Podcast Summary: Tangle - Episode on RFK Jr. Firing the Entire Vaccine Panel

Release Date: June 11, 2025
Host: Isaac Saul
Episode Title: RFK Jr. Fires Entire Vaccine Panel

Introduction

In this episode of Tangle, host Isaac Saul delves into the controversial decision by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.), the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), to dissolve the entire Independent Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This move has sparked significant debate across the political spectrum, impacting public health policies and vaccine accessibility in the United States.

Quick Hits: Current Political News

Time Stamp: [03:46]
Presented by: Will Kbach, Senior Editor

1. US-China Trade Deal: The United States and China have reached an agreement on a new trade plan. However, it awaits approval from President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping before implementation.

2. Guantanamo Bay Transfers: The Trump administration plans to transfer illegally present non-citizens in the US to the military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, potentially starting within the week.

3. USAID Staff Firings: Secretary of State Marco Rubio has ordered the termination of all remaining USAID staffers at U.S. embassies. The State Department will assume control of USAID's foreign assistance programs by Monday.

4. Federal Charges Against Rep. McIver: U.S. Attorney Alina Habba has announced federal charges against Representative Lamonica McIver, a Democrat from New Jersey, for allegedly obstructing Homeland Security agents during a protest outside a Newark immigration detention facility in May.

5. Austria School Shooting: A tragic incident in Austria where a former student killed 10 people and injured at least 12 others at a secondary school, marking the deadliest mass shooting in the country's recent history.

Main Story: RFK Jr.'s Dismantling of the ACIP

Time Stamp: [05:14]
Presented by: Isaac Saul & Will Kbach

Isaac Saul's Commentary:
“Fierce blowback tonight to HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr's decision to remove all members of the CDC's vaccine advisory committee.”
(05:14)
Isaac highlights the potential repercussions of this decision, emphasizing that if the ACIP ceases to recommend vaccines, insurance companies may halt coverage, severely limiting public access to vaccines.

In-Depth Analysis by Will Kbach:
“I think we're likely to see diseases that we've that many people have never seen before or even heard of.”
(05:33)
Will provides a comprehensive overview of RFK Jr.'s actions:

• Removal of ACIP Members: RFK Jr. has dismissed all 17 members of the ACIP, a panel instrumental in developing vaccine recommendations and immunization schedules for both adults and children in the US.
• Justification: Kennedy argues that the existing committee is entrenched in industry-aligned incentives, promoting a narrow pro-industry orthodoxy. He claims the new appointments will prioritize independent judgment and foster a culture of critical inquiry.
• Historical Context: This decision follows other reforms by the HHS, including the cancellation of a CDC vaccine meeting by the FDA in February, significant layoffs at the CDC and FDA in April, and updated COVID-19 booster recommendations in May.
• Public Health Concerns: Experts like Dr. Bruce Scott from the American Medical Association warn that this move could exacerbate the spread of vaccine-preventable diseases amidst rising measles outbreaks and declining child vaccination rates.
• Political Reactions: Republican Senator Bill Cassidy expresses concerns that the new ACIP members may lack expertise, potentially undermining vaccine recommendations.

Reactions from the Political Spectrum

Left-Leaning Perspectives: Time Stamp: [10:19]
Voiced by: Will Kbach

• Criticism of RFK Jr.: The left sharply condemns Kennedy's actions, labeling them as anti-vaccine and detrimental to public health.

• Washington Post Editorial Board:
  “RFK Jr's purge is about reducing access to vaccines.”
  The editorial board accuses Kennedy of targeting ACIP to control vaccine policies, arguing that ACIP's guidelines are critical for insurance coverage of vaccines and that undermining this panel threatens public health.

• MSNBC's Steve Bennon:
  “RFK Jr. is doing the opposite of what he told senators during his confirmation hearing.”
  Bennon highlights the contradiction between Kennedy's promises to maintain ACIP and his subsequent actions, emphasizing the move’s alignment with anti-science rhetoric.

• Stat's Richard Besser:
  “The move endangers every American.”
  Besser underscores the historical significance of ACIP in eradicating diseases like smallpox and criticizes Kennedy for dismantling a trusted public health pillar.

Right-Leaning Perspectives: Time Stamp: [10:19]
Voiced by: Will Kbach

• Praise for Reorganization:
  Some on the right applaud Kennedy for addressing perceived biases within ACIP, viewing the overhaul as a necessary step to restore trust in vaccine recommendations.

• PJ Media's Catherine Salgado:
  “A clean sweep is necessary to re-establish public confidence in vaccine science.”
  Salgado supports Kennedy’s initiative, arguing that the previous committee was manipulated by the Biden administration and biased towards industry interests.

