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- [01:24]
Trisha Hershberger
Hey, I'm Trisha Hershberger, gamer, streamer and Amazon Live host. I stream about tech, gaming and the stuff I actually buy right here with my community. And Amazon Live makes it easy. Streaming, gameplay, scouting, new gear, chatting and shopping all at the same time. That's my kind of multitasking. And it all happens on Amazon Live. Shop on Amazon Live by searching Amazon Live in the Amazon Shopping app and follow your favorite creators. To today.
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Bombas Advertiser
From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
- [02:12]
Isaac Saul
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast. The place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul, and on today's episode we're going to be talking about the stabbing incident in Charlotte, North Carolina, a video of which has caused a national outcry and started a debate about crime and public spaces and mental health here in the United States. We're going to break down exactly what happened, share some views from the left and the right and then I've got my take today. I'm going to send it over to Will, who's going to break down today's main topic and I'll be back for my take.
- [03:00]
Bombas Spokesperson
Thanks, Isaac. Here are today's quick hits. Number one, Poland said that it shot down multiple Russian drones that entered its territory overnight. Belarus claimed that the drones had gone off course after being jammed, but some European leaders alleged the incursion was deliberate. Number two, the Supreme Court agreed to hear two cases on the legality of the Trump administration's tariffs, with oral arguments planned for the first week of November. Separately, Chief Justice John Roberts issued a temporary administrative stay, allowing the Trump administration to pause disbursement of roughly $4 billion in foreign aid while the move is challenged in court. Number three, Hamas said that its primary leaders survived Israel's airstrike on its senior political leadership in Qatar, but five of its members were killed. President Trump said Israel informed the United States of the attack ahead of time, but criticized the country for attacking inside Qatar. Number four, a federal judge ruled that Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook can remain in her role while her legal challenge to President Trump's attempt to fire her plays out. The Trump administration is expected to appeal the decision. And finally, number five, Nepal's prime minister resigned amid widespread protests catalyzed by a ban on social media platforms. At least 19 protesters have been killed in clashes with the police. Before we start on today's main topic, a quick note that today's topic involves descriptions of graphic violence.
- [04:40]
Will K. Back
It was two weeks ago today that this woman, Aryna Zarutska, a Ukrainian refugee, was killed while riding the light rail in South Charlotte. Since that time, there have been several questions about what happened, why it happened and could it have been prevented. Today, Katz released surveillance video of the events leading up to and after her murder and we want to warn you, some of these images could be considered disturbing to our viewers.
- [05:03]
Bombas Spokesperson
On Friday, August 22, 23 year old Ukrainian refugee Irina Zarudska was stabbed to death on a light rail in Charlotte, North Carolina. Police arrested 34 year old ex convict Decarlos Brown Jr. As a suspect in Zarudska's death and charged him with murder. On Tuesday, the Justice Department also charged Brown with a federal crime. The incident has sparked a national debate about public safety and criminal justice reform, as well as criticism from conservative commentators about media coverage of the attack. Officials said that Brown and Zyrutska appeared to have no interaction prior to the stabbing, according to a public affidavit, and police have not offered a Motive for the attack. Zyrutska had immigrated to the United States from Ukraine in 2022 and was returning from work at a local pizzeria when she was killed. On September 5th. The Charlotte area Transit System released surveillance video of the attack. The video appears to show Zyritska entering the train car and sitting in front of Brown, who appeared agitated before Brown unfolds a knife and stabs Zyritska. Brown can then be seen walking down the train car before removing his sweatshirt and exiting the train, and he was arrested at the train platform shortly after that. Brown had an extensive criminal record prior to the stabbing. In 2014, he was convicted of felony breaking and entering and sentenced to 30 days in jail and 24 months supervised probation. Later that year, he was convicted of a robbery with a dangerous weapon and possession of a firearm by a felon. Brown served five years in prison before he was released and placed on one year of parole in 2020. In January 2025, Charlotte police arrested Brown for a third time for allegedly misusing 911. Brown told officers he had been given a, quote, man made substance that controlled his behavior and dialed 911 in front of officers when he was dissatisfied with their response. A magistrate released Brown on a promissory note to appear before the court, and on July 28, Judge Roy Wiggins directed him to get a forensic evaluation. Members of the Trump administration blamed the criminal justice policies in Charlotte for Zarutska's death. Quote, the public transportation system in a major American city was more dangerous than the war zone Zarutska left behind, white House press secretary Carolyn Levitt said on Monday. These are blue cities and they have all supported these disastrous policies which allow repeated career criminals back onto the streets to further commit acts of violence. Quote, if mayors can't keep their trains and buses safe, they don't deserve the taxpayers money, U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said in a statement. North Carolina Democrats also expressed dismay over the stabbing, but said the state's policies were not to blame for the attack. Instead, a spokesperson for former governor and current Senate candidate Roy Cooper criticized federal policies that cut local and state law enforcement funding. Charlotte Mayor V. Lyles, who won her primary election on Tuesday, faced criticism for her initial statement on the attack, which some said focused more on the assailant than the victim. Lyles later said that she supports legislation to keep repeat offenders like Brown off the streets. Today we'll get into what the left and right are saying about this attack and the fallout from it. Then Isaac will give his take.
