Isaac Saul (Executive Producer) (2:04)

From Executive producer Isaac Saul.

John Lal (2:06)

This is Tangle.

Will Kbach (2:18)

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of our take. I'm your host today, Senior Editor Will K back filling in for Isaac this week. Today we're going to be covering President Trump's new proposal for a ceasefire in Gaza and an after war plan for the strip. This was announced on Monday after a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. And in the days since, it's sparked a lot of dialogue and debate about whether this could be the plan that actually ends the war and leads to sustained peace or at least a sustained end of hostilities between Hamas and Israel. So, so we're going to be getting into the key tenets of the plan, how it came together, what the prospects are of it actually being accepted by both sides. Isaac actually contributed his take today. He's in Italy this week, but he's been following this story and wrote a thoughtful take as as we've all come to expect from him on this issue. So looking forward to sharing that here up front. Want to flag tomorrow's Friday edition. This is going to be a focus on the Trump administration's under the rad. So there are names in the Trump administration that you might recognize, but you might not think about Rollins, Wright, Turner, Collins. If you don't recognize those names or if they don't immediately bring to mind certain actions that the administration has taken, you are very much not alone. And that's the point of this edition. These are the secretaries of federal level departments, the ones who haven't garnered as much attention so far in Trump's second term. And we're going to put the spotlight on what they've been up to. We're going to review 10 of these department heads and catch you up on everything that they've been doing and what the rest of their terms could hold. We're excited to share this one. It's a classic Tangle deep dive with contributions from across our editorial team. A reminder that these Friday pieces are for premium Tangle members only. So in order to listen to the full piece, you'll need to be a pain member. We'll have the link to subscribe in today's show notes. All right, I'm going to pass it over to John for the introduction to today's topic, what the left, right and writers in the Middle east are saying. Then I'll be back to read either Isaac's take and our reader question. All right, John, over to you.

John Lal (4:41)

Thanks, Will, and welcome everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, the Senate failed to pass two short term funding bills extending the partial government shutdown until at least Friday when the next vote is scheduled. Office of Management and Budget Director Russell Vaught told House Republicans that the government would begin firing federal employees within the next two days. Number two, the Trump administration will reportedly provide Ukraine with intelligence for long range missile strikes on Russia's energy infrastructure and has asked NATO allies to provide similar support. Number three, the Trump administration moved to end funding for the Council of the Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency, which serves as an umbrella organization for 72 inspectors general across the federal government. Number four, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing his administration to invest $50 million in using artificial intelligence for pediatric CANC. And number five, Germany arrested three suspected members of Hamas for allegedly planning attacks on Israeli and Jewish institutions in the country. Hamas denied any connection to the suspects.

Danny Pellegrino (5:59)

President Trump has secured Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's backing for a US proposed Middle east peace deal. The White House's 20 point proposal for peace in Gaza would see an immediate end to the war and the release of all hostages being held in the enclave.

John Lal (6:15)

On Monday, President Donald Trump met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to discuss a new plan to end the war in Gaza. The President's 20 point proposal outlines a series of actions to end the war between Israel and Hamas, including hamas's release of 48 hostages in exchange for nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners imprisoned by Israel, as well as a demilitarization plan, rebuilding framework and governance structure for Gaza after the war. Prime Minister Netanyahu has endorsed the plan, though Israel has not officially accepted it, while Hamas has asked for more time to review its provisions for context. In March, a three phase peace plan between Israel and Hamas fell apart after one peaceful exchange of hostages and prisoners. Meanwhile, President Trump outlined a separate plan for Gaza in February a under which the United States would take over the enclave and temporarily relocate Gazans to surrounding countries. Hamas did not accept the proposal, according to an Axios report. The new peace plan came together after Israel's strike targeting Hamas leaders in Qatar in September. While that strike imperiled ceasefire negotiations, President Trump reportedly organized a call for Netanyahu to apologize to Qatari leaders, which the president called productive. On Monday, Trump also signed an executive order declaring any attack on Qatar as a threat to the United States. White House advisors Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner developed the plan by combining an existing ceasefire proposal with a post war plan for Gaza developed by Kushner and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair. In addition to a hostage and prisoner exchange, the plan requires Israel to allow aid deliveries to Gaza to resume in full and creates a special economic Zone with preferred tariff and access rates in the Strip. Furthermore, Gaza would accept a technocratic apolitical committee as a transitional government with oversight from a Board of Peace led by Trump and Blair. The United States would work with Arab and international partners to establish a temporary international stabilization force to maintain stability on the ground. Arab mediators said that Hamas is open to the proposal and is still reviewing its details. The group is reportedly hesitant to fully disarm and destroy its weapons, as they have expressed concerns that the peace plan does not outline a clear path to Palestinian statehood. However, some Arab leaders have increased pressure on Hamas to accept the deal, saying that they will cut off diplomatic support if the proposal falls through. On Monday, the foreign ministers of eight Muslim majority nations and the Palestinian Authority endorsed the plan, saying it creates a path for a just peace on the basis of a two state solution. President Trump said he will give Hamas three to four days to respond to the proposal and signaled that he is not open to further negotiations. Hamas is either going to be doing it or not, and if it's not, it's going to be a very sad end, trump said. Today we'll share views from the left, right and Middle east writers on the proposal and then Isaac's Take.

