Tangle Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: The DOJ investigates Jerome Powell
Host: Isaac Saul
Date: January 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the unprecedented Department of Justice (DOJ) criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. Host Isaac Saul and the Tangle team break down the context, political reactions from across the spectrum, and implications for Federal Reserve independence. Saul also delivers an in-depth personal take on the situation’s gravity for American institutions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Main Story Introduction

[03:08 - 04:17] Isaac Saul, John

• Isaac introduces the day's main focus: the criminal probe into Fed Chair Jerome Powell and the possible threat it poses to central bank independence.
• Teases a behind-the-scenes 'Press Pass' episode about Tangle media transparency.

2. News Recap & Powell Investigation Context

[04:17 - 09:18] John

• Powell served with a grand jury subpoena: Investigation centers on his June 2025 Senate testimony about renovations at Fed headquarters.
• Powell’s response: Labels the DOJ action "unprecedented" and claims it stems from White House pressure, not actual wrongdoing.
• Political background:
  • President Trump has publicly pressured Powell to lower interest rates since his campaign and after taking office.
  • Trump’s prior attempt to fire another Fed Governor, Lisa Cook, failed under Supreme Court review.
• Broad reactions:
  • Democratic and Republican criticism of executive interference in Fed independence.
  • Some expect Trump's move to face resistance in Congress.

3. Arguments from the Left

[11:20 - 15:28] John

• Theme: The investigation is seen as an attack on Federal Reserve independence and a backfiring political error by Trump.
• Highlights from analysts:
  • Jonathan Levin (Bloomberg):

    "These are officially the darkest days for Federal Reserve independence since at least the Nixon administration... It's the sort of treatment you'd expect in a tin pot banana republic." (12:30)

  • Robert Kutner (American Prospect):
    • Notes Powell’s hiring of top legal counsel.
    • Predicts the courts will not side with the administration, and that the bipartisan pushback could reinforce Fed independence.
  • Jonathan Chait (The Atlantic):

    "Trump is defecating where his wealthy donors eat. Perhaps they will go along with this too, but he is testing the limits of their acquiescence." (14:42)

    • Argues the move tests even wealthy Republican donors' willingness to undermine stable monetary policy.

4. Arguments from the Right

[15:28 - 19:19] John

• Theme: Mixed reactions—some call for withholding judgment; others see a naked political play.
• Highlights from columnists:
  • Guy Benson (Washington Examiner):

    "Let's wait and see the evidence against Jerome Powell. It's usually wise to wait for the facts before rushing out definitive declarations." (16:01)

    • Warns against leaping to conclusions, cites past overreactions.
  • Andrew C. McCarthy (National Review):
    • Calls for legal reforms to prevent politicized probes of independent officials.
    • Urges Congress to block Trump Fed nominations pending investigation outcome.
  • Greg Ip (Wall Street Journal):

    "The criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell isn't ultimately about the Fed's headquarters or Powell or even interest rates. It's about power." (18:40)

    • Suggests the probe serves as a warning to Powell’s successor to align with the White House's wishes.

5. Isaac Saul’s Take: Why This Moment Matters

[19:19 - 26:51] Isaac Saul

• Reads Powell’s full statement to center the discussion.

  “This unprecedented action should be seen in the broader context of the administration's threats and ongoing pressure. This new threat is not about my testimony last June or about the renovation of the Federal Reserve buildings... This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions, or... be directed by political pressure or intimidation.” (19:46, quoting Jerome Powell)

• Isaac’s analysis:

  • Calls Powell’s statement “boringly accurate” and the attack "explicitly political."
  • Observes Powell’s record is “squeaky clean” and the case is not about crime but about policy pressure.
  • Criticizes Trump’s direct interference:

    “Trump is injecting politics into the Fed in a way that we've never seen.” (21:51)

  • Notes some Republicans breaking with the President:
    • Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA):

      “We need this like we need a bullet in the head.” (23:12)

    • Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC): promised to block any Fed nominees until the investigation is resolved.
  • Rebukes administration defenders and DOJ:

    “Pretending Trump isn't behind this... is an insult to the entire nation's intelligence.” (26:09)

  • Contrasts with prior DOJ independence under Attorney General Garland.
  • Argues the investigation could destabilize markets and tests Congressional Republican loyalty.
  • Warns:

    “If that's where we are, the future is darker and more dangerous than I imagined.” (26:27)

6. Listener Q&A: Minnesota ICE Shooting

[26:51 - 32:23] Isaac Saul

• Responds to listener Ty about new video evidence in the Renee Goode shooting.
• Maintains view that the ICE agents escalated and broke protocol, and video does not change his prior assessment.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jerome Powell’s Statement:
  “This unprecedented action should be seen in the broader context of the administration's threats and ongoing pressure. This new threat is not about my testimony last June or about the renovation of the Federal Reserve buildings... This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions, or... be directed by political pressure or intimidation.” (19:46, repeated at 19:19-22:00)

• Isaac Saul:
  “The administration is threatening and politically pressuring the Fed. The investigation is not about Congress's oversight. It's not about the renovation of a building. It's not about whether Powell committed some kind of crime. It's about the administration not getting the interest rates they want and using a criminal probe to pressure Powell into doing their bidding.” (22:01)

• Sen. John Kennedy:
  “We need this like we need a bullet in the head.” (23:12, as cited by Isaac Saul)

• Jonathan Levin (Bloomberg):
  “It's the sort of treatment you'd expect in a tin pot banana republic and it will be a stain on America's reputation for years to come.” (12:30)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:08 | Isaac introduces the Powell investigation | | 04:17 | John recaps Powell’s DOJ subpoena and historical context | | 05:47 | Powell’s statement and political fallout | | 11:20 | Reactions from the left | | 15:28 | Reactions from the right | | 19:19 | Isaac Saul’s detailed analysis | | 26:51 | Listener Q&A about the Minnesota ICE shooting |

Episode Tone & Style

The discussion maintains Tangle’s signature nonpartisan depth, spotlighting arguments from both progressive and conservative voices. Isaac Saul's tone in his personal analysis is candid, direct, and at times passionate, reflecting deep concern for American institutional stability and democratic norms.

Summary

This episode of Tangle delivers a sweeping, nuanced look at the Justice Department’s criminal investigation into Jerome Powell. The discussion explores the unprecedented nature of the probe, broad-based concern over political encroachment on Fed independence, and the high stakes for U.S. economic credibility. Saul’s forthright take crystallizes what many see as a turning point in the balance of governmental power and institutional norms—while pressing the need for principled resistance from Congress and the public.