PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac and Ari talk Amish culture, Greenland, and Los Angeles.

Summary

Podcast Summary: PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac and Ari Talk Amish Culture, Greenland, and Los Angeles

Podcast Information:

• Title: Tangle
• Host/Author: Isaac Saul
• Episode: PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac and Ari talk Amish culture, Greenland, and Los Angeles
• Release Date: January 12, 2025
• Description: An independent, non-partisan political news podcast featuring diverse perspectives from across the political spectrum, insightful interviews, and engaging discussions on current events.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this preview episode of "The Sunday Podcast," hosts Isaac Saul and Ari Weitzman delve into a variety of engaging topics, including Amish culture, former President Donald Trump's controversial Greenland acquisition plan, and the complexities of political grievances in contemporary America.

2. Exploring Amish Culture

Isaac Saul's Amish Country Experience [02:19 - 05:32]:

Isaac shares his recent visit to Amish country in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, detailing his transformative experience away from the hustle of city life. He praises the Amish for their commitment to manual labor, woodworking, and living off the land, highlighting the community's peaceful and humble nature.

Isaac Saul [02:55]:
"The Amish are pacifist, kind, friendly, open-door type people. They're all so committed to not subscribing to modernity and just, you know, their whole lives revolve around manual labor and working the land."

Isaac also touches on the misconceptions and negative press surrounding the Amish, emphasizing that every community has its flaws, including insular ones like the Amish. He mentions his interactions with Amish families, offering rides in horse-drawn buggies and engaging with their livestock, which deepened his appreciation for their lifestyle.

Ari Weitzman's Perspective on the Amish [05:32 - 07:28]:

Ari provides a balanced view, acknowledging the beauty and simplicity of Amish life while addressing the darker reports of abuse within the community. He criticizes the fetishization of Amish as an idyllic, pure society, arguing that all human communities have inherent flaws and trade-offs.

Ari Weitzman [06:10]:
"Every human community is a human community and it always has its own flaws, trade-offs, and costs. As much as we can say, I'm sure the reports about abuse in Amish communities were overblown, I'm sure they're still real."

3. The Raw Milk Debate

Isaac's Raw Milk Experience [07:28 - 10:41]:

Isaac discusses his newfound interest in raw milk, inspired by Amish farmers. Despite being lactose intolerant, he was able to consume raw milk without adverse effects, sparking his curiosity about its benefits and safety.

Isaac Saul [08:05]:
"I drank a whole gallon of raw milk and it didn't upset my stomach at all. Can you explain that to me?"

Ari's Take on Raw Milk [09:34 - 10:41]:

Ari admits his limited knowledge on dietary issues but recognizes the ongoing debate between raw and pasteurized milk. He expresses a willingness to explore the topic further on the show.

Ari Weitzman [09:34]:
"I think it's all kind of bs. Like there are people who say like we shouldn't be eating bread because it's processed grains, and I think anything that has nutrients that we develop the ability to process is fair game."

4. Trump's Greenland Acquisition Plan

Discussion on Amish Voting Patterns [12:11 - 13:22]:

Isaac and Ari examine the surprising political shift among the Amish community in Pennsylvania, who significantly increased their support for Donald Trump in the 2024 elections compared to 2020. Isaac attributes this change to a backlash against government enforcement actions, such as the raid on Amos Miller's raw milk farm.

Isaac Saul [12:35]:
"The Amish broke for Trump in huge numbers in Pennsylvania after not really supporting him in 2020... There was a government raid at Amos Miller's raw milk farm... and it drove a huge backlash."

Analyzing Trump's Greenland Strategy [15:16 - 18:20]:

Isaac and Ari delve into Donald Trump's audacious proposal to acquire Greenland, discussing its strategic importance. They explore potential implications, including control over vital shipping lanes and access to mineral reserves essential for renewable energy technologies.

Isaac Saul [16:25]:
"Strategically, it is placed in a very, very important spot between us and Russia. China is investing a ton in Greenland right now because they want inroads there."

Ari adds that Trump's unconventional ideas compel the public and media to focus on sensational topics rather than pressing global issues, such as the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Ari Weitzman [17:00]:
"It just shows how good he is at playing the liberals media like a fiddle in the mainstream press."