• Reason's Liz Wolf:
  While acknowledging issues like the Rota Shield incident as a reason for Kennedy’s actions, Wolf cautions that dismantling ACIP might not entirely resolve underlying problems and could lead to inconsistent vaccine recommendations.

Isaac Saul's Take on the Situation

Time Stamp: [19:36]

Isaac provides his own analysis, referencing Caitlin Jettalina's newsletter from Your Local Epidemiologist:

• Impact on Vaccine Coverage: Kennedy's removal of ACIP members threatens to disrupt insurance coverage for vaccines, potentially leading to a decline in vaccination rates and increased vulnerability to preventable diseases.

• Critique of Kennedy's Actions: Isaac criticizes Kennedy for selectively presenting facts, such as misrepresenting ACIP’s history with vaccine recommendations and overstating conflicts of interest within the panel.

• Historical Inaccuracies: Isaac points out inaccuracies in Kennedy's claims, such as the false assertion that ACIP has never recommended against vaccines, citing instances where ACIP did retract or revise vaccine approvals.

• Consequences of the Move: Emphasizes that without qualified experts guiding vaccine policies, public health could deteriorate, leading to outbreaks of diseases like measles and undermining herd immunity.

Audience Questions: George Soros and Political Influence

Time Stamp: [28:17]
Question from Brian (Oakland, California):
"What's the deal with George Soros? As a person leaning to the left, I hear very little about him except as the target of right-leaning anger and what have I assumed to be conspiracies? From my perspective, Musk is doing the very thing that Soros is regularly accused of. Am I just in a bubble?"

Isaac's Response:

• Soros vs. Musk: While both are influential megadonors, Soros has been a Democratic megadonor for decades, akin to how Elon Musk has recently donated significantly to conservative causes.

• Political Contributions:

  • Soros: Largest individual donor in the 2022 midterms, preparing to back Democrats in Texas with substantial funds.
  • Musk: Donated hundreds of millions in 2024 to Republican candidates and super PACs.

• Unique Influence:

  • Open Society University Network: Soros’s global nonprofit, the Open Society University Network, has donated $32 billion, funding over two dozen colleges and various research projects worldwide.
  • Transparency Issues: Soros’s financial contributions often overlap with government spending channels like USAID, making his influence more pervasive and harder to track compared to other donors.

• Conclusion: While Soros is a significant and impactful megadonor like Musk, his global and multifaceted financial influence invites more scrutiny and suspicion.

Under the Radar: Global Economic Outlook

Time Stamp: [30:49]
Presented by: Will Kbach

• World Bank's Economic Forecast:
  The World Bank has reduced its global growth forecast for 2025 from 2.7% to 2.3%, indicating that the 2020s could experience the slowest economic growth since the 1960s.

• Affected Economies:
  Nearly 70% of economies, including 60% of developing nations, are projected to see reduced growth due to trade tensions and increased government borrowing.

• Expert Insight:
  “The world economy today is once more running into turbulence. Without a swift course correction, the harm to living standards could be deep,”
  — Inder McGill, World Bank's Chief Economist.

• Potential Mitigation:
  Emphasis on job creation could help improve the economic outlook amidst these challenges.

Key Statistics

Time Stamp: [Will Kbach's Segment]

• Establishment of ACIP: 1964

• Maximum Voting Members on ACIP: 19

• Trust in CDC for Reliable Vaccine Information: 59% of US adults (KFF, April 2025)

• Trust in RFK Jr. for Reliable Vaccine Information: 41% of US adults (KFF, April 2025)

• Trust Trends (September 2023 to April 2025):

  • Democrats' Trust in CDC: Decreased by 18%
  • Republicans' Trust in CDC: Increased by 11%

• Approval Ratings for RFK Jr. as Health Secretary (Pew Research, April-May 2025):

  • Approve: 36%
  • Disapprove: 43%

• Party-Specific Approval:

  • Republicans: 66% approve
  • Democrats: 9% approve

Closing Topic: Support Systems for Families

Time Stamp: [30:49]
Story by: Will Kbach

Haven:
Britt Riley founded Haven in Rhode Island to address the challenges faced by parents balancing career and family. With three locations, Haven offers gyms, fully licensed daycare facilities, and co-working spaces, providing a comprehensive support system for families to prioritize mental and physical health while maintaining community connections.

Quote by Britt Riley:
"I feel like it's critically important that every member of the family is supported, because if we want to show up for our children, we need to support everybody who takes care of them."

Conclusion

This episode of Tangle provides a thorough examination of RFK Jr.'s controversial decision to eliminate the CDC's ACIP, highlighting the multifaceted reactions from both the left and the right. Host Isaac Saul offers a critical perspective on the potential public health ramifications, while also addressing broader political and economic issues. The discussions underscore the delicate balance between public health policy, political influence, and the overarching impact on American society.

Note: For more insightful discussions and updates on political developments, subscribe to the Tangle newsletter here.