PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac, Ari, and Jon talk about birthright citizenship.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Tangle – "PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac, Ari, and Jon Talk About Birthright Citizenship"

Release Date: December 15, 2024
Host: Isaac Saul
Guests: Ari Weitzman, John Law
Title: "PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac, Ari, and Jon Talk About Birthright Citizenship"

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Introduction

In the December 15, 2024 episode of Tangle, host Isaac Saul previews the upcoming Sunday podcast featuring discussions on two significant topics: the Karen debate and birthright citizenship. Joining him are Ari Weitzman, the managing editor, and John Law, the podcast producer and co-host. The episode blends lighthearted banter with in-depth political discourse, offering listeners a balanced perspective on contemporary issues.

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1. The Karen Debate

[02:14] John Law:
The episode kicks off with a humorous yet contentious discussion about a viral video depicting a "Karen" confronting a dog owner in Fort Collins. The video shows a middle-aged woman attempting to prevent someone with a service dog from enjoying a walk in a public park. Conservative pundit Matt Walsh retweeted the video, criticizing the dog's owner and praising "Karens" for upholding societal standards.

[07:52] Ari Weitzman:
Ari, a dog owner himself, shares his frustration with the overabundance of dogs in public places, particularly in establishments like Home Depot. He expresses concern about the legitimacy of service animals and the challenges service workers face in distinguishing them from regular pets. Ari states:

"It sort of annoys me to have dogs everywhere all the time. ... People just have their dogs come in, they'd shit on the floor or pee. ... People have had very bad experiences with dogs or are from cultures where dogs aren't seen as normal domesticated pets."

[10:17] John Law:
John initially supports the "Karen" in the video but later acknowledges that the dog owner might have been within legal rights to have the service animal in the park. He emphasizes the importance of nuanced understanding and appreciates "Karens" who uphold high societal standards without crossing into being overly confrontational.

"I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society."

[14:51] John Law:
Further delving into the debate, John distinguishes between different types of "Karens," preferring those who speak their mind respectfully over confrontational individuals who may escalate situations unnecessarily.

"I like the Karen who sees something and says something. ... I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society."

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2. Birthright Citizenship

Transitioning from the lighter debate, the hosts delve into the more serious and personal topic of birthright citizenship.

[13:00] John Law:
John introduces the topic by highlighting the complexities surrounding birthright citizenship, particularly in the context of recent political discussions spearheaded by figures like former President Trump. He raises concerns about the feasibility and moral implications of altering longstanding legal precedents.

[18:13] Isaac Saul:
Isaac shares his personal narrative as a second-generation American with immigrant parents from India and Pakistan. He reflects on his parents' efforts to assimilate into American society, emphasizing the challenges and aspirations that shaped his understanding of citizenship and national identity.

"I can't imagine what it would be like if at this point, or even, you know, when I'm like 12, 13 years old, having gone to American schools and learned the language and, you know, fit into this culture, what it would be like to have to go to a, you know, a country that I don't really feel connected to or know anything about."

[25:15] John Law:
John critiques the motivation behind attempts to end birthright citizenship, suggesting that the belief it incentivizes illegal immigration is unfounded. He argues that most immigrants come for reasons beyond circumventing citizenship laws, such as reuniting with family.

"I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all. I think people come here for other reasons because they have family already here."

[26:12] Ari Weitzman:
Ari clarifies the legal distinctions between jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of soil), explaining that the U.S. currently incorporates both principles in its citizenship laws. He cautions against conflating the two, noting that they address different aspects of citizenship acquisition.

"There are two different branches, just as a clarification of ways. One is jus sanguinis, which is the right of blood... The other is jus soli, which is the right of soil... it's not them both. It's like blood or soil."

[28:05] Isaac Saul:
Isaac reinforces the importance of maintaining clear and consistent definitions of what it means to be an American, grounded in legal precedents. He argues that altering birthright citizenship would redefine American identity and weaken existing legal structures.

"I don't think anybody comes here illegally and doesn't know that they're not doing that. ... if you're willing to do all that, you're kind of, in a sense, you're already swearing an oath to this country."

[29:37] John Law:
John concludes the discussion by addressing the ideological underpinnings of the birthright citizenship debate. He expresses skepticism about the notion that birthright citizenship is a significant factor in immigration patterns, suggesting that structural incentives are more complex and multifaceted.

"If you fundamentally believe that this is an incentive to come to the United States, then it's worth ending. ... I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all."