- [08:25]
Isaac Saul
We'll be right back after this quick break. This episode of Tangle is brought to you by Wildgrain. Wildgrain is the first baked from frozen subscription box for artisanal breads, seasonal pastries and fresh pastas. Plus all items conveniently bake in 25 minutes or less. Before we decided to run this ad in Tangle, I told Wildgreen that I wanted to try the product, so they sent me a box and I have to say I was pretty much blown away. They have everything from apple cider donuts and pumpkin cinnamon biscuits to perfectly fresh sourdough bread. This fall, treat yourself and your loved ones to warm sourdough breads and seasonal baked goods from Wild Grain. Rumor has it, which I just confirmed, they have apple cider donuts and pumpkin cinnamon biscuits and you can get them before these items sell out. For a limited time, Wildgreen's offering our listeners $30 off the first box plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgreen.comTangle to start your subscription. You heard me. Free croissants in every box and $30 off your box when you go to wildgrain.comtangle that's wildgrain.comtangle or you can use the promo code Tangle at checkout. Don't miss their seasonal products. Cooler temps are rolling in and as always, Quince is where I'm turning for fall staples that actually last. From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price still blows me away. Quince is all the kinds of fall staples you'll wear nonstop, like Mongolian cashmere sweaters that start at just $60. Their denim is durable and fits right. They're real leather jackets, which I'm not nearly cool enough to wear. They bring that clean, classic edge without the elevated price. T. This past summer I became a huge linen guy thanks to Quinn's. I bought up all their best linen shirts and now the fall's here so I'm getting pants, sweaters, longer tees, all the good stuff that I need. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com tangle for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, which I've used before. That's quince. Q-U-I-N C E.com tangle free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com dangle lately every day feels like one non stop breaking news story and every headline seems increasingly dire. With so much noise, it can be hard to figure out what deserves our time and attention that's where Pod Save America comes in every Tuesday and Friday, John Lovett, Tommy Vedder, Jon Favreau and Dan Pfeiffer break down the latest political developments with sharp analysis, unfiltered insights and just enough humor to keep us all from spiraling into a Twitter fight. Most of the time. Join in as they have candid conversations you won't hear anywhere else with guests across the non brainworm political spectrum. You can listen to Pod Save America wherever you get your podcasts, watch on YouTube or subscribe on Apple Podcasts for ad free episodes.
