Tangle Podcast Summary

Episode: Trump’s 2020 Election Pardons
Host: Will Kaback (Senior Editor), John Law, Isaac Saul (Executive Producer)
Date: November 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Tangle focuses on President Donald Trump’s recent round of presidential pardons, specifically targeting key figures from his first administration, including attorneys, advisors, and Republican allies involved in efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. The episode examines the legal, political, and cultural implications of these pardons, highlights reactions from both the left and right, and provides analysis on what these actions mean for American democracy and the future use of presidential clemency.

Segment Breakdown & Key Discussion Points

1. Background and Details of the Pardons

(05:53–09:22)

• President Trump issued 77 "full, complete, and unconditional" pardons connected to the 2020 election challenges.
• Key recipients: Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, Mark Meadows, John Eastman, Kenneth Chesebro, Boris Epshteyn, among others.
• None of the recipients were federally charged, but the pardons shield them from future federal prosecution related to the 2020 election. State-level prosecutions remain viable.
• The pardon proclamation’s language is broad, applying to conduct around the "advice, creation, organization, execution, submission, support, voting activities, participation in or advocacy" related to the 2020 electoral process.
• The proclamation specifically excludes Trump himself.
• Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said:

  "Getting prosecuted for challenging results is something that happens in Communist Venezuela, not in the United States of America, and President Trump is putting an end to the Biden regime's communist tactics once and for all."
  [06:42, paraphrased]

2. Analysis: What the Left Is Saying

(12:45–16:00)

• General Sentiment: The left sees the pardons as an attempt to rewrite the narrative of 2020 and signal future legal impunity for loyalists.
• Key Arguments & Quotes:
  • Hayes Brown, MSNBC:

    “Trump's latest pardons aimed to make his fake elector scheme legal... Trump appears to be in pursuit of two worrisome goals.”
    [12:59]

    • 1. Undercut ongoing state cases, giving defendants an appellate argument.
    • 2. Green light for those who subverted the 2020 election to rejoin the fold or repeat their actions in the future.
  • Dan Friedman, Mother Jones:

    “The pardons… are symbolic. They are part of Trump’s larger effort to downplay his attempt to subvert the 2020 election and his responsibility for the January 6 attack…”
    [14:12]

  • Aaron Blake, CNN:

    “Trump is creating a permission structure in which people will credibly think that they can't be held accountable in federal court as long as what they're doing benefits Trump.”
    [15:30]

• Noted Concerns:
  • Normalizes legally dubious conduct if in service of Trump.
  • Efforts to pardon “fake electors” and similarities drawn to 1960 Hawaii electors (though that wasn’t pursued).
  • Transactional and brazen nature, suggesting loyalty to Trump supersedes the rule of law.

3. Analysis: What the Right Is Saying

(16:00–20:18)

• General Sentiment: The right frames the pardons as an attempt to end injustice against Trump allies and a defense against perceived political targeting.
• Key Arguments & Quotes:
  • Margo Cleveland, The Federalist:

    “The president’s pardons seek to end the injustice… the prosecutions are attempts by partisan state actors to shoehorn fanciful and concocted state law violations onto what were clearly federal constitutional obligations…”
    [16:45]

    • Argues for a novel constitutional theory that alternate electors’ actions were federal duties, making prosecution under state laws inappropriate.
    • Acknowledges the strategy as legally untested.
  • Noah Rothman, National Review:

    “It’s not like Trump invented preemptive pardons. Biden's pardons of his family members, January 6 committee participants, and public officials like Anthony Fauci… set the stage for today's disgrace.”
    [17:45]

    • Blames President Biden for “setting the precedent” with high-profile, preemptive pardons.
    • Warns both parties will continue to escalate the use of clemency for political cover.
  • Ed Morrissey, Hot Air:

    “The timing on this pardon announcement seems interesting… With left about to conduct unending struggle sessions over the collapse of the Schumer shutdown, what better moment than to clean up what remains of a five year old mess.”
    [19:10]

    • Notes strategic, low-profile announcement to minimize backlash.
    • Suggests state charges are largely dormant due to legal setbacks and approaching statutes of limitation.

4. Editorial Perspective: Will Kaback’s Take

(20:18–26:14)

• Asserts that these pardons are an “obvious abuse of presidential clemency powers,” describing them as a further step in the politicization of executive grace.
• Recaps:
  • The alternate elector scheme orchestrated by Chesebro and Eastman to overturn certified results.
  • Legal campaign led by Giuliani and Powell accusing wide-ranging and unsubstantiated voter fraud.
  • State-level prosecutions (Georgia, Arizona) which are unaffected by the pardons.
• Observes that:
  • The federal impact is minimal because current prosecutions have been resolved or dropped.
  • The pardons are “a message to those around him: if you stick by me, I'll make sure you're protected.”
  • Both major parties have contributed to the erosion of pardon norms:

    “When a president appoints himself the arbiter of who is a victim of a political witch hunt…and decides who gets to be immune from any future prosecution, he swings the door wide open for a future president to do the same on their own terms.”
    [24:37]

• Suggests genuine reform would require a constitutional amendment but advocates for a return to using pardons for compassion, not political favors.
• Notable parallel:

  "In many ways, this issue reminds me of the gerrymandering fight…as long as we remain mired in that mindset, we'll be stuck in a race to the bottom."
  [24:55]

• Urges listeners to resist justifying abuses along partisan lines.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Hayes Brown, on Trump’s goals:

  “…the pardon acts as an invitation for those who took part in the attempted auto-gulp to be returned into the fold…to replicate their campaign against democracy in the future.”
  [13:49]

• Aaron Blake, on the transactional message:

  “What message does it send…to participate in legally dubious administration actions, things like boat strikes in the Caribbean, to carry out his deportation agenda in rather brutal ways?”
  [15:45]

• Will Kaback, Tangle Senior Editor:

  “These pardons are another extension of the president’s expansive use of clemency power... It’s a message to those around him that if you stick by me, I'll make sure you're protected.”
  [24:10]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [05:53] – Trump’s pardons detailed, recipients named
• [06:25] – Broader context and legal implications explained
• [12:45] – What the left is saying (MSNBC, Mother Jones, CNN perspectives)
• [16:00] – What the right is saying (Federalist, National Review, Hot Air)
• [20:18] – Will Kaback’s editorial analysis
• [24:37] – Analysis of bipartisan clemency abuse
• [27:41] – Reader question: Congressional session statistics

Summary & Takeaways

• Trump’s new batch of pardons is exceptional in its breadth and symbolism, carving a broad shield over 2020 election efforts by giving key operatives federal immunity.
• The left views the move as an attempt to normalize past anti-democratic actions and create future permission for potentially illegal acts on Trump’s behalf.
• The right generally defends the pardons as necessary pushback against politically motivated prosecutions, with some noting that Biden’s prior use of clemency set a dangerous precedent.
• Editorial perspective: These pardons represent an escalation in the politicization of presidential clemency. Both parties now frequently use pardon power to protect their own, further eroding traditional boundaries and trust.
• Institutional reform seems unlikely soon, so maintaining public pressure and bipartisan consensus against abuse is critical.

For a deeper dive, listeners are encouraged to check out Tangle’s previous coverage on both the 2020 election fraud claims and the use of executive pardons.