SNAP funding expires.

Summary

Tangle Podcast Summary — SNAP Funding Expires

Host: Isaac Saul
Date: November 3, 2025
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the lapse of Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) funding amid an ongoing government shutdown. The episode explores the political battle surrounding SNAP, arguments from the left and right, and the real-world consequences for millions relying on food assistance.

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Tangle examines the fallout from the expiration of SNAP benefits due to a protracted government shutdown. Host Isaac Saul and his team break down the latest developments, spotlight responses from across the political spectrum, and share Isaac’s personal take. The show highlights the stakes for food-insecure Americans, legal wrangling over funding, and the broader implications for U.S. governance.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Backdrop and Immediate Crisis

• [09:44] John Wall recaps events leading to the SNAP funding lapse, occurring as the shutdown enters its second month.
• [09:02] Scene in Houston: Reports of “hundreds of people at risk of losing their SNAP benefits lined up for food. The Houston Texans are partnering with the local food bank here, prepared to feed 5,000 families… just a fraction of the needs that exist nationwide… this is a man-made emergency.”
• SNAP at a Glance: Serves roughly 42 million Americans, including children, disabled people, seniors, and working low-income adults. Benefits are normally distributed via prepaid cards for groceries.

2. Legal & Administrative Standoff

• [09:44] SNAP funding has lapsed; two federal judges ordered the government to keep emergency operations for SNAP using contingency funds. The Trump administration argues it legally cannot reallocate certain funds except for sudden natural disasters.
• States’ Legal Challenge: 25 states sued the Trump administration to force disbursement, arguing health and welfare are at risk.
• [09:44] Judge John McConnell: "The balance of those equities clearly goes on the side of ensuring that people are fed."
• Political Blame Game: Each party accuses the other of holding SNAP recipients hostage for political leverage.

3. Arguments from the Left

• [14:28] The left frames the lapse as a result of Trump administration tactics, stressing the cruelty and illegality of denying food assistance.
  • David A. Super, MSNBC:

    “The White House is holding SNAP funding hostage. That’s cruel and illegal... Adequate nutrition is essential for health and for the ability to seek and perform work. Claims that transferring necessary funds to SNAP would endanger school meals or access to infant formula... are fear mongering at its worst.” (15:30)

  • Patricia Lopez, Bloomberg:

    “SNAP recipients have become helpless pawns on a board they don’t control... More than 1 million are veterans... They are 1 in 8 Americans who collect an average benefit of $187 a month for groceries... Apparently, 41 million people going hungry does not constitute an emergency.” (16:10)

  • Elizabeth Alston, New York Times:

    “$149.57 is going to have to feed my family indefinitely. My own remaining SNAP balance... was supposed to help carry my family until November 9th. Now it will have to stretch indefinitely.” (17:10)

  • The left also notes the “get a job” refrain misses the complexity of many recipients’ situations—like single parenting, unemployment due to illness, and systemic poverty.

4. Arguments from the Right

• [18:56] The right blames Democrats for exacerbating the shutdown, asserting that legal and fiscal constraints prevent the Trump administration from acting unilaterally.
  • Rep. Austin Scott, Daily Caller:

    “Congressional Democrats’ calculated refusal to do their job and reopen the government puts these vulnerable Americans at risk... The SNAP contingency fund is a limited reserve... It cannot replace regular funding for monthly SNAP benefits... By shutting down the government, Democrats have forced hundreds of thousands of federal workers into hardship.” (19:30)

  • Dan McLaughlin, National Review:

    “Democrats going to court to get SNAP benefits paid and Republicans fighting against paying them is not the best look... This seems not the best way to do it.” (20:30)

  • Tyler O’Neill, Daily Signal:

    “If this impasse continues... private charities and policy nonprofits [should] team up to replace the program with a privately funded alternative... SNAP ballooned during the COVID-19 pandemic... Americans don’t want 41 million people to go hungry, but we also don’t want 41 million people to become perpetually dependent on the federal government for food assistance.” (21:32)

5. Isaac Saul’s Take

• [22:58] Isaac evaluates both the legal and moral stakes, warning that both parties are making “the poorest and most vulnerable Americans... chess pieces.”
  • Isaac Saul:

    “The law stipulates that contingency funding for SNAP is to be used when regular funding runs out and the funds are available and ready to use. The idea that Trump can... find cash for the military during the shutdown, but can’t possibly fund SNAP without clear direction from a judge is self-evidently absurd.” (23:43)

  • Points out that SNAP is efficient (93% of funds go to households) and “touches every corner of society.”
  • Urges direct action:

    “Americans can keep the pressure on the President and Congress to sort this mess out while also stepping up in the places we call home to support the people who need it.” (28:45)

