PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Ari and Will talk about an NBA Trade, the Trump Administration and Defense Budgets

Summary

Podcast Summary: PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Ari and Will Talk About an NBA Trade, the Trump Administration, and Defense Budgets

Podcast Information:

• Title: Tangle
• Host/Author: Isaac Saul
• Episode: PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Ari and Will talk about an NBA Trade, the Trump Administration and Defense Budgets
• Release Date: February 16, 2025

In this episode of Tangle, hosts Ari Weitzman and Will K. Back delve into a range of pressing topics spanning the sports world and significant political developments under the Trump administration. The conversation is rich with insights, analyses, and informed opinions, making it a comprehensive preview for listeners who seek balanced perspectives on current events.

---

I. Introduction

The episode kicks off with Ari welcoming Will to the show, setting the stage for a discussion that oscillates between the NBA trade buzz and the Trump administration’s recent actions affecting federal agencies and policies.

II. NBA Trade: Luka Doncic to the Los Angeles Lakers

[02:30 - 10:36]

A. Overview of the Trade Will K. Back provides a detailed breakdown of the unprecedented NBA trade involving Luka Doncic, one of the league's brightest young stars, being traded from the Dallas Mavericks to the Los Angeles Lakers in exchange for Anthony Davis.

B. Significance of the Trade Will emphasizes the rarity of such a blockbuster move, stating, “There has never been a trade like this in the history of the NBA and potentially professional sports” (06:01). Luka Doncic, at just six years into his career, is viewed as one of the premier talents in the league, drawing comparisons to legends like LeBron James.

C. Reactions and Implications Ari adds perspective by highlighting public interest: “This was a big enough story that I think the NBA dominated the week before the Super Bowl because this was all people were talking about” (06:01). They discuss the potential impact on both franchises and the broader NBA landscape, noting concerns about Anthony Davis’s injury status and how it might affect the Mavericks post-trade.

D. Notable Quotes:

• Will: “He [Doncic] is arguably the best player in the world. I think that's a hard discussion to have in the current NBA because there's so many great players.” (06:03)
• Ari: “He is definitely on a LeBron trajectory in terms of individual awards. That's just like he hasn't reached his ceiling yet.” (07:16)

III. The Trump Administration

[12:00 - 34:48]

The conversation shifts to the Trump administration's recent actions, focusing on the defunding of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), executive orders on transgender sports participation, and the controversial involvement of Doge (Elon Musk) in the Treasury Department’s payment system.

A. Defunding the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)

[12:00 - 20:01]

1. Background and Current Actions Will discusses the Trump administration's efforts to limit the CFPB’s influence by requesting zero funding for the next quarter, effectively attempting to “starve it out” (12:40). Ari elaborates on the complexities of altering the CFPB’s funding structure, noting its unique establishment under the Dodd-Frank Act and the challenges Congress would face in reversing these changes due to partisan dynamics.

2. Legal and Constitutional Implications Ari expresses concern over the legality of instructing CFPB employees to cease operations despite an existing operational budget: “That may be illegal... but it's less apparently illegal than other things on this list” (19:08). The hosts acknowledge ongoing court hearings that could shape the future of the CFPB’s funding and operational capabilities.

3. Notable Quotes:

• Ari: “I think the work that it does is useful and valuable and it does it better than any other existing agency out there.” (13:10)
• Will: “It's almost hard to come up with an analogy in the sports world for what the Mavericks did...” (06:01), referring back to the NBA trade as a parallel for unprecedented administrative actions.

B. Executive Order on Transgender Sports Participation

[20:01 - 25:59]

1. Overview of the Executive Order Will introduces the topic by referencing Ari’s take on the executive order that defines gender categories strictly as male and female, thereby restricting transgender women’s participation in women’s sports within institutions receiving Title IX funding.

2. Public Opinion and Polling Ari shares poll data revealing that “45% said should never be allowed,” while “29.5% should be allowed in some cases,” indicating a significant portion of the population supports the administration's stance, though with notable exceptions (22:14).

