PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Ari and Magdalena talk Elon Musk, social media, and civil discourse.

Summary

Tangle Podcast Episode Summary: Preview – Ari and Magdalena Discuss Elon Musk, Social Media, and Civil Discourse

Release Date: January 26, 2025
Host: Ari Weitzman and Magdalena Bokova
Podcast: Tangle

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1. Introduction and Personal Updates

The episode opens with Ari Weitzman welcoming listeners to the Tangle Podcast, mentioning that Isaac Saul, the usual host, is on paternity leave. Ari is joined by Magdalena Bokova, who introduces herself as the Head of Partnerships, Growth, and Social at Tangle.

Key Highlights:

• Birth Announcement: Magdalena shares the joyful news of Isaac Saul and his wife Phoebe welcoming their first child, a son, highlighting their excitement while maintaining privacy around the details.

  • Magdalena Bokova [03:10]: "Isaac and his wife Phoebe had their first child... it's a son."

• Anecdote on Birth Prediction: The hosts discuss Magdalena's accurate prediction of the baby's birth date, attributing it to her familiarity with Isaac's family dynamics and past experiences.

  • Ari Weitzman [04:11]: "In January is when this baby is gonna be born. Just missed it by a week."

2. Behind the Scenes: Managing Tangle

Ari delves into the operational aspects of managing the podcast in Isaac's absence, detailing the various tasks and challenges faced.

Key Highlights:

• Operational Challenges: Ari describes juggling multiple responsibilities, including onboarding new team members, handling payroll disputes, and preparing newsletters.

  • Ari Weitzman [05:36]: "You get told that you're a bad Jew whose ancestors should be ashamed of themselves."

• Team Dynamics: Magdalena comments on the team's resilience and the seamless operation of the podcast despite staffing changes.

  • Magdalena Bokova [06:30]: "We've captained the ship and I think it's going pretty well."

3. Engaging with Reader Feedback and Civil Discourse

The discussion shifts to handling reader feedback, particularly controversial comments regarding Elon Musk, highlighting the importance of maintaining civil discourse.

Key Highlights:

• Respecting Isaac’s Work: Magdalena emphasizes the team's respect for Isaac's dedication and the importance of reader engagement.

  • Magdalena Bokova [10:14]: "People think that they, when they unsubscribe... And they think no one's going to read it."

• Ari’s Reflection on Feedback: Ari acknowledges the challenges of receiving harsh criticism and the importance of thoughtful responses to maintain respectful dialogue.

  • Ari Weitzman [08:21]: "I have more of an appreciation for the work Isaac does a little bit more."

4. Deep Dive: Elon Musk Controversy

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting recent controversies involving Elon Musk, particularly regarding gestures perceived as Nazi salutes and his public statements.

Key Highlights:

• Analysis of Gestures: Ari explains his perspective on Musk's gestures, arguing that they might stem from awkwardness rather than malicious intent.

  • Ari Weitzman [14:50]: "I don't think what Musk did was a Nazi salute. Something that I didn't say, which I regret omitting because I do think it's helpful."

• Great Replacement Theory Discussion: Ari elaborates on Musk's comments that align with the Great Replacement Theory, highlighting the dangers and implications of such rhetoric.

  • Ari Weitzman [17:41]: "This is promoting... Great Replacement Theory... which is anti-Semitic and white nationalist."

• Magdalena’s Counterpoints: Magdalena provides a nuanced view, suggesting that Musk’s actions might be a cry for attention rather than an endorsement of extremist ideologies.

  • Magdalena Bokova [28:03]: "Musk is like an incredibly intelligent person... he pines for that recognition."

• Impact on Public Perception: Both hosts discuss how Musk's behavior affects his public image and the broader political discourse, emphasizing the need for accountability.

  • Ari Weitzman [25:12]: "The biggest criticism that I could have of him following this whole thing is his unwillingness to confront what's behind that door."

5. The Balance Between Criticism and Acknowledgment

Magdalena and Ari explore the fine line between critiquing public figures and acknowledging their contributions, using Musk as a primary example.

Key Highlights:

• Musk’s Contributions vs. Controversies: While recognizing Musk’s achievements in technology and entrepreneurship, the hosts debate the ramifications of his controversial actions and statements.

  • Magdalena Bokova [30:24]: "He has done some really amazing things... from Starlink to space exploration."