  • Lays bare the societal failure:

    “That we are now staring down a desperate inability to serve the needy amid the world historic wealth we have in the United States is an utter failure of society and governance.” (26:07)

  • Calls on listeners to volunteer or donate to local food banks:

    “Find them. Donate if you can, volunteer if you can, and raise awareness among your community. In a nation of doers, we don’t have to rely solely on our elected representatives to do the good work. Indeed, it’s evident that we can’t.” (28:07)

6. Staff Dissent

• [29:46] Ari Weitzman, Managing Editor:

  “I don’t think both sides are showing they’re genuinely interested in funding SNAP... Both parties are showing a genuine interest in doing enough to say they care while keeping the issue open to blame the other party.” (29:50)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Houston food pantry scene ([09:02]):
  “This is a crisis of our own making... You usually see scenes like this after a hurricane here in Houston. It looks like something out of COVID but this is a crisis of our own making.”
• Judge McConnell’s ruling ([09:44]):

  “The balance of those equities clearly goes on the side of ensuring that people are fed.”

• Elizabeth Alston ([17:10]):

  “$149.57 is going to have to feed my family indefinitely.”

• Isaac Saul ([26:07]):

  “That we are now staring down a desperate inability to serve the needy amid the world historic wealth we have in the United States is an utter failure of society and governance.”

• Ari Weitzman ([29:50]):

  “Both parties are showing a genuine interest in doing enough to say they care while keeping the issue open to blame the other party.”

---

Important Timestamps

• [09:02] — On-the-ground reporting from Houston’s food bank; scene setting.
• [09:44] — Overview of the lapse in SNAP funding, legal actions, and the government’s position.
• [14:28] — Arguments from the left: accusations of cruelty and legal violations.
• [18:56] — Arguments from the right: blaming Democrats and pushing for private alternatives.
• [22:58] — Isaac Saul’s personal take; moral and practical analysis.
• [29:46] — Staff dissent from Ari Weitzman.
• [34:32] — Listener question answered: Understanding the national debt.

---

In Summary

The episode underscores the immediacy of the SNAP lapse for millions, the legal tug-of-war between the courts and the administration, and political strategy overtaking practical compassion. Isaac Saul ultimately calls on listeners to take local action, highlighting SNAP’s efficiency and reach, and framing the crisis as a preventable societal failure. The unique multipartisan format ensures listeners hear credible arguments from all sides, with the episode closing on both a note of frustration with dysfunction in Congress and a call for grassroots support.

---

For Further Reading & Action:

• Updates and arguments from both sides are available at readtangle.com
• Consider local volunteering or donations to food banks to help those affected by the SNAP lapse.

Transcript

[Momentous Brand Representative]

A lot of supplement brands chase trends, but if you're serious about your health, we know research backed science is what actually moves the needle. Momentous works with the best brains in human science to create every formula and every batch is made of pure ingredients tested for safety and does not contain fillers so you get the best long term results possible. Creatine isn't just for muscle gains, it's essential daily fuel for your brain, body and long term performance. Momentous Creapure Creatine is backed by leading performance experts like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Stacey Sims. Sourced exclusively in Germany, Creature sets the gold standard for creatine, delivering the purest form creatine monohydrate that's rigorously washed and never cut with fillers. With over 2,000 five star reviews, over 112,000 customers have seen the results firsthand with Momentous. The fundamentals are done right. Right now Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first subscription order with promo code acast. Go to livemomentous.com and use promo code acast for up to 35% off your first Subscription order. That's livemomentous.com promo code acast.

[Podcast Host 1]

You know Hannah and I love a good bedrotting session, reality TV snacks nearby. And now I've leveled up with my self care game with this Shark Beauty Cryo Glow, the number one skincare facial device in the us.

[Podcast Host 2]

Wait, I'm obsessed with it. I've had it for a while actually and it's the only mask that combines high energy LEDs and infrared and under eye cooling. I really need this because nothing wakes me up in the morning. You could do four treatments in one. Better Aging Skin Clearing, Skin sustain and my favorite the under eye Revive with Insta Chill ColdTech. You put it on and it just feels so good under your eyes. Like I actually feel like I got eight hours of sleep.

[Podcast Host 1]

It's truly like a luxury spa moment. While you're literally horizontal. It's perfect for post workout Sunday scaries or when you just want to glow while rotting.

[Podcast Host 2]

So to treat yourself to the number one LED beauty mask this holiday season, go to sharkninja.com and use promo code Giggly Squad for 10% off your cryoglow. That's sharkninja.com and Use promo code gigglysquad for 10% off your cryo Glow.

