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- [00:00]
John Lal
AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with Fin, we've built the number
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Isaac Saul
one AI agent for customer service.
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John Lal
We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses.
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Isaac Saul
This includes the real world, complex stuff
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John Lal
like issuing a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when Fin
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Isaac Saul
goes up against competitors.
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John Lal
It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund
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Isaac Saul
you up to a million dollars, which. Which I think says it all.
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John Lal
Check it out for yourself at Fin
- [00:29]
Bill.com Advertiser
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- [01:00]
Bombas Advertiser
Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose style. Bombas is Style is for whatever you enjoy. You can run in bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas because with every item purchased, another is donated by Bombas Comfort. Worth calling for. Go to bombas.com audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O-M B A S.com and use code audio. From executive producer Isaac Saul.
- [01:39]
Isaac Saul
This is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast. A place to get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul and on today's episode we're going to be talking about the primary races that happened in the midterm elections. Yesterday we had elections in Arkansas, North Carolina and Texas. We're going to break down exactly what happened, share some views from the left and the right, and then my take. Before we jump in though, a quick heads up that we just published an awesome video on our YouTube channel. I just got done a final watch and some edits on it about measles. It is really fantastic. Shout out to Aidan Gorman who put it together. I think it's a great explainer about the measles virus, what's happening right now in the United States, some of the pros and cons around vaccination and why it's often recommended, what the risks are, why the vaccination rates have changed in the United States in particular. It's super interesting. Kind of a historical deep dive on measles that brings it into the present day and the moment we're living through. So encourage you to go check it out. All right. With that, I'm going to send it over to John for today's main topic and I'll be back for my take.
- [03:12]
John Lal
Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said US Submarines sank an Iranian warship in the Indian Ocean amid ongoing operations in Iran. Separately, the Pentagon identified four of the US Soldiers killed in the conflict, all of whom were members of an Iowa unit in the US Army Reserve. Number two, the Pentagon announced that the United States and Ecuador began joint military operations against designated terrorist organizations in Ecuador. U.S. troops are not believed to be taking part in ground operations, but providing intelligence and support to Ecuadorian forces. Three, President Donald Trump said he will cut off US Trade with Spain after the country rejected a US Request to access its military basis as part of its operations against Iran. Number four, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee facing pointed questions from Republican and Democratic lawmakers about the Trump administration's immigration enforcement actions. Noem will testify before the House Judiciary Committee today. And number five, a federal judge ruled that New York City's congestion pricing can continue, finding that the Trump administration's effort to terminate the program was illegal.
- [04:34]
Bombas Advertiser
Results are in for the first primaries of this year's high stakes midterm elections with Texas sized implications for control of Congress. Four term Republican incumbent Senator John Cornyn is now headed to a runoff in May with State Attorney General Ken Paxton, with neither candidate winning a majority of the vote. Whoever prevails in that bruising battle will face Democratic State Representative James Talarico, who NBC News now projects defeated Representative Jasmine Crockett.