• Audience Engagement: The hosts reflect on reader expectations for balanced discourse and the importance of addressing both positive and negative aspects of public figures.

  • Magdalena Bokova [25:12]: "He wants love and attention and he's finding it in the alt, right?"

6. Maintaining Integrity and Open Dialogue

Concluding the episode, Ari and Magdalena emphasize the podcast's commitment to fostering open, respectful conversations, even when tackling sensitive or divisive topics.

Key Highlights:

• Commitment to Civil Discourse: The hosts reiterate their dedication to engaging with diverse perspectives and maintaining a platform for healthy debate.

  • Ari Weitzman [09:04]: "We are getting healthy debate and the fact that we aren't having too many people unsubscribe means they want to engage."

• Future Directions: They hint at upcoming discussions and the continuous effort to improve listener experience and content quality.

  • Ari Weitzman [32:42]: "If you're looking for more from Tango, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website."

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Notable Quotes

• Ari Weitzman [14:50]: "I don't think what Musk did was a Nazi salute. It was something that I didn't say, which I regret omitting because I do think it's helpful."

• Magdalena Bokova [25:12]: "Musk is like an incredibly intelligent person and he comes from South Africa... he wants recognition."

• Ari Weitzman [17:48]: "Great Replacement Theory... is one of the bigger issues with the right movement right now."

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Conclusion

This preview episode of the Tangle Podcast offers listeners an insightful glimpse into the nuanced discussions surrounding Elon Musk's public persona and actions. Ari and Magdalena navigate through personal updates, operational challenges, and complex political debates, all while maintaining a commitment to balanced and respectful discourse. The episode underscores Tangle's dedication to providing diverse perspectives and fostering an environment where difficult conversations can take place constructively.

For more detailed discussions and future episodes, listeners are encouraged to visit Tangle's website.

Transcript

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[Ari Weitzman]

Coming up, Magdalena joins me to talk about where Isaac is. Then we go over some feedback we got from readers about Elon Musk. Talk about Musk. Too much talk about how we're talking about Musk. Too much talk about Meta. Talk about how we're talking about meta. Too much Play a little game, give some grievance and get out of here. It's a fun time. I think you'll enjoy it.

[Magdalena Bokova]

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

[Ari Weitzman]

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of our take. I'm Ari Weitzman, managing editor at Tangle, sitting in the host chair today for Isaac Saul, who is away on paternity leave, which is great. Joined by fellow Tangle worker and parent. Fellow parent of Isaac's. Wow, I said that pretty poorly. Mags, you want to introduce yourself, Parent of Isaac?

[Magdalena Bokova]

Okay.

[Ari Weitzman]

I've met a long weekend.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah, yeah, it's been a long week. Yeah. Mags Magdalena, I've been on the podcast before and back. Head of Partnerships, Growth and Social is what I'm calling it right now.

[Ari Weitzman]

It's been a closely to find your title. It's been the journey you've been on.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah, it's the nature of a startup, but I think I look at it as like we are co captains right now of the ship, so. Hello Captain.

[Ari Weitzman]

Hey Captain, how are we feeling? The ship's going without the usual captain here.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Oh, I mean it's. I think overall it's going great. It's going. We've prepped a lot for this. Maybe the baby announcement on Wednesday. If you haven't checked it out, look in your inbox or listen to the pod. There's a special announcement of what happened, but Isaac and his wife Phoebe had their first child.

[Ari Weitzman]

Cute little.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah. I'm not sure how much we're supposed to divulge on that. And so we're going to keep the details pretty, you know, vague. I will say that I was pretty spot on on when they will be were born. I'm only using they because I don't also don't know. But yes. Oh no, he did say son. So it's a son. Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

Just withholding name. Names and pictures and stuff.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah. So I was pretty spot on on your second guess. On my second guess.

[Ari Weitzman]

To be fair, you were very bold for months saying it's gonna be the wolf moon in January is when this baby's gonna be born. Just missed it by a week. I was convinced.

[Magdalena Bokova]

I think depending on the listeners, half the audience probably doesn't know what I'm talking about. And then the other half, the women.