[Maya or Sim (Girls that Invest Podcast)]

Hey, it's Maya and Sim from the Girls that Invest podcast. If you are an IT or security pro, you know managing devices, identities and applications can feel overwhelming and honestly risky. That's where Trelica by1Password comes in. It helps conquer SaaS, Brawl and Shadow it by every app your team uses, managed or not. With pre built app profiles, you can assess risk, manage access, and even optimize your software spend. Plus it simplifies onboarding, offboarding and compliance, all while cutting costs by eliminating unused licenses. Take the first step to better security for your team. Learn [e-mail] Specialoffer.

[John Wall]

From Executive Producer Isaac.

[Isaac Saul]

Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tango Podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul and on today's episode we're going to be talking about snap benefits expiring, breaking down the latest on the, I guess the fallout from the government funding shutdown fight, which is now getting pretty real. It is Monday, November 3rd. We're going to share some views from the left and the right on that story and then of course I'll offer my take. Before we jump in, I want to give you a quick heads up on a couple things. First of all, a couple weeks ago I published that piece, yes, Things are Really Bad Right now, highlighting concerns with the Trump administration's actions, and we initially made that piece available to paid subscribers only, but we dropped the paywall on the following Monday after the piece was picked up by several other news organizations. On Friday, associate editor Audrey Moorhead published a response to that piece, which was up on our website in our newsletter and also shared as a podcast here on our podcast feed. It too was paywalled upon release, but a few listeners and readers pointed out the kind of unfairness of leaving a counter argument gated behind a paywall. Which is a good point. So in the interest of balance, we've also dropped the paywall on Audrey's piece, which you can now read in full on our website readtangle.com and we're also going to publish a non gated version of the podcast that Audrey did reading down her piece. All right, with that I'm going to send over to John for today's main topic and I'll be back for my take.

[John Wall]

Thanks Isaac and welcome everybody. Hope you all had a wonderful weekend. I'm just going to jump into last week's question, which was what's something that you would like to experience again? For the first time, we only had one response, but it was so special it painted such a vivid picture that I wanted to read it to you here. This one comes from Jalen and it goes like this. Something I'd love to experience again Seeing a Rocket Launch in Person in the summer of 2014, I visited my husband, then boyfriend who was working an internship in Cape Canaveral, Florida. The first night that I was there, he took me to a little sandy area along the highway where a bunch of locals had pulled off and parked. There was an ice cream truck selling treats to families. Kids were eating watermelon in the beds of trucks. Radios echoed updates from the launch site. Everyone was buzzing with anticipation, praying that the launch wouldn't get scrubbed. Our eyes were locked in on the well lit rocket that towered over the pad just a few miles away. Just some sand and a large marshy area separated us from the powerful engines and sure enough, after all the checks, the countdown began. We saw the explosion of light first. The night sky erupted with brilliant brightness as the rocket ascended. It was angelic and after a few seconds we heard and felt the roar from the engines as it rippled across the water and slammed us in the chest. We stood in the sand stunned, watching the brilliance fade into small blinking light, feeling like it was disrespectful to move or speak until it was completely out of sight and in just a few moments it was over. People piled back in their cars and everyone returned to business as usual. I hope I never forget how incredible that experience was. I would relive it in a heartbeat and next time, hopefully our little son can experience it with us. Jaylen, thank you for that story. It painted such a bright and vivid picture in my mind. I have been telling it to friends and family just because I think it's such a beautiful moment. So again, thank you for sharing that with us. And now I've shared it with our audience, so I hope that's all right. But I'm just mesmerized by it. My question for you this week is what's a change that you've made, whether recently or fairly recently, that has improved your mental health? And if you haven't made a change, what is something that you've heard and would like to implement? Looking forward to hearing your answers. I think this is an important one that many people could get a lot of ideas and encouragement from. So if you have a moment and can take the time to write in, you can reach [e-mail] alright, with all that said, let's get into today's quick hits. First up, tens of thousands of people are believed to have been killed by paramilitary fighters from the Rapid support forces in western Sudan after the Sudanese military withdrew from the regional capital, Al Fasha. Survivors report that RSF fighters have opened fire on civilians and satellite images appear to show evidence of mass killings across the city. Number two President Donald Trump said that the US May cut off aid to Nigeria and consider military action if the government does not protect Christians in the country, claiming Christianity is facing an existential threat in Nigeria. 3 Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that the US military struck a boat allegedly trafficking drugs in the Caribbean Sea, killing three people on board. It is the 15th confirmed strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean or Pacific since September 2nd. Number four, Head Start programs, which offer free early childhood development programs and healthcare services for low income families, began closing down as their funding lapsed due to the ongoing government shutdown. At number five, manufacturing company Kimberly Clark agreed to buy Kenview, the maker of tylenol, for approximately $40 billion. The acquisition will create a global health and wellness company that includes major brands like Kleenex and Listerine.

