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- [00:00]
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Mayra Ameth
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- [02:04]
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- [02:05]
John Law
Producer Isaac.
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Darina
Is Tangle.
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Isaac Saul
Good Morning, good afternoon, and good evening and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about the George Santos commutation. That is right. George Santos has been pardoned by President Donald Trump. It's Monday, October 20th. We're going to break down exactly what happened share some views from the left and the right. And then my take before we jump in though, a quick heads up and reminder we are coming to California. I'll probably remind you every day this week, Irvine, California at least, you know, unless we sell out, which we haven't yet, but we really want to do, there are not that many tickets left. Irvine, California Barclay Theater. It's about an hour north of San Diego, just just a little bit south of Los Angeles. It's going to be an awesome night. Anna Kasparian, Alex Thompson, Camille Foster, myself, we're going to do a little VIP after the show. We're going to take audience questions live. I think it's going to be really good. So if you are in the area in California, in the Southwest, if you are just looking for a trip, want to come to a beautiful part of the country and bake a weekend around our event, I think it's going to be worth it. It's not often that we get to do these Tangle News live events, but this is going to be a good one. So check it out. There's a link to tickets in our episode description and I very much hope to see you guys there. All right, with that, I'm going to send it over to John for today's main topic and I'll be back for my take.
- [04:01]
John Law
Thanks Isa and welcome everybody. Hope you all had a wonderful weekend. I just want to start off by saying, wow, thank you so, so much. So many of you wrote in with so many responses to your favorite books and I really genuinely appreciate that. It's very exciting for me to see them. I'm going to read off a list of them, the titles and the authors. I wish we had time to give a brief description, but my thought is that perhaps we can use our Reddit page and do that. We can keep this more of an open question with what I hope will be a list of ongoing answers. So for those of you who have written in and gave answers to what your favorite books are, and some of you had multiple ones, which is even more exciting. Let's try and get that going and set up on our Reddit page so that even more people can get involved. To start, Misty wrote in with Pay It Forward by Katherine Ryan Hyde. Brandon wrote in with Little Women by Louisa May Alcott. Jennifer wrote in with Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy, a parenting book. I've heard a lot about that. It's on my wife's and my list as well. Christopher F. Wrote in with Bangkok Wakes to Rain by Pichaya Sudbantad Christopher C. Wrote in with what's Our Problem by Tim Urban, a book I actually just recently started myself. Sarah wrote in with the Anthropocene reviewed by John Green, Nikki wrote in with the Raging Quiet by Cheryl Jordan and Thomas wrote in with Born a Crime by Trevor Noah, a book I actually deeply love myself. That would be on my list of recommended shares to answer your question. Thomas yes, Unoffendable by Brent Hanson Putting it on my list. I will get there. Folks, thank you so so much for writing in with all these wonderful book recommendations. Let's keep it going on our Reddit page and give these gifts to the whole community. My question for you all this week is when do you feel most at peace? I've recently had to do some self reflection and evaluating of the amount of stress that I carry in my life at times and the question then occurred to me, when do I feel most at peace? So I wanted to hear some advice from you guys. What are the things that you do to bring yourself to a moment where you can just be peaceful? I'd love to know. So you know where to reach me. Johnjonadtangle.com and lastly, I just wanted to say that some of you have written in with appreciation for the positivity on the pod. And for that I just want to say thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for refilling my cup with all of your kind responses. Positivity begets positivity. I truly believe that. And even in those times when I've been in situations where it's hard to remain positive, I try to remind myself that how you show up gives people unconscious or conscious permission and encouragement to show up the same way. So with that spirit in mind, let's remember to bring the best of ourselves to everything that we do in the hopes of spreading positivity and inspiration to all those around us and to the world. Alright, with all that said, here are your quick hits for today. First up, organizers said that close to 7 million people participated in approximately 2,700 no Kings rallies held across the United States on Saturday in protest of the Trump administration's actions. Number two, the Trump administration said that it will repatriate two alleged drug traffickers who survived a strike on their boat in the Caribbean Sea on Thursday. The survivors were from Colombia and Ecuador, and President Donald Trump said they would face prosecution in their home countries. Separately, the US Carried out a seventh confirmed strike on an alleged drug boat, killing three. Number three, Israel said it fired on militants who crossed into an area of Gaza under its control. The incidents follow Israel carrying out a series of airstrikes and temporarily suspending humanitarian aid to the strip after it said two of its soldiers were killed in an attack by Palestinian militants. Number four, President Trump reportedly told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that the US Would not provide Ukraine with Tomahawk missiles for the time being, suggesting doing so would undermine peace negotiations with Russia. And number five, Afghanistan and Pakistan agreed to an immediate ceasefire after negotiations in Qatar, which followed a week of violent engagements along the country's border.
