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- [00:00]
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- [00:25]
Adam Grant
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- [01:30]
Isaac Saul
From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
- [01:44]
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast place. We get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul, and on today's episode we're going to be talking about the protests in Los Angeles and all the images and news that we're getting out of Southern California about some of what's happening. Will is going to be filling in for John on the podcast today because John's a bit under the weather and his voice doesn't sound very good right now. Ironically, I'm also sick, so I don't sound great either. But you're just going to have to deal with it for today. Before we jump in and I pass over to Will for today's main story, I want to give you a quick heads up that we have been churning out all manner of fantastic coverage, in my opinion, over the last few days. Just a lot of good content, I think, in case you missed it, a heads up that I had a conversation with Jonah Platt where he came on the podcast to discuss my piece on Zionism that is up on our YouTube channel and it's in our podcast feed. It's sort of a Jonah interviews Isaac on Isaac's podcast experience, which I think was pretty fun. And we had a thought, a really thoughtful and respectful discussion, despite clearly not seeing eye to eye on some core stuff here. Second, we have a newsletter that came out on Friday that was a bunch of your criticisms and some of my responses all published in one place on that same piece on Zionism. And then on Thursday, me, Camille and Ari were recording the Emergency podcast. Well, actually we were recording our normal Sunday podcast that turned into an emergency podcast because about five minutes in the recording, Elon started tweeting about how Trump was on the Epstein files list and we realized we were witnessing a major news story break in real time on the show, which I don't really think has ever happened quite in that manner. So you get to hear our live reactions to all of that happening and some other discussion about some feedback on that Zionism piece and just a really good, I thought, interesting and robust convo. And that came out on Friday or actually late Thursday night. So it didn't come out on a normal Sunday. So in case you missed that, that's in our podcast feed. I think it's my favorite that three of us have recorded together. It's very much worth listening to, so point you to that as well. All right. That's a lot of content. So when you're done with this, there's some more stuff to devour if you're interested, and I think it's worth your time with that. I'm going to send it over to Will for today's main show and I'll be back for my take.
- [04:27]
Thanks, Isa. This is senior editor Will K. Back filling in for John today on the pod. Let's jump into today's quick hits. Number one, the Trump administration brought Kilmar Abrego Garcia back to the United States from El Salvador, where he had been sent in March despite a court order barring his deportation to the country. Abrego Garcia will face charges of unlawfully transporting unauthorized migrants to the United States. Number two, the US economy added 139,000 jobs in May, lower than the total from April, but exceeding economists expectations. Number three, a federal appeals court paused a lower court ruling requiring the White House to allow journalists from the Associated Press to participate in covering President Trump's daily events and travel. The appeals court said that many of the spaces the presidential press pool has access to are effectively invite only and not covered by First Amendment protections. Number four, the Department of Commerce suspended licenses for nuclear equipment suppliers to sell to China's power plants, the latest in a series of sales restrictions on companies doing business with China in recent weeks. Number five, ABC News suspended senior national correspondent Terry Moran after he criticized White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller in a post on X. The outlet said Moran would be suspended pending further evaluation.
- [06:01]
News Reporter
Extraordinary images out of Los Angeles tonight. Hundreds of National Guard troops now on the ground deployed by President Trump even though state leaders say they didn't ask for them and don't want them there. You see members of the National Guard with weapons, with body shields and tear gas canisters, all as protesters gather for Day three of demonstrations against federal immigration rates late tonight. President Trump not ruling out going even further in the days to come. But California's governor pushing back hard, saying the president's hoping for chaos to justify more crackdowns, telling protesters not to give him what he wants.