[Ari Weitzman]

Very, very intimately familiar with what you're talk.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Um, I mean, to put in context, my. I had my second child last year and it happened on the full moon. And it's a thing, babies do come around the full moon. I mean, it's an anecdotal thing obviously, but let's just say we got into the hospital the day before the full moon and every time a nurse came into our room, she looked like she was coming out of a war zone. She was like, you don't even know what's happening out there. We have so many babies coming that we have to move people into like the triage emergencies. Like they were moving people into emergency just cause so many babies were happening. So my initial guess with Isaac and Phoebe's child was that it was gonna come around then, but of course they were delayed. And then my second guess was pretty spot on by like three, two and a half hours. I think.

[Ari Weitzman]

So, yeah, second guess was impressive for sure. I was way off I think both times, so that's sad. Just another big L for me.

[Magdalena Bokova]

I mean. Yeah, well, you know, mother's intuition. When the story does come out, when he does share the birth story, I'm sure at some point he will. You'll know why. I kind of pegged the day. Maybe there's like a little hint to that. I just think that this kid is a joker already. And I think it was like, perfect timing. So alluding to, you know, you guys can probably guess, but yeah. So we are without the official captain. We were captaining the ship and I think it's going pretty well. We've. It's. It's what? How do you think it's going?

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, it's. It's definitely a lot of work. I think we'll get into this a little bit more. But I definitely was graced with a good crash course into what Isaac's life is generally like. Yesterday, my experience was that we spent a lot of time talking about Joe Biden's pardons Again. Get into that a little bit more later. Answered a reader question that was pretty controversial about Elon Musk. A lot of flurry of editing. We're bringing on a new editor who's been doing great. We are saying goodbye to one of our other interns who then stayed on to be a contracted editor with us because we had a hard time letting her go. And she's headed out and we wish her the best. And in the same sort of flurry of people going in and out, we have a new customer service rep coming on that we are off boarding. So immediately after the take went out, I just went to help onboard him. Recorded some the podcast in the morning, then did some payroll dispute management with somebody who may or may not be on the call. And after that was starting to prep for the next day's newsletter. At which point I thought, I've got some time. I'll go check some of the feedback and criticisms, respond to stuff, and that sort of dynamite it the rest of my day. So I got to get that full taste of. You're working your heads down on every task in front of you, and then you just check in to make sure you're listening to readers and you get told that you're a bad Jew whose ancestors should be ashamed of themselves. And that's kind of what happens. So already respected Isaac for doing this job. Respect it a little bit more now. But what about. But that said, to answer your question.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah, let's just gloss over that. Let's.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think. I think tangle is going in the right direction still. It's the direction that we are already on. And I just have an appreciation for the work Isaac does a little bit more. And I have more of an appreciation for the readers who can do civil discussion. It's something that I've been pretty consistent about when I talk about it. But I do think that we are getting healthy debate and the fact that we aren't having too many people unsubscribe or just getting people complaining means they want to engage. So I think that's a good thing.

[John Mull]

We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

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[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah, yeah. Just to follow up on that, I think, you know, both you and I have worked with Isaac for a while now and we've seen him, I think, yeah. This week has given me a newfound appreciation, even working with him for so long of how thick his skin must be at this point because, yeah, I mean, people are at times pretty awful when they read something that they do not agree with, especially if it's something that is sensitive or, you know, there's a lot of emotion behind it. So that it was, it was interesting because we waited into the, you know, what Ari alluded to was the Elon Musk Nazi salute. And Ari took a take on it. And some folks did not agree with the take, as usual. Right. That's like par for the course. But some of the commentary that we got on it just on our website, but mostly in our inbox, was just really, you know, awful. And I think part of it is people think that they, when they unsubscribe because they read something that they don't want to read and they're like, enough's enough. I don't want to, I don't want to engage with this. This is too uncomfortable, annoying or whatever. And they unsubscribe and we get a prompt of why are you unsubscribing? They write this tirade and they send it into the ether and they think no one's going to read it. Right. Because that's usually the part for the course. Right. With a lot of mainstream media outlets or for anything. Right. And with Tangle, what makes us unique is we really try to engage with all the comments and all the emails. I mean, we don't reply to everyone, but pretty high rate of replying. And so I think people were expecting to send their responses and then not get something back. And then I think you have been trying your best to kind of give a response to the people that were quite honestly angry with you. Right?