- [05:05]
John Lal
We have a call we can make a projection in North Carolina in the Democratic primary for the US Senate seat in North Carolina that is being vacated by Thom Tillis, who is not running again. The Democrats have chosen Roy Cooper as their nominee for the U.S. senate race in North Carolina. On the Republican side, the Senate primary, the Republican Party in North Carolina. I believe that we can make a projection there as well, but we can project that Michael Whatley, former chair of the Republican National Committee, will be the choice of the Republican party for that U.S. senate Senate race in North Carolina. On Tuesday, voters in Arkansas, North Carolina and Texas voted in party primaries to elect candidates for federal, state and local offices in the 2026 midterms. In the Texas Democratic Senate primary, State Representative James Talarico defeated Representative Jasmine Crockett, while Senator John Cornyn and Attorney General Ken Paxton will head to a runoff in the Republican Senate primary. In North Carolina, former Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Whatley and former Governor Roy Cooper won their respective part Senate primaries. Meanwhile, Senator Tom Cotton won renomination for a third term in Arkansas's Republican state primary and will face farmer Haley Schoffner in the general election. In Texas, Senator John Cornyn has held his seat for four terms but faced a difficult renomination effort against Paxton and the later addition of Representative Wesley Hunt. Cornyn highlighted allegations of Paxton's corruption and bribery while Paxton questioned Cornyn's conservative bona fides. Cornyn currently leads Paxton 41.9% to 40.7%, with more than 95% of the votes tallied. The runoff will be held on May 26. On the Democratic side, Talarico, who has served in the Texas State House since 2018, ran on a faith based populist platform. Crockett, who has served in the U.S. house since 2023, has built a national profile as an outspoken critic of President Trump and the Republicans. With 94% of the votes counted, Telorico leads 52.8% to 45.9%, and most decision desks have called the race in his favor. Crockett conceded on Wednesday, though a dispute remains over ballots cast in Dallas county, where she has a base of supporters. On Tuesday evening, a state judge ruled that polls should stay open two extra hours after voters were reportedly turned away for arriving at the wrong precinct. Texas adopted new voting rules ahead of this primary. Paxton, acting in his capacity as attorney general, then requested that the Texas Supreme Court was block that ruling. It did, ordering votes cast after 7pm to be separated from the main pool. Elsewhere in Texas, state Representative Steve Toth defeated incumbent Representative Dan Crenshaw in the Republican primary for the Texas 2nd district, and Representatives Christian Menefee and Al Green appear to be headed to a runoff in the Democratic primary for the Texas 18th. Green opted to challenge Menefee after his current district, the Texas 9th, was redrawn to favor Republicans. The Democratic primary for the Texas 33rd will go to a runoff between Representatives Julie Johnson and former Representative Colin Allred as the Republican primary for the Texas 23rd between Representative Tony Gonzalez and activist Brandon Herrera. In North Carolina, the race to replace outgoing Senator Thom Tillis is one of the most high stakes Contests of the 2026 Midterms as Democratic leaders see the seat as one of their strongest opportunities to narrow Republicans 53 to 47 majority in the Senate. Cooper, a former two term governor, won the Democratic primary with 92% of the vote, while Whatley also won decisively with 64.6% of the vote. In the state's first congressional district, five candidates sought the Republican nomination to challenge incumbent Representative Don Davis after the state Legislature redrew the district lines in 2025 to improve Republicans chances of winning. Laurie Buckhout, a retired army colonel who challenged Davis in the general election in 2024, was won the GOP nomination. In Arkansas, Senator Tom Cotton faced two Republican challengers in Tuesday's primary, but one renomination with 81.6% of the vote. Elsewhere, Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders ran unopposed for renomination for a second term, as did the state's lieutenant governor, attorney general, auditor and treasurer, all Republicans. Today, we'll explore the results of Tuesday's biggest races with views from the right and left on the Texas Senate primaries and then Isaac's take.