- [11:26]
Bombas Spokesperson
Before we get into what commentators on the left and right are saying, we want to note a point of agreement. Writers and lawmakers on both sides express horror at the attack and sympathy for the victim. Now on to what the left is saying. The left is alarmed by Zyrutska's killing, but disputes that Democratic policies are to blame. Some reject the notion that the attack was motivated by racial animus. Others call on lawmakers to invest more in mental health services. In the Charlotte Observer, Paige Masten wrote, trump is making the Charlotte light rail killing a partisan issue. It's not that simple. Of course, there is a legitimate discussion to be had about public safety in Charlotte and legitimate questions about the failures that might have allowed this incident to occur. Safety is an issue that has dogged the city for some time, and it's one that leaders can't afford to ignore. Mayor V. Lyles announced in a statement Monday that the city is taking action to increase transit safety, including increasing fare enforcement and police patrols. Masten said that's a start, but it's unfortunate that it took such intense politicization of this tragedy to get Lyles and Katz to finally act on one facet of it. But this isn't a Democrat versus Republican issue, and it's wrong to treat it as one. While the focus is often on crime in blue cities and blue states, it's an issue in red cities and red states as well. In fact, data shows that homicide rates tend to be highest in blue cities located in red states, suggesting that neither party is solely to blame. In fact, red states tend to have higher homicide rates than blue states, in part due to higher rates of gun homicides, masten wrote. That's something Trump and Republicans don't tend to acknowledge. Using a tragedy like this to advance a particular political narrative or promote one candidate over another is distasteful and divisive. On Newsnight with Abby Phillip on cnn, Van Jones argued the right is race mongering. In response to the murder note this is a transcription of Jones's comments on the television show. What happened to that young woman was horrible, and it's everybody's nightmare. You're in any public space or subway and something bad happens to you or somebody you care about. So it does strike a chord, jones said. We don't know why that man did what he did. And for Charlie Kirk and other conservatives to say we know he did it because she's white when there's no evidence of that is just pure race mongering, hate mongering. It's wrong. Kirk says that if something like that had happened the other way, there would be sweeping changes imposed on society. Well, where is the George Floyd Policing Act? It didn't pass even when you had a white police officer murder a black man live on television. The whole world saw there was no sweeping changes. In fact, not one law was passed at the federal level, jones said. What happened was horrible, but it becomes an opportunity for people to jump on bandwagons. And then for somebody like Charlie Kirk, he should be ashamed of himself. No one mentioned the word race, white, black or anything except him. What people mentioned is the horror of what happened to this young woman. In her substack, Andrea Burkhart said criminalizing mental illness is getting us killed. Retribution sells, rehabilitation doesn't like every other state in the nation, North Carolina has a severe shortage of psychiatric beds. Mental health treatment and crisis intervention are not funding priorities for legislatures, burkhart wrote. I've seen a lot of criticism of woke and leftist policies as contributing to Ms. Sirutska's horrendous demise. But Republicans control North Carolina's legislature and have not taken the opportunity to provide the mental health system and the resources it needs to fulfill its function. President Trump recently supported reopening insane asylums in an interview. The thing is, there's no legal impediment to rebuilding a robust mental health system. What stands in the way of more and better psychiatric resources is nothing more than political will. But legislators are far more skilled at deflecting their own responsibility for public safety failures onto others than doing the hard work of actually addressing public safety failures, burkhart said. And around we go, promoting more of the same retributive policies that have led us to imprison more people than China, despite having less than a quarter of the population and an ostensibly freer society. In the meantime, Mr. Brown will almost certainly be pursuing the most foreseeable insanity defense ever. Now, here's what the right is. The right sees the stabbing as symptomatic of lenient policies toward crime from Democratic leaders. Some call for stricter laws to keep repeat offenders off the streets. Others say the left's internal politics prevent it from reckoning with this issue. In the Charlotte Observer, Andrew Dunn argued the attack should jolt Charlotte awake. No murder is acceptable, but some shock the conscience more than others. Random killings of young people in places where they should have had every expectation of safety leave us shaken in a way others do not, dunn wrote. Three days after the stabbing, the Charlotte Police Department published a graphic bragging about the real picture of crime in our city, claiming that homicides and armed robberies were down 30% from last year. That may be true, or it may not be, but Irina Zyritska's murder makes a mockery of the comfort we try to take in statistics. Too often, Charlotte's leaders have talked about crime as if it's a perception problem. Uptown business groups launch PR campaigns, news slogans and billboard ads to assure people it's safe. They talk about vibrancy and image about whether visitors feel comfortable. But this is not a marketing issue. It's a human one, dunn said. That culture of permissiveness has to end. Riders should know every person on that train has paid to be there. CMPD and CATS must post a visible security presence on platforms and trains. And judges must stop releasing violent offenders back into the community on little more than a promise. In Fox News, Representative Mark Harris, a Republican from North Carolina, said Aryna Zyrutska fled Ukraine for safety, but