Geopolitical Implications and Realpolitik [18:20 - 29:59]:

The conversation extends to broader geopolitical strategies, including control over the Panama Canal and increased US influence in North American maritime waters. Isaac argues that while Trump's ideas may seem outlandish, they raise legitimate discussions about national interest and resource control.

Isaac Saul [18:20]:
"Trump is crazy like a fox... I do actually think this is a real conversation we should have."

Ari emphasizes the importance of considering historical contexts and the potential consequences of such geopolitical maneuvers, noting the risks of fracturing NATO alliances and undermining established international relationships.

Ari Weitzman [29:10]:
"France, Germany, Denmark, really critical allies, NATO allies who clearly don't want this to happen. There's strategic risk and all sorts of risk in doing something that fractures that NATO alliance."

5. Quick Pop Quizzes and Audience Engagement

Throughout the episode, Isaac and Ari engage listeners with pop quiz questions related to their discussions, such as estimating Greenland's population. These segments add an interactive and entertaining element to the podcast, fostering a deeper connection with the audience.

Isaac Saul [24:24]:
"Another little quick pop quiz. Do you have a guess on how many people live in Greenland?"

6. Conclusion and Production Notes

The episode concludes with acknowledgments of the podcast's production team and a reminder to visit the Tangle website for more content. While the preview primarily focuses on Amish culture and Trump's geopolitical strategies, listeners can expect these themes to be explored in greater depth in the full episode.

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Notable Quotes:

1. Isaac Saul on Amish Community [02:55]:
   "The Amish are pacifist, kind, friendly, open-door type people. They're all so committed to not subscribing to modernity and just, you know, their whole lives revolve around manual labor and working the land."

2. Ari Weitzman on Community Flaws [06:10]:
   "Every human community is a human community and it always has its own flaws, trade-offs, and costs."

3. Isaac Saul on Raw Milk [08:05]:
   "I drank a whole gallon of raw milk and it didn't upset my stomach at all. Can you explain that to me?"

4. Isaac Saul on Trump's Greenland Plan [16:25]:
   "Strategically, it is placed in a very, very important spot between us and Russia. China is investing a ton in Greenland right now because they want inroads there."

5. Ari Weitzman on Media Manipulation [17:00]:
   "It just shows how good he is at playing the liberals media like a fiddle in the mainstream press."

6. Isaac Saul on Geopolitical Discussions [18:20]:
   "Trump is crazy like a fox... I do actually think this is a real conversation we should have."

7. Ari Weitzman on NATO Risks [29:10]:
   "France, Germany, Denmark, really critical allies, NATO allies who clearly don't want this to happen. There's strategic risk and all sorts of risk in doing something that fractures that NATO alliance."

---

Final Thoughts:

This preview episode offers a compelling glimpse into the dynamic discussions that "The Sunday Podcast" promises. By intertwining personal experiences with broader political analysis, Isaac Saul and Ari Weitzman create an engaging narrative that challenges listeners to consider diverse perspectives on complex issues. From the serene life of the Amish to the audacious political strategies of Donald Trump, the hosts navigate these topics with depth and thoughtfulness, setting the stage for an insightful full episode.

Transcript

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[Isaac Saul]

Coming up, talk a lot about the Amish weirdly and some hot takes on Trump's Greenland plan. The LA fires we play a game and some some very good grievances today where both Ari and I have two things each to complain about because we've been off for too long. You guys are going to enjoy this one.

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From executive producer Isaac Sal, this is Tangle.

[Isaac Saul]

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast. The place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul in freezing cold Philadelphia, Pennsylvania recording this on Thursday, January 9th. Back from our length Christmas New Year's break here with Ari Weitzman, our managing editor. Ari, welcome back to the saddle man.

[Ari Weitzman]

Thanks. It's great to be here in a very wintry and lovely and cold but not bad New England winter. I think it's great to be covered in snow right now. How, how cold is it in Philadelphia?

[Isaac Saul]

We're negative. Sorry, negative.

[Ari Weitzman]

We're excuse me.