- [08:17]
Isaac Saul
It was around 11 o' clock Friday night, according to his attorney, that former U.S. congressman George Santos walked out of this New Jersey federal prison a free man.
- [08:27]
John Law
I'm gonna fight my battle.
- [08:29]
Isaac Saul
His more than seven year sentence commuted by President Trump, Santos was convicted of wire fraud and aggravated identity theft.
- [08:38]
John Law
On Friday, President Donald Trump announced that he had commuted the sentence of former Representative George Santos, the Republican from New who was serving a seven year prison sentence for fraud and identity theft. In a post on Truth Social, Trump wrote, george Santos was somewhat of a rogue, but there are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to serve seven years in prison, adding, george has been in solitary confinement for long stretches of time and by all accounts has been horribly mistreated. Trump also suggested that Santos acted more forgivably than Senator Richard Blumenthal, the Democrat from Connecticut who overstated his military record in the past. Santos attorney said that he was released from the Federal Correctional Institution in Fairton, New Jersey on Friday night. The commutation does not expunge Santos criminal record, but he will not be required to pay the over $370,000 in restitution to his victims. For context, shortly after Santos was elected to Congress in 2022, the New York Times published a story questioning several claims he had made about his background, which Santos later acknowledged were fabrications. In 2023, he was indicted twice for embezzling money from his campaign, stealing the identities of campaign donors and defrauding those donors, among other counts. In December 2023, the House voted 311 to 114 to expel Santos from Congress, and he pleaded guilty to wire fraud and aggravated identity theft in August 2024. He was sentenced to 87 months in prison in April and began serving the sentence in July. During his time in prison, Santos directly appealed to President Trump for clemency in newspaper columns and on social media. Several of Santos Republican allies in the House also advocated for his release, including Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, who argued his sentence was excessive. After his release, Santos thanked President Trump on X, writing, I saw not only the strength of a great leader, but the heart of a man who believes in mercy, in redemption and in the promise that America gives everyone the promise of a second chance. He also said that he would focus on advocating for prison reform and accountability after his experience in solitary confinement. Democrats and some Republicans criticized Trump's decision. Former Representative Robert Zimmerman, the Democrat from New York who lost to Santos in 2022, said the commutation demonstrates the lawlessness of the Trump administration and Representative Hakeem Jeffries, the Democrat from New York, called it insulting. Representative Nick Lolata, the Republican from New York, wrote, george Santos didn't merely lie, he stole millions, defrauded an election and his crimes for which he pled guilty warrant more than a three month sentence. Other Republicans defended the decision, including House Speaker Mike Johnson, the Republican from Louisiana, who said, we believe in redemption. I hope Mr. Santos makes the most of his second chance. Representative Green thanked Trump for extending clemency, saying that Santos was unfairly treated and put in solitary confinement, which is torture. Today we'll share arguments from the right and the left on Santos commutation and then Isaac's Take.
- [11:33]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [11:40]
Isaac Saul
We'Ll be right back after this quick break.