Democrats soft on crime policies failed her. This was not a random act. It was a preventable tragedy, a failure of our system to protect the vulnerable. America failed Zyrutska, and we must ensure it does not fail others like her, harris wrote. This incident reflects a broader crisis unfolding across our nation where soft on crime policies allow dangerous criminals to evade accountability. Charlotte Mayor V. Lyles has claimed, we will never arrest our way out of issues such as homelessness and mental health. End quote. I disagree. Though addressing root causes is important, we cannot ignore the immediate need to protect our communities by ensuring repeat offenders face consequences. The left's approach of prioritizing leniency for offenders over justice for victims has left too many, like arena, vulnerable. In Democrat led cities from Charlotte to Chicago, we see a troubling pattern of downplaying lawlessness while overlooking the pain of those who suffer, harris said. To address this crisis, we need a balanced approach, immediate, robust law enforcement to remove dangerous offenders from our streets and long term investments to tackle the root causes of crime. It also means reforming bail systems to ensure violent repeat offenders are not easily released to harm innocent people like Zyritska. In the Free Press, Kat Rosenfield wrote about the taboo that killed Irina Zyritska. Until the security footage from that night was released, the story flew oddly under the radar. It did so for the same reasons that it's now become a flashpoint in online discourse about crime, disorder and public safety in American cities today, Rosenfield said. For conservatives, this incident seems like a slam dunked indictment of the progressive attitudes toward policing and criminal justice that emerged in the wake of the 2020 police killing of George Floyd. But while this vicious crime plausibly represents the policy chickens of 2020 coming home to roost, that only halfway explains why the story has so captured the public imagination. The greater issue is a cultural one, a growing frustration with what often feels like limitless tolerance for public disorder and antisocial behavioral and with it, a sense that one must not only avoid discussing these things to remain a liberal in good standing, but actively pretend they don't exist, rosenfeld wrote. In shying away from what is politically inconvenient, ugly or otherwise uncomfortable, we not only cede the conversation to racist idiots, but relinquish with it all hopes of a better future. The problem is not politics per se, but an inability to course correct when what seemed like progress turned out to be a misstep. All right, that is it for what the left and right are saying. I'll send it back over to Isaac for his take.
- [20:20]
Isaac Saul
Alright, that is it for what the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take. If you watch the video of Aryna Zarudska's killing, which I did and I don't recommend it is truly stomach churning. The incident shows everyone's worst nightmare about public spaces. A random unprovoked attack, violent and sudden, while onlookers do quite literally nothing to help or aid you as you die in front of them. The moment I saw it, I knew the story would gain national attention. Not because the assailant to Carlos Brown Jr. Is black and Zarudska is white. Not even because Zarutska was a Ukrainian refugee, though of course the symbolism of her surviving and fleeing a war only to be murdered on a Miss American public transport is a little too on the nose. I knew it would become a national news event because the lead up is just so familiar and the brutality is so plain. One minute Zarudska is casually scrolling on her phone on a train car, the same way we all do, surrounded by people all in their own little world zoning out as they roll along. The next minute, the seemingly calm hooded man behind her completely snaps, stabbing her several times in the neck before walking away as if he were just getting up for a stop. All the while, she bleeds out with onlookers frozen in shock or apathy. What do you say? I grasp at words like mortifying or horrific, but they honestly don't come close. Sirutska's death did draw national attention, mostly focused on the societal tendency to ignore people acting erratically in public. Rao Brown was arrested and released more than a dozen times. Or how the liberal, lefty, corporate sleazy mainstream media didn't cover it the same way they covered Daniel Penny, a white man who killed a black man on public transportation, and how this is evidence of the way they are brainwashing the public. These narratives all strike me as both superficial and unhelpful. Unlike some writers, I did not think Zyrutska sat in a seat we should all avoid. I've lived in major American cities my entire adult life, and I have a pretty good radar for the kinds of people to steer clear of. The scariest part of this incident to me is that Brown didn't look dangerous. He looked mostly like the kind of sleepy, exhausted patron of public transportation you see all the time. That he's black or has dreads or is wearing a red hoodie shouldn't set off alarm bells. If any one of those qualities did, then just existing in public would be an intolerable adventure. Brown didn't appear agitated until long after Zaruska had sat down, and by then it was too late to me. That's what makes it so difficult to process and so unsettling to the core. I also don't give much credence to the idea that the national outlets tried to bury this story here at Tangle. What to give attention to and what to show our readers is usually one of the toughest questions we ask every day. While the release of the surveillance footage sparked a robust debate, the actual stabbing occurred on August 22nd. Before this weekend, even local coverage of the murder was sparse. It's not as if all these media critics were on top of the murder the day after it happened. The larger reaction was caused by how graphic the video is. That an outlet like the New York Times would not dedicate coverage to a murder in Charlotte two weeks after it happened is not at all surprising to me. Why did the New York Times cover Daniel Penny killing Jordan Neely so much? But ignore this is also not a hard