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The Undecideds: One Year Later

Tangle

Wed Feb 25 2026

Summary

Tangle Podcast: "The Undecideds: One Year Later"

Date: February 25, 2026
Host: Isaac Saul

Episode Overview

This episode reunites four of the five original "Undecided Voters" the podcast followed throughout the tumultuous 2024 election. Now, a year into Donald Trump’s unprecedented second term, host Isaac Saul and the Tangle team check in on these Americans’ reflections. Each shares how their vote feels in hindsight, what’s surprised or worried them, and what (if anything) is giving them hope as the country faces new and ongoing crises. Through their reactions, the episode explores personal identity, political division, the erosion of norms, and the challenge of balancing hope and disillusionment in today’s political landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage (02:50–06:13)

Election Recap: Saul recalls the events that shaped the 2024 race: Trump’s legal issues and felony conviction, Biden’s withdrawal, Kamala Harris’s last-minute nomination, an assassination attempt, and a final Trump vs. Harris face-off.
Return of the Undecideds: Out of five, four agreed to share their post-election thoughts: Claire (OH), Brian (AZ), Phil (PA), and Diana (FL). Zahid declined to participate.

2. Claire (Ohio): Reflecting on Third-Party Independence

Interview by Ari Weitzman
First-time young voter, works at All Sides, media bias analyst

On Her 2024 Vote (08:37)

Voted third-party; doesn’t regret the choice but is more aware of how her sense of personal identity shaped it.
Quote:

“I do think I miscalculated what Trump’s second term would look like. I think it’s been worse than I thought it would be, for sure.” (08:37)

On Self-Identity and Voting Behavior (10:08–11:43)

Now more aware that personal identity—her self-concept as an “independent thinker” and “writer”—influences her choices as much as objective policy preference.
She’s wary of “blind spots” and trying to be more conscious of them going forward.

Trump Administration's First Year: Highs and Lows (12:18–16:51)

Most Disturbing: Crackdown on protestors and immigrants—specifically, the "Ozturk case" (young woman detained by masked officers), ICE-linked shootings, and restrictions on pro-Palestinian speech.
Foreign Policy: Appreciated the Middle East ceasefire but is troubled by chaos, intervention in Venezuela, and lack of clarity on intervention choices.
Memorable Moment:

"I didn't expect that we would put our own American lives at risk by intervening militarily as much as we have." (17:51)

Evolving Priorities & Hope for Midterms (18:32–21:53)

Focused on ICE, free speech, and affordability.
Still seeking a “realist” leader who can bring the country together, listen, and move past culture wars.

Fears & Hopes (22:13–23:47)

Worry: Crackdown on speech, due process, increasing deportations of even US citizens.
Hope: In American protest movements and democratic engagement.

“It gives me a lot of hope…this is a great representation of how democracy works…people standing up in whatever way makes sense to them.” (22:13)

3. Brian (Arizona): Conservative Christian Searching for Consistency

Interview by Magdalena Bokova
Teacher, father, deeply Christian; voted Trump out of value alignment

On His Vote & First-Year Assessment (29:41)

Does not regret voting for Trump; chooses “the problems I’d rather have” despite acknowledging ongoing issues.
Quote:

“It’s definitely the lesser of the two evils...Trump and the Republicans, even though they’re still far from what I would consider optimal and ideal, I have to stay on that side because of my values.” (31:28)

Trump’s Style and Substance (32:39–33:56)

Applauds the administration’s speed and decisive action, particularly on border and immigration, but dislikes the “obnoxiously aggressive” lack of grace and statesmanship.

“Things move at a pretty quick pace...but boy, could they be done with so much more grace and poise…It just seems kind of ugly.” (32:39)

Local vs. National Impact (34:14)

Despite proximity to the border, sees little change locally but is watching national headlines.

Defining Incidents: ICE Shootings & Division (35:38)

Troubled by events like the Minnesota ICE shooting and the polarity of American reactions.

