Tangle Podcast: Suspension of the Rules

Episode Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Isaac Saul
Guests: Ari Weitzman (Managing Editor), Camille (Third Chair)

Overview

In this Thanksgiving-week episode of Tangle, the team dives into a mix of recent political developments and some personal, even philosophical, reflection. Major topics include the Trump-Mamdani meeting and its deeper implications, the blow-up over foreign influence on X (Twitter), the meaning of nationalism and patriotism in modern America, and the surprising departure of Marjorie Taylor Greene from Congress. The show wraps with each host sharing political gratitude instead of grievances, in honor of the holiday.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Dress Codes and Air Travel—A Light-hearted Opener

• The episode opens with riffs about a purported airline dress code PSA from Sean Duffy, former reality TV star and current Secretary of Transportation.
• Camille points out, tongue-in-cheek, the odd nostalgia for “days when people wore suits to airports,” contrasting it with today’s travel misery.
• Ari and Isaac dismiss the notion that dress codes can fix broader structural problems with U.S. air travel.

2. The Trump-Mamdani Meeting: Theatre or Substance?

[09:07 - 18:54]

• Isaac raises whether the Trump-Mamdani meeting is more than political theater; he wonders if their shared tendencies (centralization of executive power, willingness to negotiate across ideological lines) signal a deeper connection between the populist right and left:

  “It really does feel meaningful to me that if Trump is making room in the kind of MAGA Coalition...included in that is somebody like Zoran Mamdani.” (08:50)

• Ari highlights the blurring ideological lines:

  “Trump...is pushing the country to become more fiscally conservative. People who were liberal...are looking for reasons to oppose him on anything. Tariffs are a good example of this.” (11:12)

• Camille stresses the long-discussed parallels between left-wing and right-wing populism, particularly on economic issues (e.g., housing, government intervention):

  “We’ve had many, many conversations about the parallels between populism on the left...and the MAGA movement more broadly." (14:10)

• All three agree that while alliances like this tend to be fleeting, the overlap in desire for executive power is a meaningful political thread to watch.

3. Foreign Influence and the X (Twitter) "Country of Origin" Reveal

[18:54 - 37:21]

• Isaac explains Elon Musk’s new X feature showing the country where an account was created, which unmasked numerous supposedly “American” partisan accounts as run from abroad.

  “Many, many, many conservative right-wing MAGA accounts with smoking hot blondes...turned out to be these accounts that are just based in some far off country.” (20:12)

• The hosts discuss the broader implications for political discourse, including a re-examination of past foreign interference (e.g., Russia-2016):

  “Maybe this is a bigger part of our politics than we actually understand.” (22:06)

• Camille and Ari stress that actors worldwide—not just Russia—see U.S. social media as fertile ground for disinformation:

  “It is something where they have an interest and others will too.” — Ari (27:10)

• Isaac points out the inevitable false positives (legit foreign-based journalists or expats wrongly labeled as bots):

  “There will be some misses...Sometimes [journalists] just have done something to try to keep their phone from being tracked, which a lot of them do because of the Israeli government.” (29:25)

• They explore whether it’s right or problematic to discount foreign voices in U.S. discourse—a thread that leads directly into their nationalism vs. patriotism discussion.

4. Nationalism, Patriotism, and Identity

[38:41 - 61:25]

• Isaac confesses to wrestling with feelings of nationalism, prompted by reactions to the foreign account expose:

  “I might be a little bit of a nationalist. Just not like the white nationalist...but just, you know, I’ve been wrestling with this.” (38:41)

• He explores the difference between patriotism and nationalism, questioning societal discomfort with American nationalism versus other countries’ patriotism.

• Camille affirms that anxiety over rapid cultural change is natural across societies and equates much of what is described as “nationalist” sentiment with understandable patriotic concern:

  “It’s interesting that...a lot of people use the word nationalist in...the same way they use the word patriotism. And when I hear you talking...you said a few times, you said, ‘okay’...” (44:23)

• Ari parses the etymology:

  “Patriotic comes from 'pater,' paternal...I think there's a difference between the pride in the thing that we come from compared to the thing that we build.” (52:18)

• The crew reflects on whether “nationalism” can be pluralistic and pro-immigration—Isaac proposes perhaps the American brand of nationalism ought to celebrate diversity.