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John Lal (10:25)

Alright, first, let's start with what the left is saying. The left is mixed on the proposal, with some saying it rewards Israel for its brutal tactics in the war. Others commend Trump for proposing a substantive, realistic plan. In Dropsite news, Jeremy Scahill and Jawa Ahmad called the plan a rubber stamp of legitimacy on Israel's subjugation of Palestine. While the proposal includes a series of apparent concessions to Arab and Muslim countries in return for their endorsement, it makes no mention of how Israel would be prevented from violating the agreement. The plan also includes a nebulous mention of possible future Palestinian self determination and statehood after Gaza redevelopment advances and the Palestinian Authority is reformed, scahil and Ahmed wrote. At the heart of Trump's plan is a thinly veiled ultimatum to bend the knee to Israel, renounce the right of armed resistance and agree to indefinite subjugation by foreign actors. In previous ceasefire negotiations, when Hamas has sought to propose amendments or even to clarify phrasing in draft text, Israel and the US denounced Hamas, falsely accusing it of rejecting peace and then Israel intensified the military assault on Gaza. Said Israel, meanwhile, has offered the public perception it agrees to draft deals while at the same time securing side letters from Trump and his predecessor Joe Biden, authorizing Israel to resume the war if it determines the agreement is no longer in its interests. In the Washington Post, David Ignatius suggested Trump's new Gaza is opening a door to something different. Peace is still a long way off, but Trump laid a strong foundation for it with his plan Monday to end the nightmare war in Gaza and begin the transition to a stable day after there, ignatius wrote. Trump often overstates the significance of his actions, but not here. His board of peace to oversee political transition in Gaza is a potential game changer. Trump spoke in the third person in offering himself as board chairman. But if this plan succeeds, he will have earned a measure of his vanity. A cynic useful in any discussion of the Middle east would caution that Trump's plan is long on hope and short on practical tools for ravaged Gaza and a Palestinian population broken and embittered. But Trump has at least given up on his initial ideas for forced relocation of Gazan Palestinians, Ignatius said the only real sour note in Trump's presentation Monday was his gratuitous attack on former President Joe Biden. In truth, Biden's Middle east team laid the groundwork for the Gaza ceasefire and the plan for transitional governance that Trump outlined on Monday. Alright, that is it for what the left is saying. Which brings us to what the right is saying. The right is mostly supportive of the proposal, though some suggest it will be less straightforward in practice than on paper. Others doubt Hamas will abide by the terms but say will bring an end to the war. Either way, the Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote, the pressure now shifts to Hamas to release all the hostages and disarm quests to solve the Middle east typically end in disappointment but the Trump deal is better understood as a way to move the region past the Gaza war and shift pressure onto Hamas. After a modest Israeli withdrawal, the deal requires Hamas to free all 48 Israeli hostages dead or alive, within 72 hours of acceptance, the board said. Hamas needs the hostages to manipulate Israelis. It needs weapons to stay relevant. Even under qatari pressure, which U.S. officials believe was generated at last by Israel's Sept. 9 strike in Doha, Hamas is unlikely to surrender all of its leverage up front. The deal then rests on a hopeful fiction. More relevant is what happens if the fiction is dispelled and Hamas clings to some or all of its hostages and arms. In that event, the plan is for the deal to proceed in the areas of Gaza under Israeli control. This means Arab states would build the government to replace Hamas authority in Gaza even as Israel continues fighting for Hamas. It could be the worst of both worlds, the board wrote. Israel would have full backing from the US to finish the job, Mr. Trump said. If Hamas rejects the