Tangle Podcast: “The U.S. Measles Outbreaks”

Host: Ari Weitzman (Managing Editor, guest hosting for Isaac Saul)
Date: January 28, 2026

Overview

This episode of Tangle delves into the ongoing measles outbreaks in the United States, exploring their connection—or lack thereof—to declining vaccination rates. The show provides perspectives from across the political spectrum as well as from medical experts, before offering Ari Weitzman’s measured take on the vaccine debate, arguing directly against vaccine skepticism with nuance and evidence. The episode underscores the public health challenge posed by misinformation and declining trust in traditional vaccination practices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scope and Severity of the Measles Outbreak

[05:35–09:26]

• South Carolina is experiencing a massive outbreak: 789 confirmed cases, 558 more quarantined, and over 150 children hospitalized.
• Fatalities: First U.S. measles deaths in a decade—two children and one adult (all unvaccinated).
• Since January 2025, at least five states have had 100+ cases: Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, and South Carolina.
• U.S. CDC: 2,255 total U.S. cases in 2025 (worst year in over two decades); 416 new cases across 14 jurisdictions in the first few weeks of 2026.
• Without 12 consecutive months free of sustained transmission, the U.S. could lose its “elimination” status.
• Root cause: Over 93% of 2025 cases happened in people who were unvaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown.

“Leaders at the Department of Health and Human Services have downplayed the current outbreaks. ‘It’s just the cost of doing business with our borders being somewhat porous for global and international travel,’ Ralph Abraham, principal deputy director at the CDC, said.” — News Reporter / Analyst [08:22]

2. Political and Social Context: A Nation Divided

[11:10–19:56]

What The Left Is Saying

• Outbreak is a “public health tragedy” (Leana S. Wen, Washington Post).
• Surge of anti-vaccine sentiment linked to disinformation, notably from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.), now in a leadership role at HHS.
• Legislative efforts: At least 15 states propose loosening vaccine requirements; Texas alone saw 20+ such bills in 2026.
• Younger generations may underappreciate the danger, having never seen measles’ effects.

"It’s been said that vaccines are a victim of their own success... One can only hope that parents learn this lesson before more children are infected and suffer the consequences." — Leana S. Wen (Washington Post) [11:24]

• Disinformation has led to a “shameful mass propaganda campaign unfolding in real time... championed by our top health official.” — Dan Vergano (Scientific American) [12:10]

What The Right Is Saying

• Some right-leaning sources actually agree: Outbreaks are tied directly to falling immunization rates, not immigration or travel.
• They blame public officials—including RFK Jr. and CDC leadership—for fueling distrust and minimizing the crisis.
• Wall Street Journal criticizes the CDC's shrugging response and points out the real danger comes from below-herd-immunity vaccination rates.

“Outbreaks happen when vaccination rates fall below the levels needed to maintain herd immunity, which is about 95%. The kindergarten vaccination rate in South Carolina was 91% during the 2024–2025 school year.” — WSJ Editorial Board [15:12]

• Some right-of-center voices call for a balanced review of all vaccines’ cost-benefit profiles, emphasizing informed patient consent (Hot Air).

Medical and Scientific Perspectives

• Experts warn of epidemic potential if herd immunity is further lost.
• American patchwork: Federal health agencies have little authority over independent state public health policies, resulting in a fragmented “patchwork” response.
• Dr. Michael Mina (NYT): Emphasizes high transmission rates, heightened risks for infants and immunocompromised people, and urges solo vaccines if exposure risk is high.
• MedPage Today panel: Blames state-federal disconnect for hindering outbreak management, warning that “infectious disease follows people, not borders.”