“It definitely surprises me that the two views are so diametrically opposed on what we define as illegal immigration...” (35:38)

Long-Term Hopes: Christian Worldview & Historical Optimism (38:17–49:04)

Wishes for a national leadership more closely aligned with Christian worldview—not just policies that please Christians, but deeper motives.
Sees the death of Charlie Kirk as galvanizing the Christian community’s unity through prayer rather than protest; skeptical that any unity with the left is possible soon.
On History and the Next Generation:

“The church and Christianity has always thrived under persecution...my job here is to equip them with the tools...the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.” (46:11–49:04)

4. Phil (Pennsylvania): Center-Right, Character-First, Neither Party Fits

Interview by Will K
Pastor, professor, longtime Republican now alienated by Trump; wrote in candidate

On His Vote & Political Dislocation (55:10)

Feels “homeless” between parties—remains center-right, votes independently, and stands by his refusal to endorse Trump or Harris.
Quote:

“Trump has turned out to be in some ways the worst-case scenario of himself...He comes in with a sledgehammer or a flamethrower instead of a laser or a scalpel.” (55:10)

Defining Issue: Expansion of Executive Power (64:57)

Sees Trump’s overuse of presidential power as the most dangerous precedent—surpassing even previous expansions by Obama and Biden.
Worries about a “dysfunctional Congress” enabling near-unchecked executive authority:

“He didn’t create it, but he sure is using it...the precedent being set for the next generation is very disturbing.” (64:57)

On the Parties and Hopes for Moderation (67:23–69:55)

Desires a centrist shift but believes both parties increasingly punish compromise.
“Politics is…figuring out how to solve our problem through compromise and creativity. And that kind of politics is a thing of the past.”

On American Division, Family, and Dialogue (76:47)

Reports deep generational and cultural splits but takes hope in nuanced personal conversations.

“We can talk to each other and we share a common political vision…old-fashioned Republicans and Democrats who could still cross the aisle...” (76:47)

Hopes for the Future (82:59)

Hope is grounded in cultural renewal—truth-telling, open debate, and moral character—not in national politics.
Praises media like Tangle for fostering genuine pluralism.

“Ultimately, I think the things that make a society have more to do with issues of character and the ability to be truthful and to engage in meaningful dialogue...” (82:59)

5. Diana (Florida): From Reluctant Republican to Disillusioned Independent

Interview by John Law
Retired teacher, lifelong moderate—voted Harris reluctantly

On Her Vote and Today’s Regret (93:50)

Glad not to have voted for Trump; upset at his re-election and what she perceives as moral and institutional decline.
Quote:

"There are things that have happened that have been beyond my wildest dreams that I just never even thought could happen...things have exceeded my expectations to the negative." (93:50, 98:26)

Main Concerns: Immigration, Authoritarianism, Ethics (94:59–98:26)

Deeply disturbed by mass ICE raids, the treatment of immigrants, and the removal of expert input from government.
Sees Trump as “trying to turn himself into a king,” surrounding himself with only loyalists and silencing dissent.

On Policy (102:57)

Acknowledges the need for better immigration enforcement, but not the methods used.
Appreciates some global outcomes (stock market gains, less drama in Israel/Gaza) but is troubled by the overall means and tone of the administration.

Division, Dialogue, & Personal Experience (105:18–108:09)

Lives in pro-Trump area; tries to keep politics out of social spaces but witnesses little sympathy for affected immigrants.
Draws empathy between herself and marginalized women (e.g., ICE shooting victim in Minnesota), expressing fear and sadness.

Worries and Hopes for the Future (115:20–119:32)

Worries: Rollback of vaccines/public health protections, erosion of social services, and authoritarian drift.
Hopes: The pendulum will swing back toward the center; believes a quieter “middle” majority exists and may assert itself.