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Conclusion

The episode adeptly balances casual commentary with profound political debate, providing listeners with both entertainment and thoughtful analysis. Isaac, Ari, and John navigate the nuances of the Karen phenomenon and the contentious issue of birthright citizenship, offering diverse perspectives rooted in personal experiences and legal understanding. The discussion underscores the complexity of defining national identity and the challenges inherent in balancing societal standards with inclusive citizenship policies.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ari Weitzman [07:52]:
  "It sort of annoys me to have dogs everywhere all the time. ... People just have their dogs come in, they'd shit on the floor or pee. ... People have had very bad experiences with dogs or are from cultures where dogs aren't seen as normal domesticated pets."

• John Law [10:20]:
  "I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society."

• Isaac Saul [18:13]:
  "I can't imagine what it would be like if at this point, or even, you know, when I'm like 12, 13 years old, having gone to American schools and learned the language and, you know, fit into this culture, what it would be like to have to go to a, you know, a country that I don't really feel connected to or know anything about."

• John Law [29:37]:
  "If you fundamentally believe that this is an incentive to come to the United States, then it's worth ending. ... I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and perspectives presented in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Isaac Saul]

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[Ari Weitzman]

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[John Law]

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[Isaac Saul]

Your family wants new phones, so how do we know? They told us.

[John Law]

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[John Law]

I want to keep saying blood and soil, but Ari warned me not to. So blood and soil.

[Ari Weitzman]

Rightly, I'll say. Yeah, just to try to get you to not accidentally chant Nazi slogans. I think is me doing my job. But I think just really quick, just.

[John Law]

Sorry, I just googled blood and soil and the first thing that comes up is blood and soil is a nationalist slogan expressing Nazi Germany's ideal of a racially defined national body. Yeah, my bad. I'm sorry. I was just having a good time. Jesus I'm a Jew. I don't support Nazi Germany. Come on.

[Ari Weitzman]

Maybe we'll qualify and put that at the beginning of the.

[John Law]

Yeah. Coming up, we talk birthright citizenship. I say blood and soil maybe one or two or three too many times before I realize what I'm saying. We talk about the Karen debate and then some very good games and grievances. It's a good one. We're joined by John Law. You guys are going to enjoy it.

[Isaac Saul]

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

[John Law]

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, I'm being joined by Ari Weitzman, our managing editor and John Law in the chair. Today, Tangle's trusty podcast producer and sometimes co host. Well, kind of always co host. Now, John, how you doing, man?

[Isaac Saul]

I'm doing great, man. How about you?

[John Law]

I'm good. I'm glad to have you here, Ari. You hanging in there? You look super. Vermont today, Ari. I wish people could see your outfit.

[Ari Weitzman]

Well, I guess that's up to John then if he wants to share any of my extremely low quality video with our watchers online. But yeah, it's a, it's a nice cozy day up in Vermont. Very sunny and a crisp 20 degrees outside in Burlington. So perfect winter day.

[John Law]

How would you describe the sweater you're wearing? What's the, what's that pattern called?

[Ari Weitzman]

It's called Peruvian Etsy, I guess is the way I describe it. I've seen probably every time I go out to like anywhere that's kind of trendy in any city that I'm visiting, I see like a early 30s, late 20s woman wearing this exact sweater. Like I think I saw two or three people wearing this exact pattern in Bend, Oregon when we visited for our team retreat.

[Isaac Saul]

Would that be considered a Fair Isle sweater?

[Ari Weitzman]

I don't know what that means.

[Isaac Saul]

All right, I'm going to say it's a Fair Isle sweater. And I would also say where I'm from, we would call that a Cosby sweater. But that doesn't, that doesn't really hold. Well now it's just, I. Yeah.

[John Law]

To just paint the picture. The reason I asked what the pattern is, because I'd love to describe to our audience why I said that, which is just that it's Peruvian Etsy sweater, beautiful, like maroon wool knit hat and a half grown in beard, which is just like Chef's Kiss Vermont to the tee. Um, so Ari's killing it today. Walking the walk.

[Isaac Saul]

Yeah.

[Ari Weitzman]

Second that. Sometimes you acclimate to the place you go and sometimes you go there because you're already acclimated. So I'm 50. 50, I think.