3. Constitutional and Policy Considerations The hosts debate the constitutional implications, such as potential clashes with the First Amendment, and argue that the best bodies to make determinations on sports participation should be the governing bodies of each individual sport rather than federal intervention.

4. Notable Quotes:

• Ari: “It is inside the powers of the President... It’s still a defensible interpretation using a tool that's in the President's toolkit.” (25:02)
• Will: “Past four administrations, including Trump's second administration, have radically assessed Title IX in different ways...” (25:59)

C. Department of Government Efficiency Doge and Treasury Payment System Access

[26:08 - 34:48]

1. Overview of Doge's Actions Ari and Will examine the controversy surrounding Doge’s attempt to access the Treasury Department’s payment system. Initially granted read-only access, subsequent rulings have blocked further access pending a hearing on February 14th (27:26).

2. Legal Challenges and Motives Will critiques Doge’s motives, suggesting that “he’s looking to trim the deficit by cutting bloated budgets,” but Ari counters that such actions are superficial and distract from more significant budgetary concerns like healthcare and Social Security (30:04).

3. Analysis and Editorial Stance Ari asserts, “Anything I left out of that... building's fascist until I see the building,” underscoring the editorial team’s skepticism about Doge’s methods and motives. Both hosts express concerns over the potential conflicts of interest and the broader implications for government efficiency and accountability.

4. Notable Quotes:

• Ari: “If you want to cut the budget and trim the deficit, you should be looking at the biggest cuts... healthcare, military, and Social Security.” (31:17)
• Will: “Anything that Musk touches is improper. It just, like, bottom line, it is.” (32:54)

IV. Defense Budgets and Broader Implications

While not deeply explored in this preview, the conversation hints at upcoming discussions on defense budgets, likely tying into the broader themes of governmental efficiency and fiscal responsibility.

V. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a nod to the ongoing themes and a teaser for future discussions, emphasizing the importance of scrutinizing both high-profile sports trades and significant political maneuvers. Hosts Ari and Will reaffirm their commitment to providing balanced, non-partisan analysis, encouraging listeners to stay informed through Tangle.

Notable Quotes Summary:

• Will K. Back: “He [Doncic] is arguably the best player in the world. I think that's a hard discussion to have in the current NBA because there's so many great players.” (06:03)
• Ari Weitzman: “It is a use of executive authority that is within the powers of the President. That's obviously controversial.” (22:18)
• Will K. Back: “Any action that Musk touches is improper. It just, like, bottom line, it is.” (32:54)

---

This preview sets the stage for a comprehensive exploration of the intersection between sports and politics, providing listeners with nuanced perspectives and in-depth analysis of current events that shape our society.

Transcript

[Isaac Saul]

Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands all free of the junk with savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[Ari Weitzman]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Isaac Saul]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] hey.

[Ari Weitzman]

Prime, are you tired of ads interfering with your favorite podcasts? Good news. With Amazon Music you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to Amazon.com adfreepodcasts that's Amazon.com ad freepodcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads coming up. Will talks about NBA trade the two of us talk about the Trump admin, we go over some defense budgets in a game and then we end with some grievances. It's a good one. Enjoy your Sunday.

[Isaac Saul]

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

[Ari Weitzman]

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tango Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of our take. I'm your host. Tango Managing Editor Ari Weitzman joined today as always or as routinely sort of normally.

[Will K. Back]

Now editor Will Always temporarily, routinely as.

[Ari Weitzman]

Temporarily always will K back Will, how are you doing? How's your week been?

[Will K. Back]

I'm doing great, thank you. It's been an eventful week, but doing well and happy to be here.