“There’s a lot more people in the middle like me than there are anybody else…they’re the ones that get all the publicity because they make all the noise.” (118:07)

Notable Quotes & Moments

Claire, on how political identity shapes choice:

“Voting has a lot less to do with the people running and a lot more to do with who you conceive yourself to be and who you most identify with.” (08:37)
Phil, on Trump’s approach:

“Even when he's shooting in the right direction, he shoots a bazooka, not a rifle." (55:10)
Brian, on unity:

“The only way that can be resolved is when the correct worldview prevails and people are willing to finally submit to their Lord...I don’t think there’s going to be any unity anytime soon.” (43:35)
Diana, on hope:

"I’m hopeful that maybe there are more people in Congress that get along and that talk and try to work things out than there are now." (118:07)

Important Timestamps

02:50: Isaac Saul introduces the “Undecideds” series and stakes of the episode.
08:37: Claire reflects on voting third-party and Trump’s second-term reality.
12:18–18:32: Claire discusses Trump’s actions on immigration, free speech, and foreign affairs.
29:41: Brian on voting for Trump, value alignment, and ‘lesser of two evils’ logic.
32:39: Praises Trump’s swift action but critiques lack of grace.
38:17–49:04: Brian on faith, the Kirk shooting, unity, and long-term optimism.
55:10: Phil on his write-in vote and being politically “homeless."
64:57: Phil sees executive power as the era’s defining, dangerous shift.
93:50: Diana describes regret, fear, and feeling politically detached.
102:57: Diana points to immigration as a necessary issue, but derides the approach.
115:20–119:32: Diana’s specific worries (public health, instability) and cautious hope for a more balanced future.

Episode’s Tone and Takeaways

The conversations are frank, thoughtful, and at times raw. Regardless of political persuasion, each participant expresses serious anxiety about division, institutional dysfunction, and threats to American norms. Yet, each also clings to some vision—however modest or qualified—of hope: through protest, cultural renewal, intergenerational teaching, or the future possibility of moderation and dialogue.

Isaac Saul’s closing words:

“The goal of the Undecideds was never to tell you who to vote for or what to think...it was to provide perspective, to listen to people examine their own political beliefs, reflect on tough questions, and to make space for opposition and nuance in a political culture that often leaves very little room for it.” (120:06)

Listen If…

You want to hear honest self-reflection from Americans who don’t fit neatly into partisan boxes
You’re seeking insight into how regular people process (and survive) an exhausting era of politics
You care about the personal side of democracy—identity, conscience, hope, and fear—in a time of historic upheaval

For more:
Tangle’s daily newsletter – readtangle.com

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Transcript

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John Law (2:13)

Magdalena Bokova (25:45)

See Terms Better Help Online therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax. This is Magdalena, CEO of Tangle and in 2024 I spent time speaking with Brian. He's a married, 30 something conservative Christian father of two living in Arizona. Brian comes from a deeply rooted faith tradition and his family owns a leather bound bible making business, though he's recently begun work as a teacher. He's at the very same school his mother teaches at and he shared he was excited his daughter would soon attend the very same school. Throughout the lead up to the election, what stood out most to me about Brian was the way he approached politics, both through a deeply philosophical lens and that as an everyday American, he often found himself grappling with the fact that there wasn't a perfect fit or a clean solution to the questions he was asking about his values, his community and the country. Bryan wrestled with a feeling that no candidate fully embodied the conservative Christian values he hoped to see reflected in national leadership. However, he felt ultimately that President Trump came closest to those values and that's who he voted for in 2024. In this follow up conversation with Brian shared his deep concern over the country becoming increasingly divided. He spoke about the assumptions people often made about conservative Christian men and reflected on the real world impact Charlie Kirk's death has had on his community. He also reflected on the first year of Trump's second term where his expectations were met, especially around immigration enforcement and the border where they weren't, and how he's thinking about faith, leadership and belonging in a country that feels increasingly more and more divided. He also shared where he finds hope in the long view of history. This is my conversation with Brian. Brian, it's nice to sit here virtually and talk to you again. It's been over a year since we last spoke. Before we dive in, how have you been?