question to answer. It's the New York Times and Penny killed someone on the New York subway. It's their city, their story. Multiple videos of Neely's death were also made public immediately hours after the incident. That Penny claimed to be a Good Samaritan trying to protect a train full of people from an erratic passenger was also novel. That's what made the story such a sensational source for rich dialogue and debate. That's why it was bigger. To be frank, I think it's harder to justify dedicating limited space to a single violent crime in Charlotte than it is to just ignore it. Though the story the Times eventually produce, which frame this as an animating issue for the right, certainly rubbed me the wrong way. Where I believe the public should focus the conversation is how to navigate the treatment first punishment question. Going forward, I don't think the solution is as simple as many people seem to think, which is Lock him up. I've articulated my most extreme political view in this newsletter and podcast, which is I don't think humans belong in cages, full stop. Anyone trying to convince you they do, or that prisons can consistently fix people, or that they genuinely improve public safety is describing prisons as they wish them to be, but not as they are. Better arguments might be that removing dangerous people from society keeps us safe, or that victims deserve justice even when it is brutal or draconian as putting people in cages is. Yet when these arguments only view the options for isolating people as narrowly tailored to prison, they don't grapple with the reality that delivering justice for present day victims might be creating more victims in the future. But I also readily admit that this is in a lot of ways squishy. It's an emotional appeal. Without a tangible solution, I don't yet have a fleshed out alternative to prisons. People deserve safety, and if someone proves they can't operate in civilized society, if they infringe on the safety and freedom of others, then it is just and fair to try to find a way to temporarily remove them. I want those people to be isolated so my friends, family and fellow Americans can live safely. Brown was one such person. He had been arrested 14 times in North Carolina for everything from assault to firearms possession to felony robbery. Should we blame a lack of cash bail in Charlotte? I'll put it this way. Would you have felt better about the murder had one of Brown's friends or family paid the government $1,500 to get him released before he killed Zyrutska? Is our society better off if someone with a few thousand dollars handy can commit crimes and walk free while someone without that money can't. I honestly don't find that argument particularly compelling, and it isn't at all clear to me that this crime doesn't happen if Brown had posted bail. Everything we learned about Brown after he was identified as a suspect can help inform this conversation. He served five years in prison for armed robbery, yet this did not dissuade him from future crimes. His own mother told a local TV station that he was schizophrenic. He was forcefully admitted for two weeks and diagnosed. When he became so aggressive, she couldn't handle him. She kicked him out of her house. He was recently arrested for abusing the 911 system. He had told police that he was being poisoned and that how he ate, walked and talked was being controlled, a classic manifestation of schizophrenia. A judge heard these details and then released him with a promise to appear before a court at a later date. That was the last contact he had with the justice system before he killed Zarutska. How do we want to handle people like this? For a convicted criminal diagnosed by a professional team with a treatable but challenging mental illness, do we think putting him in a prison cell is the best response? Or a psych ward or something at the intersection of the two? Do we think these people should get a say in their own fate? Or have they forfeited that right by making it clear they can't control their behavior? Do we want the public to fund services to isolate and treat these people in the name of public safety and crime reduction and basic human instinct to help? Or do we want the burden to be on the families and the private sector? These are the kinds of meaningful, actionable questions at the heart of this story. I don't have all the answers, but I know a few things about how I would have considered Brown's case before the murder, which will rightfully land him in jail for life and possibly garner the death penalty? One, I'd rather that Brown be isolated from society than walking free. Two, I'd rather he be in a place where he is getting treatment so that he can one day have a chance to be reintegrated into society rather than getting punishment, which again, did not seem to help him reintegrate. Three, I'd gladly give over a larger chunk of my tax dollars to funding such treatment centers if I knew it would meaningfully make our streets safer and citizens healthier and give Brown at least a fleeting chance at a redemption story. Most of the country shares the horror of this murder, and most of us seem to agree we can't keep living like this with so many unwell and potentially dangerous people left to their own devices. If our options are prisoner help, I think we can and should recognize that prison often fails people like Brown. It did not rehabilitate or deter him, and that outcome is the norm. Help. The centers and treatments we have are the ones we are yet to build is hard and complicated and expensive, but so are most good things. For all the talk of lefty criminal justice policies being conceptual failures, there's very little chatter about how these policies have not been followed through on in North Carolina. The state has a shortage of psychiatric beds and lacks funding for rehabilitation programs. If we want to break this cycle and change the trajectory of these public spaces and this troubled population, I think we ought to not only imagine something better than a cage, but actually follow through on creating a better system, not just for us, but for future victims and future perpetrators, too. All right, that is it for my take. I'm going to pass it over to Audrey today who has a staff dissent.