[Houston Food Bank Representative]

Really an unbelievable scene here in Houston. Hundreds of people at risk of losing their SNAP benefits lined up for food. The Houston Texans are partnering with the local food bank here, prepared to feed 5,000 families. It's just a fraction of the needs that exist nationwide as the government shut down now enters its second month. Here in Texas alone, more than 3 million people rely on these food stamps. Half of them are children. The message from the Houston Food bank this is a man made emergency. You usually see scenes like this after a hurricane here in Houston. It looks like something out of COVID but this is a crisis of our own making. And as they urge Congress to act, right now, it's neighbors helping neighbors.

[John Wall]

On Saturday, the ongoing government shutdown caused federal funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or snap, to lapse. The funding gap will delay scheduled payments to many program beneficiaries who use the money to help cover food costs, putting the roughly 42 million people receiving benefits at risk of food insecurity. On Friday, two federal judges ruled that the government must keep the program at least partially operational using contingency funding and and gave the Trump administration until Monday to respond to the order. For context, SNAP distributes grocery assistance to families who qualify based on an individual's or household's gross monthly income. In fiscal year 2024, 12.3% of United States residents received SNAP benefits, or 41.7 million people on average each month. Benefits are disbursed through a prepaid card that can be used to purchase food items from a list of eligible products including meat, produce, grains, snacks and non alcoholic beverages. This July's One Big Beautiful Bill act added new eligibility restrictions for snap, including stricter work requirements for adults without dependents. Those new rules went into effect on Saturday, ahead of the November 1st funding lapse. The Trump administration said it would not use emergency funds to cover the shortfall. On October 24, the US Department of Agriculture, which oversees food assistance programs, issued a memo claiming that it could only use those funds for emergencies they that can come on quickly and without notice, such as hurricanes, tornadoes and floods. Furthermore, it advised that states should not expect to be reimbursed if they cover SNAP expenses during the shutdown. 25 states sued the Trump administration over its decision to allow SNAP payments to lapse, arguing the decision would cause deterioration of public health and well being. District Judge Indira Talwani found that the states were likely to succeed in their challenge, while District Judge John McConnell said he would order the administration to disperse the government's contingency funds to extend the benefits as soon as possible. It's clear that when compared to the millions of people that will go without funds for food versus the agency's desire not to use contingency funds in case there's a hurricane need, the balances of those equities clearly goes on the side of ensuring that people are fed, mcconnell wrote in a post on Friday. President Trump called the rulings conflicting, but said he had instructed our lawyers to ask the court to clarify how we can legally fund SNAP as soon as possible. On Saturday and Sunday, food pantries, religious organizations and other groups across the country gave away free meals and groceries to people impacted by SNAP funding lapse. SNAP recipients have expressed uncertainty about when and whether their benefit cards will be reloaded, though Judge McConnell said the Trump administration must begin to do so by Wednesday. Today we'll explore arguments from the left and right about SNAP benefits expiring and then Isaac's take.

[Isaac Saul]

We'll be right back after this quick break.

[Momentous Brand Representative]

A lot of supplement brands chase trends, but if you're serious about your health, we know research backed science is what actually moves the needle. Momentous works with the best brains in human science to create every formula and every batch is made of pure ingredients tested for safety and does not contain fillers so you get the best long term results possible. Creatine isn't just for muscle gains. It's essential daily fuel for your brain, body and long term performance. Momentous Creapure Creatine is backed by leading performance experts like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Stacey Sims, sourced exclusively in Germany, Creapure sets the gold standard for creatine, delivering the purest form creatine monohydrate that's rigorously washed and never cut with fillers. With over 2,000 five star reviews, over 112,000 customers have seen the results firsthand with Momentous. The fundamentals are done right. Right now, Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first subscription order with promo code Acast. Go to livemomentous.com and use promo code Acast for up to 35% off your first Subscription Order. That's livemomentous.com promo code Acast.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless, and if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should 1. It's $15 2. Seriously, it's $15 a month. 3. No big contracts.

[John Wall]

4.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

I use it.

[Momentous Brand Representative]

5.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

My mom uses it. Are you. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[Podcast Host 1]

Payment of $45 for three month plan.

[John Wall]

$15 per month equivalent required New customer offer first three months only, then full.