[Ari Weitzman]

So we're going to be talking about some heavier stuff as we get going. So a lot of Trump talk, a lot of impropriety in government. But to sort of warm us up to that, I want to get you talking about something I know you're interested in, which is something I don't know a lot about. So I just want to ask you very simply to, as somebody in my situation. I'm a sports guy from Pittsburgh. We don't have an NBA team. I've never been a huge basketball guy. My dad's a Penn State fan. Penn State's basketball team has always been bad. Never really paid attention to college basketball. So as a sports guy who doesn't follow the NBA, tell me about the Luka Doncic trade.

[Will K. Back]

I'll give a quick overview of the trade and try to put it in terms that people can understand even if you don't follow or care about basketball. But Luka Doncic is a very young NBA star who has achieved quite a bit in his believe six year career. Now he's in his sixth season. He came into the league when he was 19. He's from Slovenia. He was kind of a wonderkid in Europe and was drafted by the Dallas Mavericks, or he was actually drafted by the Atlanta Hawks and then immediately traded to the Dallas Mavericks. He took the team to the NBA Finals last year where they lost to the Boston Celtics. But it was kind of considered the next step for him as an impact player where he had won a lot of individual awards, but the team hadn't advanced that far in the postseason before. This is all to say he's young, he's extremely talented, he's considered one of the best players in the NBA already. And he was just traded to the Los Angeles Lakers in return for one of their star players, Anthony Davis, who is power forward center, one of the big guys. He's about seven feet tall.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, I don't read a lot about the NBA, but I browse.

[Will K. Back]

You brow. Oh, well, that, that one is good. I hope people get that one. I'm not going to explain it and I hope people get it. Anthony Davis of hailing from the University of Kentucky, an incredible basketball player as well. He's, I believe, seven years older than Luka, though he's in his 30s and has a bit of an extensive injury history when he, you know, he's a perennial top 10 guy. But injury questions for sure. Anyways, there has never been a trade like this in the history of the NBA and potentially professional sports, at least in the modern era where one team voluntarily moves the face of the franchise for no discernible reason. In the days since the trade, there have been some illusions by the general manager of the Mavericks that they weren't satisfied with the conditioning that Luka was engaged in, that he wasn't fully bought in from a physical standpoint. He had been injured since Christmas, so he hadn't played a lot in, or he hadn't played at all in 2025. But it's almost hard to come up with an analogy in the sports world for what the Mavericks did, because this wasn't the Lakers going to the Mavericks and saying, we'd like to trade for Luka Doncic. It was the Mavericks proactively reaching out to other teams to shop this player. Luka is almost like LeBron, who is now his teammate.

[Ari Weitzman]

He's like the best player right now, isn't he?

[Will K. Back]

He is arguably the best player in the world. I think that's a hard discussion to have in the current NBA because there's so many great players. But his basketball IQ is, is as good as anybody. I would say him and LeBron are 1 1A, 1B. And he's an incredible scorer. He won the scoring title last year. He was the highest scorer in the league. Again, they went to the finals. He was incredible on that run. He unfortunately dispatched my team, the Minnesota Timberwolves, in somewhat savage fashion in five games in the Western Conference finals. So this, this has been. This was a big enough story that I think the NBA dominated the week before the super bowl because this was all people were talking about in the lead up. So for those of you who are familiar, I don't need to say anymore. For those of you who aren't, I would say go watch some YouTube videos of Luka Doncic's passing highlights and some of the angles that he sees on the court that just don't seem like it should be possible to see. And then ask yourself why an NBA team would trade that person as they enter their prime and having just led them to the championship series the year before. And then get back to me or don't. But that's what's going on in the sports world.

[Ari Weitzman]

Can you clarify something for me? The trade was one for one. There was no picks or conditionals.

[Will K. Back]

There was one pick. The Mavericks got second round pick, not much. And there was. I would describe them as peripheral players. There was another. The Utah Jazz were also involved in the trade. So it was technically a three team trade. There was no other significant impact player that was involved like you might expect. I think the reason it's so shocking is because of those terms. There have been some major trades and acquisitions in the NBA in recent years, but those have usually come with like five years worth of first round picks or a star player and a series of complimentary players that are also going to get minutes for that team. This felt like the Mavericks were trying to, like, pawn him off is the blunt way to describe it. And, I mean, there have been some concerns. I mean, if you look at Luka, he's not a chiseled athlete, but he doesn't have to be.

