Tangle Podcast: “Suspension of the Rules”

Host: Isaac Saul
Guests: Ari Weitzman, Camille (Camille Foster), John Lowell
Date: October 18, 2025
Episode Focus: Tangle live event in Irvine, CA; the ongoing government shutdown and its uniquely muted public impact; the shifting Overton window in American politics; and a candid discussion of the Young Republican group chat scandal involving racist and violent messages.

Overview

This episode captures the Tangle team in expansive, unfiltered form as they gear up for a big live event in Irvine, California. The core of the conversation is the baffling nature of the ongoing government shutdown—why it has generated so little public alarm or urgency—and the broader question of how American political sensibilities have shifted (the “Overton window”). The crew also tackles a new controversy: the Young Republican leadership group chat filled with racist, violent, and hateful jokes, and the awkwardly dismissive responses from GOP leaders. The episode is threaded with reflections on political cynicism, numbness to scandal, and the double standards applied across the political spectrum. Explicit language and frank discussions are frequent, in keeping with the episode’s warning at the outset.

Main Discussion Sections

1. Upcoming Tangle Live Event in Irvine, CA

[02:04–07:11]

• Isaac describes the event: “We are doing a live event in Irvine, California next week, Friday, October 24... It's at the beautiful Irvine Barclay Theater... We have an incredible lineup: Alex Thompson [author of Original Sin] and Anna Kasparian [Young Turks co-host]. Camille's gonna be on stage doing his weird libertarian garbage.” (02:04)
• Guests from different ideological backgrounds, efforts to bring in MAGA/pro-Trump voices were frustrated (“a couple fell through”).
• Open invite to locals (and those willing to travel for warm weather and political discourse): “If you live in the area, you should come out.” (07:11)
• Amusing banter about “speaking fluent MAGA” (Ari), West Coast culture, and the Tangle team’s California ties.

Notable Quote:

“I think it’s still going to be a really, really awesome show… California is so relevant… gerrymandering, immigration… and two of the top Democratic contenders for 2028 will probably be Californians—Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris.” – Isaac Saul (07:16)

2. The Government Shutdown: Apathy, Distraction, and Power Struggles

[09:10–25:13]

Key Observations:

• Lack of public concern:
  “House Speaker Mike Johnson said this week that he thinks it might end up being the longest shutdown in US History, and nobody cares. I mean, seemingly nobody cares… I’m getting zero of that [interest], not even a blip.” – Camille (09:13)
• Both parties think they’re winning (Ari):
  “Both sides imagine that they are winning this situation… The president has largely kept his distance here… wants to highlight this, but it seems he’s happy to do it with a little bit of distance…” (15:03)
• Administration is focused on foreign affairs; no drive to end the shutdown:
  “We have a president who just does—I mean, he literally doesn’t care about solving it at all… He’s not taking meetings… just all about Argentina on Tuesday, bombing Venezuelan boats, Russia negotiations… zero focus on domestic U.S. politics and opening the government. I don’t know. This seems kind of crazy to me. Nobody’s really talking about [it].” – Camille (09:13–12:54)
• Past shutdowns had a clear issue (border wall, healthcare); this is only about raw power: “There isn’t really anything that this shutdown is about except power… there are no specific demands here.” – Camille (18:13)
• Media focus is absent, and the ‘pain’ hasn’t hit:
  “TSA stuff will create some pain… at some point you imagine this comes downstream to DHS… But I don’t know how close we are to that. And I feel like this really could be a while.” – Camille (21:55)

Notable Quotes:

“If you are Donald Trump, you look feckless. If this minority party is in a position to completely upend your administration and you can't do anything about it, you’re supposed to be a dealmaker… but the buck stops with you.” – Ari Weitzman (16:12)

“It would have been, like, a weeks long scandal in past administrations if we just, like, accidentally fired all these super important people responsible for controlling disease outbreaks... The Trump administration has done it like six times now.” – Camille (18:24)

3. The Overton Window: Scandal Fatigue and Numbness

[26:41–53:45]

On changing standards and shifting outrage:

• General numbness:
  “It is pretty remarkable how much our sensitivity has changed in such a short period of time. And I think that might end up being the most impactful legacy that Trump leaves behind… the Overton window is just, like, permanently shifted...” – Isaac Saul (30:58–31:23)

• Role of the media ecosystem:
  “The news cycle is filtered not through the big several media organizations... It much more so lives online. Your social media feed is, in fact, the news cycle...” – Ari (31:55–33:00)

• Cynicism and normalizing corruption:
  “We’ve been conditioned into a level of cynicism... it’s just like, yeah, of course, Trump is corrupt, Biden is half dead… Obama was hope and change but full of shit… the bar has been lowered so far, and the cynicism so deep...” – Isaac (43:56)

• Escalation metaphor:
  “If we didn’t stop the train now or before, now we’re having a harder time stopping the train at this station… what’s the next thing that’s going to happen? …It feels like an escalation framework is more accurate...” – John Lowell (51:00)

Notable Quotes:

“Trump family amasses $5 billion fortune from crypto scheme… Like, we, like, and it’s just like we’re not even talking about it. Like, there’s no… it’s just so nuts to me.” – Isaac (38:08–39:59)

“If Hunter Biden did any of this, it would be extraordinary.” – Ari (41:24)

