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- [00:01]
Eugenio Derbez
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Marc Maron
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Isaac Saul
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Eugenio Derbez
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Marc Maron
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John Law
Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressives name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget. So you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try it@progressive.com and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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Marc Maron
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- [01:36]
Isaac Saul
From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
- [01:51]
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tango podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about President Donald Trump's address to Congress last night. This was not a State of the Union address, but it was an address to a joint session of Congress. So we're going to talk about what he said, some of the things that happened in the room because there were some fireworks and of course, share some views from the left and the right. And then my take. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to John and I'll be back for my take.
- [02:32]
Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, Mexico, Canada and China said they would levy tariffs on US Goods in response to the Trump administration's tariffs on their products, which went into effect on Tuesday. Number two, the Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 to uphold a federal judge's order that compelled the Trump administration to release funding for completed projects to contractors and recipients of grants from the U.S. agency for International Development and the State Department, which amounts to roughly $2 billion. Number three President Donald Trump announced that the US in cooperation with Pakistan, had apprehended one of the key planners of the 2021 bombing at Kabul Airport's Abbey Gate in Afghanistan, which killed 13 U.S. service members and at least 170 Afghan civilians. Number four Russian President Vladimir Putin offered to mediate discussions between the United States and Iran over its nuclear program and support for anti US Militant groups in the Middle East. Separately, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he wanted to make things right with the Trump administration and signaled his interest in negotiating an end to the Ukraine Russia war. Additionally, Central Intelligence Agency Director John Ratcliffe said that the US had paused intelligence sharing with Ukraine. At number five, a consortium led by BlackRock reached a $23 billion deal to place two key Panama Canal ports American control. The group is purchasing the rights from a Hong Kong based conglomerate.
- [04:16]
Eugenio Derbez
Six weeks ago I stood beneath the dome of this capitol and proclaimed the dawn of the Golden Age of America. From that moment on, it has been nothing but swift and unrelenting action to usher in the greatest and most successful era in the history of our country.
- [04:39]
Isaac Saul
Chair now directs the Sergeant at Arms to restore order. Remove this gentleman from the chamber. On Tuesday night, President Donald Trump addressed a joint session of Congress for the first time in his second term. Though not technically a State of the Union address, Trump used the platform to tout his administration's early achievements. Additionally, President Trump outlined his legislative agenda, called attention to stories of Americans who had been victims of crime, and highlighted his administration's cost cutting initiatives and executive orders on social issues. The speech lasted about 100 minutes, the longest presidential address to Congress in modern history. Our spirit is back, our pride is back, our confidence is back, president Trump said. The American dream is unstoppable and our country is on the verge of a comeback the likes of which the world has never witnessed and perhaps will never witness again. Trump spoke at length about his administration's foreign policy. On Ukraine, Trump announced that he had received a message from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that Ukraine was ready to negotiate a mineral rights deal with the United States and make peace with Russia. On the Panama Canal, Trump said that the US Would be taking it back from China. On Greenland, he said, one way or the other, we're going to get it. Trump also further committed to tariffs not just on Canada and Mexico, but reciprocal tariffs on Europe China and South Korea. The speech drew starkly different reactions from Republicans and Democrats. Republicans cheered the president throughout his address, with some of the longest applause breaks coming in response to individual stories. Republicans cheered the president throughout his address, with some of the longest applause breaks coming in response to individual stories. Conversely, Democrats sat silent throughout most of his speech and occasionally jeered. Shortly after President Trump started his address by boasting about his 2024 electoral victory, Representative Al Green, the Democrat from Texas, shouted that President Trump's victory was not a mandate and refused to be seated, leading House Speaker Mike Johnson, the Republican from Louisiana, to order his removal from the chamber. Other Democrats seated in the chamber held signs reading Save Medicaid and Elon Steals, occasionally rebuking claims made by the president and remain seated during applause breaks. Our democracy is at risk when a president decides he can pick and choose what rules he wants to follow, when he ignores court orders or the Constitution itself, or when elected leaders stand idly by and just let it happen, senator Alyssa Slotkin, the Democrat from Michigan, said in the Democratic response to Trump's address. But it's also at risk when the president pits Americans against each other, when he demonizes those who are different and tells certain people they shouldn't be included. Today we'll get into what the right and the left are saying about the speech, and then Isaac's tape.