[Ari Weitzman]

You know, I saw an article recently, I think, from the Wall Street Journal that said Luka Doncic and Patrick Mahomes are examples of what the new, like, peak male form looks like for athletes. It's like the dad bod. It's just. It's not cut, but it's able to perform like it's the healthy playing weight.

[Will K. Back]

Yes. And I think that both of those players use it to their advantage because they can physically overpower other people in a way that they couldn't if they were maybe leaner and more muscular.

[Ari Weitzman]

So maybe this is kind of like if when the Chiefs lost to the Patriots, like before Patrick Mahomes won any Super Bowls. Like that first time when they made it. Yeah, they made it to the AFC Championship game. If the Chiefs were like, this guy's kind of out of shape. We're going to trade him for Russell Wilson.

[Will K. Back]

I mean, you know, it's funny is Adam Schefter, the ESPN reporter, tried to present it as trading Lamar Jackson for Josh Allen, who are two great quarterbacks right now in the NFL, which was just roundly panned and rightfully so. Just a completely bizarre comparison and not at all the context that this trade took place. But, yeah, I mean, I would say that Luka was even more established than Mahomes was in 2018 just because he's been first team all NBA. I mean, he's been named one of the five best players in the NBA for five years in a row, which is like he's on a LeBron trajectory in terms of individual awards. That's not something that has really ever happened before since LeBron. So it's just like he hasn't reached his ceiling yet. He's still ascending and he's already racked up so many accolades. And he's also proven that he can be a winning player. And I think that has cost a lot of genuine confusion, but we'll see, I guess. And the kicker, the kicker to this, the kicker to this is Anthony Davis in his first game with the Mavericks, got injured and is out for at least three weeks. So we'll see. I think it could go down as an all time stinker, but that's all I will say about that.

[Ari Weitzman]

My condolences to the Denver or my condolences to the Dallas listeners. Congratulations I suppose to the LA listeners and what a time to be alive. We'll be right back after this quick break. So awkwardly transitioning. Will we got a We have a bit of a game now that you're going to spring on me about something that we've been talking about over the last week.

[Will K. Back]

How would you rank.

[Isaac Saul]

Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market, the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[Ari Weitzman]

Hey prime members, are you tired of ads interfering with your favorite podcasts? Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to Amazon.com ADFreePodcasts that's Amazon.com ADFreeP Podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ADS.

[Will K. Back]

1 through 5, the actions of the Trump administration on a scale of least to most concerning. And maybe I can feed you these one at a time and you put them on the list and we'll kind of slowly fill in the top five, not necessarily in order. Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Will K. Back]

All right, so the first one I'm going to give you is a topic that you wrote about on Wednesday, which is the closing of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau or the defunding of it, rather. So where would you put that and why?

[Ari Weitzman]

I think that, okay, so one is most concerned, five is least concerned.

[Will K. Back]

