Podcast Summary: Tangle – "PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac, Ari, and Jon Talk About Birthright Citizenship"

Release Date: December 15, 2024
Host: Isaac Saul
Guests: Ari Weitzman, John Law
Title: "PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac, Ari, and Jon Talk About Birthright Citizenship"

Introduction

In the December 15, 2024 episode of Tangle, host Isaac Saul previews the upcoming Sunday podcast featuring discussions on two significant topics: the Karen debate and birthright citizenship. Joining him are Ari Weitzman, the managing editor, and John Law, the podcast producer and co-host. The episode blends lighthearted banter with in-depth political discourse, offering listeners a balanced perspective on contemporary issues.

1. The Karen Debate

[02:14] John Law:
The episode kicks off with a humorous yet contentious discussion about a viral video depicting a "Karen" confronting a dog owner in Fort Collins. The video shows a middle-aged woman attempting to prevent someone with a service dog from enjoying a walk in a public park. Conservative pundit Matt Walsh retweeted the video, criticizing the dog's owner and praising "Karens" for upholding societal standards.

[07:52] Ari Weitzman:
Ari, a dog owner himself, shares his frustration with the overabundance of dogs in public places, particularly in establishments like Home Depot. He expresses concern about the legitimacy of service animals and the challenges service workers face in distinguishing them from regular pets. Ari states:

"It sort of annoys me to have dogs everywhere all the time. ... People just have their dogs come in, they'd shit on the floor or pee. ... People have had very bad experiences with dogs or are from cultures where dogs aren't seen as normal domesticated pets."

[10:17] John Law:
John initially supports the "Karen" in the video but later acknowledges that the dog owner might have been within legal rights to have the service animal in the park. He emphasizes the importance of nuanced understanding and appreciates "Karens" who uphold high societal standards without crossing into being overly confrontational.

"I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society."

[14:51] John Law:
Further delving into the debate, John distinguishes between different types of "Karens," preferring those who speak their mind respectfully over confrontational individuals who may escalate situations unnecessarily.

"I like the Karen who sees something and says something. ... I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society."

2. Birthright Citizenship

Transitioning from the lighter debate, the hosts delve into the more serious and personal topic of birthright citizenship.

[13:00] John Law:
John introduces the topic by highlighting the complexities surrounding birthright citizenship, particularly in the context of recent political discussions spearheaded by figures like former President Trump. He raises concerns about the feasibility and moral implications of altering longstanding legal precedents.

[18:13] Isaac Saul:
Isaac shares his personal narrative as a second-generation American with immigrant parents from India and Pakistan. He reflects on his parents' efforts to assimilate into American society, emphasizing the challenges and aspirations that shaped his understanding of citizenship and national identity.

"I can't imagine what it would be like if at this point, or even, you know, when I'm like 12, 13 years old, having gone to American schools and learned the language and, you know, fit into this culture, what it would be like to have to go to a, you know, a country that I don't really feel connected to or know anything about."

[25:15] John Law:
John critiques the motivation behind attempts to end birthright citizenship, suggesting that the belief it incentivizes illegal immigration is unfounded. He argues that most immigrants come for reasons beyond circumventing citizenship laws, such as reuniting with family.

"I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all. I think people come here for other reasons because they have family already here."

[26:12] Ari Weitzman:
Ari clarifies the legal distinctions between jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of soil), explaining that the U.S. currently incorporates both principles in its citizenship laws. He cautions against conflating the two, noting that they address different aspects of citizenship acquisition.

"There are two different branches, just as a clarification of ways. One is jus sanguinis, which is the right of blood... The other is jus soli, which is the right of soil... it's not them both. It's like blood or soil."

[28:05] Isaac Saul:
Isaac reinforces the importance of maintaining clear and consistent definitions of what it means to be an American, grounded in legal precedents. He argues that altering birthright citizenship would redefine American identity and weaken existing legal structures.

"I don't think anybody comes here illegally and doesn't know that they're not doing that. ... if you're willing to do all that, you're kind of, in a sense, you're already swearing an oath to this country."

[29:37] John Law:
John concludes the discussion by addressing the ideological underpinnings of the birthright citizenship debate. He expresses skepticism about the notion that birthright citizenship is a significant factor in immigration patterns, suggesting that structural incentives are more complex and multifaceted.

"If you fundamentally believe that this is an incentive to come to the United States, then it's worth ending. ... I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all."

Conclusion

The episode adeptly balances casual commentary with profound political debate, providing listeners with both entertainment and thoughtful analysis. Isaac, Ari, and John navigate the nuances of the Karen phenomenon and the contentious issue of birthright citizenship, offering diverse perspectives rooted in personal experiences and legal understanding. The discussion underscores the complexity of defining national identity and the challenges inherent in balancing societal standards with inclusive citizenship policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Weitzman [07:52]:
  "It sort of annoys me to have dogs everywhere all the time. ... People just have their dogs come in, they'd shit on the floor or pee. ... People have had very bad experiences with dogs or are from cultures where dogs aren't seen as normal domesticated pets."

• John Law [10:20]:
  "I appreciate the Karens out there who are trying to hold people to a high standard of civil society."

• Isaac Saul [18:13]:
  "I can't imagine what it would be like if at this point, or even, you know, when I'm like 12, 13 years old, having gone to American schools and learned the language and, you know, fit into this culture, what it would be like to have to go to a, you know, a country that I don't really feel connected to or know anything about."

• John Law [29:37]:
  "If you fundamentally believe that this is an incentive to come to the United States, then it's worth ending. ... I don't buy that that's a real incentive at all."

This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and perspectives presented in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.