5. Marjorie Taylor Greene: Exit and Enigma

[62:32 - 82:28]

• Isaac expresses confusion at Greene’s resignation, after years as a shameless provocateur, suddenly quitting in the wake of fighting for issues like affordability and the Epstein files:

  "Nothing she did...was considered beyond the pale...And then she started talking about how Republicans need to have a plan to address the Affordable Care act and how they should release the Epstein file. And she's out. That's it." (63:13)

• Camille notes her wealth and growing disinterest in governing, contrasting her “genuineness” with the possibility she’s just done with the grind:

  “She just is done. She's finished with the fighting and would prefer to do something else.” (80:08)

• Ari is skeptical, suggesting she’s abdicating rather than standing her ground:

  “It seems to me like she's choosing to be loyal to the party one last time by bowing out rather than actually fighting for the constituents that she claims are top of mind.” (74:12)

• All agree her exit is symbolically important for the MAGA movement: a sign of flux and potential vulnerability in the House GOP as more members consider leaving.

6. Political Gratitude

[84:20 - end]

• In lieu of grievances, each host shares gratitude with a political angle:

  • Ari: Grateful for U.S. District Judge Cameron McGowan Curry dismissing a political prosecution, hopeful for fewer investigations-as-entertainment.

    “I really, really don't want us to have to talk about it anymore…” (85:50)

  • Camille: Gives thanks for the ability to engage directly with readers and listeners, valuing civil, open discourse.

    “I am reminded...where I have a direct opportunity to interact with people who read and listen...And I'm really grateful to be in a position to have those conversations.” (87:16)

  • Isaac: Praises Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (D-WA) for moderating rhetoric and bridging divides in Congress.

    “She’s actually turning the temperature down. It feels like to me, she's kind of being against political extremism…” (92:08)

• Post-Thanksgiving, the hosts reflect on the value of consistency (e.g., Thomas Massie, Bernie Sanders), debating whether steadfastness is a virtue when it might also signal closed-mindedness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Isaac Saul [06:38]:
  "I do love the idea that, like I'm in the middle of a flight delay and I've been stuck in, you know, O'Hare Airport for 12 hours. I'm like, God, I'm so glad I'm in this three-piece suit and top hat."

• Ari Weitzman [11:12]:
  "Tariffs are a really good example of this...I'm hearing people from the left...saying the government shouldn't be involved in free enterprise like this. And it's like, oh, that's from the left now, is it?"

• Camille [14:10]:
  "We've had many, many conversations about the parallels between populism on the left...and the MAGA movement more broadly."

• Isaac Saul [20:12]:
  "Many, many, many conservative right-wing MAGA accounts with smoking hot blondes...turned out to be these accounts that are just based in some far off country."

• Ari Weitzman [27:10]:
  "...the idea that Russia did not have an interest in trying to sow disinformation in that election is not what we should have learned from that. In fact, the lesson that I think I took away was, oh, a lot of people, Russia included, see an opportunity in our media ecosystem..."

• Isaac Saul [38:41]:
  "I'm realizing from consuming some of this and some of my personal reactions...that I might be a little bit of a nationalist..."

• Camille [44:23]:
  "It’s interesting that...a lot of people use the word nationalist in...the same way they use the word patriotism."

• Isaac Saul [63:13]:
  "Nothing she did...was considered beyond the pale...And then she started talking about...Affordable Care act...Epstein file. And she's out. That's it."

• Ari Weitzman [74:12]:
  "...she's choosing to be loyal to the party one last time by bowing out rather than actually fighting for the constituents that she claims are top of mind."

• Isaac Saul [92:08]:
  "She’s actually turning the temperature down...she puts a lot of emphasis on how she wants to be heard by people who disagree with her views..."

Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:12 – 06:53: Airline dress code satire and reflections on modern air travel woes.
• 08:50 – 18:54: Trump-Mamdani coalition: Is it substance, theater, or both?
• 20:12 – 37:21: The X (Twitter) “country of origin” reveal and foreign influence debate.
• 38:41 – 61:25: Wrestling with nationalism, patriotism, and American identity.
• 62:32 – 82:28: Marjorie Taylor Greene’s resignation and its meaning for MAGA.
• 84:20 – End: Expressions of gratitude for political and civic actors.

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, irreverent, and intellectually curious, mixing humor and earnestness. The hosts frequently rib one another ("Tucker Carlson body snatching my dear friend Isaac Saul"—Camille, 44:13), but also probe difficult concepts and the gray areas in American politics.

Summary

This Tangle episode covers a wide swath of current events and foundational questions about American political identity. Through the lens of the Trump-Mamdani overture, the foreign-influence-on-X scandal, and Marjorie Taylor Greene’s abrupt exit, the hosts trace the ways ideological lines are blurring and the political landscape is shifting. The extended reflection on nationalism versus patriotism is particularly thought-provoking and showcases the pod’s willingness to dig into messy, contested ideas. The gratitude coda is a welcome pause from political sniping, reinforcing both the podcast’s mission and its community focus.

[End of Summary]