Yes. Yep.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think that I would put that at A, at 4, I think. And I want to be really careful about why why that is. So because that's pretty low. The reason why that's low is that it's there's, it's still a very ongoing thing and there's a lot of different ways to try to limit the power of a federal agency or department. And I'll start by saying I'm a fan of the cfpb. I think the work that it does is useful and valuable and it does it better than any other existing agency out there. That said, there are other existing agencies out there that can do some of that work. One of the ones that I mentioned was FinCEN. So that's the government bureau, that's the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. So Fin, Central Fin crimes enforcement network, CEN, FinCEN. But it's a much smaller agency, it's older in a way that is kind of obvious in the way that it communicates. And the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has a really, really clean interface. It's really easy to report things to them. They're a really transparent agency, especially compared to its peers. They have semiannual reports. It's really easy to read and learn about. You just read one of those reports, you know exactly how many employees they have, you know how much their budget is. It's not a massive bloated agency, but it is an agency that is unique amongst federal agencies. It's funded through, unlike other federal agencies, it's funded through an act that Congress passed about 15 years ago, the Dodd Frank Act. And it takes a proportion of draws from the Fed that the Fed can give up to that amount and the CFPB can request up to that amount. And Congress can't do anything about that. They already approved a law. They don't appropriate the money every year. What they can do is they can pass a law changing the law that they had just passed or that they passed during Dodd Frank. That's a bit of a higher threshold because one, you have to be able to propose in a way that beats the filibuster. And two, Congress has to do something and that's one of their biggest biases is they don't want to do things which is unfair. That's an unfair thing to say. But also like there's not going to be consensus in the Senate for them to want to address this. To, to be, to put it like bluntly, every Democrat's going to vote against it. So it's not going to pass the filibuster. So it's not going to happen outside appropriations, which means it's somewhat untouchable in terms of its funding. So I also mentioned that there's ways that the federal government can, or that the President can limit a federal agency. They can install a different head. That's something you can do at the cfpb. They can ask for less funding. They can direct Congress to fund it less. They can fire non essential employees to a limit. We're not sure still how legal it is to just fire everybody in a summary manner or direct them not to work, tell them to stay home. A lot of these things are being worked out in court right now. There's a hearing tomorrow about the CFPB, I believe, as we're recording February 14th and 13th.

[Will K. Back]

February that.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, sorry, we're recording on the 13th. Tomorrow, the 14th, there will be a hearing. So that's the only thing that really concerns me about what the Trump administration's doing and what they've done is order to stop work from the cfpb. Musk's kind of got involved with it with Doge and like bricked the homepage, but that's all like, just, just the homepage has a error screen on it, but the rest of the site's still humming and working beautifully, which is kind of interesting. It's like a good symbol of how well insulated it was when it was designed.

[Will K. Back]

Right.

[Ari Weitzman]

But Russ Vaut or Russ vote requested the OMB head. He requested $0 from the Fed for it, and it's going to try to starve it out, which is what Mick Mulvaney did in 2018. So that's why it's low, because you can do that. You can't change its appropriations in Congress. The President can ask for less money, maybe the Fed can defy them, but that's probably not a fight that they want to get into. They can appoint political appointees to head it. They can probably limit the number of at will employees that are there. And to be fair, it's about 1700 people. It maybe doesn't have to be that big. Maybe. I'm not sure. It maybe can coordinate with other agencies in a way that's less duplicative, probably. I think that's true. And it can probably be funded in a way that is more like every other agency. And if that's the case, then it's easier for Congress to have oversight of it. And it's still going to be hard for the President to defund it in a way that, that it's. I would actually argue it's harder for the President to defund it if it's appropriated through Congress because then it's recision, which is unconstitutional. And they're going to be trying that anyway. I think they'll fail in courts, but it's easier for Trump and vote to ask for $0 than it is for them to just stop paying out appropriations Congress had made. That's what they're doing. As somebody who likes the agency, I don't think it's as concerning as other things they're Doing, I think it's politics.

[Will K. Back]

So to be clear, the. It's relatively lower on the concern level just because there isn't a concern about them taking any illegal action. Right. Like this is something that the President can do or the executive can do, not so much about your personal feelings about the cfpb.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right, exactly. Thank you for that. Yeah, I don't think that. And it is not least concern because there is an element to this that is concerning for me on the constitutional argument, which is telling employees that they need to stop working when they have. They still have operational budget that they can use. They just requested zero for the next next quarter.

[Will K. Back]

Right.

[Ari Weitzman]

So telling them don't do the work when there's work to be done that's already been scoped, I think may be illegal. And I'm not a constitutional law expert, so I can't weigh in on something like that authoritatively, but it's certainly less apparently illegal than other things on this list.