- [06:37]
Isaac Saul
On Friday evening, protests over immigration arrests in Los Angeles, California sparked violent confrontations with federal and local law enforcement that led President Donald Trump to deploy the National Guard. According to witness videos, federal immigration agents wearing riot gear swept several locations near downtown Los Angeles during the day, leading to the arrest of 45 people. President Trump authorized the deployment of 2,000 National Guard troops to the city on Saturday over the objections of Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass, a Democrat, and California governor Gavin Newsom, also a Democrat. The Los Angeles Police Department, the LAPD confirmed the troops arrived Sunday afternoon as clashes between protesters and law enforcement continued into the evening. Two incidents on Friday, one in the parking lot of a Home Depot in the Westlake neighborhood and another at a clothing store in the Garmin District, turned into violent standoffs between federal officers and protesters. Service Employees International Union President David Huerta, a US Citizen, was injured among those arrested on Friday. At least 11 Mexican nationals were also detained. On Saturday, protesters gathered in front of a Department of Homeland Security DHS office that Customs and Border Patrol agents were using as a staging center in nearby Paramount, California. Protesters lit fires and threw rocks at CBP vehicles while federal agents fired non lethal munitions and tear gas into crowds, leading to tense standoffs into the evening. After more unrest, tensions in the city largely subsided before midnight. President Trump authorized the National Guard deployment under Title 10 on Saturday, directing the troops to support Immigration and Customs Enforcement. This rarely used statute provides less authority than the Insurrection act, and Trump's decision marks the first time a president has deployed the National Guard to a state against the wishes of its governor since 1960. 5. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth confirmed the troops had mobilized that evening, adding he would send active duty Marines to the city if the violence persisted. Governor Newsom called Hegseth's statement, quote, deranged behavior, leading to a back and forth between the two over X. Protests continued on Sunday as thousands of demonstrators gathered around City hall, the federal courthouse and a detention center in the city. Demonstrators also shut down a portion of U.S. 101 freeway, throwing rocks and damaging police vehicles, according to the lapd. Several Waymo vehicles were also set on fire in downtown Los angeles and nearly 60 more people were arrested on Sunday, according to LAPD Chief Jim McDonnell. Mayor Bass called the National Guard deployment, quote, completely unnecessary, end quote, adding that the deployment would, quote, agitate the population. Meanwhile, Governor Newsom said, quote, local law enforcement didn't need help, end quote, and that President Trump set the National Guard to, quote, manufacture chaos and violence. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem defended Trump, saying the administration would not let, quote, a repeat of 2020 happen in a truth Social Post President Trump said he was directing agency heads to, quote, take all action necessary to liberate Los Angeles from the migrant invasion, end quote. The incidents in Los Angeles come amid a push from President Trump to ramp up his plan to deport unauthorized migrants en masse. So today we'll get into what the left and right are saying about the situation in Los Angeles and then Isaac will give his take.
- [10:21]
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [10:24]
Michelle Bernstein
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- [11:31]
Isaac Saul
Mic check one two Are we recording? Hi, I'm Michelle Bernstein, an award winning chef, restaurateur and mom. I have a lot on my plate, including my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. That's why I was prescribed Cosentyx.
- [11:47]
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- [11:48]
Danny Pellegrino
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- [12:26]
Isaac Saul
Your rheumatologist about Cosentix.