Diana (40:41)

That was a hard one because I don't have any ties to Charlie Kirk personally, but my sister play. She's a professional musician, and she played guitar for his weekly. They were like weekly turning TPUSA events at a church that she plays at. She was always kind of in Charlie's proximity and was rubbing shoulders with Charlie. She didn't know him personally all that well, but was around him a lot. So when we found out what happened with Charlie, it hit our whole family hard because we know how close in proximity he was to us and we understood what he stood for. So it had a big effect on my family. It had a big effect on our Christian community. And the effect you can really see, you highlight the response of the death to Charlie compared to the death of, say, the lady who got shot up in Minnesota. Both are tragic and the responses are very, very telling. The Christian community rallied together and started praying more together, petitioning God to continue to bring forth his plan and to allow what needs to have happen, happen. And there's a lot of love and support and a lot of faithfulness being spread and a lot of mourning, of course. But the striking thing is, where are we going now? How are we going to respond to this? It's not with violence, it's not with protesting, it's with prayer and it's with an attitude that we're here on mission, on purpose, doing what needs to be done. That's kind of the response within our communities that has been massive. And of course, we had the funeral service here in Glendale, which my wife and I almost attended, but we ended up not attending for. I think we got sick around that time. But that funeral service was very telling as well. And seeing all the people that surrounded him and his influence and all the rest, so definitely made huge shockwaves in the Christian communities here, specifically in Arizona and across the country within our. The people we identify with. We've seen a lot of response. So definitely a big issue.

Diana (46:11)

Yeah, this is really where my, my everyday life and politics. This is kind of where the rubber meets the road for me. It has to do with history. It has to do with more the big picture rather than just the little details and things here and there. The details do matter. But in order to stay sane, I keep looking at the big picture thinking, okay, history is going somewhere. I believe God's in control of history. He's bringing it to a point. And that point that he has in mind is good. It accomplishes his purpose, it glorifies him and it does what needs to get done. And so my day to day is all about looking forward to the future and what kind of a world, or rather what of kind. I am teaching my daughter and her generation in terms of how, how do you go about fixing what needs to get fixed. That's why I became a teacher, is because I believe that the changing of this world is in the hands of the future generations. And my job here is to equip them with the tools to do what they need to do. And will it get worse before it gets better? I think so. That's certainly how it has been in history. But that doesn't concern me that things are going to get worse before they get better. Because the church and Christianity has always thrived under persecution. I mean, you look at early Christian history, early Church history, when most intense persecution on The Christians in 303 to 313 AD, you see Rome trying to extinguish Christianity altogether. And what happens? It continues to grow, it continues to explode, and it continues to go where God intended to go. So will that happen here? I have no idea. But if it does, I'm hopeful because the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church. So on the day to day, that's where my mind is at. It doesn't, you know, the details matter. But what really needs to inform how we view the details is our worldview. Where is history going? Is it going towards a good intended destination? If not, then people have no hope, I don't think. But if it is and if that destination is good, I think there's all the reason to persevere and to hold on for as long as possible, even if it means you lose your life for it. So yeah, my day to day is filled with all of that in my head.

Phil (55:10)