“It just builds and builds and builds. And now we’re here… How quick it happened and it feels… what does that mean about where we’re gonna be?” – Isaac (46:48)

4. Destabilization, Populism, and Possible Resets

[53:45–59:44]

• Pendulum analogy:
  “There’s going to be a pendulum effect to that too. And it’s not like this is a permanent state of affairs… but it always swings back some way in some action.” – John Lowell (51:00–53:45)

• Is return to moderation likely?
  Isaac hopes for a clean, moderate figure (“Henry Roosevelt muckraker kind of person”) who can unite the center and run a “clean fashion that sort of resets the standard”. But nobody sees likely candidates on the horizon.
  “The Gen Z protests in Nepal, Morocco, Madagascar… have led to real overthrowing governments… That feels like the much more likely progression of things than a return to moderation…” – Ari (55:14)
  “We saw hordes of people in the US Capitol. That’s not a fantasy, that’s not a fever dream—we actually saw it.” – John (58:26)

5. Young Republican Group Chat Scandal (“Nazi Group Chat”)

[60:48–86:22]

Summary:

• Leaders of young Republican groups used slurs, racist and violent jokes (e.g., “referred to Black people as monkeys... mused about putting their political opponents in gas chambers… referred to rape as epic…”).
• One defense (common among conservatives, including Vice President J.D. Vance): “these are just kids goofing off in a chat… not a big story.”
• The Tangle team is sharply critical of this, questioning the double standard compared to other situations where young people (including left-wing students) face dire consequences for much less:
  “If you’re going to have this standard that a 25-year-old or 28-year-old needs to be forgiven for their words, that’s okay… but you have to apply it evenly.” – Isaac (66:26)

Key Points & Quotes:

• “It’s not really like, again, it’s a joke, but it’s not a good joke. But it’s still a joke. And it’s something that we would excuse in people who are immature, like teenagers… But… these are future leaders of the political world.” – John (67:24)

• “If you are aware of it, when the opportunity comes to distinguish yourself as a respectable mainstream politician… you take that opportunity… you have to be very specific about establishing what your affirmative values are.” – Camille (69:49)

• “It seems totally appropriate for there to be consequences… The fact that these people have some proximity to power means that… you lose your job when you’ve said things that are sufficiently bad a sufficient number of times.” – Ari (76:11)

• Grace versus consequences:
  Isaac shares his own evolution (“I’ve always been somebody who’s a really strong proponent of the evolution and a little bit of grace… But these are people with power… I think it is a place where there should be consequences… maybe they shouldn’t be the chapter leader of the Arkansas Republican Party for young Republicans…” (82:05–86:22))

6. Airing of Grievances & Notable Closing Moments

[89:00–end (~104:00)]

Lighthearted, explicit, candid:

• Isaac’s Grievance: With Citibank and poor customer service; story of switching to Chase Sapphire (“that, my friends, is how you fucking do business”). (91:12–93:41)
• Ari’s Grievance: JetBlue’s loyalty program doesn’t properly reward massive spending with free upgrades; exhorts JetBlue to “work something out with Me, because I suppose I’m an influencer or something…” (94:54–96:45)
• John’s Grievance: Keyboard malfunction creates chaos right before recording. (97:48–101:04)
• Language discussion:
  Self-aware joking regarding use of slurs, foul language—“My third slur of the day” (Camille) (93:52)—and why the show can’t entirely avoid explicit language.
  Isaac: “The mouth is unchanged… language is expansive and a beautiful thing, and I think foul language should be part of it.” (94:15–94:28)

Memorable Quotes Roundup

• “The volume of scandals… the kind of brazenness with which some of these things play out… it all looks extremely gross, but they’re kind of unapologetic about it. And it seems that’s enough to make it not really a big story.” – Ari (35:11)
• “He bombed a dozen people accused of smuggling drugs and deleted them off the face of the earth without any hearing or proof or anything else. That’s what happened.” – Isaac (46:48)
• “You lose your job when you’ve said things that are sufficiently bad a sufficient number of times.” – Ari, on the Young Republican scandal (76:11)

Summary Table of Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | Notable Quote/Theme | |-------------|---------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 02:04–07:11 | Live event preview and lineup | “California is so relevant…” – Isaac | | 09:10–25:13 | Government shutdown, unique apathy, power struggle | “Nobody cares…” – Camille; “Buck stops with you…” – Ari | | 26:41–53:45 | Overton window, scandal fatigue, cynicism escalates | “Our sensitivity has changed…” – Isaac | | 53:45–59:44 | Populism, destabilization, pendulum analogies | “It always swings back some way…” – John | | 60:48–86:22 | Young Republican group chat scandal, hypocrisy & grace | “Just below what a major party should be doing…” – John | | 89:00+ | Airing of grievances, language, show outro | “That, my friends, is how you fucking do business.” – Isaac |

Conclusion

This episode is quintessential Tangle: fearless in its exploration of political disillusionment, open about its own biases and standards, and unafraid to wrestle with contradictions and hypocrisy within the news cycle and public discourse. The conversation is especially timely—the government shutdown continues with historic indifference, and a fresh scandal stirs old questions of accountability. Underneath all the banter and explicit language, the team’s commitment to intellectual honesty and cross-ideological dialogue stands out, offering a nuanced lens for listeners that want more than just hot takes.