PREVIEW - Will Kaback talks with Claire Carlson about how farmers are impacted by the government shutdown and trade wars.

Summary

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Tangle Podcast Summary

Episode: PREVIEW – Will Kaback talks with Claire Carlson about how farmers are impacted by the government shutdown and trade wars
Date: November 15, 2025
Host: Will Kaback (Senior Editor, Tangle)
Guest: Claire Carlson (Reporter, Daily Yonder)
Duration: Preview (partial episode)

Episode Overview

This episode of Tangle dives into the critical issue of how U.S. farmers are being affected by both the recent federal government shutdown and ongoing trade wars. Host Will Kaback interviews Claire Carlson, an agriculture reporter for the Daily Yonder, drawing upon her latest article and interviews with farmers. Together, they discuss the real-world consequences of policy fights in Washington, including disruption of essential services farmers rely on and broad economic uncertainty in rural America.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Immediate Impact of the Government Shutdown

[02:08–05:04]

• Claire describes how the federal shutdown has “exacerbated some problems that farmers have already been facing,” especially in relation to tariffs and staffing shortages at the Department of Agriculture (USDA).
• She points out that over 2,000 USDA employees were laid off earlier in the year, and Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) offices, which provide critical contracts and grants to farmers, have been closed since October 1st.
• Seasonal Timing: The shutdown’s timing is particularly damaging because October-November is when farmers finalize last season’s work and plan for the next year, often involving contract fulfillment and application for new funding.

Notable Quote:
“Farmers, they kind of work by the season. So October and November is when they plan for the next year…they’ll often go to their NRCS offices and say, ‘Hey, this is the work I did…’ But they haven’t been able to do that because the government [is] shut down. So a lot of people just don’t really know what’s going on at the moment.”
— Claire Carlson, [05:04]

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What is the NRCS and Why Does it Matter?

[06:20–08:12]

• Will prompts Claire to explain the NRCS’s role: The NRCS funds conservation efforts like solar panel installation, wetland conservation, and soil health programs.
• Some programs incentivize ecological practices (like no-till farming) essential for long-term soil and ecosystem health.
• The NRCS pays farmers for keeping portions of their land as wetlands, which helps with ecosystem stability and prevents issues like soil erosion and dust storms.

Notable Quote:
“Implementing conservation efforts like no-till farming…prevents erosion. Erosion is really bad on farms because…that’s where you see dust storms occur. I mean, Chicago earlier this year had a horrible dust storm, and a lot of that was because of highly eroded farmland.”
— Claire Carlson, [07:27]

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Biden-Era Conservation Programs and Political Uncertainty

[08:12–08:53]

• Some conservation initiatives predate the Biden administration, but “a lot of it is Biden era funding, especially through the Inflation Reduction Act.”
• She notes recent efforts under the Trump administration to “reverse those Biden era programs,” particularly those that directly reference climate change.

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Farmers’ Real-World Experience: Frustration, Apoliticism, and Communication Gaps

[11:08–12:12]

• Will asks how farmers are interpreting the Trump administration's efforts to reverse some conservation programs.
• Claire notes most farmers she interviews want to keep politics out of it:
  • “It’s not about politics to them. It’s mainly just they want to be able to continue operating their business, and if there’s a program that can maybe help them run it a little more efficiently, they’ll do that.”
• Communication from the USDA has been poor, leaving many farmers in the dark amid layoffs and the shutdown:
  • “They have no idea what’s going on at USDA right now, and that’s difficult for them.”
    — Claire Carlson, [11:50]

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Financial Implications: Delays, Uncertainty, and Program Cuts

[12:12–13:18]

• Will asks whether government funding is simply delayed or potentially lost entirely.
• Claire clarifies: It’s both—some contracts have been frozen and could still be paid if the government reopens, but “a lot of the programs have just been cut over the past few months,” compounding uncertainty.