- [12:39]
The left criticizes Trump's decision to send the National Guard to Los Angeles, with many arguing it has exacerbated the conflict there. Some say the situation is at risk of spiraling out of control, and others say the protesters are calling out legitimate overreach by the administration. The New York Times editorial board said, quote, trump calling troops into Los Angeles is the real emergency. The National Guard is typically brought into American cities during emergencies such as natural disasters and civil disturbances, or to provide support during public health crises when local authorities require additional resources or manpower. There was no indication that this was needed or wanted in Los Angeles this weekend, where local law enforcement had kept protests over federal immigration raids for the most part under control, the board wrote, which made President Trump's order on Saturday to do so both ahistoric and based on false pretenses, and is already creating the very chaos it is purportedly designed to prevent. Past presidents from both parties have rarely deployed troops inside the United States because they worried about using the military domestically and because the legal foundations for doing so are unclear. Congress should turn its attention to such deliberations promptly if presidents hesitate before using the military to assist in recovery after national disasters. But feel free to send in soldiers after a few cars are set on fire. The law is alarmingly vague, the board said protesters will do nothing to further their cause if they resort to violence. But Mr. Trump's order establishes neither law nor order. Rather, it sends the message that the administration is interested only in overreaction and overreach in the nation. Sasha Abramski criticized Trump's dangerous escalation in la. California's National Guard was federalized briefly during the Rodney king riots in 1992, but that was with the blessing of then Governor Pete Wilson and occurred when large parts of the city were aflame, conditions that clearly do not apply today, abranski wrote. Prior to that, the last time a state National Guard was federalized was in 1957, when Eisenhower took over the Arkansas National Guard in order to protect African American schoolchildren attempting to attend a newly integrated school and Alabama in 1965 by President Lyndon Baines Johnson to protect civil rights marchers in Selma. But the Arkansas episodes were both part of an effort to expand American democracy. Trump's move, by contrast, is aimed at snuffing out the light of popular protest and civil rights. The scale of America's undocumented population may represent a bipartisan failure to meaningfully reform the immigration process over the past generation, but it does not, by any credible definition of the word, constitute a, quote, invasion, abramsky said. America's undocumented are not organized as a military force, do not respond to a single set of political or military leaders, and do not have either the ambitions or the ability to displace the ruling class in the US or or to conquer large swaths of territory. Most of them are simply hardworking, keep your nose to the ground, individuals trying to protect their families and looking for ways to survive in an increasingly unsympathetic world. In the American Prospect, Harold Meyerson wrote, quote, the only disorder the National Guard will find comes from the deporters. Let's be clear about who exactly the agents of Immigration and Customs Enforcement have been arresting in and around Los Angeles. On Friday, they raided downtown LA's fashion district, where seamstresses and retail clerks, some of them undocumented immigrants, are clustered. On Saturday, they made arrests outside a Home Depot in Paramount, a working class LA suburb where day laborers, some of them undocumented immigrants, assembled daily to get to work on small scale construction projects. Meyerson said the microscopically thin pretext behind The Trump administration's deportation policies is that they're targeting criminals and gang members. If you listened to Trump and his government and media minions, you'd think these protesters were rioters. Trump actually said they were rioters who were looting. However, neither ICE nor any of the police agencies on the spot have reported a single instance of looting. And if this was a riot, it sure didn't look like one, meyerson wrote. I led the coverage and did extensive on the ground reporting for both LA Weekly and the New Republic of the huge 1992 LA riots. In the wake of the acquittal of the cops who beat Rodney King, those riots continued for days, with or without the police. This, by contrast, is purely a protest of the presence of federal agents. Alright, here is what the right is. The right mostly supports Trump's decision to use the National Guard, saying he is ensuring lawful immigration enforcement. Some say the riots may be a sign of things to come under Trump's immigration agenda. Others blame Democratic immigration policies for allowing the situation to get to this point. In USA Today, Nicole Russell argued, quote, ice is enforcing the law. Trump is right to send the National Guard to protect them. The images of fires burning and smoke rising above the streets of Los Angeles make America's second largest city look like a war zone. But it's not war. It's what happens when a Republican president enforces the law in a state as far left and as lost as California, Russell said. If California is one version of America and the rest of the country is another version, I know which America I choose. It's the same one a majority of Americans have also chosen. Polls have consistently shown that voters side with Trump and other Republicans on immigration and border security, not the lawlessness and chaos that Democrats and their progressive allies promote. It's important to note that ICE agents aren't just arresting anyone. The Department of Homeland Security reported that the arrests in Los Angeles included people accused of drug trafficking, assault, cruelty to children, domestic violence, robbery