Tangle Podcast Summary

Episode: The shootings in Grand Blanc, Michigan, and Dallas, Texas
Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Will Kbach (filling in for Isaac Saul)
Main Guests: John Law (Quick Hits), Audrey Moorhead (Associate Editor, "My Take")

Overview

This episode of Tangle tackles the aftermath and broader context of two recent mass shootings in the United States:

1. A targeted attack at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc, Michigan.
2. A shooting at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility in Dallas, Texas.

Senior Editor Will Kbach and Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead guide listeners through the events, the reactions from across the political spectrum, and the complexities of attributing motives and blame for political and religious violence. The episode aims to synthesize perspectives, caution against simplistic narratives, and reflect on the intersection of nihilism, political polarization, and targeted violence.

Key Discussion Points

1. Summary of the Incidents

(04:47 – 08:14)

• Grand Blanc, Michigan:

  • On Sunday, a former Marine drove a pickup truck into an LDS church during a packed service, opened fire, and set the building ablaze with gasoline.
  • At least four were killed, eight wounded; the attacker was killed by law enforcement.
  • Motive not officially released, but local reports note the suspect's expressed animosity toward the LDS faith.

• Dallas, Texas:

  • On Wednesday, a shooter fired on a transport vehicle arriving at an ICE field office, killing two detainees and injuring another; the shooter died by suicide.
  • Shell casings with anti-ICE messages found nearby.
  • DHS and Dallas FBI characterize it as an attack on federal officers, with early suggestions of left-wing extremist motives.

“Both sides mourn the lives lost in the shootings and share concern over the spate of high-profile attacks across the U.S.”
— John Law, [09:26]

2. Reactions from Across the Spectrum

The Left's Perspective

(09:26 – 14:17)

• Condemnation of political violence and the normalization of gun violence.
• Criticism of government (specifically the Trump administration) for narrative framing and lack of transparency about victims, especially regarding their status as immigrants.
• Calls for renewed gun reform efforts, with religious and community leaders urging action.

Notable Quotes:

“No one who perpetrates political violence deserves even the slightest sympathy, regardless of their ideological background or motives. This is essential to prevent attacks from being effective.”
— Washington Post Editorial Board, as summarized by John Law, [11:20]

"What will it take for us as people of faith and people of goodwill to come together and create a common sense gun culture?"
— Bonnie A. Perry, Detroit Free Press, as summarized by John Law, [13:37]

The Right's Perspective

(14:18 – 17:15)

• Emphasis on the dangers of inflammatory rhetoric surrounding ICE and immigration enforcement.
• Suggestions that left-wing activist language could inspire violence against federal agents.
• Concerns about rising attacks on places of worship and the importance of civil disagreement.

Notable Quotes:

"It isn't too soon for politicians to quit sending such messages to unstable listeners."
— Wall Street Journal Editorial Board, as summarized by John Law, [15:17]

“When we cross a fundamental line between expressing differences respectfully and doing so in a way that inflicts harm... we relinquish both our dignity and our humanity.”
— Norman Hill, Deseret News, as summarized by John Law, [16:42]

Audrey Moorhead’s “My Take”

(17:19 – 24:03)

Audrey Moorhead, Associate Editor, offers a personal and analytical perspective, connecting the emotional resonance of the Michigan church shooting to broader currents of sectarian and political violence.

Key Points:

• Emotional Impact of Worship-Space Attacks:
  • As a Christian, Audrey finds attacks on places of worship disturbingly personal and a profound violation of sacred community space.
  • Reflects on how violence during worship—regardless of denomination—undermines essential unity and peace.

"To hear of that peace being shattered by senseless destruction... makes me feel the despair of violence all the more intimately, even if I don't share their exact beliefs."
— Audrey Moorhead, [17:29]

• Motives and Media Narrative:

  • Cautions against drawing definitive conclusions from early evidence (ex: anti-LDS sentiment of the Michigan shooter, anti-ICE inscriptions in Dallas case).
  • Notes possible political/religious motivations but remarks on evidence of nihilism—a pattern akin to school shootings, but directed at targeted groups.

• The Danger of Politicizing Atrocity:

  • Both left and right rush to frame violence as evidence of the other side's radicalization, missing the convergence of political, religious, and nihilistic motives.
  • Warns that assigning blame purely along partisan lines gives perpetrators the attention and division they crave, escalating polarization and misunderstanding.

"My fear is that the more space we give to these shooters and their motivations, the more we give them exactly what they want and destroy ourselves in the process."
— Audrey Moorhead, [23:42]

• Contextualizes within History:
  • Discusses America’s history of religious and politically motivated violence, including abolitionism and sectarian violence.
  • Observes a modern shift: as overall religiosity declines, quasi-religious fervor is invested in political identities, fueling new sectarian violence.

“We approach the political realm with quasi religious fervor, and like the antebellum church, we set aside our commitments to higher principles, focusing only on how we can attack our enemies.”
— Audrey Moorhead, [22:44]

Data and Context Segments

(28:05 – 29:55)

• Statistics on Religious and Political Violence:
  • 415 acts of hostility against U.S. churches in 2024.
  • 79% of U.S. voters say the country is in a political crisis.
  • Split public perception: 31% say left-wing violence is a bigger problem, 33% say right-wing violence is.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Targeted Violence and Motive:

  "Events like the Michigan shooting... are often motivated by different principles. Rather than desiring the destruction of life itself, these shooters envisage themselves as acting righteously against the wrong kind of people or beliefs."
  — Audrey Moorhead, [18:51]

• On Media & Political Blame:

  "The American media and politicians are champing at the bit to assign the blame for these tragedies to their political opponents."
  — Audrey Moorhead, [21:26]

• On Dignity Amid Division:

  “When we cross a fundamental line between expressing differences respectfully and doing so in a way that inflicts harm, physical, emotional or personal, we relinquish both our dignity and our humanity.”
  — Norman Hill, Deseret News, summarized at [16:42]

Episode Timeline — Key Segments

• Introduction & Overview: Will Kbach, [01:54–03:22]
• Quick Hits: John Law, [03:22–05:34]
• Incident Detail: John Law, [05:34–08:14]
• Reactions from Left & Right: John Law, [09:26–17:15]
• Associate Editor’s Take: Audrey Moorhead, [17:19–24:03]
• Polling & Context Numbers: John Law, [28:05–29:55]

Closing Thoughts

This episode of Tangle stands out for its refusal to take easy partisan sides in the face of horror. Through perspectives from newsrooms, faith leaders, and the editorial team, the episode spotlights the increasingly blurred line between political and religious violence, and the dangers of a media and political sphere eager to assign blame. Moorhead’s closing reflection warns against giving nihilistically violent actors the narrative power they seek—urging listeners instead toward reflection, community, and resisting the pull of sectarian division.

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