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Trade Wars and Tariffs: The Double Whammy

[13:18–15:26]

• Will shifts to the impact of tariffs and recent trade developments, referencing Claire's reporting on soybean farmers and U.S.-China relations.
• Claire details:
  • Tariffs have “removed the global marketplace” for U.S. produce, most acutely for soybean farmers who lost China as a key customer.
  • Recent U.S.-China agreements may restore this market, but in the interim, farmers have been forced to store their crops and wait for commodity prices to rise.
  • Tariffs were intended to encourage domestic purchases, but rising input costs (fertilizer, machinery, etc.) due to tariffs, combined with low commodity prices, have left farmers simultaneously with higher costs and lower profits:
    • “So that’s kind of the double whammy that’s happening right now with tariffs.”
      — Claire Carlson, [14:55]

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On-the-Ground Farmer Voices

[15:26–16:03]

• Claire references conversations with individual soybean farmers in South Dakota, planning to share more direct stories in the full episode.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On conservation and climate programs:
  “We’ve been seeing a lot of effort from the Trump administration to reverse those Biden era programs, especially within the Inflation Reduction Act, and a lot of conservation programs, especially ones that will name drop climate change…being targeted.”
  — Claire Carlson, [08:19]

• On government confusion:
  “There hasn’t been much communication with these staff layoffs and especially with the government shutdown…They have no idea what’s going on at USDA right now, and that’s difficult for them.”
  — Claire Carlson, [11:50]

• Summary of current situation:
  “It’s simultaneously more expensive to run their business, and they’re making less profit from it. So that’s kind of the double whammy that’s happening right now with tariffs.”
  — Claire Carlson, [14:55]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:08] – Will introduces Claire Carlson and frames the discussion around her recent reporting.
• [05:04] – Claire lays out the immediate effects of the shutdown on rural support offices and farmers’ seasonal planning.
• [06:36] – Claire explains conservation contracts and their significance.
• [08:12] – Will and Claire discuss how Biden-era funding and programs are under threat from the current administration.
• [11:08] – Will probes the communication and political dimension; Claire reports on farmers’ frustration and confusion.
• [13:18] – Conversation shifts to the macroeconomic effect of tariffs and the trade war.
• [15:45] – Claire references first-hand accounts from South Dakota soybean farmers.

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Episode Tone and Style

• The episode has a clear, informative, and empathetic tone, with both host and guest striving to give voice to often-overlooked rural perspectives.
• Claire’s responses fuse immediate reporting with accessible explanations of policy and practice, making complex subjects approachable.

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Summary

This episode preview provides an in-depth look at the intersection of federal shutdown politics, trade wars, and their tangible effects on American farmers. Essential services have been disrupted at a critical time in the agricultural calendar, compounding anxieties already heightened by unstable market conditions and administrative upheaval. Farmers, often trying to remain apolitical, are left in the crossfire—facing policy changes, poor communication from agencies, and a market squeeze from both sides. The episode promises further exploration of these personal narratives and broader ramifications in the full version.

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Transcript

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[Will Kaback]

From executive producer Isaac Saul.

[Claire Carlson]

This is Tangle Foreign.

[Will Kaback]

Hey everyone, this is Tangle Senior Editor Will K. Back and I'm excited to be here today to share an interview I conducted with Claire Carlson, who is a reporter for the Daily Yonder and someone who is closely following farm and agriculture related issues in the United States since today. I came across Claire's profile when I was doing some research for the Daily Tangle newsletter. I was looking at some under the radar stories related to the government shutdown and I came across this piece of hers that was titled Government Shutdown Trade Wars Hit Farmers, Bottom Line Hard. So I read the piece and it struck me for a few reasons. Number one, it had these really in depth and substantive quotes from farmers about how they were being impacted by the government shutdown. And it also reported more broadly about some of the issues farmers are facing that predate the shutdown. This isn't an issue that we've tackled in depth at Tangle before, and it felt like a great opportunity to shine a light on this obviously critical industry, but one that we don't think much about. And personally, I didn't have a great idea of the nearly existential moment that it seems like farmers are in based on Clear's reporting. So I reached out and asked her if she'd be interested in coming on the show to talk about what she's learned and some of the issues that she's been tracking both before, during and beyond the government shutdown. And it felt like an opportune time to have this conversation as the shutdown seemingly nears its end. We recorded this conversation on Tuesday, November 10th. So here is my conversation with Claire Carlson about farmers, agriculture, the government shutdown, tariffs, and more. If you like these kinds of conversations where we go a little bit deep on some issues that we aren't able to cover in depth in the newsletter, write in and let us know. We'd love to do more interviews like this in the future and also follow up on these stories as they develop down the line. All right, here is my interview with Claire. All right, Claire, thanks so much for joining us.