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah. And I think that's true. And I agree most places aren't quite as accessible as we try to be. And I also understand that I'm a newer voice, so people maybe don't have the same level of trust or familiarity as they would with Isaac. So as soon as they hear somebody come out. And in addition, I'm sensitive to the context about this too, especially in retrospect. In addition, where we're criticizing Biden for his pardons on his last day while Trump is issuing a lot of executive orders which weren't the topic of discussion that day, something that we got into the next day. But in that same edition, I come out and say something that reads like a defense of Elon Musk, even though in the past couple weeks we've been pretty critical of him. And my answer is not exactly a full throated defense of him. I basically said that I don't think this gesture that he made was a Nazi salute. I think he's really awkward and awkward to the point that it's really hard to imagine, which, like, makes him make a mistake like that. Because you can't really even imagine doing that sort of gesture unless you're that awkward. It's almost unimaginable. That's not exactly the kindest thing to say about somebody. But that was something that in that context reads like, Musk is fine, it's not a problem. Biden's worse than Trump. And then dismissing the rest, I can understand how that reads. And to be fair to the, the quote that I said earlier, like, your ancestor should be ashamed. The person who emailed in to say that when I responded was very apologetic and said he was out of line, issued a really nice email. And I appreciate that. So I know, like, it takes a little bit of time to understand that there are other people to talk to and that are on the other end of it and that there's going to be a chance for dialogue when that's not a thing you're used to. So, yeah, I think you're right with that. And I do think some of the feedback has been. Has had some fair points, and I do think I would really love to have a chance to get into some of that and explain a little bit more about this Musk stuff. I know we had that a little bit down in the show notes, but are you all right if I take like five minutes and do a little. Little mini rant here?

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't looking at the script, to be fair. Sorry, John. I just love opportunity, you know, like when you're interviewing someone and.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, just go for it. No, that's a good instinct. So let me get into that a little bit. Like I said, I understand the context of the way that this felt when I wrote that. I don't think what Musk did was a Nazi salute. Something that I didn't say, which I regret omitting because I do think it's helpful. Context is that Elon Musk has done plenty of things that are somewhat problematic in recent history. So one of those things was saying that the only. The only future for Germany is the AfD, this ultra right party for the future of Germany. A lot of people in Germany are very sensitive, for obvious reasons, about the return of, like, white supremacy and Nazism. So that is a tough line you don't want to cross. But somebody who's not from Germany, who is an immigrant in the U.S. himself, he probably doesn't quite know the sensitivities. He also has been upfront about having Asperger's, which does not excuse what he does. And I'm not saying that everybody who has Asperger's is necessarily tone deaf like this. I'm just saying it's an added dimension to consider and that I didn't get into that in the take because I felt it muddied things a little bit. But that is an added dimension, so I'm aware of that. Another thing I'm aware of is what I consider to be the worst thing that Musk has done to date, which is I'm going to break down the saga really briefly, but I'm going to do it in full because I think it's important. In November, just a couple weeks after the election, somebody I really. I'm sorry, his name's Charles Weber. I'm not super familiar with him. He's. His bio says he's a Florida Jew. Not a whole lot Else, I'm sure he's got more information, but he tweeted this video about. It's like this PSA ad about a father confronting his son who had posted Hitler was right online. And it was just a video, just a PSA about, like, confront your family members about stuff when they say things that are problematic online. A person responded to that, just, his name's Eric. He said, okay. Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them. I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about Western Jewish populations coming into the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much. You want truth said to your face? There it is. Elon Musk replied to this tweet, quote, you have said the actual truth. So.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Wow.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah.

[Magdalena Bokova]

In November. Sorry.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, yeah. This was a couple weeks after the election.

[Magdalena Bokova]

We.

[Ari Weitzman]