- [09:44]
Isaac Saul
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [09:51]
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- [10:22]
Bombas Advertiser
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- [11:00]
John Lal
All right, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. The right sees Cornyn vs. Paxton as a stark choice for GOP voters. Some say the party faces electoral challenges if it nominates Paxton. Others suggest Talarico will be a formidable opponent in the general election. In USA Today, Nicole Russell said Texas voters are not yet convinced of what they want. I'm not surprised to see a runoff, but as a conservative I'm concerned. It's clear that Texans seem to be torn about which direction they want the GOP to go. Cornyn represents the old guard establishment and Paxton the scandal ridden maga, russell wrote. A runoff between Cornyn and Paxton will likely force President Donald Trump to endorse one of the two. My guess is that he'll choose Cornyn to keep the Senate majority because the incumbent has a better chance of beating the Democratic candidate than the attorney general does. I still think either Cornyn or Paxton will ultimately beat Talarico, but it will be a tighter race now. That's not a bad thing for Republicans. They still need to prove to Texans why conservatism is better for them at a local and national level, Russell said a high Democratic turnout in the presidential midterm year should concern Republicans just as much as the fact that the quality of the candidates Democrats have chosen to represent them has also improved. Talarico is a far cry from the abysmal and unqualified former Representative Beto o'. Rourke. In the New York Times, Kevin D. Williamson asked, is Paxton what GOP voters want? Mr. Trump is sui generis, but what about Attorney General Ken Paxton of Texas? Throughout his career and in the Republican Senate primary, he has explored the outer limits of the troll as Tribune model of politics, williamson wrote. So far, it's been working out pretty well for him. Sure, he forced his way into a primary runoff against John Cornyn, a four term incumbent senator who received tens of millions of dollars of support and a lopsided financial advantage in the most expensive Senate primary on record. All that money didn't close the deal. The fact that Mr. Paxton has come so far without explicit support from the White House cannot be seen as anything other than a victory for the Texas attorney general and his brand of politics, Williamson said. The notion that Ken Paxton would take a sudden turn for the serious and the statesmanlike that he is capable of such a thing is implausible. With Americans now in danger and being killed in the Middle east, the taste for Paxton style performative buffoonery could diminish. But it has been a disappointing decade for those who have been waiting for the Republicans to come to their senses. In the Fort Worth Star Telegram, Ryan J. Ressack suggested the Crockett Talarico race came down to electability and a flawed campaign. Here's the thing about electability, it's something of a self fulfilling prophecy. In the 2008 presidential contest, Barack Obama was widely thought to be struggling. Some Democrats openly feared that the country simply wouldn't vote for a black candidate for president. Then he won the first nominating contest in an almost entirely white state, Iowa. Suddenly he was pretty electable, russik wrote. Talarico, to be clear, is not Barack Obama. He's not even 2018 vintage Beto O'. Rourke. But he is young and delivers a crisp message. Democrats such as Crockett are fond of saying that most Texans are with them, but that ours is a non voting state. A non voting state where turnout keeps rising. Weird, right? Russic said. Crockett got in the race a little late, didn't raise enough money and had a poor campaign organization that got distracted by trifling matters such as ejecting a supposedly unfriendly Atlantic reporter from a rally. Voters don't care about or even notice such incidents, but they say something about a campaign's ability to keep its eyes on the prize. Alright, that is it for what the right is saying. Which brings us to what the left is saying. Many on the left bemoan the continued appeal of Republican candidates in Trump's mold. Some praise Talarico's faith based approach to politics. Others say Talarico can win if Republicans nominate Paxton. In Salon, Amanda Marcotte wrote Texas primary shows that MAGA loves a villain if Texas Republican voters wanted an effective, strong leader who has been successful at pushing right wing policy, they could not do better than Cornyn. As it turns out, that is not what the Lone Star State's GOP primary voters wanted. On Tuesday, a slim plurality of Republican voters picked Cornyn as the nominee in November's Senate race, a dismal result that sends the contest into a runoff against MAGA firebrand Ken Paxton, Marcotte said In today's Republican Party, scandal and corruption don't hurt candidates. To the contrary, being the worst has become a selling point to GOP voters who conflate odious behavior with being a fighter on behalf of their increasingly tribalistic interests. On top of the relentless odor of scandal emanating from Paxton, his actions in office would likely alienate swing