- [29:36]
Audrey Moorhead Bailey
Thanks, Isaac. While I agree with Isaac's critique of our prison system, I disagree that the primary goal of the justice system is necessarily rehabilitation and reintegration, especially in cases of violence or severe mental illness. Violent offenders recidivate at a higher rate sooner and for more serious crimes than nonviolent offenders. Furthermore, roughly 1% of the population is accountable for 63% of violent crime convictions. I believe we ought to sentence recidivism more seriously than first offenses. And while I personally believe that Brown's mental illness means he is not fully culpable for the crime he committed, I think our present ability to treat violent mental illness is patchy at best. Primarily, I'm concerned that prioritizing reintegration in these cases, given the limitations of the current science, could lead to more danger for both the ill individual and others. Okay, now I'll send it over to Will for the rest of today's pod.
- [30:36]
Isaac Saul
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [30:42]
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- [31:08]
Marc Maron
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- [31:51]
Bombas Spokesperson
All right, let's take things home with today's under the Radar story. In September, the Department of Health and Human Services is expected to release a report identifying potential causes of autism at the behest of HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The review will reportedly highlight the use of the pain reliever Tylenol during pregnancy as one cause, as well as low levels of folate, a vitamin that assists in the production of DNA and rna. Some studies have suggested that Tylenol poses a risk to fetal development, but major medical associations say it's safe to use in pregnancy with a doctor's consultation. This report is not finalized, and whether Kennedy and HHS plan to allege a link between vaccines and autism in the final version is still unknown. The Wall Street Journal has this story and you can find the link to it in today's show. Notes now onto numbers about today's main topic. The approximate number of years that Irina Zyrutska had lived in the United States after immigrating in August 2022 to escape the war in Ukraine was three years. The number of times that DeCarlos Brown Jr. Was arrested prior to being charged with murdering Zyritska was 14 times. The approximate amount of federal transport funding the city of Charlotte, North Carolina receives is about $50 million, and the percentage of Charlotte's total transit operating budget covered by federal funds is about 12%. The approximate violent crime rate in Charlotte is 733 per 100,000. The approximate murder and non negligent homicide rate in Charlotte is approximately 11 per 100,000. And finally, the approximate violent crime rate in the United States in 2024 was 359 per 100,000. Finally, here is today's have a nice day story. Guinness World records recently celebrated 70 years since its first book of amazing and unusual achievements, marking the anniversary by highlighting some of the uplifting stories of record holders. One such person is Zayla Avant Garde, who holds the record for the most bound struggles in one minute with four basketballs at 255 avant garde, now 18, has gone on to win the Scripps National Spelling Bee, author a best selling book and be named Sports Illustrated Kids Sports Kid of the Year. In addition to sharing these stories, Guinness world records identified 70 potential records that had yet to be broken, including the fastest 400 meter sack race, farthest distance to bounce a coin into a cup, and the most headbands worn at once. Nice News has this story and again the link to it is in today's show Notes all right, that is it for today's edition. Thank you as always for being with us. We'll be back tomorrow. Until then, have a great day.
- [34:41]
Isaac Saul
Our Executive editor and founder is me, Isaac Sowell and our Executive producer is John Woll. Today's episode was and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will K. Back and Associate Editors Hunter Casperson, Audrey Moorhead Bailey, Saul, Lindsey Knuth and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@readtangle.com.
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Trisha Hershberger
Hey, I'm Trisha Hershberger, gamer, streamer and Amazon Live host. I stream about tech, gaming and the stuff I actually buy right here with my community. And Amazon Live makes it easy. Streaming, gameplay, scouting, new gear, chatting and shopping all at the same time. That's my kind of multitasking. And it all happens on Amazon Live. Shop on Amazon Live by searching Amazon Live in the Amazon Shopping app and follow your favorite creators.
- [36:17]
World Courier Testimonial Speaker
Today, Carol, you're in remission. I think what gets me most about this whole journey that I've been through is just how many jigsaw pieces come together to help someone like me. I've met people who have just packaged the drugs, just this white box saying World Courier on it. But I want to better say thank you to every single person that works on these things. Because they've saved my life. Every single one of them.
- [36:41]
Isaac Saul
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