deal, or if the Arab states are unable to disarm Hamas. The key for peace, he recognized, is ending the threat from Iran's terror proxy. In Newsweek, Josh Hammer assessed The Trump Netanyahu 20 point plan for Gaza. Hamas is unlikely to accept the deal for a very simple reason. Hamas is a fanatically 7th century aspiring Sharia supremacist death cult that has as its exclusive maximalist goals the death and destruction of every Israeli, every Jew and every other infidel, that is anyone who is not a Sharia supremacist Sunni Muslim in the world. It's all laid out clearly in the terrorist organization's harrowing 1988 founding charter, Hammer said. Even if Hamas purports to accept the deal, furthermore, the odds that the group would then immediately violate its terms are pretty much close to 100%. The Trump administration, through its latest peace initiative, will have only further buttressed its diplomatic credentials and statesmanship bona fides in the eyes of an ever skeptical world. Even more important if when Hamas rejects or fails to abide by the terms of the deal, Israel's final push to eradicate Hamas from Gaza will will only be further legitimized in the eyes of both the American public and the Israeli public, hammer wrote, one thing is entirely the war in Gaza will end with Hamas gone, all hostages retrieved and Israel victorious. Alright, that is it for what writers from the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to what writers in the Middle east are saying. Israeli writers generally support the plan, but many argue there must be swift consequences if Hamas rejects or breaks the deal Writers in the Arab world say the plan denies Palestinians agency, the Jerusalem Post editorial board wrote. Hamas must step down to allow a new dawn for the Middle East. Using a wedding analogy, there was a willing if slightly reticent bride at the Chuppah Wedding Canopy, Israel, whose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu embraced the plan with measured caution. There were the beaming parents of the bride, the U.S. and there were, while physically absent, the the parents of the groom from all the aforementioned countries who were signed on in earnest to the plan, according to Trump, the board said. But the groom, Hamas, the one party upon which the whole carefully crafted plan was dependent, was missing. Hamas has reportedly received the Trump proposal and is holding a series of consultations. If the past is any indication, as initial reactions have hinted, the terrorists will have many reservations and will say yes, but demand changes, the board wrote. The parties involved must clearly state that this is a take it or leave it proposition. And as Netanyahu said on Monday, with Trump's backing, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. If Hamas hesitates or rejects the plan, Israel will have free reign to finish the job in Gaza. In the Middle East, Eye Ishmael Patel called the plan a disaster for the Palestinians. The proposal is characterized by profound asymmetry, conditional rights and and the imposition of external control, reflecting a continuation of colonistic logic rather than a genuine path to self determination, Patel said. While the present proposal asks Hamas to surrender its weapons, it essentially means that all future Palestinians relinquish their right to self defense, in effect surrendering Palestinian security to the Israelis. This demand, coupled with the insistence that Hamas and other factions have no role in Gaza's governance, amounts to a call for political submission and disarmament. And in exchange for acknowledging Israeli colonization, the plan offers no guarantee for the creation of a Palestinian state. Instead, it uses ambiguous language suggesting that only after Hamas is removed and after the Palestinian Authority has faithfully carried out a reform program, might the conditions be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self determination and statehood, patel wrote. This pathway lacks any details regarding borders of a Palestinian state, independence to elect its political leaders, and is not guaranteed. Furthermore, the implementation depends heavily on the judgment and discretion of the Israeli side. All right, let's head over to Will for Isaac's take.