[Isaac Saul]

We're 20, 23 degrees with, with like 13 degrees colder. Feel like whatever because of the wind chill. I think it's the feels like IS13. Yeah, it's frigid. I would say I'm still in the phase where I'm liking it like I haven't been cold for long enough where I'm just like it's, it's really in my bones. I'm kind of like it feels refreshing still to step outside. I had a this I had a almost I would say a nearly transformative experience over break. I spent my Christmas break in Amish country.

[Ari Weitzman]

Okay.

[Isaac Saul]

Incredible man. Lancaster, Pennsylvania. I hadn't been in years probably since I was fresh out of college and I Forgot how incredibly, first of all, how incredibly beautiful it is. It's right outside Philly, like an hour outside Philly. We rented an Airbnb for the holidays, me and Phoebe's family. Obviously I'm a Jew, but I get Christmas now because I married a non Jew. So that's fun.

[Ari Weitzman]

And yeah, same.

[Isaac Saul]

Yeah. And it's, it's just rolling. Beautifully taken care of. Small farms, like, not these giant, you can't see the end of them, corn farms, like 10 cattle, some horses, some goats and then just like a small cornfield. And all throughout Pennsylvania. And then the Amish are just like, I, I know there's some bad press around the Amish. I kind of think it's bs. I feel like every, any, every sect of people has like some dark stuff going on, especially these sort of more insular communities. And like, you know, there have been stories about like a, I think a woman came out of the Amish community who said she had been like the victim of rape or incest. And then that whole Amish community is just like, oh, they're, it's like riddled with rape and incest. I'm like, I don't really know if that's true. They, you know, like, and every community in America has these issues. I like these people. I'm standing on ground for the Amish. They are like pacifist, kind, friendly, open door type people. They're all so committed to the, like, not subscribing to modernity and just like, you know, they're, a lot of them are offline. Their whole lives revolve around like manual labor and woodworking and working the land. And I was really moved by, man, it was like a cool week to just go out there and be out of the city and be in this different world. Met a few of the Amish people who came by our Airbnb, you know, waved to the kids. We have offered to give them a ride in the horse and buggy and like, you know, we feed their goats with the little two and four year olds we have in the family. And it was really nice. I have some Amish documentaries I want to watch now. I was also drinking raw milk all week, you know, not that scared of bird flu, whatever, but brought home some raw milk propaganda from the Amish farmers market. Really into raw milk propaganda right now. So there's a lot of big stuff happening in my world on the backs of Christmas. Why are you shaking your head?

[Ari Weitzman]

Because I didn't expect to have to get into all of this right away. I remember it was not in the show notes, but that's fine. We'll talk about the Amish a little bit. I remember when I was 15 years old, one of my defining life experiences was that I had that tumor in my small intestine when I was a kid. And I remember going into the hospital and frequently as I'd be going in and out before surgery, as they were getting me ready for the weeks of recovery to come, and this event itself going in and out of the automatic doors past Amish people in the hospital, which seems like a bit of a contradiction, always did to me that we can have these little communities that insist on their way of life and don't want to be subject to the authoritative overreach of our government and the taxation that we impose until they need the services that modernity applies and then it's a whole different ballgame. And I think it's very common for us to respond to communities that we don't usually interact with that eschew modernity, whether it's the Amish or any other group, by sort of fetishizing them as closer to the land and idyllic and pure. But every human community is a human community and it always has its own flaws, trade offs and costs. And as much as we can say, I'm. The reports about abuse in Amish communities were overblown. I'm sure they're still real. And I think that set of communities still has its own issues as much as it has its benefits as well. Raw milk's a good example. Like that's something that has a lot of biotics, probiotics included in it, but also has risks of bacteria and infection and lack of self stability. And there's trade offs that you get with participating in modernity. And you can do it in part sometimes, but other times when you make it your whole community's ethos and then you go to the hospital that you don't want to pay taxes for, that's when I start to have some issues.

[Isaac Saul]

Wow, Amish hit piece, huh? You're just upset. They want to go get some help.

[Ari Weitzman]

I just want to push back on this propaganda. You're trying to like pedal right off the bat here.