voters in a general election. He loves wasting taxpayer money on go nowhere lawsuits that excite bigots and conspiracy theorists but that annoy everyone else, marcotte wrote. There's not a shred of evidence that people like Paxton or Trump are actually warriors for any cause outside of their own ambition. The great irony is that Cornyn and others like him has done far more to advance conservative policies than Paxton, with his flashy but groundless lawsuits, ever has. In Ms. Now, Guthrie Graves Fitzsimmons said James Tallrico is living up to the hype by staying true to his faith. James Talarico's victory in the Texas Democratic Senate primary is bigger than state politics, and Talarico has a lot of powerful qualities. But his unapologetic embrace of his Christian faith sets him apart from other rising Democratic stars, and it could maybe even help reshape American politics, graves Fitzsimmons wrote. For decades, Democrats have ceded religious language to Republicans. Republicans claim the mantle of faith, while Democrats too often respond by criticizing the GOP's God Talk and emphasize the separation of church and state. In the process, millions of progressive Americans have become politically voiceless, despite the fact that the majority of Democrats are people of faith themselves. Talarico changes that. Talarico's message is not about moderating progressive commitments to win over religious conservatives. It is about courage. It's about saying plainly that support for LGBTQ equality, reproductive freedom, public education and church and state separation can flow directly from Christian faith. He's openly Christian and firmly pluralistic, graves Fitzsimon said. That does more than close a messaging gap. Tallarico and those like him can change the terrain. When leaders speak about faith with confidence instead of defensiveness, they show that democracy and devotion are not in conflict. In the new Republic, Perry Bacon argued Talarico can win the Texas state Senate. The broader political environment is ideal for Talarico. Trump's poll numbers keep dipping even in Texas. His approval there is now around 45%, while around half of voters disapprove. The Democratic base is very fired up and swing voters are turning away from the gop, which is why Democrats have done very well in virtually every race across the country since the 2024 election, Bacon wrote. Crockett and Talarico differ in Persona, but they are both liberal Democrats who speak frankly about the radicalism of today's Republicans. That's what the Democratic base is demanding both in Texas and in the country. If Paxton defeats Cornyn in the May runoff, Democrats will have one of their best chances in recent memory to win in Texas. The downside is that if Paxton defeats Cornyn, the most likely outcome is that the Senate gets a new member Paxton, who is a bit more conservative than Cornyn and way, way more corrupt and unethical, bacon said. Perhaps Democrats can't even win Texas, but James Talarico in 2026 could be the Democrats breakthrough in the Lone Star State. Alright, let's head over to Isaac for.
- [19:00]
Isaac Saul
That is it for what the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take but the first round of statewide primaries in the books. The midterm elections are officially here. So those of you who hate election season, I don't know what to tell you. 2026 has arrived. Last night's races decided candidates in the three states and touched on all manner of nationally relevant stories. Even for people not living in North Carolina, Texas or Arkansas, there's a ton to cover. I wrote down 13 thoughts on what we just witnessed. Number one in North Carolina, State Senate leader Phil Berger, the Republican who some consider the most powerful man in the Tar Heel State, is at the center of the state senate race. 26,000 people voted in the Republican primary as of this writing and Berger is down by two votes. With all precincts reporting and the election now coming down to overseas and provisional ballots, the two are currently separated by the choice of a single primary voter. Among many other reasons, this exemplifies why I always encourage you to vote. Number two, Big picture for Republicans, the GOP establishment mostly got what it wanted. In Texas, GOP backed House Republicans took care of business. In North Carolina, the Trump and party backed Senate candidate Michael Whatley won easily. Notably House Republican Dan Crenshaw. The Republican from Texas lost his primary to a Trump branded and Senator Ted Cruz back though not officially Trump backed challenger completing a rather stunning fall from political celebrity. It does not feel that long ago that Crenshaw was doing SNL hits. He lost some credibility in the MAGA movement and it does seem to have cost him. Number three, a big picture for Democrats. The party just let out a big exhale in Texas where James Talarico won over Jasmine Crockett. Talarico is generally viewed as much more electable in a general election for the Senate in Texas, especially if you'll face Republican Ken Paxton, who's headed to a runoff with Senator John Cornyn but looks to be in the weaker position. In North Carolina, Progressives scored wins in state legislative contests while the party's establishment held on in their House and Senate