and the smuggling of illegal immigrants, russell wrote. Progressive states like California and Democratic leaders like Newsom and former President Joe Biden have ignored our immigration laws. They sent a clear message to people all over the world that the border was open and millions took advantage of that fact to enter our country illegally. Now it is Trump who must enforce the law and restore order. The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote, quote, the deportation wars begin. Rounding up and deporting millions of illegal migrants was never going to go down without protests. But President Trump is determined to do it, and no one can say he didn't tell voters during the campaign. But there are risks for both sides of this dispute, especially for the country if it turns violent and triggers a military response from the White House. The weekend's clashes in Los Angeles are a sign of what could be ahead, the board said. Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller and the restrictionists want to deport everyone to send a message never to come again. But the lost contributions to the US labor force will be great, especially since neither Mr. Miller nor Big labor will tolerate more legal immigration. There's also the risk of unrest. As we've seen in California, it's fanciful to think that raiding restaurants to snatch busboys or Home Depot to go grab store clerks won't inspire backlash, all the more so when ICE acts in a heavy handed fashion, as its agents sometimes do. Some on the pro migrant left will do the same, and that's when things get ugly. The political risks for Mr. Trump will grow if families are broken up, legal migrants are deported by mistake or tales of hardship proliferate, the board wrote. Yet Mr. Trump can fairly say he has a mandate for mass deportation, however unwise, and he has broad legal authority to do it. That seems to include his call out of the California Guard. In the New York Post, Dan Cadman said progressive states that care not for laws or the border are the ones tearing us apart. Once upon a time, and not so long ago, immigration enforcement actions took place at work sites in Los Angeles and many other locations with such regularity that no one would have paused to bat an eye. Now they are the cause of riots and assaults on federal officers and property, while state and local governments slow walk law enforcement responses for something as fundamental as protecting the safety of those officers. Cadman wrote it as if these levels of government have a detached notion of federalism that only runs one way. They can levy demands on the federal government, usually involving massive amounts of money and other assistance, while recognizing no obligations in return. What we are seeing, although it's become all too pervasive in progressive hotspots, is not normal. It is the confluence of permissive policies toward crime and violence in Blue Run cities and states with the flooding of the border that took place over the entire length of the Biden administration. During those four years, anywhere from 10 to 14 million aliens entered the country, either illegally or under transparently bogus programs designed to facilitate their entry, cadman said. This administration is not only on the right track where immigration enforcement is concerned, but that time is indeed of the essence and the stakes are incredibly high. All right, and with that, I'm going to Hand it over to Isaac for his take.
- [22:17]
All right. That is it for what the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take. So today is one of those days where a typical take just feels kind of insufficient. So here are 11 thoughts that I have on the situation in Los Angeles right now. Number one, this was exactly what I was worried about. Since Trump announced his deportation plan, mass civil unrest and confrontations between law enforcement and citizens, they've seemed inevitable. Too many immigrants here illegally are also loved by and embedded in their communities. Too many high profile mistakes have been made by the Trump administration in their deportation efforts. And too many activists are looking for a reason to fight the government. After federal officers arrested Newark's mayor, I expected things to get worse. And they have. Not just in Los Angeles either. Demonstrators are clashing with law enforcement in New York and San Francisco, and I expect protests will continue to spread. Number two, would I be a harebrained lib if I pointed out that so many of these purportedly lazy criminal, leeching on society illegals are getting arrested at work or at their immigration hearings? I wouldn't expect dangerous criminals who are invading our country to be the people ICE is arresting at their jobs or voluntary immigration hearings. I don't know, just a hard thing not to notice. Number three, would I be a cold hearted fascist if I think the police in Los Angeles are right to clear the streets from mobs blocking major highways or lighting cars on fire? I mean, there's protesting and then there's shutting entire city highways down, burning vehicles, vandalism, and so on. Protests seem to be mostly controlled on Saturday, but thousands of people poured into the streets in one of America's largest cities on Sunday, which certainly requires a pretty significant police response. Number four, my belief is that President Trump wants this confrontation. The city of Los Angeles is not seeking his help. The governor of California is not seeking his help. Trump is essentially forcing a city and state to let the National Guard in, which strikes me as a borderline insane provocation. Suggesting that Los Angeles needs the Marines to dispel protesters is definitively insane provocation. But we understand that provocation is the point, right? The last time a president deployed the National Guard against the governor's wishes was when President Lyndon B. Johnson sent service members to Alabama in 1965 to protect civil rights demonstrators. Trump wants the fight. The protesters want the fight, so will get the fight. Even if you believe