[John Law]

I love it. All right, well, we brought John in today for two very important reasons. One is because he now lives in Fort Collins, Colorado, and there's a very nice Karen debate that happened on the Internet that we want to talk about. And the story is from Fort Collins, so it felt appropriate. And two is because we talked birthright citizenship in today's newsletter on Thursday. And John is has an immigration story and we want to talk shop with him about it. I'm trying to get his perspective and insert it into the convo from the Tangle team. So I'm curious to get his thoughts. So you've got one complete nonsense bullshit segment with John and then one really serious personal one. So we'll start with the nonsense. How do we describe this video? I guess what's like the best? Basically, somebody tweeted a thing that said, we don't hate Karen's enough. This was actually at the end of November, so it's a little dated, but it's been in our show notes for a while and we're finally getting into getting to it. And then the caption says, watch as one tries to lecture and stop a person with a service dog from enjoying a walk in Fort Collins. And the conservative pundit Matt Walsh retweeted the video with a counter take, which was, actually, we don't appreciate Karen's enough. Some people think they can just do whatever the hell they want and break any rule they want. Dog owners in particular seem to think they're imbued with the mystical right to bring their dogs anywhere and everywhere all the time. They aren't. Even if you call your dog a quote unquote service animal, that still doesn't entitle you to bring your dog to any and all locations on God's green earth. Karens are the only ones with the guts to call these assholes out to their faces. I think that's great. Thank God for Karen's AKA middle aged white women who don't have time for your bullshit. This was a divisive topic both on the Internet and amongst the Tangle team. I have my views. I side with Matt Walsh. I have my views, but I'm going to let you guys go first. Ari, you want to share your thoughts on the Karen debate? You're a dog owner, so immediately like you would. You would be excluded, dismissed from this jury pool. Just for the record, I am one.

[Ari Weitzman]

Of those dog owners that rolls my eyes when people bring their dogs into stores where they probably should not. Like, we recently had been going into Home Depot to get a lot of paint and primer for a home project. And we see two, three dogs every time we go in our stays in the car where she can lie down and chill and not, like, stress out and be a hindrance to us as we're trying to get lots of stuff for painting supplies. It sort of annoys me to have dogs everywhere all the time. It was also a problem when we used to live in San Francisco, and Even then in 2018 or so, people just had this expectation, you can bring your dogs into places. There's no way of ensuring that somebody's dog is a genuine service animal. You can just, like, throw a jacket on somebody. But most of the time, the dog wasn't even wearing a label or any sort of vest that said service animal. People just have their dogs come in, they'd shit on the floor or pee. Like, it had to become a thing where some baristas or just service workers had to clean up after dogs as part of their jobs, which sucks. And it's also food establishments. Like, that's kind of tenuous and if not just outright dangerous. And I'm, you know, maybe protesting too much here, but that's a little bit of where I come from. I think I sort of lean the other way as a dog owner that, like, come on, like, have a little bit of restraint. That said, this is an outdoor situation at a public park in Fort Collins. I do sort of similarly strain when I hear about comfort animal versus service animal. And you're not legally required to answer questions of why do you have the service animal? So you can. It's hard to enforce that, which is a. There's reasonable reasons for that being the case. Not all disabilities are visible, so I get that. But service animals are allowed in federal parklands, on trails where any other dog is allowed. And in the city of Fort Collins, I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to have service animals in public parks. So I think technically the Karen's wrong here, but I appreciate the work that Karen's do and the role they serve in our society. In a way, we can get to that as, like, a secondary point. But that's. That's my whole bit.

[John Law]

Loser. No, I'm totally with you about what?

[Ari Weitzman]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Follow up on that. What.

[John Law]

What specifically Then I also have some appreciation for the role Karen's play in society, I have to say. And when I first saw this video, I was totally on the side of the Karen, and I completely thought she was in the right, that this person was like, bringing their dog, their quote, unquote service animal. Because I know a lot of people who have service animals. I'm doing air quotes and we know who you are. But it turns out that the people with the dog appear to actually be right, that there is an exception for service animals in Fort Collins, which I didn't know when the initial video came out. So I guess that makes the Karen technically wrong. But, like, emotionally, I.

[Ari Weitzman]

She's your comfort Karen. She's your emotional comfort Karen.

[John Law]

Yeah, I don't like rats, like, like tattletales like Karen's who like, call the cops or like, you know, get me the manager. I don't like that kind of Karen, confrontational Karen who's just, like, telling you when you're being out of pocket. I like that Karen. I'm like, I've seen some older women who are just like, they see something and they say something. And honestly, I'm with that. Like, speak your mind, you know, don't call the cops. Don't be a tattletale. But like, I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society. So, you know. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break. It's the Monday you've been waiting for.

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[John Law]

What do you think, John? You're the Fort Collins guy.