- [07:42]
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [07:47]
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- [08:47]
Unknown
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- [09:46]
Isaac Saul
All right, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. The right praises the address, saying Trump reminded voters why they elected him. Some criticize Democrats for their conduct during the speech. Others say Trump's optimism overpowered Democrats antipathy. In the American conservative, Daniel McCarthy called it a night of triumph for Trump. His remarks were long, a solid two hours, but they did not consist of the usual rhetorical fluff and vague promises. Instead, the president reiterated most of the themes and policies he outlined in his inaugural address, adding some accomplishments already won and expanding on many items still on his agenda. McCarthy wrote Dismantling the diversity, equity and inclusion regime, expelling illegal immigrants, fighting gangs and cartels and and affirming that there are only two sexes or genders if we must, were among the objectives duly enumerated, as were tariffs, tax cuts and drill baby drill. Trump dispelled controversy from the policies by highlighting individuals whose experiences made the case for them emotionally irrefutable. Here, too, the Democrats antics helped Trump by reinforcing the impression conveyed by the guest's testimony, McCarthy said, this is an administration on full offense. Yet only Democrats are offended to judge by the highly positive public response to the speech. Trump and his team have found a way to turn combativeness into attraction, leaving the president's unhappy foes nothing to do but shout and pout. In the Federalist, Jordan Boyd argued Democrats protest Trump's agenda because it forces them to celebrate America's wins. Trump kicked off his joint address to Congress on Tuesday night by declaring America is back. He didn't get much further in his speech before he was interrupted by a chorus of protests from Democratic members, primarily Representative Al Green, shouting and waving auction bid like paddles. Expressing their dissent, Boyd wrote Trump has already accomplished much of what he promised the Americans who elected him, yet he recognizes that Democrats will still vilify him. Their behavior is not the least bit surprising given their track record of trying to steal Trump's State of the Union spotlight. More importantly, and unfortunately for Americans who are hopeful that their country can survive the constitutional crisis the previous administration thrust it into, their rebuff of Trump's invitation to unify over the betterment of the nation is also on brand, Boyd said. The only reason Democrats can kick, scream and refuse to clap for that in even the most wholesome, least partisan parts of Trump's agenda is simply because they don't believe in the America Trump and his voters so dearly love. In the New York Post, Michael Goodwin said Trump's rousing address puts Dem's bunch of clowns to shame. Democrats earned their trip to the political wilderness and Tuesday proved they are not yet ready to emerge as a constructive opposition party. Meanwhile, the president they love to hate put on a show for the ages. No commander in chief in modern times has seized the reins of power with such gusto and delivered such immediate results, goodwin wrote. We are witnessing a president at the top of his game, clear eyed and confident about himself and his agenda. He put on a masterclass in presidential leadership in what was a speech for the ages. The Trump on that stage is not just the dominant figure in American life. In six short weeks, he has put our nation at the center of the world and made America important again, goodwin added. As for Democrats, there was one moment Tuesday where it seemed to me that they were especially embarrassed. Trump recounted how Biden and Senate Democrats insisted that new legislation was needed to shut down the border. But Trump, in a deadpan fashion, noted, it turns out all we needed was a new president. Half the room rose in