We referenced this a bit in the newsletter. It's a tripwire. For me personally, it's a thing that I'm pretty sensitive to. I think this is promoting in very, like, almost not subtly, almost out in the open, this theory called Great Replacement Theory, which in my mind is like the granddaddy of them all when it comes to anti Semitism and like white nationalist conspiracy theories, which in a nutshell is that Jews quote Jews. You know, all of us go to the meetings that you don't get to go to. They coordinate behind the scenes to import. And there's always this word import or bring in, which I think's dehumanizing and it on its own, but that's a whole other thing. Import quote minorities or people from some other country into the country to replace white culture with the aim of eradicating the white race and culture. And it's kind of. It fails. The first step of just trying to see if it's feasible. Like, there's this old adage. I don't know if it's an adage, but the saying that if you have two Jews, you get three opinions. Like the idea that Jews could control things and like, in general, this trope is pretty nonsensical. And this idea of like importing people is kind of gross on one hand, not excusing it. I'm very, very much against it. I can understand where the perception comes from. Democrats have an agenda that is generally pro immigrant. It's very tolerant of immigration. They try to reach out to immigrants to try to get them to become future Democratic voters, which Kind of makes sense if they're going to be the pro immigrant party. That's very easy to look at in a malevolent way. Especially when if you look by the numbers, more Jews, not all Jews, but more Jews tend to be democratic. So there are some larger swaths that, you know, it's easy to paint that picture, but it's also total bunk. When Musk said, you have said the actual truth, I still don't think that meant he was a Nazi. I think the biggest issue that I have with Musk is that he is pretty weak or pretty thin skinned himself and wants to promote people who agree with him. So my whole unifying theory of Elon Musk, to try to explain him in my own mind, add the piece that he's awkward, add the piece that he wants support. But the thing that kind of starts it is I think he was a generally apolitical person when he was taking over CEO of Tesla. He was the electric car guy and he saw himself as on the left because the left was the party of electric cars. Then his child came out as trans. So the person he thought was his son was his daughter. And he had a hard time dealing with that. Still does. Kind of sparked something in him. Looked around at cultural progressivism, said I don't believe in this, I don't fit in. And he got infected by hyper partisanship, this bug that we're familiar with. And he said, I'm going to the other team. And that's when you see the world and left, right, dichotomies like that. And only in those terms when you switch teams, when you say I'm going to the other side, it's almost like denouncing your religion or taking up a new one and you just have to bring a wholesale new set of beliefs with you. And I think you went really, really far into it. And when you do that, when you go really, really far and make this partisan identity core to you, your conception of yourself, you kind of have to insulate it. So when there are people that are close to that ideology that are saying things that sort of dog whistle at great replacement theory, you don't really feel inclined to do self reflection and say, maybe I'm going a little too far by saying Jews are importing like brown people, maybe I'm going too far. You say, you know, there's something here, it's real, that there's a demographic thing to be concerned about. I don't have to even open the door about great replacement theory and anti Semitism. I don't think Trump, Trump, sorry. It's a little bit of a Freudian slip, but it's the same. It's kind of the same thing with Trump, though. Like, this is the biggest criticism I have with him too, is you maybe are aware of what's behind the door, but you don't want to open it and confront that because those are people that are sort of, they're way far on your side, but they're on your side. And when it comes to the left, when you make those same comparisons, it's kind of tough to come up with a one on one analog. There are issues with the left that the right does not share. I don't know. I don't think we have to get into that right now. But it is an issue. It's one of the bigger issues with the right movement right now, if not the largest one. And Musk failing to confront that is a huge problem. After he made this gesture, in the context now, going back to the criticism that we received, that I received, he had an awful response. It was just a total non response. He's like, yeah, this is just bs People are trying to paint me out to be something. This is just, just a joke, just liberalism trying to spew their nonsense. Foreign.

[John Mull]

We'Ll be right back after this quick commercial break.

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[Magdalena Bokova]

I mean, I think he tried to like make, you know, shared that like Harris and other, other people on the political spectrum had also made these kind of gestures in the past. Right, right. And I've seen that what he's leading on. Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

Like I've seen those stills and the stills look like. It looks like there's a point to be made there. But at the same time there's still images. When you look at the videos, it's very different.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

And I mean, on the other side of this, I'm going to say that that gesture of like having your hand near your heart and then going out to form like a 45 degree angle with sharp fingers extended. Honestly, it's not a super unnatural movement. Seriously. Like I've remembered. I have a very clear memory of being in New York like years and years and years ago, like more than a decade ago. Because I'm gonna use the word taxi cab and trying to hail a taxi cab and realizing that I'm doing this thing where I'm like, I'm bringing my hand down and then I'm like hailing it and then I'm doing it again. I'm like, oh, shit. I felt like really self conscious and embarrassed because.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Is it hailing a taxi? Okay, I don't know because I didn't live in New York, but isn't it down below? I mean, I shared a meme of the different.

[Ari Weitzman]

You did. I know that's what made me remember it.