[Isaac Saul]

I am. Kind of like for a few months.

[Ari Weitzman]

John hates being called the Fort Collins guy.

[John Law]

I really do.

[Isaac Saul]

But to go back to what you just said, I feel like you just described the difference between a New Yorker and a Karen. Basically just somebody who tells it how it is and Gives you the truth, not necessarily considering saying it the right way or whatever. Just very bluntly, directly telling you, hey, you can't do that, versus a Karen who's like, you can't do that. And I'm going to get some kind of authority to tell you, you can't do that. So I feel better about my judgment. So in this lady's case, like, I guess in her mind, like, sure, she's, like, doing the right thing or whatever and trying to help other people who seem to be upset about this, but there's no one else around. It's literally her on the trail by herself, and there is, like, a wide berth. Like, she could just walk around, no problem. But she definitely took the time out of her day to fight for this, you know, imaginary group of people who are disturbed by this.

[John Law]

I guess I haven't watched a video in a little bit, but I feel like she says that, like, the dog's, like, peeing somewhere or something, and she's saying that that's gonna, like, kill the wildlife or. I don't know. There was some other element of it, too, where I was like, yeah, she's definitely right about that. Like, hell, yeah. Tell them they'll leash that dog up and put him back in the car.

[Ari Weitzman]

But to be fair, the dog's already leashed. But, yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, yeah.

[John Law]

Tomato, tomato.

[Ari Weitzman]

There's a. The person the imaginary group she's sticking up for could include herself. I think this is a thing that's really common amongst dog owners. Speaking as one that you can't imagine why somebody would be threatened by your animal, knowing it to be a lovely, personable animal. Whereas so many people have had different experiences with dogs. A lot of people have had, like, very bad experiences with dogs or are from cultures where dogs aren't seen as normal domesticated pets. So it's extremely reasonable that this person would be like, I don't want to see. That's a sizable dog that this person has. I don't want to see a dog in this park where I go to relax. That's a natural area that's supposed to be conserved. Even though we're on a path and, like, the park sort of accounts for that, it's reasonable for somebody to say, like, I want. I'm getting annoyed. It's my space, and I see all these dogs here. I'm doubting, probably, as you're expressing, Isaac, that some of these dogs are legitimately service animals and you're not allowed to have your pet dog here. And that's true, but a service animal is different, and it's a tough line to walk.

[John Law]

There's a lot of really dumb Internet like genres of content, but I watch all the Karen videos. I got to say, if someone, if someone puts Karen in the caption of the video, I'm like, I got two minutes for this. I'll totally see what's going on here. So I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff. All right, well, speaking of dogs, we brought John on here for a reason, you know. All right, come on, that's good. That's like top 10 for me at least. And I think since this is a serious topic, I want to give it a serious introduction. We wrote about the birthright citizenship issue in the newsletter today and talked about on the podcast as we record this Thursday. I couldn't have really stated my conclusions, I guess, much clearer than I did, which is just like, I don't think this is a real thing in the sense that I don't think Trump has a chance to change birthright citizenship precedent, though. You know, I've been surprised before. I just feel like he has no real path and I think he's on the wrong side of the argument. But unlike, you know, the Brian Thompson story that we covered earlier this week, I don't really have a super personal connection or like horse in the race here. You know, I'm not like a first generation immigrant. I have a lot of family and friends on the border, and that sort of makes it relate to me in a specific way. But honestly, I think even most of them and even the ones who are here illegally, I don't think they're in as much of a threat because they have jobs and they have, like, established themselves here and a lot of them are in the process of getting papers and it's just a little different. But there's a real story that could really impact a lot of people. As we were putting the podcast together, John messaged me and was like, hey, I've got some thoughts about this. So I thought it'd be really interesting to give some space to that on the podcast. So, John, I don't know the best way to introduce this, but maybe you could tell our audience a little bit about your personal story and kind of what it was like for you and what you're thinking when you watch some of this unfold.