[Isaac Saul]

You're definitely. If like when you're talking about how the Amish and this is true, I read about this when I was out there, how they like resist taxation and dodge like a lot of the government regulation. I'm, I mean, amen, brother. I'm in church. Like, let's. I, I'll, I, I love that about them. They're like so old school. They're just like, we're not even on the books. Just don't even come knocking on our door. If you're the irs, don't knock on the hospital store.

[Ari Weitzman]

Then that's like, that's my response. Like, let's be, let's be consistent.

[Isaac Saul]

Here's this, here's something for you on raw milk. I'm lactose intolerant. Like I would say I'm in denial about being lactose intolerant. I'll put it that way. Like it, I still have cheese and ice cream and stuff and I don't drink milk because if I have a glass of milk, like I really do feel super sick. But I can like take a few lactate pills and have a bowl of ice cream and just like feel crappy for a day. But it's worth it for the ice cream. And I kind of do that pretty regularly. But when we were in Amish country and I consumed some raw milk propaganda pamphlet and then bought a gallon of raw milk from this incredible small like 3 person run farm stand, I drank this whole gallon of raw milk and it didn't upset my stomach at all. Can you explain that to me?

[Ari Weitzman]

I'm not the diet guy. Like I think as much as I. There's so many things where somebody can explain.

[Isaac Saul]

But if you know the answer to why a lactose intolerant person can drink raw milk from. I think it was like a two a two cows or so. I forget what there's like the grades of cow that the milk comes from and I'm totally fine. But my whole life if I have a glass of milk, I get incredibly sick. I would love to know the answer to that question. But I'm a big raw milk guy now. It's good for your teeth. The pamphlet taught me that.

[Ari Weitzman]

I think milk is good for your teeth.

[Isaac Saul]

Shut up.

[Ari Weitzman]

I don't know. Yeah, there's no calcium in milk unless it's raw for sure. I think I, I think there's always like purists who will develop some like diet ideology based on one thing or another. There are people that are pro raw milk who would also say like, we shouldn't be drinking dairy at all and it's unnatural for us to have any sort of milk after we are babies. We aren't meant to consume any lactation of some other animal. I think it's all kind of bs. Like there are people who say like we shouldn't be eating bread because it's processed grains and I think anything that has nutrients that we develop the ability to process is fair game. And I'm not, like I said, I'm not the diet guy. I'm not evangelical about any of this stuff. I'm blessed by not having to pay attention to it because I don't have a whole lot of dietary restrictions biologically, naturally. But maybe if I did, I'd be a little bit more focused on it. I know that there are people who drink raw milk who are fine, and I know that there are people who drink processed, pasteurized milk who are fine. And I guess I just don't care enough. If you want to be the raw milk dude, go for it. And let's, let's start learning this answer together. Let's go on this show.

[Isaac Saul]

I will say I did. I did. I was sucking down a glass of raw milk and got a push notification from the New York Times about bird flu at the same time, like last week. And I was like, huh. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

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[Isaac Saul]

All right, pop quiz. Do you think the Amish voted, supported Trump in Pennsylvania this year or were opposed to Donald Trump in Pennsylvania this year?

[Ari Weitzman]

Good question. I guess, like the lurking question there is how much did they vote? Did they. Can I ask a clarifying question before I give my answer?

[Isaac Saul]

Sure.

[Ari Weitzman]

Did they vote in similar proportions as the rest of the population around. Around them in those counties?

[Isaac Saul]

I don't know the answer to that question, but they voted more in 2024 than they voted in 2020. Is something I'm reading right now as we speak.

[Ari Weitzman]

Man, that's so hard because I don't know what kind of information they're getting. I don't know how they're basing their decisions, I guess, just to make the most derivative, simple. Two brain cells rubbing against each other to get an answer kind of response that I can give you. I'd say for Trump, just because rural pushing against taxation. Those are the trend lines.

[Isaac Saul]

Yeah. According to the Supremely Unreliable. And I would not use this as a news source. The Times of India.indatimes.com the experts on.

[Ari Weitzman]

The Mennonite communities and the Amish.