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- [13:30]
John Law
Alright, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. The right is mixed on the commutation, with some questioning the decision. Others say Santos sentence seemed excessive relative to his crimes. Still others expressed confusion over Trump's rationale. In National Review, Jeffrey Blahar wrote about Trump's clemency decision, I suppose there's no point in mentioning that this week began with Trump opportunistically targeting John Bolton for conducting business as usual among Washington elite, and ends with him commuting the sentence of a felon who accepted a plea deal on 24 federal charges, including wire fraud and money laundering, lahar said. That's just the sort of presidency we're living under right now. And it remains to be seen whether Trump's use of the Justice Department to so openly punish his enemies and help his friends becomes the new norm. For whatever reason, Trump framed his commutation of Santos prison sentence in terms of a lengthy attack on Connecticut's Dick Blumenthal, who once infamously lied about having served in Vietnam. But it is indeed true that Blumenthal is less of a United States senator than he is a gollum, void of intellect or spirit, clumsily sculpted to resemble a politician, blahar wrote. But when it comes to complete and total frauds, even Tricky Dick must yield pride of place to our old friend George In PJ Media, Catherine Salgado suggested Santos treatment by the justice system was suspicious. Santos begged for justice and humanity from Trump, saying he was told he would be in solitary as long as the FBI was investigating him. Notably, New Jersey law strictly limits solitary confinement, though prisons have been accused of flouting the law before. Salgado said it was somewhat suspicious indeed that out of all of the dishonest corrupt individuals in Congress, including some accused of outright felonies like Ilhan Omar, Santos was the one who was axe. Coincidentally, soon after, he started aggressively going after the Chinese Communist Party and questioning its influence on our government. Now that Santos has received a commutation, perhaps Trump can look into and assist Chinese dissident Miles Guo, who was targeted in a biased campaign by the Biden administration, Salgado wrote. The president emphasized how harshly Santos was treated in prison, even while leftist judges allow major criminals to go free. Santos letter appears to have spurred the commutation, and he had appealed to his record backing Trump's agenda. In the New York Sun, Dean Karyanis explored Trump's shaggy dog story, justifying his decision. Santos was radioactive in political circles, yet Mr. Trump delights in doing things that consultants warn will spend political capital for no gain. His post Friday on Truth Social was classic misdirection aimed at shifting the spotlight to Mr. Blumenthal from Santos, Cariana said. In Mr. Trump's announcement, Santos was almost an afterthought. The post was audacious in its account of Mr. Blumenthal's misrepresentations, which were first exposed when he ran for Senate in 2010. Mr. Trump wrote that Mr. Blumenthal never went to Vietnam. He never saw Vietnam, he never experienced the battles there or anywhere else. True. The president, though, then slipped in that even the senator's minimal service in our military was totally and completely made up, burying his time as a reservist, karyanis wrote. As with so much in America, one's politics will determine their reaction to Santos skating. Critics will see it as short circuiting. Justice supporters will delight that Mr. Trump stands by his friends no matter what. Mr. Blumenthal is mum on the subject, a prop in the president's latest shaggy dog story. Who's again feeling the bite. Alright, that is it for what the right is saying. Which brings us to what the left is saying. The left is sharply critical of the commutation, framing it as Trump's latest subversion of the justice system. Some say Santos was let off the hook for serious crimes. Others suggest Santos was granted clemency primarily for his loyalty. The Newsday editorial board called the commutation justice betrayed. President Donald Trump's unwarranted release from prison of George Anthony Devolder Santos is another mockery of the American justice system. The commutation has generated a well justified bipartisan mix of public condemnations, but Trump is exercising one of the more regal privileges of the presidency set in the Constitution. He will not be held accountable for this amazing disgrace, the board wrote. Santos friends at the top level of the Justice Department also made sure he's off the hook on his agreement to pay nearly $400,000 in restitution to victims nationally. This is the latest sign of a dangerous bias that Trump is injecting into the Justice Department to concoct some prosecutions and cancel others based on his personal interests. In an unprecedented way, he's been openly demanding his appointees target specific Democrats for charges of dubious merit, the board said. During his two terms, Trump has fully pardoned nine former GOP members of Congress convicted of crimes, including ex Reps. Chris Collins and Michael Grimm of New York. The Kauffman Chronicle staff questioned Trump's claim that Santos was mistreated. Santos wasn't caught skimming from a pack or misreporting a line item. He engineered an elaborate scheme involving wire fraud, identity theft and campaign finance violations. He stole the identities of real donors to make unauthorized contributions. He filed false financial disclosures. He used political contributions for personal expenses, the staff wrote. Santos campaign was built on fabrication. He