Tangle Podcast Summary

Episode: The U.S. strikes an alleged drug boat, killing 11
Host: Isaac Saul
Date: September 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Tangle explores the recent U.S. military strike on a Venezuelan boat, ordered by President Donald Trump, which resulted in the deaths of 11 alleged drug traffickers purportedly belonging to the gang Tren de Aragua. The show meticulously breaks down what happened, shares perspectives from across the American political spectrum, and ends with host Isaac Saul’s personal take on the event’s legality, morality, and wider implications for U.S. policy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Event: U.S. Military Strike on Venezuelan Drug Boat

• Summary of Incident (05:54–07:07):
  The U.S. military sank a boat in the southern Caribbean Sea, killing 11 people.

  • U.S. officials allege the boat carried drugs from Venezuela and its crew were narco-terrorists from Tren de Aragua.
  • No supporting evidence was provided to the public by the Trump administration.
  • Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth stated "[...] the administration knew exactly who was in the boat" (07:07).
  • Trump: “You see the bags of drugs all over the boat and they were hit. Obviously, they won’t be doing it again, and I think a lot of other people won’t be doing it again.” (06:05)

• Escalation of Policy (07:07–09:45):
  President Trump previously designated Latin American cartels as terrorist groups. A recent directive reportedly authorized military force against these cartels, and the U.S. deployed warships near Venezuela.

• International Fallout and Legal Debate (09:45–10:19):

  • Venezuelan President Maduro denied drug trafficking and threatened military readiness in response.
  • Legal scholars questioned the legitimacy of using lethal military force in this context.

2. Political Spectrum Reactions

The Right (11:43–16:55)

• Mixed Response:
  • Some, like Andrew C. McCarthy (National Review), questioned the legality:
    “In our constitutional system, it is Congress, not the president, that has the power to declare war.” (13:35)
  • Others supported Trump’s decisive stance, viewing the cartels as an existential threat (Sarah Anderson, PJ Media).
  • Eldar Mamedov (The American Conservative) criticized the inconsistency of the administration—a mix of diplomatic engagement and military escalation:
    “This whipsawing between dealmaking and threats of force projects confusion, not strength.” (16:25)
  • Questions about unclear objectives: whether the aim was to stop drugs, topple Maduro, or something else.

The Left (16:56–20:27)

• Broad Opposition:
  • Jack Devine (USA Today): Advocated for partnerships over military interventions—recalls past success in Colombia with U.S. support for local forces, not U.S. military muscle.
  • The Atlantic’s team noted the increased militarization of drug enforcement, warning that the U.S. military’s involvement in crime fighting erodes its traditional boundaries.
  • Andreas Oppenheimer (Miami Herald) cast doubt on the likelihood of a U.S. invasion but highlighted Trump’s record of preferring not to deploy troops, suggesting the naval build-up might be coercive posturing.

3. Isaac Saul’s Take (20:28–29:30)

Emotional and Rational Reactions:

• Saul opens with a “pretty extreme” personal reaction, born from witnessing the opioid epidemic devastate his community:

  “When you’ve seen so many families destroyed by so many different kinds of overdoses ... you just can’t help but have a small part of you that doesn’t much care if some of the people responsible for it end up paying the ultimate price.” (20:37)

• However, he pivots:
  • Argues that drug trafficking does not warrant a death sentence, especially without trial or public evidence.
  • Compares the administration’s justification here to the lack of equivalent justice for American pharmaceutical executives who he feels caused more harm.
  • Laments the unilateral nature of the strike:

    “A death penalty for drug traffickers is, of course, even less justifiable when a country dispenses justice unilaterally—missile to speedboat—without any judge or jury to determine guilt.” (21:55)

Legal and Precedent Concerns:

• Saul is alarmed by the expansion of executive power to carry out lethal strikes on non-state actors without Congressional approval:

  “The president does not have the authority to assassinate suspected drug traffickers on the high seas, even if they are part of a claimed criminal gang.” (24:52, quoting Eric Boehm, Reason)

• He worries about the precedent this sets — noting that accusations, not evidence, led to death.

Policy and Effectiveness:

• Notes limited effectiveness of recent U.S. military shows of force in other global conflicts—questions whether this approach will improve the U.S. drug problem.
• Raises growing concern about possible buildup to an armed conflict or attempted regime change in Venezuela, despite Trump’s campaign promises against U.S. military entanglements:

  “So now a president who promised not to drag us into more foreign conflicts is redefining street gangs as terrorists, redefining illegal immigration as an invasion, redefining drug traffickers as terrorism and then treating drug traffickers from a country we are not at war with, like they’re active terrorists from a country that just attacked us.” (26:57)

• Final worry: If this is possible now, “where will it go next?”

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• President Trump on strike:
  “You see the bags of drugs all over the boat and they were hit. Obviously they won’t be doing it again, and I think a lot of other people won’t be doing it again.” (06:05)

• Eldar Mamedov on inconsistency:
  “This whipsawing between dealmaking and threats of force projects confusion, not strength.” (The American Conservative, 16:25)

• Isaac Saul on emotional reaction:
  “Dozens of classmates from my high school class are dead now, mostly thanks to tainted street drugs. The number of old friends, teammates and acquaintances becomes overwhelming.” (20:37)

• Isaac Saul on executive power:
  “Trump just ordered the military to kill 11 people for the alleged crime of trafficking cocaine. [...] Why do we accept this as any less mortifying? Because those killed were Venezuelan and not American? Because the military did it?” (22:48)

• Eric Boehm (quoted by Saul):
  “The president does not have the authority to assassinate suspected drug traffickers on the high seas, even if they are part of a claimed criminal gang.” (24:52)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Incident summary, official statements: 05:54–10:19
• Legal and policy background: 07:07–10:19
• The right’s reaction: 11:43–16:55
• The left’s reaction: 16:56–20:27
• Isaac Saul’s take: 20:28–29:30

Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, Isaac Saul maintains a clear-eyed, earnest tone—combining personal anecdotes and policy analysis with reflections on justice and democratic norms. The analysis from both left and right is presented in a measured, nonpartisan way, with clear attributions and minimal editorializing until Saul’s designated opinion segment.

Conclusion

This episode captures a major escalation in U.S. foreign policy and the drug war under President Trump, highlighting the move’s controversial legal/moral dimensions and the sharp split it provoked across the punditry. Saul’s closing concerns about unchecked executive power and blurred lines between crime and war resonate as a warning about the country’s trajectory in handling complex international threats.