thunderous applause. The other half had no answer. Alright, that is it for what the right is saying. Which brings us to what the left is saying. The left is critical of the address, saying it was full of showmanship but light on substance. Some say Trump focused on culture war issues at the expense of pressing economic problems. Others question Democrats response to the speech. In the Washington Post, Karen Tumulti called it a classic Trump speech, rich in showmanship and at odds with reality. America's momentum is back, trump proclaimed. But that was a big claim, considering Trump is less than halfway through his first 100 days, and what he has achieved thus far is mostly turmoil and a blizzard of legal challenges. On Tuesday, the Dow Jones industrial average fell 670 points, driven downward by Trump's decision to impose punishing tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China to multi road. Hard hit by this act of economic and political arson would be the working class Americans who voted for Trump in part because they believed he would deliver a stronger economy and lower inflation. Amid the partisan tension, Trump punctuated his speech with some heartwarming Oprah like flourishes. What got short shrift in the address is the degree to which Trump is dismantling a world built over three quarters of a century by the United States itself through global engagement and multinational alliances, tamalti said. As an exercise in gilded reality, the speech was trademark Trump in the American Prospect. Harold Meyerson said the state of Donald Trump's union is permanent culture war. What America is going through today has been termed a cold civil war and Donald Trump certainly validated that perception last night with a 99 minute display of waving the bloody shirt before a joint session of Congress. He almost completely blew off the what needs to be done legislative agenda, the President's customarily put before Congress, morrison wrote. He barely touched on the economic concerns that led to his victory last November. His most specific discussion of the economy was to warn farmers that the retaliatory tariffs imposed by trading partners earlier in the day might harm them. But he hoped only temporarily. Trump pronounced woke is gone. Well, not if he has anything to say about it. If his speech demonstrated anything, it's that he's determined to keep woke in all its variations, suspicious of woke, things that might be woke, things that can be attacked as woke, very much alive, meyerson said. Trump had virtually nothing to say last night to non supporters, nothing to offer save that the tariffs might discomfort them for a while. His speech was exceptional not only for its length but for its backward looking nature. Biden popped up more than once as the cause of all the current economic woes in the Atlantic, tom Nichols wrote. Democrats are acting too normal. Pity Senator Alyssa Slotkin of Michigan, who got handed the task of a response to Donald Trump's two hour carnival of lies and stunts. Slotkin gave a good normal speech in which she laid out some of her party's issues with Trump on the economy and national security. It was so normal, in fact, that it was exactly the wrong speech to give, nichols said. Slotkin, like so many in her party lately, failed to convey any sense of real urgency or alarm. Her speech could have been given in Trump's first term, perhaps in 2017 or 2018, but we are no longer in that moment. Did Americans vote for Kash Patel to lead the FBI or Robert F. Kennedy Jr. To run the Department of Health and Human Services, or Pete Hegseth to be Secretary of Defense. Trump took the time to recognize and praise all three of those men in his speech. So why not ask the question? Nichols wrote. Slotkin's response reflected the fractured approach of the Democrats to Trump in general. Some of them refused to attend tonight's address. Some of them held up little ping pong paddles with messages on them, a silly idea that looked even worse in its execution. And others meandered out. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take.