[Isaac Saul]

Yeah. So I'm a second generation American, meaning my parents were first generation immigrants. They came here from my mom from India, my dad from Pakistan. They moved together to New Jersey. Both my Brother and I were born and raised in New Jersey. So my parents. Well, my mom has been back to India one time since she moved here, mostly for reasons that have to do with affordability of traveling with an entire family back there. So she took me and my brother there when we were, like, I was five, my brother was eight. And even then, I just remember feeling, you know, like this is an entirely different world that I don't know or understand or feel connected to. When my parents decided to move here, the idea was, you know, to, I think, like, for most immigrants who come to the country, they want to give their children a chance at a better life, right? Or they want to just somehow, you know, make a way for a better path. And like most immigrant parents, my parents tried to Americanize me and my brother as much as possible. So they didn't teach us Hindi or Urdu, which my dad spoke. We didn't talk too much about our culture. We didn't talk too much about family members. It was just, go to this American school and learn the language and play sports and eat McDonald's and do whatever it takes to fit in and acclimate so that you don't have to experience the things we did coming over here. You know, my dad was. My dad was a student at a theological seminary in New Jersey. Was supposed to. Wanted to be a minister, was supposed to be one, but couldn't find a church to finish his ministry. So he talks about that story or he's passed, but he talked about that story a lot, about how it was difficult for him to find a new home in America, but wanted it for us so badly. So I guess just as it relates to birthright citizenship, I can't imagine what it would be like if at this point, or even, you know, when I'm like 12, 13 years old, having gone to American schools and learned the language and, you know, fit into this culture, what it would be like to have to go to a, you know, a country that I don't really feel connected to or know anything about.

[John Law]

We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

[Isaac Saul]

Hi, this is Jonathan Fields, host of the Good Life Project, where each week I talk to listeners about investing in their future by increasing their own vitality. But when it comes to those financial goals, whether it be saving for a home renovation, growing your child's college fund, or travel, life can make it difficult to stay the course. By working with a dedicated Merill advisor, you get a personalized plan and. And a clear path forward. Having the bullet your back helps your whole Financial life move with you. So when your plans change, Merrill's with you every step of the way. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing Involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated. Registered Broker Dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member SIPC Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means. Well, here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular. Your family wants new phones. How do we know?

[Ari Weitzman]

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[John Law]

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think there's, there are a couple things come to mind. One is like, you know, I sort of mentioned this in the newsletter, but there is something really bizarre happening here with people who are supporting the push to end birthright citizenship where they're just not addressing the other half of the birthright citizenship question, which is like the ancestry part. So I use the example of Ted Cruz, who's born in Canada and his mom is an American citizen and his dad was Cuban or is Cuban. Was Cuban. And he's considered more American than, you know, to these people, than someone who's like, born in the country to two parents who have been here for 20 or 30 years, most of their lives, only because those people don't yet have legal citizenship. And like, to me, that just like in a vacuum doesn't really pass a basic sniff test. I guess the thing we didn't talk about in the newsletter that I think is more interesting is, or maybe also interesting is not so much the legal question, but the sort of morality of it, which is interesting. Like, and I don't know how you guys feel about it, I would say I think the people who oppose birthright citizenship, the, the kind of blood and soil birthright citizenship we're talking about, which is like, if you're born in the US You're a US Citizen, they see a weakness in the country by adopting this idea. They see like that to them means open borders. Somebody comes here, they don't have to be here legally, they don't have to have come here legally, they can have kids here and those kids get all the benefits of being American and that's it. And I actually understand that perspective. I think something that like, splits me a little bit on this issue from the social conservatives is just like, I sort of feel patriotic about that in some way. Like, I. To me, it's like, that's a cool feature of a country. It's just like, it doesn't matter who you are or where you came from. Like, if you were of the blood and soil of the United States of America, like, you're an American baby. And I'm like, hell yeah. Like, that kind of gets that to me is like, I almost like, put that up next to like, you know, my AR and motorcycle. You know what I mean? I'm just like, America, dude. Like, blood and soil. This is it. But for some reason, it just doesn't connect there for them, which I find kind of interesting and feels like something we didn't really get to explore in the newsletter at all today that I thought would be kind of fun to talk about.

[Ari Weitzman]

I want John to give you the space to respond, but I just want to jump in with something which is like, there are two different branches, just as a clarification of ways. Paths to naturalization for citizenship or paths to citizenship. One is juice sanguinus, which is the right of blood. Blood, Right. Which is what the Ted Cruz case is. He is. His father's an American citizen that passes through. The other is jus sully, which is the right of soil. So if you're born here, that's birthright citizenship. So two different things. And also that, like, just like blood and soil is like kind of a nativist trope. So just to like.

[John Law]

Yeah, it is.

[Ari Weitzman]

Careful.

[John Law]

But that's. But that. But that's what I'm saying, though. Like, I like, it is a nativist trope. And also blood and soil is literally like the legal roots of what encompasses the entirety of the birthright citizenship picture. And that's what I'm saying.