“Measles isn’t just a fever and rash. It can cause pneumonia, brain inflammation, permanent disability and death... It’s likely just the beginning.” — Dr. Michael Mina [17:43]

3. Ari Weitzman’s Take

[20:28–34:56]

Direct Engagement with Vaccine Skepticism

• Ari addresses vaccine skepticism with empathy, noting the genuine anxieties of parents—especially those who have experienced tragedies.
• Focuses on RFK Jr.’s key anti-vaccine arguments, specifically those from his pre-presidency writings at Children’s Health Defense.
• Systematically debunks Kennedy’s arguments:
  • Mortality rates: Yes, pre-vaccine fatality rates were 1 in 10,000 among infected—but since vaccine introduction, annual deaths have plummeted, with a record low of 1 in 170 million in 2025.
  • Vaccine harm vs. benefit: Kennedy asks for categorical proof that vaccines save more lives than they cost. Ari counters: “We can’t say a lot of things with certitude... but studies robustly support that the MMR vaccine prevents far more harm than it causes.” [23:21]
  • Vaccine side effects: Side effects like temporary GI or respiratory symptoms are not equivalent to “injury.” Serious adverse events are rare and vastly outweighed by prevented deaths.
  • VAERS misuse: Kennedy inflates adverse event numbers, ignoring that they are unvetted and not proven causal. Infamous false reports (like the "Hulk" transformation) highlight flaws in his argument.
  • Bodily autonomy argument: Acknowledges the right to personal choice, but insists that “bodily autonomy means having the choice to cooperate for a higher common good or let your selfish fears persuade you.” [31:44]

Memorable Quote Summing Up the Stakes

“Today, in 2025, armed with access to a vaccine and information about its benefits, our nation’s choice is not an authoritarian leader's decision to make... Instead, it is an individual choice between that higher good and each of our own fear. You have bodily autonomy. We all do. The achievements of our predecessors granted us that right; now we must exercise it wisely.” — Ari Weitzman [33:04]

• Ari closes with a Revolutionary War analogy: George Washington’s mass inoculation at Valley Forge was pivotal for American survival, sometimes superseding individual autonomy for collective welfare.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “This outbreak will not be the last. At least 15 states have proposed legislation to loosen vaccine requirements.” — Leana S. Wen (Washington Post) [11:19]
• “Measles is among the most contagious viruses known. Infants too young for vaccination, immune compromised people, and the elderly are all at risk.” — Dr. Michael Mina [17:45]
• “The problem with this line is that unvaccinated children can sicken infants and immunocompromised children who can’t be inoculated, leaving some disabled or worse.” — WSJ Editorial Board [15:33]
• “Public health depends on public trust. And when that trust is broken, diseases like measles come roaring back.” — Dr. Michael Mina [19:13]
• “Let’s go back to the very founding of our country... General George Washington’s ragged Continental army had to endure a brutal winter in Valley Forge, locked in a battle against an enemy Washington called ten times more dangerous than Britons, Canadians and Indians. That enemy was smallpox, and the weapon Washington chose to fight it was equally inoculation.” — Ari Weitzman [32:26]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & News Quick Hits — [02:25–05:32]
• Measles Outbreak Overview — [05:32–09:26]
• What the Left, Right & Experts Are Saying — [11:10–20:28]
• Ari Weitzman’s Take (Debunking Anti-Vax Points) — [20:28–34:56]
• Listener Q&A (Obama era deportations) — [34:56–36:52]
• Under the Radar: Social Media Trials, Microplastics — [36:52–38:42]

Tone and Language

The episode maintains Tangle’s signature: independent, fact-based, and respectful of diverse opinions. Ari Weitzman’s approach is empathetic, data-driven, and directly responsive to skepticism—articulating both a human and policy-centered argument for vaccination.

Summary

This Tangle episode provides a thorough, nonpartisan exploration of the U.S. measles outbreaks—showing how slipping vaccination rates, policy controversy, and rampant misinformation have converged in recent years. While both left and right agree the outbreaks are serious and linked to reduced vaccination coverage, they differ on causes and solutions. Medical and scientific perspectives stress the risk of losing herd immunity and the need for federal coordination. Ari Weitzman closes with a reasoned, point-by-point rebuttal of anti-vaccine arguments, urging listeners to prioritize collective well-being and historical perspective in the face of modern-day fear and misinformation.