[Podcast Host 1]

Price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

[John Wall]

Alright, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left criticizes Trump for leveraging SNAP benefits in shutdown negotiations. Some say the most vulnerable will bear the brunt of expiring benefits. Others suggest SNAP recipients are being inaccurately portrayed in the funding fight. In msnbc, David A. Super argued the White House is holding SNAP funding hostage. That's cruel and illegal. SNAP owes much to political leaders of both parties. President Richard Nixon insisted that food assistance be available nationwide. Government Conservative Republicans have repeatedly partnered with liberal Democrats over decades to improve SNAP's efficiency, effectiveness and accountability, super said, since adequate nutrition is essential for health and for the ability to seek and perform work, Congress insisted that SNAP shall be furnished to all eligible households who make application. Inclusion of sufficient funds to serve all households in annual appropriations bills has never been controversial. Even if SNAP contingency funds were not available, Congress has given the USDA broad authority to transfer funds among food assistance programs, super wrote, as the child nutrition programs only spend about $3 billion per month. Transferring funds to SNAP for November benefits would still leave enough in the child nutrition account to support more than half a year of those program's operations. Claims that transferring necessary funds to SNAP would endanger school meals or access to infant formula through wic, or are fear mongering at its worst, wholly unsupported by the actual numbers in Bloomberg, Patricia Lopez said hungry Americans will pay the price for this shutdown. SNAP recipients have become helpless pawns on a board they don't control. Who are these 42 million people? They're single parents and people with disabilities. They're children. They are seniors who have outlived their savings. They are workers whose wages are so meager they still qualify for free food. More than 1 million are veterans. They are 1 in 8Americans who collect an average benefit of $187 a month for groceries, lopez wrote. The administration now asserts that contingency funds must be reserved for natural disasters and other emergencies. Apparently, 41 million people going hungry does not constitute an emergency. Trump has said repeatedly that he would use the shutdown to cut Democrat oriented programs. It may be that he thinks letting SNAP funding run out is a clever way of hurting Democratic supporters. But But Republicans also rely on snap. Rural areas, which tend to support Republicans, use SNAP at a higher rate than cities. Lopez said Republicans are irrational to refrain from negotiating with Democrats. But Trump does not want to negotiate here so much as bully his opponents into submission. And while he does that, millions of Americans are left to figure out where their next meal is coming from. In the New York Times, Elizabeth Alston wrote, $149.57 is going to have to feed my family indefinitely. Barring an end to the government shutdown, SNAP benefits will not be paid out in November, leaving tens of millions of recipients wondering how they're going to afford food next month. My own remaining SNAP balance, $149.57, was supposed to help carry my family until November 9th. Now it will have to stretch indefinitely, Austin said. In 2012, I was the mother of two children under 3 years old. That year, the father disappeared from our lives without warning, leaving me no way to feed them or myself to survive. I applied for SNAP at the end of 2023, after my daughter had survived a nearly three year fight with cancer. I lost my job. I applied for SNAP benefits again. Conversations around SNAP benefits are often fraught, dominated by the simplistic refrain that recipients should get a job. My experience illustrates why this response misses the mark. It took me time to find a job when I first needed snap, when I was raising two small children alone, austin wrote. But our government is making the tired get a job refrain into policy. The One Big Beautiful Bill act included an estimated $186 billion cut to SNAP benefits through 2034, which could drastically reduce or eliminate monthly benefits for millions. These expanded cuts now compounded by a government shutdown. Holding food assistance hostage was will devastate families. Alright, that is it for what the left is saying. Which brings us to what the right is saying. The right criticizes Democrats for exacerbating the shutdown and putting the SNAP program in jeopardy. Some contend the Trump administration would be unwise to oppose funding in court. Others suggest now is the time for a privately funded SNAP alternative. In the Daily Caller, Representative Austin Scott, the Republican from Georgia, criticized Democrats for using starving Americans as leverage. Congressional Democrats calculated refusal to do their job and reopen the government puts these vulnerable Americans at risk of losing access to food assistance through the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP in November. These aren't just statistics, they're our vulnerable population and hardworking families who depend on SNAP benefits to purge, purchase groceries and ensure their households don't go hungry, scott wrote. With Democrats continuing to hold the government hostage and use American families as leverage over their demand for taxpayer funded healthcare for illegal aliens, the US Department of Agriculture is now legally unable to distribute SNAP benefits for November. The SNAP contingency fund is a limited reserve that can only be deployed in response to natural disasters and other emergencies. It cannot replace regular funding for monthly SNAP benefits. Additionally, the contingency fund is not even large enough to cover a full month of SNAP benefits even if the funds were accessible, Scott said. By shutting down the government, Democrats have forced hundreds of thousands of federal workers into genuine financial hardship by depriving them of their paychecks while simultaneously blocking the very safety net programs specifically designed to assist workers during times of need. In National Review, Dan McLaughlin wrote about the two rulings on funding SNAP. The claim, accepted by Rhode Island Federal District Judge John McConnell and Massachusetts Federal District Judge Indira Talwani is that the executive branch has access to emergency funds and the two judges believe that Congress thinks that SNAP benefits are a greater emergency in spite of not funding them than are other things that are currently not funded, McLaughlin said. I get that if the Justice Department thinks that this is a nonsense legal argument, it is inclined to stand on principle. If so, more power to the doj. But it seems to me that this is not the best political strategy for the administration. The GOP posture toward a program such as snap, a longtime Democratic priority should be to visibly demonstrate that the administration is willing to fund it. But it is being thwarted by Democrats positioning things so that it is. Democrats going to court to get SNAP benefits paid and Republicans fighting against paying them is not the best look, McLaughlin wrote. If Republicans want to make Democrats own the shutdown and to put more public pressure on them to come to the table. This seems not the best way to do it. In the Daily Signal, Tyler o' Neill offered a modest proposal for snap. If this impasse continues, I'd humbly suggest that private charities and policy nonprofits team up to replace the program with a privately funded alternative that also helps recipients go from dependency to self sufficiency. Private charities are already starting this process, but conservatives should band together to transform a private effort into a policy shifting initiative, o' neill wrote. The food stamps program has long fostered dependence on government programs. The program ballooned during the COVID 19 pandemic, rising as labor force participation declined. SNAP serves 4.3 million more people than it did before the pandemic. Congress can and should amend the program, strengthening work requirements and tightening eligibility to make sure that the truly needy receive the program and to incentivize self sufficiency, o' Neill said. Yet if private charities and policy nonprofits team up to meet the unmet needs during this government shutdown, they may find an unprecedented opportunity to replace a bloated federal dependency program with a smart, privately funded roadmap to self sufficiency. Americans don't want 41 million people to go hungry, but we also don't want 41 million people to become perpetually dependent on the federal government for food assistance. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take.