races. The mostly these races went to chalk. If I could define a theme for Democratic victories yesterday, it'd be that economic populism beat out identity politics. That's a relatively new phenomenon in the Democratic Party, but we're starting to see it again and again. Number four, Arkansas is very different from and much less competitive than either Texas or North Carolina. Still, Democrats flipped a GOP House state seat while incumbents governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Senator Tom Cotton cruised to victories in their primaries. Number five Tellarico's win in Texas seems like the obvious choice for most notable event of the evening to me. This was a head to head battle between two decidedly different styles. Talarico is a faith first candidate who spoke in dulcet tones to Texans across the state about returning to a better body politic. He had a message of inclusion, courting everyone from pro Trump Republicans to far left progressives to Joe Rogan. Crockett is a progressive firebrand who called the state's wheelchair bound governor hot wheels and went scorched earth on Trump and MAGA every chance she got. Their ideologies honestly are not that different. Both are staunch progressives, but their styles really are I can't say I'm sad to see the maximally partisan style Crockett embodies take a clear loss. I just don't believe it's good for our country to have more politicians like that. Number six Speaking of Talarico, Crockett last night featured some very unnerving news about the voting access in the Dallas Fort Worth area. This was Crockett's home base and the reversal to stop accepting votes after 7pm After a judge had extended the hours struck me as both unusual and a very bad outcome. To Talarico's credit, he also called for polls to stay open. I think it's fair to blame the entire mess on Republicans. Last fall, the Dallas County GOP voted to change from a county wide system to a precinct wide system for primaries to better enable hand counting of ballots, causing confusion about which precinct voters should show up to. After voters filed complaints about being turned away from what they thought were their precincts, a state judge extended the time the polls would stay open at Crockett's request. That confusion was then exacerbated when Republican candidate and state Attorney General Ken Paxton successfully petitioned the state Supreme Court to reverse the state judge's decision to extend poll hours last night. Number seven Broadly speaking, I am more on the side of making it easier, not harder, for polling places to accept and count votes. I do think the legal basis here for extending the poll hours might be flimsy. Voters being confused about where to go is much less compelling than, say, technical problems with voting machines. But the context is relevant. A major change to rules that clearly confused many voters, causing an inordinate number of people to be turned away. I don't see the downside of adding two more hours to voting time to help address that issue. Number eight Given that Crockett's rise to stardom began when she was fighting for voting rights in Texas as a state representative, it's cruel and sad irony that her Senate campaign years later would end amid controversy over her core constituents having their votes suppressed. And Crockett's telling if Talarico's margin of victory had been smaller, this would have been a major scandal. Number nine Kamala Harris endorsed Crockett, who led Talarico in many different polls in the weeks leading up to the primary. You could have a couple different takeaways from that, but neither reflect well on Harris. Either the endorsement shows poor political instincts from the former vice president or Harris's endorsement actually hurts Democrats in Texas or both. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the Crockett campaign is now having some second thoughts about aligning itself with the former vice president. Number 10 Talarico put up some pretty absurd numbers in Texas blue spots like Austin. One New York City journalist describes his margins as Mamdani in Bushwick numbers with 90% support in certain precincts. Talarico has been all over the big Ben Wall story I've written about in tangle that is lighting up rural southwest Texas politics right now. He went from relatively unknown to star status in a matter of months and benefited from the Streisand effect after CBS canceled his interview with Stephen Colbert. Can he flip a Senate seat in Texas? It would take a very bad candidate running against him, an extremely good campaign and a perfect national atmosphere. So I'll bet against Democrats until they prove me wrong. But if Paxton pulls out what will almost certainly be a bloodbath 12 week runoff, I think Talarico presents the party with the best opportunity to turn Texas blue they've had in decades. Number 11 whom will Trump endorse in the Texas Senate primary runoff? Now we wait. Cornyn has only lost one election in his career, in 1994 for Texas state Railroad Commission. He's a serious politician, a serious fundraiser and a serious Senate operator who has repeatedly won over Texans year after year after year. He has at times broken from Trump and the gop, but he's still a party guy. Conversely, Paxton is a scandal ridden Attorney