Well, the way I handled the dilemma I faced is that I refused to vote for either candidate, which is not an action I prefer taking, but it was, it was standing up and saying, I'm, I'm not going to be forced to vote for either one because I think neither are qualified. And so I, I stand by that. There's been nothing that has happened that would change my thinking. And my general response is that, you know, I, I'm a, a right leaning, center, right leaning Republican, a classic liberal who's finding it difficult to locate himself in the modern Republican Party, but not in the least bit interested in participating in the current nature of the Democratic Party. So I'm a person without a home. And that remains the case. I think Trump has turned out to be in some ways the worst case scenario of himself. Who he was the first time, I think was held in check perhaps by the fact that it was the first time and he seemed less able to mobilize people to personal loyalty. He seemed a bit more controlled in terms of the exertion of power. And that's all gone by the wayside. And so the things I was most concerned about have become true. Now I find myself, I mean, there are other questions, but I find myself in this strange place that I felt and I feel like there have been some directional issues in the American political culture, in the academic culture, in the news media culture, a shift in a, for lack of a better word, a woke direction that needed correction And I think it's the reason why Trump was elected that enough people were fed up, frustrated, feeling like we need some change. But Trump's the kind of guy who, even when he's shooting in the street the right direction, he shoots a bazooka, not a rifle. He comes in with a sledgehammer or a flamethrower instead of a laser or a scalpel. And. And so even when I think, for example, you know, tightening up the borders, doing something about the immigration problem, okay, that's the right direction, what we're witnessing now, very few people, I think, at least that I'm in touch with, can get behind, except those who are most doctrinaire and supported him. Doge is aiming at a good thing in the sense of we have an incredible amount of waste, but it was a stage show. It. It didn't accomplish anything long term except to shift the ethos. There is. Yeah, they're talking about a vibe shift. There's a shift in ethos, whether it's DEI or immigration or issues of. Of assertion of, you know, power. And some of that might be acceptable, but of course, the way he's managing it is just overdone, everyone. So, I mean, the latest thing. I mean, maybe we'll get into this. What's happening in Venezuela is classic Trump, and there's some really good things about it and some really scary things.

Phil (60:23)

this is. That's a hard question to answer, because it is the nature of Donald Trump to suck all the air out of the room and get all of the attention, media's attention, all of the time. I mean, he did that in his first term, but he's done it, if it's possible, even more so. So actually, my response is a kind of weariness. I can't keep up. And it takes a lot of attention to keep up, because my relationship to Trump and the current Republican Party is, and this is true in the Democratic Party, I can't take anything at face value. The reported reasons for doing something, the narration of the story of what was done and what it affected, and this is one of the reasons I appreciate Tangle so much, is it doesn't give me an already digested interpretation. It does a good job of giving me, okay, what are the Polarized interpretations and then what do I do with them? And that takes a lot of time. I couldn't even begin to do it without the help of Tangle or a place like Dispatch, which is a new source that I appreciate. Ones that are more centrist and seem to have an ability to hear both sides and not discount them, but to present them in their own light and then critically engage them. And to do that myself, which is what I want to do because I, I don't align, I don't wear either jersey. I don't wear the Democratic jersey, I don't wear the Republic current Republican MAGA jersey. And so I have to think independently. So all that to say I don't know that there's like one, two, three issues. I mean, obviously immigration has been a big deal, obviously Doge has been a big deal. But I think what has become the biggest is the assertion of presidential power in ways that, whether legal or not, I mean, obviously recently the Supreme Court finally ruled on the illegality of sending the National Guard in to Chicago. But that takes so much time. But even whatever their ruling is, it's not in tune with the spirit of the Constitution, which has an active Congress legislating an active Congress making decisions, making decisions about whether we'll go into war or not. And right now we don't have, we have a polarized Congress legislative branch that can't really make any decisions which creates this space for unparalleled executive power. Of course, that exertion of power began with Obama and continued in Biden, and as the case with Trump has been magnified even more. He didn't create it, but he sure is using it. So to me that's probably the most dangerous long term thing, is that he is rewriting how presidents function. And the genius of our Constitution, the thing that kind of keeps diverse people together and keeps them talking to each other is in part are checks and balances. And we have a dysfunctional Congress and it's creating an opportunity for a disproportionately powerful president. And even if he's doing the right thing, whatever that might be, he just does it in the wrong way. And the precedent being set for the next generation is very disturbing from my perspective.