[Isaac Saul]

Yep, the Amish broke for Trump in huge numbers in Pennsylvania after not really supporting him in 2020. And a big reason why was that There was a government raid at Amos Miller's raw milk farm in Bird in Hand, Pennsylvania, last January, and the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture had received reports of illness linked to raw dairy products sold at the farm and launched an enforcement action. And it drove a huge backlash. And so I took that and plugged it into Google, and now there's a bunch of stories from, like, PBS and Cincinnati Inquirer and the Telegraph about Donald Trump courting the Amish and how much they loved him. And in 2024 and the new York Post, how Trump won Pennsylvania's Amish vote with the help of missionaries and Elon Musk. So, man, there's a lot that we should maybe.

[Ari Weitzman]

Well, that's something that I've always wanted to do, is sort of break into the different cultural divides within the Amish community. Like the idea of the chrome bumper Amish being a little bit more permissive of technology. It is odd to imagine a kind of coalition of people that includes Elon Musk and the Amish. I think they can't imagine two people more opposed on the technology spectrum.

[Isaac Saul]

One of the guys I met when I was out there, one of the Amish guys I met, he owned the house that we were staying in. He said the Amish are in black and the Mennonite are in gray. And that's like a good way to distinguish them when you're in Pennsylvania, Amish country, and that they're a little bit more permissive and the Amish are a little bit more restrictive. But at the end of the day, they're all about pacifism, work in the land, and humility before God. And I can get down with all those things. So I'm just, you know, I. Everybody in the family is making fun of me about how moved I was by my experience there. I was getting sucked into the community.

[Ari Weitzman]

I. I've always appreciated this aspect of your personality, honestly. I think it makes you good at what you do. You just. Anytime you visit a new place you're in with a new culture, you're like, what's this about? I love it. And you love it before you get the answer. And then once you get the answer, you want to support it and understand it and empathize as much as you can. I think it makes you a good reporter, seriously.

[Isaac Saul]

Thanks. I appreciate it. Well, speaking of the Amish and Trump winning, we are officially in. We're in Trump world, man. It didn't take long. He hasn't been inaugurated yet, but it feels like 2016 to me in a very specific way, which is like, we are just talking about Trump buying Greenland, changing the name of Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America, and, you know, making Canada the 51st state. I don't really care. Like, you can feel however you want to feel about Trump. The guy is. He is a. Well, of these, like, unbelievably bombastic, crazy like a fox, so stupid it just might work ideas and just like the stuff that he is capable of putting out. And Main Street, I mean, I. Yeah, I just don't know if there's anybody like him. And I'm. I'm truly not saying that as, like, a criticism or a compliment. It's just. It's just like, I can't believe that it is January 9th. He has not even been inaugurated yet. And I am spent hours reading about the strategic implications of us like, invading Greenland. And, like, that's just where we are. That is where we are now.

[Ari Weitzman]

It's an interesting turn, because if I am just, like, not hearing anything about Trump for two weeks, and I'm sitting out, sitting here a week before his inauguration, and I open my notebook up that says, like, Trump campaign promises for 2025, and I flip through it. I get to the section on foreign policy. The first notes that I would have in my notebook are promised to get peace between Israel and Gaza and peace between Ukraine and Russia before taking office. That's the first line. And I will then bring my head up, turn my microphone on to talk about it, or fire up the computer to write something. And the stories I get are, should the US Take Greenland, should we take the Gulf of. Should we turn the Gulf of Mexico into the Gulf of America? What about the Panama Canal? Canada, the 51st state. And it just shows how good he is at playing the liberals media like a fiddle in the mainstream press. Like a fiddle. Because I'm sure people are ready to write those stories, but instead they're writing these because they're more interesting and we're talking about them. So good job for him, because last I checked, Russia and Ukraine are still at war, and not a lot of people are saying, where's. Where's the plan? What are we going to do about that? Instead, we're asking, what's the Trump Doctrine for North America and for expanding our influences?