- [17:42]
All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying. Which brings us to my take on a day like today, I gotta say, just like the the normal structure doesn't feel like it will suffice. So I just wrote down 17 thoughts and reactions while I was watching the address last night. Number one, I really can't think of any president who has rivaled Trump's showmanship. Obama and Clinton had a similar capacity for delivering big speeches like this, but I don't think either of them was as good at working the room. Trump egging Democrats on to smile or cheer for any of his accomplishments, or swearing in a 13 year old brain cancer survivor to the Secret Service, or presenting a new executive order live, or even announcing the acceptance of an applicant to West Point. It's all eye catching, distinctly Trumpian and impossible to imagine from President Biden. I think it's a big reason why Trump is back in office. In fact, it might be the reason. Number two, if you're an American who's only paid passing attention to the last six weeks and watched Trump's speech, you'd probably think things were going exceptionally well. It did not Surprise me that 76% of SpeechWatchers approved the address, according to CBS. Number three, Trump talked about immigration several times and man, did he earn the bragging rights. Illegal border crossings hit a 25 year low in February, his first full month in office, and they could be the lowest ever. He proved a lot of people wrong, including me, that he could get the numbers at the southern border back down this low without the help of Congress, the media and our friends in the Democratic Party kept saying we need a new legislation, we must have legislation to secure the border, Trump said. But it turned out that all we really needed was a new president. It's a pretty good line. Number four, I am not a particularly sensitive person when it comes to fear mongering in politics, but spending so much time framing transgender women as evil, an overt focus on a small sliver of our population really makes me uncomfortable. I know Trump claims to care about women's sports and some stories about early transitions for minors who later regret it obviously present real harms, but I really think he's just found a winning issue that activates people's worst instincts, fear and hate, and is continuing to exploit it. Imagining some of the trans women I know watching that speech makes me feel really deeply horrible for them, and I suspect they feel a ton of fear just going through their day to day lives right now. I wish she would just stop and let this issue go. Number five Could Democrats be any worse at this? They seem utterly outmatched and out to sea right now. Holding up signs that say false, wearing pink blazers, walking out, getting kicked out. It all just looks so feckless. Is this really their plan for the resistance? Do you think maybe you should stand up and clap when Trump announces the capture of a terrorist who killed 13Americans at Abbey Gate? Or how about for the family of Lincoln Riley? At least a few of them put their hands together for the 13 year old with brain cancer. So they got that one right. Number six One of the most cringy things about the MAGA movement is their obsession with superlatives, which clearly comes from their leader. I saw a few prominent social media accounts suggesting that last night's congressional address was the greatest ever or Trump's best speech ever. It was neither. Trump himself couldn't help but claim Biden was the worst president in American history. I wish someone could just beat it into their brains that everything doesn't have to be the absolute greatest and worst things in world history. Could we try a new way to communicate maybe? Number seven, one deeply concerning note from the night. We do appear to have a bunch of petulant children running the country. One member of Congress ripped a sign out of another member of Congress's hands. The President called Senator Elizabeth Warren, the Democrat from Massachusetts Pocahontas as a derogatory term to mock her purported Native American heritage. One side was jeering and interrupting the President while the other side tried to drown them out with chants of USA. I mean, this is genuinely the stuff of an 8th grade pep rally. Is anyone at all concerned about this? Number eight, Trump is still repeating a lot of nonsense about Social Security payments to 150-year-old Americans. To recap, we know that there are erroneous Social Security payments. Last year, the Social Security Administration Inspector General found $71.8 billion in improper payments from 2015 to 2022, about 0.84% of the $8.6 trillion in payments over that time period. So a small sliver, but you know, a lot of money because there's $8.6 trillion in payments. Another inspector general report from 2021 found that the SSA made $298 million in payments to 24,000 dead beneficiaries. But Musk has made much more sweeping claims on X and pretended Doge uncovered all this. A lot of people explained to Musk that he was misunderstanding the data he was looking at, but he has not corrected the record. Now the president is running with it even after his own appointed Social Security administrator said, quote, recent reporting from Musk and Trump that is was misinforming people about fraudulent payments. Number nine. And relatedly, I think Pete Buttigieg has asked the right question. What is this a pretext for? Trump and the GOP have long shown interest in going after Social Security. What are they going to