[Isaac Saul]

Alright, that is it for the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take. First, most Republicans and Democrats seem to genuinely want to keep SNAP payments flowing. The Trump administration is asking for clearer direction from the courts on how to proceed, while trying to pressure Democrats to fold on their affordable Affordable Care act funding fight. And Democrats seem to be hoping that any pause or delay in SNAP payments forces Republicans back to the negotiating table, sparking a quick resolution. Either way, both sides clearly recognize the moral and political risks here, which is a good start. Second, I'm not entirely sure withholding SNAP funding is actually legal. Writers like David super under what the left is saying, have made this case pretty clearly, arguing that the Trump administration is essentially denying its own authority to dispute disperse the funds while waiting for clarity from the courts. I think super is right. The law stipulates that contingency funding for SNAP is to be used when regular funding runs out and the funds are available and ready to use. The idea that Trump can impose tariffs on nearly every country in the world refused to spend congressionally authorized funding and fine cash for the military during the shutdown, but can't possibly find A way to fund SNAP without clear direction from a judge is self evidently absurd. Third, and perhaps most importantly, we may finally have a defining issue for this shutdown. A few weeks ago, I noted that one of the things that made this shutdown peculiar was that both sides didn't even agree on what issues they were trying to solve. Democrats have tried to make it about expiring Obamacare subsidies, but Republicans have so far waved that issue away. Republicans have tried to get Democrats to fold by threatening federal job cuts, but Democrats haven't taken the bait and now SNAP will be the issue. It's awful, obviously that the poorest and most vulnerable Americans are being used as chess pieces, but a real off ramp absolutely requires. An issue like this that both sides find unacceptable will create a public outcry and will force everyone back to the table. And the louder the public outcry, the more pressure for a resolution. All of that might be considered good news if you want to see SNAP funding continue or a resolution to the shutdown comes. The bad news, though, is basically everything else. Regardless of what you think the role of the federal government should be, that we are now staring down a desperate inability to serve the needy amid the world historic wealth we have in the United States is an utter failure of society and governance. Some food pantries are already experiencing huge lines. Philanthropic leaders say it won't be long before they can't meet the needs of the hungry. And in the meantime, our actual representatives, members of Congress whose job it is to solve this stuff, are sitting at home. The House is not met for legislative business in over six weeks, and the Senate is closed. I've also noticed that the commentary has suddenly shift to ways we might reform snap. Some commentators above have even started proposing ideas for changing the program, either by tightening eligibility further or aiming to cull the number of people receiving benefits. Of course, snap, like any government program, isn't perfect. But what are we actually doing here? This shutdown is not about reforming snap. There's no debate in Congress about reforming snap. Trump and Republicans already passed a bill that changed the program's eligibility. If people want SNAP reformed, great. Congress should get back to work and do that. It's also not something I'd view as a top priority. SNAP is a pretty incredible program. It is ballooned, yes, and of course we want fewer people on it. In a perfect world, the program wouldn't need to exist at all. But as long as people in our country live in poverty, we'll need programs to help them. Snap costs $100 billion a year for context, Veteran affairs medical care cost the federal government about $116 billion. Put differently, SNAP accounts for roughly one and a half cents of every federal dollar spent, with benefits coming out to about $6 per person per day. If you asked me what percentage of my tax dollars I would want to go to keeping people from going hungry, I'd probably give you a number higher than 1.5%. A government program this large will always come with some fraud, but most people who use these benefits truly do need it. For the 41 million people living on Snap, it's a difficult and frugal existence. The program is also efficient. 93% of its funds go to households, with the rest going to support admin and employment. And in the world of philanthropies, that's really good. SNAP also reaches nearly every corner of society. It benefits both working class families and retirees, single parents and the disabled, military, veterans and children, and in red and blue states. These people deserve our sympathy and aid, especially at such an efficient cost. So now what? First and foremost, Trump should follow the law. He should act swiftly to shore up the funding lapse and keep dollars flowing to a program that helps the poorest American. It's not like he's been shy about flexing executive authority so far, and acting decisively here would be more legally supported than doing nothing. Second, Democrats and Republicans need to recognize that this standoff is now inflicting real pain on tens of millions of Americans. SNAP benefits are in danger, travel is a nightmare, and the government's functionality is slowly but considerably degrading. Congress needs to show up in Washington, D.C. to talk to each other and get through the impasse they need to do their jobs. Finally, we the people actually need to step up. I rarely do this kind of thing in tangle, but I struggle to imagine a better opportunity to put out a call to action. Remember, this program touches every kind of person you can imagine, from every political background, in every state of every class, race and creed. SNAP has to exist because it's hard to get people to consistently support private solutions with any kind of reliability. If private and nonprofit efforts were enough, we wouldn't need the government. Right now, though, Americans can fill the gap. My son's daycare is collecting donations to support local programs helping people whose benefits may lapse. I can almost guarantee there are food pantries in your area who need help. Find them. Donate if you can, volunteer if you can, and raise awareness among your community. In a nation of doers, we don't have to rely solely on our elected representatives to do the good work. Indeed, it's evident that we can't. Americans can keep the pressure on the President and Congress to sort this mess out while also stepping up in the places we call home to support the people who need it. All right, that is it for my take. Our managing editor Ari Weitzman has a dissent, so I'm going to send it over to him and I'll be back for your questions answered.