[Isaac Saul]

So I just. I mean, just really quickly, the Gulf of America thing, to me, this is, like, such a stupid waste of time to answer the questions that I've gotten about this. Yes. Like, if he wanted to, I mean, it's totally possible we could change the name of Gulf of Mexico to Golf. There's, like, agencies for that, and he could invest political capital in doing that. I don't think he's going to actually do that, but, like, it's just, who cares? Kind of, from my perspective, it's just, like, it would be silly to waste time on it. It's been named the Gulf of Mexico for, like, I think, 400 years. I don't know why I do that. Canada, obviously not becoming the 51st state anytime soon. They're about to have a new prime minister who I think could get along very, very well with Trump potentially, and is also somebody who, like, I don't know, I think he's. He's got the pulse of the country and at least the moment in North American politics right now. So we'll see how that goes. My sort of hot take, I guess, for the day, because I'm not even seeing many conservatives say this. I'm sure some are, but I just haven't seen it as a dominant narrative. I kind of think Trump's right about the Greenland thing. Just like, in a vacuum, if we could acquire Greenland in a peaceful manner, it would be worth the investment. And I know it sounds so ridiculous, and this is sort of like these. This would fall in the category of, like, one of the things that I love about Donald Trump is, like, there is just no other politician who would mainstream this there. To be clear, there are politicians in the past who have suggested and pursued a purchase of Greenland or, you know, us getting territorial control over it, that this is not a new idea. I mean, this was happening, like, the 1800s, but in the last, like, 30 years of all the politicians that we have who are just, like, kind of buttoned up, mainstream, trying to be seen as, like, reasonable, smart, thoughtful people. They'd all be so scared of something like this. And this is the kind of thing where, like, Trump is crazy like a fox. And I think there's actually, like, a really Good, strong argument that he's making that we should be thinking about in a serious way. And I don't think it's that ridiculous. Obviously, I don't think we should take Greenland by force. That goes without saying. But, like, strategically, it is placed in a very, very, very important spot between us and Russia. There is a reason that China is investing a ton in Greenland right now, and it's because they want inroads there. As the Arctic ice melts, there are going to be shipping routes that open up that are going to be so, so, so vital for, like, the global shipping world infrastructure pathways that if we had control over that would obviously be better for us in a nationalistic way than, you know, if Russia had control over it or China had control over it. We already have a military base there. And all of this is, to say nothing of the thing that is just, I mean, it worries me because I don't really want it to happen, but it's realistic, is that there is this huge reserve of minerals there that we need for batteries, the largest in the world. And, like, this is not me suggesting we go plunder Greenland for natural resources, which is like a genuinely horrifying prospect to me given all the things that are happening environmentally on the planet right now. And it's like, in terms of renewable energy, this is like a scary future to think about is the sea floors and the minerals and all this stuff we're going to have to extract to make solar and better batteries happen. But, like, I'm not the only one who knows there's a huge mineral reserve there and it's going to happen. Like, there will be a race to these places once the reserves in other parts of the world run out. And again, like, I would rather us than them. Sort of like, that's where I'm very aligned with Trump on the kind of nationalistic US Perspective. So just throwing it out there that I understand why people think it's ridiculous. I laugh and scam when you see Trump talk about it, and the way he does it in his very Trumpian fashion can be really comical and absurd and to some people, like, irritating and offensive and whatever else. But I would just to put this out there, like, I do actually think this is a real conversation we should have. And I think there's a way to do it that doesn't involve, you know, any kind of bloodshed or violence or, you know, loss of rights for the people of Greenland. So that's my kind of hot take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

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[Isaac Saul]

Another little quick pop quiz. Do you have a guess on how many people live in Greenland? If you don't know the answer to.

[Ari Weitzman]

That question asking me specifically.

[Isaac Saul]

Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

50,000.

[Isaac Saul]

Very good guess. It's 60,000. It's like 58,000. I think we could find a way to appease.

[Ari Weitzman]

Great guess.

[Isaac Saul]

Great guess. Yeah, fantastic guess. Incredible. Really. I never would have. I would have said like 12 or 800,000 or something better.

[Ari Weitzman]

Thank you.

[Isaac Saul]

They like, there's a way to appease 60,000 people in Greenland and like get them on board for something. I'm just saying, like, we, you know, that's like Heinz Field. We could figure that out. We have enough money and resources to figure that out. That's all I'm saying.