[Will K. Back]

Sure. Well, I think that's a thorough explanation of somebody who spent a lot of time thinking about this and writing about it on Wednesday. So I think we can leave it there and keep it moving.

[Ari Weitzman]

Okay, great.

[Will K. Back]

All right, now let's talk about something that. Well, we both. We both talked a lot about this, but this was a take that I wrote, which was the executive order from President Trump on trans sports and trans women's participation in them. Where would you put this on the concern scale?

[Ari Weitzman]

So using the same kind of rubric about how concerned am I about the legality of this action, I'd put it at a 5. The President is passing, or he's issuing an executive order saying, I have this other executive order defining what I mean when I say woman and man and thereby what the government means when they use these terms. And I'm also in that executive order, I express a theory of gender. It is the one that most, the majority of the country adheres to, that there are two. Two genders, they match sexes. You can have gender dysphoria, I think, within that rubric, still possible within that framework, but it still says there's two genders, there's two sexes. That's the President's viewpoint. And that, as I explained it, maybe less permissive than the President's viewpoint about gender dysphoria, but I think there's still room for it within that viewpoint and saying, okay, I issued that executive order, so I have those definitions. Now, pursuant to those definitions, here's another executive order saying, enforce sports participation. If you are a school that receives Title IX funding by these definitions or else you will not receive Title IX funding. Because in my interpretation, again, as the President, I see allowing people who do not meet my definition of female or a woman or a girl to compete in women's or girls sports because I think that's a violation of Title ix. I think that's a defensible argument and I think that is a use of executive authority that is within the powers of the President. That's obviously controversial. It's obviously something that should be debated. But as you noted when you wrote the take on it, it is something that a majority of people agree with. I think fewer people are concerned about.

[Will K. Back]

It's quite a significant majority.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right? And even a majority as of a.

[Will K. Back]

January 2025 poll, which is somewhat stunning.

[Ari Weitzman]

And I think with we have a little bit more, if not like a considerably more right now based on our audience demographics, more culturally liberal, culturally progressive. I think like socially liberal is kind of the classic Obama era way of saying it. Like social liberal, fiscal conservative. I think we have a lot of socially liberal readers.

[Will K. Back]

Classic.

[Ari Weitzman]

And even within that, even within that group, when we polled our readers, our second most responded to survey ever, 48% said that they think it is appropriate for an outright band like Trump proposed. And another, I don't have the poll in front of me. I'll pull it up. But another 30, 28% I think said that it's appropriate to ban in most cases. And I think that's indicative of a lot of people's opinions. Now, as you were saying in your piece, it's kind of passing laws. This is a paraphrase. I don't think this isn't exactly how you said it, but passing laws that concern us with like the will of the majority or most cases kind of leave out a lot of edge cases which are still people who still deserve the right to like participate in the way that other people do. Which I think you can argue is a First Amendment too, like the right to gather or the right to.

[Will K. Back]

Assemble.

[Ari Weitzman]

Right to assemble. There you are. Thanks to.

[Will K. Back]

Okay, back.

[Ari Weitzman]

So 45%. So 44.8. 45% said should never be allowed. 29.5 should be allowed in some cases. So still a majority of our readership would say that in most cases they don't support trans women or girls or sports. But there are definitely cases where it makes sense and it is the more fair thing to do. The opinion that I think is unanimous amongst Tangle staff is that the body that is best suited to make that determination is the governing body of each individual sport. It doesn't feel like something that the federal government should be doing. But at the same time, you can disagree and you can say, I'm at the head of the executive branch of the federal government and I'm going to make this verdict. You can do that. If the enforcement mechanism you have is Title ix, you can do that. It does seem to me to be a defensible reading of Title ix. You could also argue, and I think you should, that maybe Title IX should be revised so it's clearer if there's an interpretation that you can use to advance exactly opposing arguments, then maybe it's not a good enough piece of legislation. We can update it, but you can still do that. It's still a defensible interpretation using a tool that's in the President's toolkit.