[Claire Carlson]

Thanks for having me.

[Will Kaback]

So we're recording. Here it is Tuesday, November 10th. And the big news in national politics today is that the Senate has reached a deal to seemingly end the government shutdown. There's still some votes that need to go through and that needs to go to the House and get approved, but it seems like we're tracking towards the shutdown ending this week around the 4,142 day mark. You recently published a piece that looked at the shutdown's impact on the nation's farmers and some of the ways in which the government not being operational, has exacerbated some existing issues and created some new ones. So to start, I wonder if just from a high level view, you could walk me through some of those key issues that the shutdown has caused farmers.

[Claire Carlson]

In the U.S. definitely, yeah. So the government shutdown, as you just said, it's really exacerbated some problems that farmers have already been facing. A lot of that's related to tariffs. There's also earlier this year, USDA, Department of Agriculture, they laid off about 2,000 employees. The national or the Natural Resources Conservation Service, which is kind of managed by usda, but a lot of farmers get contracts and Grants through that office, they have lost a lot of their employees. Those offices have been shut down since October 1st. And it's kind of interesting because farmers, they kind of work by the season. So October and November is when they plan for the next year. They're kind of finishing this season up. They'll often go to their NRCS offices and say, hey, this is the work I did. This is the work that was funded through a grant or a contract. And then they'll get paid for that work. But they haven't been able to do that because the government shut down. So a lot of people just don't really know what's going on at the moment. And that's pretty hard for farmers who really rely on those in person resources that are available at those offices.

[Will Kaback]

So for our listeners who aren't familiar, can you just walk through what is the NRSC and what is the nature of these contracts that they have with farmers? Is it that they're being paid for the entire year when they go in in October, or how does that dynamic work with the contracts they've set up?

[Claire Carlson]

Right. So a lot of these contracts, they, it's an application process. But nrcs, they actually, they fund a lot of conservation efforts on farms. So it'll be programs like, you know, getting, getting solar panels onto a farm. The Rural Energy for America program, that was the big one. Get solar panels and other kind of renewable energy initiatives onto farms. It would help farmers pay for that. There's also programs like wetland conservation. It helps farmers actually protect parts of the land that they have that's maybe adjacent to really important habitat that would be best kept, not farmland. It actually can pay them to keep that area wetland versus farmland. And that's pretty important in terms of just like ecosystem health, then also soil health. I mean, having, implementing conservation efforts like, like no till farming, which means that you're not tearing up the soil every year, you're actually letting it just sit. You're letting kind of the funguses and everything that's in there just grow and kind of keep the soil structure strong that prevents erosion. Erosion is really bad on farms because that's like, you know, that's where you see dust storms occur. I mean, Chicago earlier this year had a horrible dust storm and a lot of that was because of highly eroded farmland. So those are some of the programs that NRCS funds.

[Will Kaback]

And were these particular initiatives mostly like Biden Era programs or did they predate that?

[Claire Carlson]

Some of them predated it, but a lot of it is Biden era funding, especially through the Inflation Reduction act. And we've been seeing a lot of effort from the Trump administration to reverse those Biden era programs, especially within the Inflation Reduction act, and a lot of conservation programs, especially ones that will name drop climate change, for example. Those are the programs being targeted.

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[Will Kaback]

And when you talk to farmers, what do they say about the Trump administration's decision there? What is the communication that they've gotten from the administration explaining that rationale.