that Trump is earnestly trying to restore order, which I think is unlikely, but possible, you must be able to concede that violent clashes with hundreds or thousands of protesters is a profound failure in his effort to get things under control. Number five, in case you think that the protests were not mostly peaceful up until Trump's deployment announcement, consider this. On Saturday, the Los Angeles Police Department issued a statement describing the protests as peaceful and commending people for exercising their rights respect responsibly. The Los Angeles Police Department, not exactly an outfit known for taking kindly to civil disobedience. On Saturday night, Trump thanked the National Guard for stabilizing the situation even though it hadn't even gotten there. And then the situation got markedly worse in basically every way on Sunday once the National Guard did actually arrive. Sending the military to confront protests unless local law enforcement is truly overwhelmed like in Kenosha, Wisconsin, is always inflammatory. Number six, I've been to many protests as a reporter and they are never clashes between pure ideologically motivated activists and peacekeeping police officers trying to protect their communities. More often than not, it's a game of chicken, often between young men on both sides who try to push the boundary of how close they can get, how much they can antagonize, how awful of a thing they can say before someone on the other side steps over the line and ignites broad scale violence. I've literally seen protesters taunt police to the point of touching them, at which point a group of officers attack and subdue the protester and two minutes later cops and protesters are talking crap to each other and laughing it up. It looks a lot like that in Los Angeles right now. It's civilized cockfighting really, and I don't take the front lines too seriously. Number seven, having been to these protests, I want to remind people that the city of Los Angeles isn't on fire right now. Trump's claims that the city is under some kind of migrant invasion and spiraling out of control is just totally overboard. News coverage of these events always makes them seem apocalyptic, but most Angelanos probably wouldn't even know what was happening if it weren't for the news. That's how big of a city it is and how contained the protests are. The same was true in New York in 2020. I remember watching CNN broadcasts of an absolute war zone while I sat peacefully in my living room in Brooklyn on a quiet weekday night. Ultimately, like in 2020, damage to the city here could end up widespread, a condemnable and significant reality. But it merits saying that a lot of people in Los Angeles are just living their normal day to day lives right now. Number eight, I wonder if Democrats and leftist protesters have learned anything from 2020 and the Black Lives Matter riots. Will the party try to excuse the worst of the offenders? Will the protesters continue to destroy the city they live in as some form of protest? The scenes out of Los Angeles are reminiscent of those 2020 protests, and you can expect people to react similarly. Protesters waving Mexican flags by burning vehicles will be this weekend's most enduring images that will not endear neutral onlookers to immigrants. Americans rightly want order in their streets. It's stunning to me that so many people on the left and these protesters just don't understand this. Number nine, I have to say I find it rather funny and alarming that the you cannot trust the government crowd on the right is now all in on a bunch of mass unnamed federal agents raiding homes, workplaces and immigration centers to arrest and deport people while the president rails against protesters who are wearing masks. You'd think skepticism of government power would preclude the acceptance of unidentifiable agents conducting mass arrests, even of the people that right leaning skeptics deem threats. But everyone feels immune. Nobody asks themselves, can I prove that I'm a citizen? Number 10, are we starting to see the first signs of buyers remorse in South Florida? Some elected Republicans are starting to speak out against the Trump administration's deportation actions. The co founder of Latinas for Trump said, quote, this is not what we voted for, calling the president's actions inhumane. Representative Maria Alvira Salazar, the Republican from Florida, issued a lengthy statement criticizing the deportation of people with pending asylum cases, asking the administration to focus on criminals, but not people in her district who fled violence to come to South Florida. It's all very leopards ate my face. And number 11, a final message to the protesters. You could just not do this. Not light cars on fire, not throw rocks at police, not try to represent the immigrant community you purport to care about by destroying the city you live in. If you are actually interested in convincing people the administration is overstepping its authority, acting inhumanely or fighting an unnecessary fight, the best way to do that would be to build sympathy for your cause. We know the people who will be most harmed. The shopkeepers whose windows get smashed. The restaurants who can't open because the roads are closed. The small mom and pop shops who lose business because their neighborhoods no longer seem safe. Keep them in your mind before things really spin out of control in a way that makes it impossible to turn back. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [30:18]
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- [30:53]
Progressive Advertiser
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- [31:01]
Danny Pellegrino
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- [31:03]
Progressive Advertiser
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- [31:33]
Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for my take. We're going to be skipping today's your questions answered because this might take out a little bit long, but I'm going to send it back to Will for the rest of the pod and we'll see you guys tomorrow. Peace.