[Ari Weitzman]

This is Tangle's Managing editor Ari Weitzman with the staff Dissent for today and disagree with Isaac on something specific and narrow, which is that I don't think both sides are showing they're genuinely interested in funding snap, at least not enough to vacate their high ground. If Republicans really cared about it, they wouldn't need a court to tell them to do it. And if Democrats really cared about it, they'd have loosened some of their leverage on ACA benefits to come to the table. Instead, both parties are showing a genuine interest in doing enough to say they care while keeping the issue open to blame the other party. All right, I'm going to send it back to AJAD for the rest of the pod.

[Isaac Saul]

We'll be right back after this quick break.

[Momentous Brand Representative]

A lot of supplement brands chase trends, but if you're serious about your health, we know research backed science is what actually moves the needle. Momentous works with the best brains in human science to create every formula and every batch is made of pure ingredients tested for safety and does not contain fillers so you get the best long term results possible. Creatine isn't just for muscle gains, it's essential daily fuel for your brain, body and long term performance. Momentous Creapure Creatine is backed by leading performance experts like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Stacy Sims. Sourced exclusively in Germany, Creapure sets the gold standard for creatine, delivering the purest form creatine monohydrate that's rigorously washed and never cut with fillers. With over 2,000 five star reviews, over 112,000 customers have seen the results firsthand with Momentous. The fundamentals are done right. Right now Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first subscription order with promo code Acast. Go to livemomentous.com and use promo code Acast for up to 35% off your first Subscription Order. That's livemomentous.com promo code Acast.