Phil (82:59)

Okay. I mean, my hope does not rest on who gets elected president. I have greater hope in local government than I do in national government. And I am hopeful that Congress can find a voice that would give me hope. But ultimately, I think the things that make a society have more to do with issues of character and the ability to be truthful and to engage in meaningful dialogue with people with whom you disagree, but on a basis of a shared value of truth and the ability to actually say there is something that's true and there's something that's false. There is right and there is wrong. Can we reach an agreement and build from there? I think the dethroning of, I consider it a kind of soft totalitarianism of dei, which doesn't allow an alternative voice, a more conservative voice to be spoken in a classroom or on faculty. Those situations, one positive result of the last decade, let's say, or the last few years, has been that that's been pointed out and there's been an uprising of opposition that hopefully reveals that something's not right here and that gives people voice. I'd like to see professors who have had to be silent to get tenure when they disagree be able simply to speak up and not necessarily persuade everyone, but be allowed to have a different point of view. I, I'd like to see newsrooms hire people with whom they disagree and give them voice. What tangle is doing and, and it's, it's getting noticed is the kind of thing that needs to happen in newsrooms. It's the kind of thing that needs to happen in university context. And this goes both ways, right or left. I mean, the problem now is that the right is trying to take control and control the narrative equally without engaging in meaningful conversation. That's one of the things I'm saddened about J.D. vance or Marco Rubio. What I liked about both of them is they were reasonable and intelligent and could articulate their point of view and could engage in a debate in a coherent way. I'm hoping that when Trump moves aside the ethos of that kind of dialogue and that kind of decision making process, it can find room to grow and we could get this thing moving in a conversational direction. So. But I'm going to focus my energies, quite frankly, on calling the next generation to not live by lies. Folks in Eason talks about this. Be willing to say what you believe and hear what another person believes and articulate it, to give reasons and not to shout down the other person or ignore the other person or discount the other person. That's on a cultural level. Until we have that, we're not going to make any political progress. So that's where my hope lies. And I'm doing what I can in the spheres I live in to engage in open, meaningful conversation with my children, with my students, with my neighbors. And sometimes it works. In fact, it works more often than it doesn't. But then I guess I'm fortunate.

John Law (90:25)

Hey everybody, this is John Lal, Executive producer. In early 2024, I spoke with Diana, a 67 year old retired substitute teacher living in Florida for most of her adult life, Diana identified as a Republican, but by the time we met her, she described herself as an independent, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and got guided above all by empathy for how people's lived experiences shape their beliefs. Diana has never seen politics in black and white. Over the years, she voted comfortably for Republican candidates like John McCain and Mitt Romney. But the rise of Donald Trump complicated that sense of certainty. In 2016, Diana reluctantly voted for Trump, despite serious misgivings about his character. It wasn't a vote she felt good about, more a choice between two opposite options that left her feeling uneasy. Four years later, after a presidency she experienced as chaotic and exhausting, she voted for Joe Biden, describing that decision as clearer and emotionally easier. As the 2024 election approached, Diana once again found herself conflicted. She worried about the age and capacity of both Biden and Trump and felt torn between frustration and concern. She told us that if Nikki Haley had been the nominee, she would have supported supported her without hesitation. But for much of the year, facing another uncertain and unsatisfying choice, she wasn't sure where she'd land. By the time November arrived, though, Diana felt clear about her decision, and she ultimately cast her vote for Kamala Harris. From our first conversation, it was clear to me that Diana hadn't been pushed to feel disengaged or cynical. Like so many people in our current political climate, she was thoughtful, reflective, and trying to make the best decision she could in a moment that felt heavy and complicated. Now, one year into President Trump's second term, we're checking back in with Diana to hear how she's been, how she feels about the choice she made in 2024, and how the past year has shaped the way she thinks about politics, leadership, and the future. What worries her and what still gives her hope. This is my conversation with Diana. All right, we are here with Diana from our previous Undecided Voter series. Diana, how are you doing?