[Ari Weitzman]

To put in a campaign that says vote to succeed from Denmark, who currently is like, controlling the autonomous territory of Greenland and become an autonomous territory of the US That's a possible thing. Yeah, I think that's true. And I agree with you that this is an opening salvo from Trump, who's really good at this, of like crazy, like a fox ideas that'll come out that are insane and he'll set the bar really high and then his goal is to end up somewhere down the ladder. And anywhere down the ladder is probably going to be a win for him. So the goal here, like, if you just take a step back, imagine that you're a negotiator and this is your opening offer. What's the thing you probably want? The thing you probably want is just more influence over North American maritime waters. Control influence of the general sphere. You get that with the Panama Canal. You get that with Greenland. You get that with extending more influence over Canada. The Thing you don't want is a protracted military invasion of Canada. That's an absurd thing. I think the thing you want is to say, hey, we're tough, we're going to be tough with you. And then you get a new conservative pm and then you could say good cop, bad cop. Let's be nice, let's treat, let's talk about maybe trade routes past Baffin island. And we're going to try to control Greenland and get a little bit more shipping lanes that are going to be able to access some of this vital resources that we can trade more easily, not just north, but south. What if we get control of the Panama Canal back? We just wrote about Jimmy Carter and he gave control of the canal to Panama starting in 74 with them taking over control of the canal on the promise of neutrality in 99. And it is a lucrative, lucrative passage. Of course there's a reason for the US to want to be in control of it. Take aside anything about fairness or rights. There's this great quote. Maybe you can tell me who said this. I don't recall who said that. Countries don't have friends, they have interests. And in the interests of the US we would want to be able to control vital shipping passages through the heart of the Western hemisphere. So it makes sense for him to be saying these things. I don't think there's a world where we go to war with Panama. But remember, that's how we got the canal in the first place. Was Teddy Roosevelt putting an embargo on Colombia to the point where Panama succeeded from Colombia so we could get a friendly government to treat with to build the canal. So that's kind of history. And that's the way nations historically express their influences, friendship and muscle. And we haven't been the country that's done that to like our allies and or our neutral friends in the Western hemisphere for a long time. But things change. And if we try to reset and imagine what it, what would actually happen if the US started to posture a little bit more towards Greenland, towards Panama? I don't think the US wants to invite more scrutiny by involving its military, but I do think saying, hey, we might, and then trying to turn on a charm offensive in the foreground, that probably makes sense. So if we're worried about the military going out in January 21st to knock on Copenhagen store and demand Greenland, I don't think that's going to happen. But I think the whisper of the threat of that and then a little bit of people going into the Greenland population centers Which, I don't know. Umanok, I can't name another city in Greenland. And talking to people about maybe succeeding, that's. That's possible and there's a reason why it would be in our national interest. So it's a thing that we, that realpolitik is something worth discussing.

[Isaac Saul]

There's obvious problems here. Like, I don't want to pretend there's not. Like, I understand how absurd some of this probably sounds to some people.

[Ari Weitzman]

First of all, we're really waiting in the hypotheticals here.

[Isaac Saul]

Yeah. France, Germany, Denmark, really critical allies, NATO allies who clearly don't want this to happen. And there's strategic risk and all sorts of risk in doing something that fractures that NATO alliance, especially in this moment. So there's national security stuff there and just like general global alignment, things that are worrisome if Trump were to do something like this. Also, there's an inherent contradiction. I mean, in just Trump's whole worldview, this whole. He's an isolationist. He doesn't want to start.

[John Law]

Hey, everybody, this is John, executive producer of YouTube and podcast content and co host of the daily podcast. I hope you enjoyed this preview of our Sunday podcast with Ari and Isaac. We are now offering this podcast exclusively to our premium podcast members along with our ad, free daily podcasts, Friday editions, in depth interviews, upcoming new podcast series, bonus content, and much more. If you want to receive all that and give your support to help us grow Tangle Media, please head over to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for a membership. If it's not the right time for you to sign up, please don't worry. Our ad supported daily podcast isn't going anywhere. But if it is a your ability to support by signing up for a membership, we would greatly appreciate it and we're really excited to share all of our premium offerings with you. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all.

[Ari Weitzman]

Take care.

[Isaac Saul]

Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Wall. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kbach, Bailey Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bacopa, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. If you're looking for more from Tangle, Please go to readtangle.com and check out our website.

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