be helpful or practical. A lot of the budget cuts we don't think are going to be sustainable or even effective. But that's aside from the legal argument. So my big question that I want to spend a lot of time on is what is Musk doing, or what is Doge doing that you think is illegal and why?

[Ray Brescia]

Well, it's hard to say because we don't really know all that they're doing. We don't know the scope of their access. We don't even know the nature of this entity. It is not clear that if we're going to stand on ceremony on creating a federal department, it's not clear that that is something that a president can do without congressional approval or without funding that is set by Congress. So we don't even know sort of existentially the legal reality of the system of this entity, whatever it may be. Certainly there are. You could go down the line and point to a lot of very serious questions about their actions. Right. The extent to which they are laying off individuals with civil service protections, the extent to which they are supposedly firing people who can only be fired for cause when there is no cause, with, you know, eliminating. Attempting, I should say, to eliminate usaid. They can't do that. Right. So let's move on to the conflicts of interest. The Musk suite of companies all have extensive business dealings with the federal government. And a lot of the activities, as is publicly, has been publicly reported. I have no way to independently confirm this. A lot of the activities seem to be with respect to government agencies that directly regulate Musk companies. I can't imagine a clearer conflict of interest. So from the existence of DOGE to the firing of people with protections to the conflicts of interest, and then finally, the extensive access that individuals appear to be getting to very sensitive private information about individuals and companies is just breathtaking. So those who may ask, well, what is Doge doing? That's illegal. I would turn that question on its head and ask what are they doing that's legal? What is the legal justification? What is the legal basis for, for what they are doing? There was a representation made in court a day or so ago. I believe that Elon Musk has no government role, is not a government employee. I really just want to know what are they doing that's legal? I think that that's a legitimate question.

[John Law]

Yeah. And that's something that I'm going to keep the burden of proof on you here because I think I don't, I don't have the ability to parse out where the law stands and where it is and isn't. But I want to go through, because you listed four or five things there with relative like ease and recall. So starting maybe from the top of the things that you were starting or the things that you listed, which is the existence of Doge. So it calls itself, the name of it is the Department of Government Efficiency, but it's not really a government department. It's a collection of contractors organized under the digital service service. As I understand it, that's where a lot of the contractors are based out of. Similarly, Obama founded the digital service as a way to try to resolve issues with the rollout of healthcare.gov and it's sort of been part of the federal branch sense. So the question could become, and this is what I'll put to you, if the digital service is constitutional, then why can't Trump classify people in some way within it to also have access to some aspects of government data with any purview, but in this case, to be able to report on costs that the government could save or potential waste.

[Ray Brescia]

I think that's a legitimate question. I would like to see the order, I would like to see the regulations that authorize Department of Government Efficiency to work in this way under that umbrella. We recently had, you know, another instance, you know, another case in court where the, one of the judges questioned whether Musk needed to be confirmed by the Senate. Right. Given that he has such a significant role to play. One of the arguments, and he's been given sweeping powers. I mean, you know, people have called him, I don't, I'm repeating what other people have said. They've called him a co president, they called him assistant president. Right. These are some of the questions that people have raised. And recall that one of the arguments of Donald Trump was that the special prosecutor, Jack Smith, his appointment as a special prosecutor was unconstitutional because it wasn't confirmed by the Senate. So who has more who comparing the authority that Jack Smith had to and any special prosecutor has to what appears to be the ability to peek under the hood and get involved in the activities of virtually every branch of government and make and make sweeping decisions.

[Ari Weitzman]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive producer of YouTube and podcast content and co host of the Daily Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this preview of our Sunday podcast with Ari and Isaac. We are now offering this podcast exclusively to our Premium podcast members along with our ad, free daily podcasts, Friday editions, in depth interviews, upcoming new podcast series, bonus content, and much more. If you want to receive all that and give your support to help grow Tangle Media, Please go to readtangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, a podcast membership, or a discounted bundle membership which gets you both access to the premium newsletter and the Premium podcast. If it's not the right time for you to sign up, please don't worry. Our ad supported daily podcast isn't going anywhere, but if it is in your ability to support by signing up for a membership, we would greatly appreciate it and we're really excited to share all of our premium offerings with you. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day. Y'all.

[John Law]

Take care.

[Ari Weitzman]

Peace.

[Ray Brescia]

Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by John Wall. The script is edited by our Managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will K Back, Bailey, Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova who is also our Social Media Manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75.

[John Law]

If you're looking for more from Tangle.

[Ray Brescia]

Please go to readtangle.com and check out our.

[John Law]

Hey guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT.

[Isaac Saul]

There's one thing that will forever change the way you sleep and it's the softest 100% organic cotton bedding from Boll and Branch. You'll fall asleep faster wrapped in the most luxurious comfort. You'll never sleep. Sleep hot again with airy blankets, cloud like duvets and breathable sheets. You'll Experience pure comfort on night one and feel your bedding get softer with every wash. Discover the difference with 15 off your first order at bolanbranch.com with code buttery Exclusions apply. See site for details.

[Ari Weitzman]

Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here.

[Ray Brescia]

To let you know that this podcast.

[Ari Weitzman]

Is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressives Name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget so you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try [e-mail] and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.