[Will K. Back]

Yeah, I know. One of the things that we talked about in the take was how the past four administrations, including Trump's second administration, now has all radically assessed Title IX in different ways and issued orders on it that are extremely contradictory. Where we've kind of been jerked back and forth four years at a time on this law, which has a lot of impact on our country, you know, millions and millions and millions of students at schools who are receiving public funding. So I agree with you. I think in an ideal world, again, Congress could act on this and clarify, update and make this law from the 70s a little more applicable to the issues that we're dealing with in our modern day. But I'm not going to hold my breath on that. Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

We'll be right back after this quick break.

[Will K. Back]

All right, onto the next one. Let's talk about the Department of Government Efficiency Doge and our favorite, the budget cuts. The Doge Budget Cut Store.

[Isaac Saul]

Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1,000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands, all free of the junk, with savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road in plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done out Carpet in the Bathroom. Like why in knowing what to do, when to do it and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today.

[Will K. Back]

Do you want to give us a quick overview and then where you think it ranks?

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah, let's set the table a little bit. This is something that we talked about last week as well. And this is Doge has been doing a lot. So we have to specify what, which of their actions we're referring to here. So this is about when a federal judge blocked Doge and their contractors from accessing the Treasury Department's payment system. Now they have access or a couple contractors have access in a read only, non shareable sense. So I think maybe we should talk about kind of the sweep of it, like the fact that they access them in a way that we're not really sure what powers of access they had and then also knowing what they have now. So that ruling is going to be in place until at least this Friday. Again, so many legal things happening at the end of the week when they'll hear arguments that 19 state attorneys general brought that challenged Doge's access to that system. Yeah. So what Musk was doing was trying to evidently be able to access the way every payment was being made and to every employee so you can make a determination who's getting paid fraudulently and what budgets feel like they're too bloated. This is sort of following in my estimation. I don't think this is a very far of a limb to crawl out on either. The playbook that Musk has demonstrated as a CEO, which is, I'm going to come in with the assumption adversarially, I'm going to come in with the assumption that there are people here that are sort of, that we can trim, that are not pulling their weight, that are resting on their laurels. And I'm going to light fires and I'm going to say, I'm going to try to smoke these people out. And I'm going to say to them, look, we're setting higher standards. Either get with these standards or get going. And I'll keep the people around who are here will be lean, trim and motivated. And then we'll focus on the things that will matter and the people who we don't need will be gone. So anything I left out of that.

[Will K. Back]

Summary, I think the one, the one little detail to note is that there was an initial ruling last Thursday now that granted those two Doge staffers access. And then there was an subsequent ruling that overruled that ruling that said, oh, no, actually, nobody can have access to the system from Doge and potentially anyone else outside of the Treasury. And that's what the Friday hearing is going to be about. And then there'll be a subsequent one, I think, to suss out the overarching issue at hand here. So just wanted to make that caveat cool.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah. Appreciate it. I think. All the same, with all that said, I think this is two. I think this is number two for me. I think there is a way that you can say no action's really been taken yet, like, with this access. So that's a mitigating thing. It's laying a foundation or groundwork. So I'm not gonna say that building's fascist until I see the building, which, by the way, I do think some buildings are fascist. But that's a conversation.

[Will K. Back]

We'll do a rank of architectural features or design with you.

[Ari Weitzman]

Sure. In the future, we'll go from the brutalist to brutalism.

[Will K. Back]

Right, right. I see. I was going to ask. We won't go back to the movies, but anyways, I think if people like this format, the next one we should do is have you talk about architecture.

[Ari Weitzman]

Architecture. I don't know.

[Will K. Back]

Study up. Or design. Or design. Okay. Because I've walked around New York City with you, and I've seen you point out things that I would never notice on buildings.

[Ari Weitzman]

Yeah. I don't know where that comes from. Okay, so this is a bit of a spur, so we'll get back onto the main road here.