didn't just pad his resume, he invented it. He falsely claimed to be Jewish, to have descended from Holocaust survivors, to have worked at Goldman Sachs, to have lost his mother in the 911 attacks, and to have been a victim of the Pulse nightclub shooting. After all the damage, all the lies, all the theft, the man who let him walk didn't point to a procedural flaw or a new piece of evidence or even a disproportionate sentence. Instead, Donald Trump offered he's always voted Republican. That was the reason. Loyalty. Not truth. Not justice. Not reform. Obedience, the staff said. Santos didn't walk out of prison because he deserved mercy. He walked out because he served power. He lied for the right people. Because in a system warped by allegiance and ambition, that's all it takes. In Mother Jones, Noah Leonard argued. Santos was freed because he stayed loyal. Perhaps the most notable thing about President Donald Trump's Friday decision to commute the prison sentence of former Representative George Santos is how unsurprising it is in the end. One felon from Queens has come to the aid of another felon from Queens, leonard wrote. The president hasn't done so because he believes Santos was falsely accused. Not even Trump could convince himself of that. But because Santos stayed loyal, the commutation did not come totally out of the blue for Santos lawyer Joseph Murray, who said he had been in constant communication with lawyers at the Justice Department's pardon office. That office is now led by Ed Martin, a former Stop the Steal organizer who posed for photos in a trench coat outside the home of New York Attorney General Letitia James. This August, Leonard said James was indicted on flimsy charges filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, which is overseen by Lindsey Halligan, a former insurance lawyer and personal attorney for Trump. The Lesson is clear. There's one set of laws for the President's supporters and another for those who have run afoul of him. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take.
- [20:55]
Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take. George Santos is not a sympathetic character. The former Republican member of Congress is a fraudster. He falsified records and lied about donations he received in order to steal money from his donors and the Republican Party. He lied to the government about his crimes. He even committed unemployment fraud during the COVID 19 pandemic by lying on house financial disclosure forms to inflate his wealth. He used those ill gotten gains to, among other things, buy designer goods, spa treatments and Botox. He's been consistently dishonest, not just in his financial dealings, but also about his personal life. And for a long time he refused to acknowledge that or take any responsibility. He called the case against him a witch hunt, trying to steal a page out of the President's playbook before eventually thankfully admitting to it all. I was one of the many writers who called for Santos to be expelled from Congress long before his trial. A person whose sworn duty is to represent the people and uphold the law committing these crimes is particularly distasteful. It's even more distasteful when that person displays the obnoxious apathy Santos did, the brazen showmanship, the refusal to acknowledge any wrongdoing, the smugness of it all. I wanted to see him punished. And while a seven year sentence felt harsh, three months, which is how much time he ultimately served, feels like a slap on the wrist. And yet, a few weeks ago, an op ed Santos wrote, stop me in my tracks. Genuinely, I hadn't thought much about him since he was in prison last year, but the headline caught my eye. Santos in Solitary Slow Motion Torture. End quote. In the piece, Santos described 12 days he had spent in solitary confinement. Here's an excerpt that I'm going to read. On September 7, the warden's office saw fit to move me into something far worse. An even smaller cell, no more than 7 by 9ft, coated in filthy, reeking of neglect and utterly devoid of natural light or ventilation. In that suffocating shoebox, there is no room to walk, no hint of the sun, no trace of humanity. The silence is crushing. The air feels stale. The walls themselves seem to close in. I keep asking myself, will this barbaric confinement ever end? Is this legal under our Constitution? Or have I simply been erased from the protections of due process. Most haunting of all, will I survive it? With no access to my family, no calls, no emails, and with letters that may never leave this building, I live in total darkness, cut off from the world I once fought to serve. Let me be blunt. I find Warden Kelly's so called protection not only unpalatable, but cruel and unjustifiable. My time here has opened my eyes to a truth far too many ignore. America desperately needs prison reform. End quote. The piece seems significant enough to me that I posted about it on X before the commutation came. Despite all of Santos's fraudulent past behaviors, the writing felt earnest. As someone who has written about the ineffectiveness and cruelty of locking people in cages for their crimes, I could understand how living through that experience could impact someone so deeply. And I was admittedly somewhat glad Santos was making this plea. A former member of Congress, full of bravado and devoid of shame, humbled by an experience in prison, what better spokesman for reform could you ask for? At the same time, it's hard to let go of the context. When President Joe Biden pardoned his son Hunter, I called it an overt abuse of the presidential pardon power. A couple weeks later, Biden pardoned a slew of unsavory characters, including a few that genuinely shocked