- [31:44]
Thanks, Isaac. Now let's jump over to today's under the radar story. On Friday, a district judge approved a deal between the National Collegiate athletic Association, the NCAA, its major conferences, and lawyers representing all Division 1 athletes that will allow schools to begin paying student athletes directly. The settlement involves three federal antitrust lawsuits that alleged the NCAA was illegally limiting the earning power of college ATH athletes, and it will require the organization to pay $2.8 billion over the next decade to athletes who competed in College Sports from 2016 to the present day. The deal is expected to significantly affect the college sports landscape as schools will now have an annual salary cap that they can pay players across their athletic programs. These payments are separate from earnings athletes can receive from third party name, image and likeness deals, which were legalized in 2021. ESPN has the story and you can find a link to it in today's show notes. Let's move on to some numbers about today's main story. First up, 1992, the most recent year that the Insurrection act has been invoked. President George H.W. bush invoked the act in response to the Los Angeles riots, deploying thousands of members of the National Guard, US army and Marine Corps to the city next 39 that's the number of people arrested in connection with the Los Angeles protests on Saturday and Sunday, according to LAPD Chief Jim McDonnell. 300 that's the number of National Guard troops in Los Angeles area on Sunday, according to the U.S. military's Northern Command. 500 is the number of active duty U.S. marines in prepared to deploy status as of Sunday. 54% and 46% that's the percentage of Americans who approve and disapprove, respectively, of the Trump administration's program to deport immigrants illegally in the United States, according to a June 2025 CBS News YouGov poll. 42% and 30% that's the percentage of Americans who say the administration's deportation program is making people in the US more and less safe, respectively. 53% and 47% that's the percentage of Americans who say the administration is prioritizing the deportation of dangerous criminals and those who aren't dangerous criminals, respectively. 49% and 41% the percentage of Americans who say the administration is attempting to deport more people than expected and about the number of people expected, respectively. And finally, here's our have a nice day story. Following the devastating Los Angeles wildfires earlier this year, a community in Southern California has become the first in the nation to be specifically designed to prevent wildfire spread thanks to new construction from builders KB Home. The fully fire mitigated homes are built to withstand flames and wind blown embers using materials on the outside of the home that won't burn. Quote the fire department would have a really good chance here because all the homes are protected. Steve Ruffner from KB Home said Reuters has the story and again you can find the link to it in today's show. Notes all right, that is it for today's edition. Reminder, if you'd like to support us further, you can consider going on over to readtangle.com and checking out our content on the website. In the meantime, have a great rest of your day day and we'll be back tomorrow with our Tuesday edition. Have a great day.
- [35:20]
Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Zahl and our Executive Producer is John Lowell. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kbach and Associate Editors Hunter Casperson, Audrey Moorhead Bailey, Saul Lindsey Knuth and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was Produced produced by Diet75. To learn more about tango and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@retangle.com.
- [35:57]
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- [36:33]
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