Podcast Summary: Tangle – "Suspension of the Rules"

Host: Isaac Saul
Guests: Camille (Kmele) Foster, Ari Weitzman
Date: November 7, 2025
Focus: A deep dive into the results and implications of the 2025 elections, the future of anti-wokeness, economic issues like affordability and tariffs, and the ongoing debate about partisan redistricting.

EPISODE OVERVIEW

The episode analyzes the 2025 election results across major states, explores shifting political strategies on both sides, and debates the death of "anti-wokeness" as a motivating force in U.S. politics. Lively discussions cover New York's mayoral race, moderates versus progressives in the Democratic Party, the political arms race over gerrymandering, the persistence of economic anxiety, and evolving culture war topics. The conversation features sharp disagreements, honest admissions of changed minds, and the kind of bipartisan banter that defines the Tangle podcast.

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. The New York Mayoral Election and Zoram Mamdani

• Initial Reactions: Isaac frames New York as a microcosm of national drama, mocked the right’s “hysteria” over Mamdani’s win (03:39).

  • Quote: “I’m sort of mocking and making fun of the right's reaction... it's just been so over the top and hysterical...” — Isaac Saul [05:54]

• On Mamdani’s Prospects:

  • Isaac predicts ambitious socialist policies “probably not getting done,” but worries about potential for economic drag if attempted (04:48).
  • Camille reports left-leaning but moderate New Yorkers see Mamdani as a pragmatic leader who might already be moderating (06:49).
  • The group questions if Mamdani’s playbook could work outside NYC, with skepticism over his electability in states like VA and NJ.

• Progressives vs. Moderates:

  • Ari suggests the takeaway is more about running quality, authentic candidates suited to their constituencies than about any clear ideological mandate (11:08).
  • Quote: “Run a quality candidate. Run somebody who's going to be good at actually expressing their message... Not a wet bag politician…” — Ari Weitzman [11:41]

• Cuomo as the Flawed Centrist:

  • Isaac admits: “I don’t think I could have punched a ballot for Andrew Cuomo... He’s just a scumbag.” [13:09]
  • The group discusses the reality that many voters, uninspired by the choices, may have stayed home or sought something new.

2. Implications for the 2025 Elections & Party Strategies

• Moderates Still Winning Elsewhere:

  • Camille and Ari stress the importance of context—what works in New York might flop in Virginia or New Jersey due to different cultural and policy histories (18:13, 20:49).
  • New Jersey’s high property taxes discussed as a death knell for any candidate promising even slightly higher taxes.

• AFFORDABILITY as the True Issue:

  • Repeatedly, the panel returns to affordability as the real engine of electoral motivation, eclipsing even culture war issues.
  • Quote: “It keeps coming back to the old saying, it's going to continue to be the economy, comma, stupid.” — Ari Weitzman [24:28]

• Why Trump’s Not Gaining Ground:

  • Isaac: “It doesn't seem like Trump has eased anybody's concerns about the economy or anything else at this point, which I think is a really dangerous spot for them to be in.” [24:38]

3. Tariffs and Economic Policy Under Trump

• Is the Tariff Strategy Working?
  • Ari lays out the administration’s narrative: tariffs are both economic policy and bargaining tool, though efficacy is unproven (32:30, 37:30).
  • Camille expresses philosophical and practical skepticism: “They haven't even made the case in a way that is uniform and consistent...When the courts weigh in...the federal government is not doing a great job presenting their case...” [35:52, 36:18]
  • Isaac confirms the government is on track to collect about $400 billion a year in tariff revenue but questions who ultimately bears the burden—American consumers and companies, or foreign governments? [39:57-40:30]

4. The “Death” of Anti-Wokeness

• Shifting Cultural Terrain:

  • Isaac proposes the anti-woke backlash has lost potency—many Americans now shrug off cultural policing, and economic concerns are dominant (44:48).
  • Example: Bucks County’s school boards flip back to Democrats after high-profile anti-woke campaigns wore thin.
  • Quote: “I think the anti wokeness stuff might be dead...people are kind of like, okay, like you've been banging on about like the trans people for three years now, just like, I'm kind of done with it…” — Isaac Saul [44:48]

• Panel’s Reaction:

  • Camille warns it's context-dependent and could still matter in certain contests, but agrees it's “insufficient” as a strategy (45:53).
  • Ari: “Maybe the thing that everyone just doesn't want to do anymore is grievances… The tactic of...‘you used the wrong word here’...that tactic's probably not going to work anymore.” [52:17]
  • Camille: “A shift away from grievance politics...woke right...is something that is very active...that entire project gives me a headache, an actual literal headache.” [53:24]

5. The Gerrymandering Debate: California’s Prop 50

• The Dilemma:

  • Ari’s case: Dems “lose the moral high ground” if they gerrymander—even for tactical reasons—rather than champion fair reforms [56:22].

  • Quote: “If you want to stop gerrymandering, you stop gerrymandering.” — Ari Weitzman [57:49]

  • Isaac’s counter: The stakes (“a 15-seat [House] swing could actually undo all the gridlock”) justify matching Republicans’ power moves [61:02].

  • Quote: “If that is the place that we're headed, I'd rather the scales be kind of tilted evenly...than to have one side have a clear upper hand.” — Isaac Saul [61:02]

• Resolution: No consensus—but a realistic “arms race” scenario is forecast, with the hope that eventual bipartisan exhaustion will force national reform before 2030 census.

NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• On Voting for Cuomo
  • “I definitely wouldn't have voted for him, and I definitely wouldn't have voted for Curtis Sliwa because he's a joke.” — Isaac Saul [13:09]
• Describing NYC Exodus Post-Election
  • “Impossible to get a U-Haul because everyone is leaving. The billionaires, they need more than one because they have to get all their shit out of the city…” — Camille [03:18]
• On Politics of Identity & Pronunciation
  • “Creative pronunciations are my liberty and my license...I just found the whole discourse around pronunciation of names deeply frustrating…” — Camille [49:52]
  • “Maybe it's wokeism has sort of became eaten by anti wokeism and now maybe the thing that everyone just doesn't want to do anymore is grievances.” — Ari Weitzman [52:17]
• On Balding & Masculinity
  • “I wish that we just had different sensibilities about men and balding culturally, because it kind of sucks. It sucks to have to worry about that at all…” — Camille [79:05]
• On Parenting Grievances
  • “Amri, my son, has discovered that he can make an incredible amount of noise, which is an awful stage in the development of an infant.” — Isaac Saul [83:14]

TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |:---------:|:---------------| | 02:41 | New York as focal point; Mamdani’s challenge ahead | | 06:49 | Camille’s perspective: left of center voters, moderates vs progressives | | 11:08 | Ari on candidate quality beating ideology | | 13:09 | Isaac’s anti-Cuomo mini-rant, New Jersey analysis | | 24:38 | Why Trump is losing ground on the economy | | 32:30 | Tariffs, Trump strategy, economic anxiety | | 44:48 | The waning power of anti-woke politics | | 53:24 | The shift from grievance politics | | 56:11 | Gerrymandering & Prop 50—The "arms race" debate | | 79:05 | Men, culture, and balding—a humorous support group | | 83:14 | Parenting grievances and the "shriek stage" |

CONCLUSION: TONE & TAKEAWAYS

The episode is lively, analytical, and full of hard-won honesty. The hosts challenge each other constructively, mock the excesses of both the left and the right, and repeatedly come back to the theme that, regardless of the culture wars or political chess moves, it’s affordability and pragmatic governance that motivate voters now. The end features lighthearted “airing of grievances,” from balding to screaming infants, showcasing the relatable humanity at the heart of the panel.

For listeners new to Tangle, this episode is a masterclass in bipartisan political analysis with a dash of wit and plenty of disagreement—without acrimony.

End of summary.