[Ari Weitzman]

That's what I'm trying to clarify is that it's actually one or the other. It's like a birthright. It's like blood, right? Or birthright. So it's not them both. It's like blood or soil.

[John Law]

But we have. But we have both in the United States. Like, we subscribe to a total birthright citizenship, which is that it is either blood or soil, but it's blood. Like the full encompassment of what we do in our country is blood and soil. That's what I'm saying is like, you're either of like, you were born here of the soil or you have a parent who's American and you're of the blood. And that's. And I just find it a little bit funny that in, like, this sort of nationalistic culture, we also. We, like, don't take pride in that. And there's, like, a lot of that conservative socialism about America that I personally subscribe to and, like, sort of gets my blood going. And I like that. And I like that. Like, to me, that fits into my imagination and, like, a picture of American patriotism, but it just totally doesn't for the modern right or for. Not. Not the. Totally, like, it totally doesn't for this faction of the right that wants to end birthright citizenship, which is interesting, but. Yeah, go ahead, John.

[Isaac Saul]

Well, you know, it's funny. I was just thinking the other day that Ari had written this article, what is a liberal? And I think a lot of these questions are coming up now, especially with the incoming administration. And now the question. Another question is, what is an American? And to me, it's obviously precedent. It's well documented for a hundred years. For over 100 years. Now, if you're born, you know, here, regardless of citizenship, as long if you are sub. What is the line? It's like if you are subject to the jurisdiction.

[Ari Weitzman]

Jurisdiction, yeah. Of the United States.

[Isaac Saul]

Right. Which everyone is right. If you break the law here, you know, you are subject to the laws of this land or you're deported one way or another, you kind of accept that. And I think the people who come here accept that, too. I don't think anybody comes here, you know, if you, you know, however you want to phrase it. But I don't think anybody comes here illegally and doesn't know that they're not doing that. You know, they come into this country knowing and fully accepting that there's, you know, this is breaking the law, but also this is the. This is the law of the land, and this is the best path forward. And I think they come here with the best of intentions. I think most immigrants come here and they want to learn the language, they want to work. They are fine with paying taxes. They understand that. They don't. I mean, they understand that they don't even get the full rights of being an American citizen, but are willing to do whatever it takes to be here to provide an opportunity for their children to grow up and be American citizens. I think if you're willing to do all that, you're kind of, in a sense, you're already swearing an oath to this country. So I don't see a reason that makes sense to me other than. I get that right now. There's an overflow of immigration. And so it kind of feels like this is a chance to cut it off, almost like at the top to make sure that it doesn't keep happening. But I don't really see it as that. I see it as us changing the rules of what an American is.

[John Law]

I think the reason is if you fundamentally believe that this is an incentive to come to the United States, then it's worth ending. And now, I mean, as we're having this conversation, I'm like, I wish I also addressed that maybe in the newsletter today. But like, you have to, you have to be at the starting point where people are coming here to have kids to like the quote, unquote, anchor baby. Like, that's sort of the derogatory term a lot of people use to describe this idea of like, oh, somebody comes here when they're pregnant or to have kids in order to get citizenship for themselves eventually, because the hope is their children get citizenship and that helps fast track them in the immigration process. So you have to believe that that's a real incentive, I think, to then look at birthright citizenship and be like, this is a way to stop it. And maybe that's a disconnect for me too, because I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all. I think people come here for other reasons because they have family already here.

[Isaac Saul]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive producer of YouTube and podcast content and co host of the daily podcast. I hope you enjoyed this preview of our subscribers Sunday podcast with Ari and Isaac. We are now offering this podcast exclusively to our premium podcast members along with our ad free daily podcasts, Friday editions, in depth interviews, upcoming new podcast series, bonus content and much more. If you want to receive all that and give your support to help us grow Tangle Media, please head over to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for a membership. If it's not the right time for you to sign up, please don't worry. Our ad supported daily podcast isn't going anywhere. But if it is in your ability to support by signing up for a membership, we would greatly appreciate it and we're really excited to share all of our premium offerings with you. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Mul signing off. Have a great day. Y'all.

[Ari Weitzman]

Take care.

[John Law]

Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Wall. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bo, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to read Tangle and check out our website.

[Isaac Saul]

Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular.

[John Law]

Not sure what that means. Well, here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular.

[Isaac Saul]

Your family wants new phones, so how do we know? They told us.

[John Law]

Yeah, the good news is that compared.

[Isaac Saul]

To wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints. So take the hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month US cellular built for.

[Ari Weitzman]

Us this holiday season.

[Isaac Saul]

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