try? It is very obvious that Trump and Musk keep implying payments are going to many of the ridiculously old people listed in the Social Security database after this has been debunked repeatedly, which suggests he's providing himself a pretext to eliminate or reduce Social Security payments. This is obviously a political third rail, and I'm still unsure if Republicans go for it. But I really can't think of any other reason for Trump to keep pushing Musk's story. Number 10, maybe Trump's strongest moment of the night was listing all the different programs our federal government spends millions or billions of dollars on, as we've covered repeatedly. I would not take any Doge numbers or statistics at face value. They keep making errors, keep correcting themselves or trying to cover up their mistakes. That being said, I went through Trump's list last night and at a quick glance, I can't find evidence for a few claims. Some seem inaccurate, but most of them look true. We do spend $20 million on what looks like an Arabic version of Sesame street, or $45 million for DEI scholarships in Burma, or $47 million to improve learning outcomes in Asia. I think there's a strong case for continuing most foreign aid programs, but a lot of Americans are going to hear this stuff and want big changes. It is very smart politics. Number 11, Trump did not inherit an economic catastrophe as he claimed. He had a relatively stable and growing economy with low unemployment numbers that has overcome the worst pandemic era inflation, but is still trying to fully bury it. But that's the story. That being said, his tariffs are clearly creating A lot of uncertainty and unease on Wall street, and I think a recession is increasingly likely. I know this is a radical idea, but I also think Trump may want a recession, and I think he and his supporters are going to try to sell the idea that a recession would be good for the country. I've actually been keeping a running thread on X of this very thing. Number 12 I have no idea how Democrats haven't hopped on this talking point, but Trump continues to demand the end of remote work for federal workers while spending an awful lot of time at his home in Mar A La. This talking point is an easy alley oop. I mean, he's claiming remote workers are probably golfing and then he goes to Mar a Lago and golfs on a Tuesday. When I say Democrats messaging seems out to see not even trying to go up and dunk these easy lobs from the president is exactly what I mean. Number 13 there was an assortment of nonsense. Trump claimed we're going to balance the budget, but he just pushed the House to pass a bill that will add literal trillions to the debt and deficit. He claimed free speech is back, but he's banning newsrooms from the White House for not using Gulf of America and just pushed a crackdown on protests at college campuses. Speaker Johnson reprimanded Representative Al Green for not respecting decorum in the House, but he said nothing when Representatives Lauren Boebert from Colorado and Marjorie Taylor Greene from Georgia were incredibly disrespectful. During Biden's State of the Union address, Trump again publicly said Musk is leading doge, but in court, the administration claims Musk doesn't even work there. Trump took credit for a $165 million investment from the Taiwanese chip maker TSMC, an investment made possible by the Chips act passed on a bipartisan basis under Biden, but trashed the bill just minutes later. And number 14 also for the record, Trump promised to pass no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, and no tax on Social Security benefits. Just last week, some Republican members of Congress were claiming they already passed those policies in the budget bill, which was a lie. But it was funny to see Trump just promised these things were coming after members of his party purported they had happened already. Number 15 it's getting lost in all the noise. But Trump is proposing a gold card for immigration at the same time he's challenging birthright citizenship. He wants to sell U.S. citizenship for $5 million a pop. Trump thinks he can sell 10 million gold guards, which would create $50 trillion in revenue. That's not happening. I can't tell if this is a brilliant or stupid idea. He basically wants to take an existing program and just multiply its cost by 5. But he seems genuinely attached to it and I think he's really going to try it. Interestingly, the plan has drawn some fire from Ryan Gardusky, one of his most ardent populist supporters. Number 16. My personal favorite moment of the night was the Mark Fogel moment. I had no idea Trump had met with his mother in Butler, Pennsylvania the day Trump was almost assassinated. What a remarkable and incredible story. And wild that Trump got him home in a matter of weeks after he spent almost the entire Biden administration trapped in Russia. And finally, number 17. I also thought Trump's final flourish was the best speech writing from this administration so far. I'm a sucker for the pitch that America is a country of doers and dreamers and survivors and that we should always tell our story as a proud, free, sovereign, independent nation, loudly and with our chest. We do stand on the shoulders of the pioneers Trump listed, and this is really him at his best. Sometimes I wish he would just do that. We'll be right back after this quick break. To make switching to the new Boost Mobile risk free, we're offering a 30 day money back guarantee.
- [28:05]
Marc Maron
So why wouldn't you switch from Verizon or T Mobile?