General who has been indicted on securities fraud charges, impeached on bribery charges, faced whistleblower complaints of illegal activities, made all manner of inflammatory comments, and even faced allegations of infidelity. From a purely political standpoint, their records are night and day. One candidate does nothing but win the other is toxic in almost every way. But the one thing Paxson has in spades is an abiding, unconditional love and support for President Trump. Obviously, that carries a lot of weight for the president, but is that loyalty worth risking a historically reliable Senate seat in Texas? Number 12 Best case scenario for Democrats is that Trump takes his time and lets these two guys, who seem to genuinely loathe each other, fight it out for months, spend tons of money and leave Talaricoin to his own devices to own the spotlight and put the focus on the failures of the Republican state party. Worst case scenario for Democrats is that Paxton submits quickly, especially if Trump immediately endorses Cornyn, putting Talarico toe to toe with a more formidable opponent before an expensive general election. And finally, number 13 in some counties in South Texas, Democratic turnout was higher among Hispanics in yesterday's primary than it was in the 2024 presidential election. In North Carolina, Democratic candidate for Senate Roy Cooper got hundreds of thousands of more votes than the Republican candidates for Senate combined. It's hard to glean too much from numbers like this, but they're probably very encouraging to Democratic strategists surveying the field. All right, that is it for my take. I'm going to send it back to Managing editor Ari Weitzman for staff concurrence and then we'll pass it over to John for the rest of the podcast. See you guys tomorrow. Peace. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [28:21]
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- [29:21]
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- [30:00]
Isaac Saul
Yeah, thanks Isaac. Just one small additional point to add here. In my opinion, I think today's politics provide a platform for the loudest criticisms to be reserved for the people who are close to but not fully aligned with the critic. Paxton is far more MAGA aligned than Cornyn, but if an issue breaks between now and the election that pushes a wedge between Trump and a large swath of Republican voters like, say, a southwestern border wall, I'd suspect that bloc would give far more latitude to Cornyn than they would the more MAGA aligned Paxton. That dynamic will threaten Republican odds just as much as Talarika's victory over Crockett will. That's it. All I wanted to add there. I'll send it back to John for the rest of the pod.
- [30:51]
John Lal
Here's your under the radar story for today, folks. On Tuesday, the Justice Department filed a motion to reverse its request from the day prior to end its cases against four law firms targeted by President Trump. In February 2025, Trump issued a series of executive orders severing the federal government's relationship with firms he claimed engaged in conduct detrimental to critical American interests. Those firms had previously represented clients or hired lawyers who opposed the president. Some firms sued and won their initial challenge, but the Trump administration appealed to the D.C. circuit Court of Appeals, while the Justice Department appeared ready to abandon the case on Monday. It abruptly changed course on Tuesday and will attempt to continue its appeal. Neither the Justice Department nor the White House has commented on the decision. The New York Times has this story, and there's a link in today's episode Description and last but not least, our have a nice day story. HIV has never truly been cured. The virus hides in immune cells, dormant and undetectable, ready to rebound the moment treatment stops. Now, researchers at Weill Cornell Medicine and Rockefeller University have isolated those hidden cells for the first time, opening a potential path to eliminating them entirely. For decades, we have known that HIV hides in long lived immune cells, senior author Dr. Brad Jones said. If we can properly arm the immune system to kill those cells, we may be able to tip the balance toward CURING infection. Weill Cornell Medicine has this story and there's a link in today's episode description alright everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to readtangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. Don't forget we have a new YouTube video up. It would be great if you could head over to our channel and check that out. And while you're there, please subscribe to the YouTube channel as any and all views and subscriptions help us to grow the channel. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is this is John Lal signing off. Have a great day y'.
- [32:52]
Isaac Saul
All.
- [32:53]
John Lal
Peace.
- [32:55]
Isaac Saul
Our Executive Editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive Producer is John Law. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsey Knuth and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diane75. To learn more about tango and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@retangle.com.
- [33:35]
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