Brian (98:26)

No, and I would have to say they exceeded my expectations to the negative. I thought it was probably going to be pretty rocky, but I never thought it would be like this. I mean, it's been really bad. I mean, like I said, immigration, what's going on with all that? You know, just invading, you know, invading countries willy nilly. I mean, you know, Maduro, okay, yeah, he was a bad guy, but is that really the way we want to do things? I mean, you know, bombing boats that are out I. I just. It's just. I. I just can't believe the things that he's doing, you know, and even down here, like the Gulf of America, I mean, give me a break. Just some of these stupid things. Everything that they're doing against the LGBT community, and a lot of this is Florida is really just latching on to everything. I mean, the books that are being banned, what is not being allowed to be taught in schools anymore, what has to be taught in schools anymore. It's just really bad. I think a lot of people are afraid to say things that they really think because, you know, you just don't know what's going to happen. And I have no respect for Congress whatsoever. You know, the Republicans just, you know, nobody will stand up to him. They're just. They're more concerned with their jobs than they are with what's going on in the country. Now, there's. There's a couple exceptions, but, you know, I just. I don't even. I don't even consider myself a Republican anymore. I just call myself an Independent and just leave it at that. I know, you know, when the next election comes around, I'm going to have to make a decision one way or the other, probably if I want to vote in a primary. But it's. I mean, I was in Europe three times this summer, and it was. It's the first time I ever felt kind of like, yeah, do I really want to? I mean, it's pretty obvious I'm an American, but do I really want to say this is where I'm from? You know, every time I see a Canadian, I almost want to say, I'm sorry. I'm sorry

Brian (102:57)

Well, I think, you know, immigration, we did need to get a handle on that. There are too many illegal people coming into this country. It's not good for us, but it's not good for them either. And I think, you know, if what we need is, is we need more people at the border, we need more judges to, you know, adjudicate these things. We need things like that. And so, yes, he got the numbers down, but he didn't do it in a very good way. I'm trying to think off the top of my head. I can't think of anything. Probably, probably when we'll finish this podcast, something will come up. You know, tariffs, I don't think that they were necessary or the way he went about it. Maybe, I think maybe to a certain degree they were good because maybe some countries haven't been paying their fair share and like Europe with NATO and all that, they all seem to be stepping up a little bit more now. But I think it could have been done in a different manner. Things do seem to be doing better in Israel and Gaza a little bit. Things seem to be calmer, so maybe that's good. But I do think some of his ideas are good. But now I can't even think what off the top of my head they are because I've just been in a very negative mode with all this. But I, I Still think even with the good things he's done. Well, I guess the only good thing I can tell you from our viewpoint is the stock market's been doing really, really well. So as a retired person, our investments are great. But quite frankly, I would rather, I mean, for the sake of everybody, I would give that up. If we could have more peace, if people, more people could afford health insurance, if you didn't have to decide between food and drugs, and if people could walk down the street without worrying about being arrested, kids could go to school without worrying about, you know, are my parents going to be there when I get home? And we've seen a fair amount of that in Florida where they've had to send crisis counselors into schools after an ICE raid because, you know, kids, parents are gone.

Brian (105:42)

Well, I live in a very heavily pro Trump area, so basically what people are doing is kind of not talking about it. I think a lot of the really pro Trump people are. I think a lot of them are kind of like, maybe this isn't quite what we voted for and they don't want to admit it. Some things people have been talking about, you know, we've seen some ICE raids, some places we've seen, you know, one of the companies that our condo community uses apparently lost some employees through this. And it's just, you know, all of these people that I know or that I see are extremely hardworking people. They do jobs that none of us want to do. And, you know, people say immigrants are taking our jobs. They're not. They're doing what we don't want to do. I want to see somebody come down here and trim bushes and clean up palm trees in 110 degree heat. When you have to wear a hat, long sleeves, long pants because of the insects, because of the heat of the sun, and do this day after day after day and do it with a smile on your face. You know, these people, there are teachers, there are nurses, they work in our stores and Cape Coral. We don't have a lot of crime down here. You know, they, they kind of live amongst us. I mean, there's like, you know, different housing areas and everything where it seems like, you know, maybe a lot of, a lot of Latinos live but, and maybe they're smaller houses, but they're neat, they're well kept. And the one thing I really can't understand all of this is, you know, there's all this stuff. We don't want the Muslims, we don't want this, we don't want that. We know most Latinos are Christians, a lot of them are Catholics, they're Christians. So isn't this the kind of people we would like to come into our country? And they're all, everybody that I see is, is very hard working and they appreciate being in this country. And it just, it really hurts me to see this. It's just we are all human beings and how can you just do this to another human being? I just don't understand it.