[Magdalena Bokova]

And yeah, I'm pretty sure hailing the taxi is a little lower.

[Ari Weitzman]

But I just, you know, I'm not a New Yorker. I'm just trying to be visible. I'm waving my hand out. So yeah, maybe I did that super wrong too. But that's why it's an embarrassing story. So the point of that is that I think it's possible to do this without realizing it. Like, I really do think that. Especially when you are, as I said, an unfathomably awkward person. Jon Stewart had this great bit about this too. He said, like, okay, Musk is trying to make this my heart goes out to you gesture. And Jon Stewart said, okay, a normal person, if they do that, might go like that, like hands to your breast and then sort of push your hands forward. But Musk like gripped it as hard and then threw it to the ground and then it was like. And did it twice. And that's really weird. It's a Strange thing to do, but it still fits within my understanding of who this person is. And I think the biggest criticism that I could have of him following this whole thing because I still don't think it was an intentional thing. My biggest criticism is he continues to be craven in his unwillingness to confront what's behind that door. To look at the tropes that he's sort of being. I think he might be being played by, honestly. And I think he's. And the very, very least he could have done is said, you know what? That gesture did look bad. That was fucked up. I'm sorry, I'm not going to do that again. That's not something that I support. But I think he's too nervous about confronting the people that are on the far end of his team to do. That's my screen on it.

[Magdalena Bokova]

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second. I mean, this is taking up a lot of time, but I think it's really important because it was, I think, the single biggest piece of feedback we got this week. Apart from all of the congratulations on Isaac's baby. That definitely took the crown. But yeah, I mean, I think I. My opinion, like watching it. I agree. I think he's a very awkward, weird person. I mean, let's think back to that Butler, Pennsylvania rally where he was like jumping up and down in a weird, very, very awkward, very cringe worthy moments. So he does have that history that you were talking about of just being like socially awkward and weird. The one piece that I want to kind of push back on. I mean, Musk is like an incredibly intelligent person and he comes from South Africa, right. Originally, which has its own very tumultuous history in general. I feel like he would be very acutely aware of that gesture. And one piece that I'm wondering about is if we lean into the fact that he wants to be loved. Right? Like he just pines for that recognition. That's why he's doing all these. I mean, honestly, I mean, we can criticize Musk all we want, but he has done some really amazing things, you know, in different realms. Like from Starlink, for example, to, you know, all the space exploration and the electric cars and whatnot. So I'm just wondering if. Because he's pining for that love and attention and he's finding it in the alt, right? If it could have been him potentially being like throwing them a hey, I see that you love me. Hey, just throwing it out there. We got this. You know, I think people kind of interpret it as that.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I'll say. I think that's a reasonable interpretation. I think that makes sense to me. I don't find it to be the most convincing interpretation, but I think it makes sense. I'll push back a little on, like, I don't think Musk really wants to be loved. I think that's a Trump thing. More so, I think Musk wants attention and he likes making people laugh. He's a bit more of a troll, which I think actually supports your point. More of like, okay, so he's trolling because the alt right have a lot of trolls with them. He's trolling like them. I don't know if he sees them as, like, racists, though. I think he kind of sees them as trolls. This is a thing that I learned after the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, going into, like, how people get extremified and slip down into this rabbit hole where they end up surrounded in this ideology that leads a person to one day go to their computer, say, screw your optics, I'm going in and grab a gun, shoot a bunch of people who are just at a Saturday service. And it's that it starts with the sort of.

[Isaac Saul]

Hey, everybody, this is John, executive producer of YouTube and podcast content and co host of the daily podcast. I hope you enjoyed this preview of our Sunday podcast with Ari and Isaac. We are now offering this podcast exclusively to our premium podcast members along with our ad, free daily podcasts, Friday editions, in depth interviews, upcoming new podcast series, bonus content, and much more. If you want to receive all that and give your support to help us grow Tangle Media, please head over to Tangle Media and sign up for a membership. If it's not the right time for you to sign up, please don't worry. Our ad supported daily podcast isn't going anywhere, but if it is in your ability to support by signing up for a membership, we would greatly appreciate it and we're really excited to share all of our premium offerings with you. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Mull signing off. Have a great day. Y'all.

[Ari Weitzman]

Take care.

[John Mull]

Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Wall. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will K Back, Bailey Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. If you're looking for more from Tango, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website.

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