me, and I bemoaned the pardon power of the presidency more broadly. Then Donald Trump came into office and pardoned a host of unsympathetic criminals himself from violent January 6th rioters, including some who have reoffended to notorious fraudsters like Rod Blagojevich and Devin Archer. Trump then very obviously pulled a Justice Department case about Eric Adams in which the New York mayor seemed dead to rights in apparent exchange for more cooperation on immigration enforcement. These acts of clemency are a different side of the same coin of political prosecutions, the president playing the justice system like a team sport to punish enemies and grant allies the kind of mercy that nonpartisans rarely, if ever, receive. Remember, Trump's stated reasoning for rescuing Santos was not just to save him from inhumane treatment, but because he was a Republican. Perhaps most notably, the president's pardon relieves Santos of his duty to pay back the people he defrauded, meaning he will not be required to pay over $370,000 in restitution to his victims. In a CNN interview, Santos was asked if he would still pay them back and said that he would do what the law required and it should be mentioned, Santos himself publicly requested to be put into solitary confinement for his own protection before he entered prison. This isn't just palace intrigue, there are real consequences here. Trump's commutations have cost victims billions in restitution and become a cottage industry in the White House, making lawyers close to the president loads of cash in exchange for that access. It all gives me the gross, slimy feeling of dirty politics. So while I am genuinely moved by Santos's writing about solitary confinement, and I hope he follows through on his promise to dedicate his life to prison reform, I also don't trust him for a second for his commitment to the cause or feel he faced inappropriate punishment for his crime. Put differently, what are the odds that in six months Santos is a dedicated troll on social media, taunting his political opponents? I think they are probably better than the odds that he becomes a remorseful, humbled ex con working to change the system he experienced. I hope I'm wrong, and maybe my cynicism is getting the best of me these days, but that's my honest read. Trump, meanwhile, can hardly be thanked for being motivated by some kind of earnest mercy for Santos when he made his version of blind justice quite clear. If Santos had a D next to his name, he would have been left rotting in solitary confinement. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [27:24]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [28:59]
Isaac Saul
That is it for my take. Which brings us to your questions answered. This one is from Scott in Oregon. Scott said Is there a bar to getting something on the Supreme Court's emergency docket? Why aren't the justices required to sign and indicate how they voted on these things? Why isn't there any kind of summary explaining the decision so lower courts can reset follow the precedent that SCOTUS is setting with these okay, great question, and certainly one that I ask myself sometimes too. So the whole process for the Supreme Court's emergency docket is pretty fascinating, actually. First, a party, usually a state or the federal government, files an emergency application from the U.S. court of Appeals to the Supreme Court. Each justice is assigned to oversee applications originating from one of the federal court districts, for example, Justice Amy Coney Barrett in the Midwest, Chief Justice John Roberts on the Atlantic coast, and Justice Sonia Sotomayor on the West Coast. Appellants request the Court to provide emergency relief in one of three ways to stay a lower court's ruling, grant an injunction blocking or requiring an action, or issue a temporary order. The kinds of appeals they file also come in three death penalty cases, refilings cases that are first filed with one justice and then another, none of which have been successfully granted since 2000, and substantive cases like the ones challenging the legality of executive orders, federal regulatory enforcement, First Amendment questions, and conflicts between state and federal authorities. Then, if the circuit justice decides to bring the case to the Court for emergency review, the Court decides whether or not to grant relief based on a simple majority vote. Though public details about this process are honestly lacking. Nearly half of the Court's emergency cases concern executions, and because the timelines are so urgent, the Court doesn't typically hear oral arguments or record its opinions when issuing a judgment. And because the kinds of emergency cases the Court may hear are limited, they do not publicly issue merits based decisions that would serve to set precedent for other courts or future cases. Lastly, because the lack of detail in these decisions, the Court's emergency docket is also known as the shadow docket or alternatively, the Interim Relief Equity Short order or non merits docket. But no matter what you call it, the Court's growing use of this procedure has become the subject of increasing scrutiny. According to reporting From SCOTUS blog, 75% of emergency cases have resulted in conservative, quote unquote outcomes, despite overall decisions on emergency applications breaking roughly evenly along ideological lines. Furthermore, the Court has been granting relief to substantive cases under the Trump administration at nearly double the rate it did under the Biden administration. All right, that is it for your questions answered. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the pod and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace.