Brian (108:20)

Well, there have been some comments. I'm in charge of the water aerobics program at our, and my theory is exercise areas are non political. We don't talk about it, we're here to have a good time and blah, blah, blah. And there have been occasional something about talking about, was it an immigrant? I bet it was an immigrant. And I just, it kind of, and move on. It's like, change the subject or whatever. And I've said a couple of times, you know, we're not talking about this here. Most people agree with me. I get a couple people that are like, well, gee, why can't we talk about this here? I mean, after Charlie Kirk was murdered, not that I, I mean, I think it was horrible, but I don't think he was the demigod that people put him up to be. He has said some horrible things. I don't think you engage people by saying prove me wrong or by, you know, by being confrontational. I mean, that's not the way to have a dialogue. And anyway, some of the things he said, and one girl came back one day, she goes, well, have we talked about Charlie Kirk yet? And I said, we're not talking about Charlie Kirk. She goes, well, why not? I said, because this is water aerobics and blah, blah, blah. You know, we're not doing that here. And she was a little upset. But as far as immigrants, I know there's been some comments about, yeah, so, and so, you know, we heard, you know, this company lost some people and that company lost some people. And, but I'm not sure how many people are more Concerned with, like, how this affects that. Like, you know, well, my house isn't going to get cleaned on a regular basis or whatever. I don't know. But a lot of people do not seem to be very sympathetic, which kind of. Thinking about what happened in Minnesota, when I think about the woman that got shot, I mean, I'm thinking, that could have been me. I'm thinking she probably all she'd ever had in her life was a traffic ticket. She got in the middle of this, she got flustered. She's scared. All these people are yelling at her, and it's like, what do you do? It's like. It's like you'd almost be, like, panicked, you know, she says, well, you know, I'm. It puts her window, you know, I'm. I'm gonna pull out, and I'll probably be like, okay, I'm gonna get out of your way. I don't know what's going on here. And she hits a guy, and so he shoots her in the head. I mean, that could have been anybody. It could have been your wife dropping your child off after dropping your child off at daycare. It could have been me. It could have been anybody. And I just. Okay, next question.

Brian (115:25)

Okay, the one thing that worries me about the future is with what's going on with the whole vaccine thing. I am 69 years old. I'm very healthy. But if it gets to the point where I can't get a flu vaccine or I can't get a pneumonia vaccine, or people. Children are no longer being inoculated against some of these diseases and I would get them, how easy is it going to be for me to fight them off? And will I end up. Or other people my age end up dying early because we cannot get the vaccines and children cannot get the vaccines because these vaccines not only keep them healthy, but it helps keep them from passing diseases on to other people. I don't know if you. Hopefully you haven't had this, but if, like, you know, like, if your parents or somebody would or would, you know, have some type of cancer and if your children are not vaccinated against certain things, the oncologist will tell you you cannot see your grandchildren because your immune system is very compromised right now. You know, there's going to be a lot of people going through this. I don't know that maybe polio might come back, measles might come back, rampant mumps. I mean, for an adult male to get mumps is a really serious thing, you know, that you really don't have to worry about now. But that. That is. That is really one of my biggest worries. And I do that. That's my biggest, I would say, real worry. I mean, kind of like worries that are, like, out there are like, will we end up being taken over by China or Russia or. And I don't worry, you know, will there be a nuclear bomb at some point? You know, now that we've invaded Venezuela, will Russia or somebody try to invade Florida? I mean, you know, we're a peninsula. We're kind of way out there. You know, it be pretty easy to kind of overtake us down there in southwest Florida by boat or. Or whatever. You know, not so easy for you up in Colorado. But so, so. But the main thing, the real worry I have is, is. Is the health worry down the line. And, you know, what. What's going to happen, you know, to people and to children there.