[Will K. Back]

But if you like this topic and you want to hear Ari talk about this stuff, if you like this format and you want to hear Ari Rank, architecture, design, whatever it is we land.

[Ari Weitzman]

On, reach out to us. That email is isaacangle.com and if you.

[Will K. Back]

Get a paternity leave email, just keep sending it. There's an issue with this Gmail right now. You got to just keep sending it, then it'll pass. Just spam it.

[Ari Weitzman]

So, speaking of spamming. Yeah. Doge, I think the big concern is anything that Musk touches is improper. It just, like, bottom line, it is. Like, you can love the fact that we're looking for cuts in the government. You can even say the places that he's looking are appropriate. I disagree. We've said this pretty much from the very beginning, whether it's me or you or Isaac or Aiden. Like, I don't think our shorts producer, I don't think he's gotten into Doge too much. But we've talked about in Slack, a unanimous point of view amongst this Tangle editorial team is if you want to cut the budget and we should want to do that, we should want to trim the deficit, we should want to address the debt. The way you do that is by cutting where the biggest cuts are to be found. And that is healthcare, military and Social Security. That's where you're going to find it. If you're not looking there and like maybe a little bit in Department of Education, Veterans affairs is also large, but that covers like two of those areas. If you're not looking in those areas, you're just playing a side game. And it's kind of for show, but with the added caveat that what I said earlier, if Musk is touching it, it's improper because his just his existence in those offices in the federal government is a conflict of interest. Something we mentioned last week.

[Will K. Back]

You think, you think it inherently is for sure.

[Ari Weitzman]

Okay, I do something that I mentioned. I, I don't know if it was last week or the week before was the Teapot Dome scandal involving President Warren Harding and how that was like the, the governmental definition of corruption into Watergate. And when you look at it now, it just sounds like business as usual. And I think like the Overton window shifted so much for what we think of as acceptable comportment for government that we don't even see what Musk is doing is like even that bad. Like, this is a headline that happened today. Was X settled with the federal government?

[John Mull]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive producer of YouTube and podcast content and co host of the daily podcast. I hope you enjoyed this preview of our Sunday podcast with Ari and Isaac. We are now offering this podcast exclusively to our premium podcast members along with our ad, free daily podcasts, Friday editions, in depth interviews, upcoming new podcast series, bonus content, and much more. If you want to receive all that and give your support to help grow Tangle Media, Please go to readtangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, a podcast membership, or a D discounted bundle membership which gets you both access to the premium newsletter and the premium podcast. If it's not the right time for you to sign up, please don't worry. Our ad supported daily podcast isn't going anywhere, but if it is in your ability to support by signing up for a membership, we would greatly appreciate it and we're really excited to share all of our premium offerings with you. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Mull signing off. Have a great day, y'all.

[Ari Weitzman]

Take care.

[Will K. Back]

Bye.

[Ari Weitzman]

Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by John Wall. The script is edited by our Managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will K. Back, Bailey Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social Media Manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75 and if you're looking for more from Tangle, Please go to retangle.com and check out our website.

[Isaac Saul]

There's one thing that will forever change the way you sleep and it's the softest 100% organic cotton bedding from Bol and Branch. You'll fall asleep faster wrapped in the most luxurious comfort. You'll never sleep hot again. With airy blankets, cloud like duvets and breathable sheets. You'll experience pure comfort on night one and feel your bedding get softer with every wash. Discover the difference with 15% off your first [e-mail] with code buttery exclusions apply. See site for details. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Not only will you find a great selection of frames, you'll also meet helpful advisors and friendly optometrists. Yep, many Warby Parker locations also offer eye exams, so the next time you need glasses, sunglasses, contact lenses or a new prescription, you know where to look. To find a Warby Parker store near you or to book an eye examination, head over to warbyparker.com retail worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market, the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1,000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality, organic and sustainable brands, all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start [e-mail] podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift.