Tangle Podcast – SPECIAL EDITION

Interview with a Witness of Charlie Kirk Shooting
Host: Will Kbach (Senior Editor), Tangle
Guest: “Haley,” high school sophomore and eyewitness
Date: September 14, 2025

Overview

This special edition of Tangle features an extended interview with “Haley,” a 16-year-old high school sophomore and eyewitness to the shooting and death of conservative activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University (UVU) on September 10, 2025. In a candid, emotional conversation, Haley recounts the events from the perspective of someone present, the shock and trauma of the experience, and her reflections on political violence and its impact. The episode also explores the broader implications of such events on young people and communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: Why Haley Attended the Event

• Haley is not a UVU student but attended out of curiosity and some admiration for Charlie Kirk, having watched his videos.
  • “I'm not actually a student at UVU. I'm 16. So I came to the campus… with a group of friends to see the debate.” (05:23)
  • She describes Kirk as a “very modern talker” whose priority is “discussion with others.” (05:45)
  • Haley generally “agrees” with most of Kirk’s views, but not all. (06:20)

2. Atmosphere Leading Up to the Shooting

• The event was her first political gathering; she noticed intense emotions from the crowd, which she describes as feeling almost like a “mob.”
  • “The first thing I noticed was that there was a very tense feeling in the air… people from all over, just different spectrums of beliefs there.” (07:19)
  • Protest chants: “Before we arrived, apparently there was… a group just screaming, ‘fuck, fuck, fuck, Charlie... fuck your beliefs and whatever else.’” (07:49)

3. The Shooting: Eyewitness Recollection

• Haley was with friends, trying to get a better view. Just before the shooting, she took a selfie.
• Kirk was ironically addressing “mass shootings” when the shot was fired.
  • “I was trying to peek around someone’s shoulder to get a better look at him… and then I heard a gunshot. And it was almost like the world froze for a minute because no one said anything, no one moved.” (08:36)
  • She describes confusion, some thinking it was fireworks; then a chilling realization: “Once I realized… the terror kind of settled in that, oh, we're under shooting. Someone just fired a bullet, right?” (09:40)
• Details of panic:
  • “Someone screams, get down. I crawl to the floor. I have to drag my friend down… and I make eye contact with an older woman… she was crying and I was like, this is real. I'm going to die here, exposed and afraid.” (09:53)
  • After someone yelled "run," she and her friends scattered. One friend had directly witnessed Kirk being shot: “...he kept saying, ‘Charlie's dead, Charlie's dead, he's dead, he's dead, Charlie's dead.’” (10:55)
  • The group debated whether to seek shelter or run, eventually escaping through building tunnels to their car parked off campus—a move she calls a "blessing" because it let them avoid chaos in the main parking lots. (12:30)
• Immediate aftermath:
  • Haley called her mother, barely able to communicate: “I was telling her, like, there’s a shooter but I’m alive, I’m alive, we’re okay.” (13:55)
  • At home, she realized, “I'm never going to be able to wash off or scrub off or like sleep off that feeling of terror that overtook me and thousands of other people…” (15:15)

4. Processing Trauma & Group Debrief

• Haley and her friends gathered to process what happened:
  • “All day yesterday, right after the shooting happened, we met up at one of my friend's houses and we just talked about it.” (19:00)
  • Her friend kept repeating “Charlie’s dead.” (19:19)
  • They watched the news/video footage together, still confused and seeking information. (19:30)
  • Frustration at others’ reactions: Haley describes anger at people both celebrating Kirk’s death and “flexing” that they were almost at the event. “No one who was there and who experienced it relished the idea they had to experience it.” (20:18)
  • Panic reactions persist: Haley recounts swerving while driving later, triggered by friends’ screaming: “I'm still there, right. Mentally, I'm still in that place of fear. So...it just kind of reminded me a little bit that I wasn't safe and I would never feel safe, really, for a long while.” (22:42)

5. Family’s Support & Haley’s Emotional State

• Her mother and father tried to comfort her after the event. (23:20)
• She struggled to sleep: “I don’t think I slept until about 4 a.m. I tried writing down details… but by the time I got to the beginning of the shooting, I physically couldn’t put the pen to the paper.” (24:38)
• Haley observes the disconnect the next day as the world continues as normal despite her trauma: “It’s a bit frustrating, honestly, to see… so many people around acting so normal and doing things… when I thought I was going to die yesterday.” (25:45)

6. School, Social Media, and the Broader Reaction

• There’s a strong, visible split among her peers on how to react, some celebrating Kirk’s death, others talking about avenging it.
  • “There’s a very defined line between who thinks the death should be celebrated and who thinks the death should be avenged. And… people fighting out their different ideas of what it should be and what should happen next.” (26:35)
• Fear and anxiety remain heightened, especially knowing the shooter was still at large. (27:26)

7. Political Discourse Among Teenagers

• Political discussion is common among her friends and within her debate team: “We all have varying views.” (29:18)

8. Reflecting on Political Violence

• On violence in politics:
  • “I don’t think I’ve ever thought an assassination was justified… I honestly think political violence is very abundant on both sides of the spectrum. And I think it’s never really justified… regardless of what people believe… they have a right to life.” (30:07 – 31:18)
• The perspective of the “crowd” turned “animal-like” out of self-preservation:
  • “What struck me was… how quickly humans can turn almost animal… people were running over each other and pushing each other and trying to fend for themselves without really having a thought of what was happening around them.” (31:44)

9. A Message to Listeners and Society

• On how society processes (or fails to process) trauma:
  • “We tend to push a lot of things down… There’s a lot of things that aren’t talked about openly… I think we should be able to learn how to experience it with others.” (32:31)
• Final plea:
  • “We need to change as a world… I think it’s important that we realize that how we’re dealing with things right now isn’t okay… We are capable of change and nothing’s going to change… unless we make it.” (34:41–34:53)
  • “Regardless of whether you were in or out of the event… take action and speak on what your belief is…” (34:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It was almost like the world froze for a minute because no one said anything, no one moved. And I think really what was going through everyone’s mind was that a gun?”
  — Haley (08:36)

• “I looked to my right and I make eye contact with an older woman… she was crying and I was like, this is real. I'm going to die here, exposed and afraid.”
  — Haley (10:09)

• “I’m never going to be able to wash off or scrub off or like sleep off that feeling of terror…”
  — Haley (15:09)

• “You would think that this is the kind of thing that happens to other people or in other countries… The idea of America is that people are protected by what they say. The civilians shouldn’t have to fear for their lives ever.”
  — Haley (20:45)

• “Mentally, I’m still in that place of fear. So… it just kind of reminded me a little bit that I wasn’t safe and I would never feel safe, really, for a long while.”
  — Haley (22:42)

• “I think definitely before I thought political violence was a problem… I don’t think I’ve ever thought an assassination was justified… political violence is very abundant on both sides… it’s never really justified because… in the end they have a right to life.”
  — Haley (30:07–31:18)

• “What struck me was… how quickly humans can turn almost animal… people were running over each other and pushing each other and trying to fend for themselves...”
  — Haley (31:44)

• “We need to change as a world... We are capable of change and nothing’s going to change in this world unless we make it.”
  — Haley (34:41-34:53)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 5:23: Haley introduces herself and her reason for attending
• 7:19: Describing the event atmosphere prior to the shooting
• 8:36–10:09: The moment the shot was fired and crowd’s initial reaction
• 10:55: “Charlie’s dead”—panic and chaos as the crowd flees
• 13:55: Immediate aftermath and escape, calling her mother
• 15:09: Reflection on trauma’s lasting effects
• 19:00: Friends debrief, emotional reactions and consumption of news
• 20:45: Anger at social media responses and the disconnect of “almost” witnesses
• 22:42: Panic persisting in unrelated settings (driving incident)
• 24:38: Sleep problems and the surreal quality of resuming normal life
• 26:35: School and peer conversations, polarization on social media
• 30:07–31:18: Haley’s reflections on political violence and its justification
• 31:44–34:53: Animal panic response, society’s emotional suppression, and the call for change

Closing Reflections

This emotional, unfiltered interview offers critical insight into the personal toll of political violence, the lasting psychological aftereffects for young people, and the urgent need for empathy and societal change. Haley’s narrative is both raw and reflective, providing a vital human perspective often missing from news coverage.