Will Kbach (18:32)

Thanks John. All right, this is Will back here. I'm going to be reading Isaac's take today. It's time for Hamas to surrender and end the war. As many readers know, covering this conflict has caused me a great deal of Emotional strife. Since the beginning, I feared the worst. Then the worst came. I started calling for a ceasefire in March of 2024, openly questioned my Zionism and made it clear that I believe Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a failed, corrupt leader whom Israelis should vote out of power the first chance they get. Since the start of the war, I've focused mostly on what Israel has to do, because Israel is clearly in control here. The terror, death, destruction and suffering Palestinians are experiencing is orders of magnitude worse than anything Israel is experiencing, which has been true for many decades now. And yet, despite all of the above, the war hasn't ended. International calls and efforts for a ceasefire have not broken through. Protests in Israel and across the globe have not moved the needle. And the hard truth, whether you believe Israel is waging a conventional war or conducting an ethnic cleansing or committing genocide, is that Israel is winning. It has the leverage to decide what happens next. And it's now giving Hamas, an organization that has failed its own people for decades, been totally decimated during the fighting, and ignited this war with their October 7th attacks. A way out. Hamas should take stock of this situation and then it should take this deal. In the last few months, Trump and Netanyahu have proposed a definitional ethnic cleansing, a plan to remove all Palestinians from the Strip, and then gave a half baked harebrained crypto scheme to build AI powered cities in Gaza and give Palestinians digital tokens to go rebuild their lives somewhere else. So suffice it to say, when I first heard reports of a new plan that Trump and Netanyahu were offering Hamas, I was not optimistic. But then I read the proposal and, well, it's actually pretty reasonable. It's well thought out with some novel elements, and it includes important carrot and stick measures to get both sides to a yes. The plan is structured to achieve an immediate end to the war, an eventual full Israeli withdrawal, a return of all the Israeli hostages, and a prisoner exchange that releases Palestinians back to Gaza. It gives members of Hamas a final opportunity to disarm and receive amnesty, A surprising inclusion that points toward a genuine effort at reconciliation. Aid would immediately begin flowing unobstructed into the Strip and its distribution would be coordinated by the United Nations. An apolitical committee of Palestinians and international experts would administrate a redevelopment plan in Gaza overseen by a so called Board of Peace, which would include Trump and other world leaders. Now, Trump's previous proposals for Gaza were ill conceived and unrealistic. This plan is thoughtful and grounded in reality. It recognizes that Israel will never stop its war Until Hamas is no longer in control. It offers the carrot of amnesty for members of Hamas to disarm and the stick of, well, the war continuing if their answer is no. Importantly, the plan does not require anyone to leave Gaza. In fact, it encourages Gazans to stay and be a part of redeveloping the Strip, while also inviting leaders from across the Middle east to have a say in what comes next. Hamas will be demilitarized and all the military installations and weapons depots in Gaza will be destroyed. Now, this provision is controversial as it undermines the Palestinian right to its own defenses. But given where we are and the way Hamas has marshaled those defenses throughout its time governing the Strip, it's pretty much the only option. And again, the plan has an appropriate carrot for Hamas. It prevents Israel from annexing Gaza. And it articulates that the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self determination and statehood, which we recognize as the aspiration of the Palestinian people. End quote. Of course, voices on both sides are calling for changes and the plan is imperfect. The fury and lack of trust Israelis and Palestinians now feel towards each other is going to take generations to resolve. Israelis will loathe the release of thousands more Palestinian prisoners and bristle at any discussion of a Palestinian state. Israeli military leaders will rightly doubt that Hamas or its leadership will refrain from further rocket attacks or organizing terrorism in the streets of Jerusalem. Any agreement will be tenuous and fragile. Gazans, meanwhile, will abhor a plan that requires their disarmament before Israel fully withdraws and explicitly invites international overseers to have a say in determining the future of the Palestinian people. They will also rightly distrust Netanyahu to follow through on an actual withdrawal. This is the same leader who tried to assassinate Hamas leadership in the middle of ceasefire negotiations in Qatar. The same leader who has already said he will forcibly resist a Palestinian state, a sentiment completely at odds with the plan he just endorsed. But these complicating factors aren't bridges that need to be crossed now as much as reasons Gazans should welcome the removal of Hamas. In any ceasefire deal, peace is simply not possible with Hamas in control. As for Israelis, they should immediately demand new elections after the war is over, as a future peaceful relationship with Gaza is tenuous at best. With Netanyahu in power. Obviously these are no small pills to swallow for either side, especially the Palestinians. But this is where we are. Tens of thousands of people are dead, vast swaths of the Strip are destroyed, and Israel is uninterested in relenting until Hamas submits Hamas has no pathway toward winning the war, and there's no clear picture of what that winning could even look like. In theory, Israel's own definition of victory is destroying Hamas, a nearly indefinable achievement that gives them carte blanche to keep fighting indefinitely. It has until now articulated no realistic future for Palestine that involves its own self determination. So for the good of its people and the good of the region, Hamas should surrender. They should have done so a long time ago. As of this writing, we don't have a good sense of which way they're leaning, but they should take the deal. It's a reasonable offer and they have no more cards to play. If they do accept, Israel should honor the plan as it's laid out, withdraw from Gaza quickly, and allow a genuine collaboration between Palestinian and global leaders to build a better future for Gaza and Palestinians. And again, it would be supremely helpful if the Israeli people celebrated a return of the hostages and an end to the war by immediately ridding themselves of Netanyahu, who oversaw the worst security failure in modern Israeli history and then dragged the country into a multi front war across the region that has destroyed its global credibility, killed tens of thousands of innocent people and invited more danger upon Israelis and Jews across the world. For now though, a glimmer of hope and major kudos to the Trump administration for landing on a more thoughtful and in some ways novel and genuinely practical proposal worthy of both sides getting on board. Let's hope there are enough wise leaders left in play to make it a reality.