- [31:57]
John Law
Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under the radar story for today, folks. In March, when the United States was discussing plans with El Salvador to send hundreds of Venezuelan immigrants to the country's terrorism confinement center, Secretary of State Marco Rubio reportedly agreed to return 9 Ms. 13 gang leaders in United States custody, including some who were acting as informants under U.S. protection. To do so, Attorney General Pam Bondi would have had to terminate the Justice Department's arrangements with those informants. Those individuals had threatened to reveal information about the Salvadoran government's agreements with the gang's leaders, which was the subject of a U.S. investigation. Some current and former Justice Department officials suggest Rubio's decision could undermine U.S. credibility in securing the cooperation of gang members in ongoing and future criminal investigations. The Washington Post has this story and there's a link in today's episode Description alright, next up is our number the approximate number of days that George Santos was sentenced to serve in prison was 2,646. The number of days Santos served before his sentence was commuted was 84. Santos was ordered to pay approximately $373,750 in restitution. As part of his sentence, Santos was ordered to pay approximately $205,003 in forfeiture. Santos margin of victory over Robert Zimmerman in the 2022 election for New York's 3rd congressional district was 7.6%. The vote in the House to expel Santos in December of 2023 was 311 to 114, and the number of House Republicans who voted to expel Santos was 105. And last but not least, our have a nice day story. Though much is still unknown about the formation of the universe, the James Webb Space Telescope has provided astrologists with clearer, higher resolution satellite imaging than ever before. From a recent batch of JWST photos, a group of researchers identified four unique looking stars with characteristics similar to those of supermassive dark stars, primordial objects filled with self annihilating dark matter whose existence until now has only been theorized. Weighing a million times as much as the sun, such early dark stars are important not only in teaching us about dark matter, but also as precursors to the early supermassive black holes seen in JWST that are otherwise so difficult to explain, kathryn Fries, co developer of the original theory behind Dark Stars and co author of the recent study, said. Science Tech Daily has this story and there's a link in today's episode description alright everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to readtangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership or a bundled membership that gives you a discount on both. And don't forget, at the end of the week, Friday, October 24th, we are heading to Irvine Barclay Theatre to do our Tangle Live event with Alex Thompson, Anna Kasparian and Camille Foster. It's going to be a really exciting time. The Tangle team is going to be there and we are offering a VIP giveaway where you'll be able to meet our panelists after the show for a private reception. The link to enter is on our website, in today's newsletter and in our episode description. And this is also your last call to grab tickets before we sell out. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day y'. All. Peace.
- [35:35]
Isaac Saul
Our Executive Editor and Founder is me, Isaac Sol and our Executive Producer is John Wall. Today's episode was edited and engineered by John Wall. Our Editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will Kaback and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead Bailey, Saul Lindsey Knuth. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75 and John Law and to learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@readtangle.com.
- [36:20]
Advertiser
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