[Claire Carlson]

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, some folks, a lot of farmers I talk to really want to stay apolitical, really. Like, it's not about politics to them. It's mainly just they want to be able to continue operating their business, and if there's a program that can maybe help them run it a little more efficiently, they'll do that. So I've talked to farmers who are Republican, and they don't want to talk about the climate change part of any of this. They. They have also been kind of confused by some of the. The lack of communication that's come in, because there hasn't been much communication with these staff layoffs and especially with the government shutdown. It's. Yeah, I mean, the farmers I talked to, they were. They were just. They have no idea what's going on at USDA right now, and that's difficult for them.

[Will Kaback]

Yeah. So now that the shutdown seemingly is coming to an end, let's say that it ends this week, will that money that should have been available in October become available now? Is it more so that the farmers have had to wait for this money, or is it genuinely now imperiled whether they'll receive it at all?

[Claire Carlson]

It's kind of both. It really depends on the program. I mean, earlier this year, there was a lot of coverage of the programs where funds were just frozen. So there were contracts that farmers were given that were granted, but then they never got the payout for. So there's sort of a continuation of that with the government shutdown, but ideally with the offices reopening, that will allow farmers to kind of get back to, you know, planning for next year and talking to a USDA official. So on that front, things should be back to normal. But, yeah, a lot of. A lot of the programs have just been cut over the past few months. So we'll continue to see that. Yeah.

[Will Kaback]

That segues into some of the questions I have about some of the challenges farmers are facing outside of the shutdown and the unique aspects of the shutdown. I know you mentioned tariffs, and we've heard a lot about how tariffs are impacting the entire US Economy, but particularly farmers. I know in your article, you write a bit about soybean farmers and relationships with China and how that's been impacted. I know a little bit outside of tariffs, but we've also heard recently about the Trump administration buying Argentine beef and the way that that's potentially going to impact farmers in the U.S. so could you just talk a little bit about some of those challenges that farmers are facing right now outside of the shutdown related to tariffs, but also outside of that?

[Claire Carlson]

Yeah, soybeans are a really good example of what has happened. Basically the tariffs removed the marketplace or the kind of global marketplace a lot of these farmers sell on Soybean farmers. Losing China as a customer was a huge blow. And actually as of October 30, the US and China have come to an agreement where China will continue buying soybeans again. But for soybean farmers throughout the summer, it meant that they just weren't, they weren't selling their product. And a lot of like some of the ones I talked to, they were just storing them and waiting for that commodity price to increase again. But yeah, it's tariffs. They can be advantageous, honestly for farmers if it helps, you know, if it encourages customers to buy more locally or domestically. But right now what's happening is the input prices of things like fertilizer, pesticides, machinery like tractors or trucks that are shipped in from other countries, those are more expensive. And because farmers are also, they're commodity prices are lower, it's simultaneously more expensive to run their business and they're making less profit from it. So that's kind of the, the double whammy that's happening right now with tariffs.

[Will Kaback]

And again, I want to go back to just the conversations you're having with farmers, because I think that's something that can be obscured sometimes, is you hear a lot about what's the impact going to be on the macro level, the economic level, the GDP for the United States, the overall output. But what are you hearing from farmers you talk to when you talk to them about tariffs and the impact that it's having?

[Claire Carlson]

So the, the one of the soybean farmers I interviewed for this particular article, he's in South Dakota.

[John Law]

Hey everybody, this is John, executive producer for Tangle. We hope you enjoyed this preview of our latest episode. If you are not currently a newsletter subscriber or a premium podcast subscriber and you are enjoying this content and would like to finish it, you can go to readtangle.com and sign up for a newsletter subscription. Or you can sign up for a podcast subscription or a bundled subscription, which gets you both the podcast and the newsletter and unlocks the rest of this episode as well as ad free daily podcasts, more Friday editions, Sunday editions, bonus content, interviews, and so much more. Most importantly, we just want to say thank you so much for your support. We're working hard to bring you much more content and more offerings. So stay tuned for the rest of the crew. This is John Law signing off. Peace.

[Isaac Saul]

Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive Producer is John Lowell. Today's episode was edited and engineered by John Wall. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead Bailey, Saul Lindsey Knuth. Music for the podcast was produced by John Law. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our [e-mail].

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