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John Lal (26:13)

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Will Kbach (27:10)

All right, that is it for Isaac's take. Now we'll move on to today's audience Question this question comes from Sarah in Estes Park, Colorado. If Tangle existed in early to mid-1930s Germany, how do you believe you would have covered Hitler and his regime? Here's our response. We'd probably have to shut down. Honestly, the Nazi party suspended freedom of the press after the Reichstag fire and then prevented Jews from leading companies, marrying Gentiles and moving freely. So as a company with an editorial team led by two Jews married to two non Jews, we'd either be disbanding and scrambling for survival or running pirate wires from Poland. And that's not an attempt to be glib. That's how we'd actually have to respond to what was actually happening. Bluntly, the present day United States is not analogous to 1930s Germany, and Trump is not analogous to Hitler. And it is really, truly not close. Maybe you're implying that the current administration is taking steps toward an autocratic regime like the one Hitler installed in the 1930s. But consider how extreme the actions taken by the Nazi Party were. We struggle to imagine something like the Reichstag fire and the actions the German government used it to justify happening now. But this would be the modern analogy. Congress is burned down. The executive branch declares full autonomy over all the government, each branch and every level, and the government systematically reduces 1% of U.S. citizens to second class status. That is simply not at all what is happening right now. As for the things the Trump administration is actually doing, we've been highly critical of some of its most aggressive actions chilling free speech, violating due process, unilaterally declaring tariffs, and pushing our US Military into US Cities where we should note, it has not participated in arrests. Those things legitimately represent an authoritarian style of governance, but they aren't autocratic and they aren't 1930s Germany executive overreaches. We've got to have different words and terms to describe the different kinds of actions we're critical of or oppose. Not every executive overreach makes the president Hitler. And that's true whether the president is Bush or Obama or Biden or Trump. All right, I'm going to send it back over to John for the rest of the newsletter. Thanks as always for listening and looking forward to sharing tomorrow's piece with you. All right, John, over to you.

John Lal (29:39)

Thanks, Will. Here's your under the Radar story for today, folks. On Tuesday, German prosecutors announced the arrest of a Ukrainian national in Poland on suspicion of involvement in the Nord Stream gas pipeline attacks in 2022. The attack ruptured three of the four pipelines, which run under the Baltic Sea from Russia to Germany to provide Western Europe with natural gas, raising suspicions that Russia may have been responsible. However, two Ukrainian nationals have now been arrested as suspects, and prosecutors allege they were part of a group that coordinated and carried out the attacks. The suspect, identified as a trained diver, will challenge his pending extradition to Germany. The BBC has this story and there's a link in today's episode Description all right, next up is our numbers section. The number of hostages taken during Hamas October 7, 2023 attack that the group still holds is 48. The number of those hostages believed to be alive is 20. The estimated number of Palestinians killed in the Israel Hamas war is 66,000, according to the Hamas Run Gaza Health Ministry. According to an Agam Institute and Hebrew University poll published this week, 71% of Israelis say they support President Trump's proposed Gaza peace plan, 93% of Arab Israelis say they support the plan 12% of Israelis believe that Trump's plan will be fully and successfully implemented. According to a December 2023 New York Times Siena poll, 47% of U.S. voters said they sided with Israelis and 20% said they sided with Palestinians. In September of 2025, 34% of U.S. voters said they sided with Israelis and 35% said they sided with Palestinians. Alright, and last but not least, our have a nice day story. Human overhunting eliminated the puffin population of the US mid Atlantic region more than a century ago. In 1973, ornithologist Stephen Kress began efforts to start a new puffin colony on Eastern Egg Rock island in Maine. Fifty years later, hundreds of puffins live on the island, but Cress continues to protect them from new threats, including predatory laughing gulls. Gulls Cress's research team has started using decoy birds and nests to repel the gulls on the island, and the decoys they produce have since been used in over 800 other sea bird preservation efforts. Good News Network has this story and there's a link in today's episode description alright everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to retangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership, or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. As will mentioned at the top we have a Friday edition coming out tomorrow on some of the lesser known secretaries of federal level departments, those who have not been garnering as much attention in Trump's second term in office. In order to receive those Friday editions, you do need to be a paying member, so please head over to the link in our newsletter today or go to retangle.com to sign up for a membership. Isaac should be returning next week and I will also be back on Monday for the entire Tangled team. This is John Lal signing off. Have an absolutely fantastic weekend y'.

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Peace Our Executive Editor and Founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive Producer is John Law. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kbach and Associate Editors Hunter Casperson, Audrey Moorhead Bailey Saul, Lindsay Knuth and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@retangle.com.

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