[John Wall]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Isaac Saul]

All right, thank you, Ari. That brings us to your questions answered. This one's from Judy in Greentown, Indiana. Judy said, explain the national debt. Who do we owe? How can we pay it off, and how serious are the consequences? Okay, so in simple terms, the national debt is the sum of the deficits the federal government accrues year over year with interest and deferments. It's actually a little bit more complicated than that. But that basic story effectively describes how the debt is accrued and who holds it. When the federal government needs more cash to pay its obligations, it borrows more to do so. The primary way to do this is through auctioning government bonds. The government sells promissory notes to investors who consider the United States government to be a safe bet to pay back its loans. Many different kinds of investors find that attractive. Approximately 24% of our debt is held internationally. 17% is held by private investors, 13% is kept by the Federal Reserve itself, and another 5% is held by financial institutions. However, another 20% of the debt the US has is held by other parts of the government. Perhaps most notably, the treasury often borrows from the Social Security trust fund and has never failed to pay it back. Then another 5% are held by local or state governments. Accordingly, the only way to actually pay the debt off is to have adequate revenue each year with which to pay the debt down, that is not run a deficit. That may be a bit more difficult than it sounds. The United States government has run deficits over $1 trillion for several consecutive years. And since the national debt now stands at over $38 trillion, servicing the debt is now the federal government's third largest expenditure, behind Social Security and healthcare. If the government were to default, even temporarily on any of its debts, the implications would be enormous. In all likelihood, interest rates would spike, the government's credit rating would tank, the dollar would be devalued, the stock market would plunge, and general turmoil would ensue. And in such a scenario, the government would prioritize paying back its own departments and other governments. Some of the last people to be paid would be citizens who are owed a tax refund. So, all in all, the people who would feel the consequences of the government not paying its debt back most acutely would be regular Americans. All right, that is it for your questions answered. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the pod and I'll see you guys tomorrow.

[John Wall]

Have a good one.

[Isaac Saul]

Peace.

[John Wall]

Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under the radar story for today folks. According to new data from the Gallup National Health and Wellbeing Index, the adult obesity rate in the United States declined from a high of 39.9% in 2022 to 37% in 2025. The adult obesity rate rose steadily between 2008 and 2022, but has now declined for the past three years. The decline has coincided with an increase of the use of GLP1 drugs such as Ozempic and WeGovy. In Q1 2024, 5.8% of US adults reported taking an injection for weight loss, while 12.4% reported doing so in Q2 and Q3 of 2024. Gallup also found that the increased use of GLP1 drugs aligned with lower obesity rates across sex and age groups. Gallup has the findings and you can check that out with a link in today's episode Description all right, next up is our numbers section. The percentage of USDA total food assistance spending in fiscal year 2024 that went to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program is 70.2%. The percentage of SNAP recipients between the age of 18 and 59 is 42%. The percentage of SNAP recipients below the age of 18 is 39%. 21.2% of New Mexico residents received SNAP benefits in fiscal year 2024, the highest percentage of any state. 4.8% of Utah residents received SNAP benefits in fiscal year 2024, the lowest of any state. Federal spending on SNAP in fiscal year 2024 was $99.8 billion. Federal spending on SNAP in fiscal year 2021 was $128.2 billion, the most of any year in the 21st century. And federal spending on SNAP in fiscal year 2000 was $28.5 billion. And last but not least, our have a nice day story. Since moving from China to Moncton in New Brunswick, Canada, 14 year old Cheng Endu and his family have found their neighbors helpless to pay that kindness back. Du and his mom, Geng Chen, have started picking up trash around the neighborhood. The duo has now organized eight community pickups and they plan to do more. The power of individuals is small, but if we can plant the seeds of public welfare in others hearts, we may grow a true green forest in the future, chen said. The CBC has this story and there's a link in today's episode Description.

[Momentous Brand Representative]

All.

[John Wall]

Right everybody, that is it for today's episode as always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to retangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership or a bundle membership that gets you a discount on both. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Wall signing off. Have a great day, y'.

[Momentous Brand Representative]

All.

[John Wall]

Peace.

[Isaac Saul]

Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our Executive producer is John Lowell. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will K. Back and Associate Editors Hunter Casperson, Audrey Moorhead Bailey Saw, Lindsay Knuth and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our [e-mail].

[Babbel Advertiser]

Par Le Tu francais hablas espanol?

[John Wall]

Parl italiano?

[Babbel Advertiser]

If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Why Choose a sleep number Smart bed.

[John Wall]

Can I make my site softer? Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and let you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night and now max out your savings. The more you buy, the more you save on beds, bases and more. Plus, get free home delivery on any smart bed with base limited time. Check it out at a Sleep Number store near you [e-mail] today Jennifer Lawrence.

[Podcast Host 1]

And Robert Pattinson star in Die My Love, a ferocious portrait of a woman engulfed by love and madness. Lawrence and Pattinson play a passionate couple who, after moving to an isolated house in the country, find their relationship unraveling following the birth of their first child. Vanity Fair hails Lawrence's performance as astonishing and Time calls it the kind of performance you go to the movies for. From director Lynn Ramsey, Die My Love is Only in theaters November 7th. Rated R.