- [28:08]
Isaac Saul
Because you have nothing to lose. Boost Mobile is offering a 30 day money back guarantee.
- [28:12]
Marc Maron
No, I asked why wouldn't you switch from Verizon, Verizon or T Mobile? Wouldn't.
- [28:16]
Isaac Saul
Because you love wasting money as a way to punish yourself because your mother never showed you enough love as a child.
- [28:22]
Marc Maron
Whoa, easy there.
- [28:23]
Isaac Saul
Yeah.
- [28:24]
Marc Maron
Applies to online activations. Requires port in and autopay. Customers activating in stores may be charged non refundable activation fees. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [28:59]
Isaac Saul
All right, that is it for my take. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the pod and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace.
- [29:12]
Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under the radar story for today, folks. On Thursday, Thailand deported 40 Uyghur asylum seekers to China, an effort Thai officials said they carried out at the request of the Chinese government. The deportees fled China in 2014 in an attempt to escape oppression by the Chinese government, which has detained as many as 1 million Uyghurs in internment camps and prisons. After holding the asylum seekers in Bangkok for more than a decade, Thailand's decision to send them back now signals China's growing influence in the region. U.S. secretary of State Marco Rubio condemned the decision, saying Thailand could be violating its international obligations under the UN Convention Against Torture and the International Convention on the Protection of All Persons From Enforced Disappearance. The New York Times has this story, and there's a link in today's episode Description alright, next up is our numbers section. The length of President Donald Trump's speech on Wednesday was 1 hour, 39 minutes and 32 seconds, the longest presidential address to Congress since 1964, according to the American Presidency Project. The length of President Bill Clinton's State of the Union address in 2000, the previous record holder for the longest presidential address to Congress was 1 hour, 28 minutes and 49 seconds. The average length of President Trump's State of the Union address in his first term was 1 hour, 20 minutes and 20 seconds. The percentage of people who watched Trump's address who respectively approved and disapproved of the speech was 76% and 23%, according to a CBS News YouGov poll. The percentage of speechwatchers who said Trump spent a lot of time on issues they care about is 63%. The percentage of speechwatchers who respectively identified as Republican, Independent and Democrat is 51%, 27% and 20%, according to the CBS News YouGov poll. The number of times Trump mentioned tariffs during the speech was 18. The number of times Trump mentioned former President Joe Biden during The speech was 13. The number of times Trump mentioned Ukraine or Ukrainians during The speech was 11, and the number of times Trump mentioned inflation during the speech was seven. And last but not least, our have a nice day story. Garbage pollution can lead to the disruption of aquatic ecosystems and wildlife. Old Ladies Against Underwater Garbage A group of women aged 64 and older is determined to preserve Massachusetts ponds on Cape Cod and protect these ecosystems. Since 2018, the group has been diving into local ponds to extract underwater garbage, once even pulling a toilet out. I realized that it wasn't about the garbage. It's about that we have discovered a way of repairing the planet based on JOY founder Susan Bowers said. Nice news has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. All right everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, Please go to retangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. We just released an interview that Managing Editor Ari Weitzman conducted with Meredith Sumpter, the president and CEO of FairVote, a nonpartisan organization that researches and advances voting reforms, including Ranked Choice voting. There is a preview version available to take a listen to, but to listen to it in full you'll need to become a podcast or bundled membership subscriber. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace.
- [32:47]
Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will K Back daily, Saul and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bova, who is also our social Media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet75 and if you are looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website@readtangle.com that's readtangle.com.
- [33:25]
Eugenio Derbez
Hi, it's Eugenio Derbez. Did you know that with Boost Mobile you can cut your phone bill in half this tax season? Yes, half. Buy six months of service and get six months free. That's a full year of service paying half. That sounds good, doesn't it? And all on the boost network with 99% nationwide coverage. Don't wait. Visit your Boost Store to today requires.
- [33:49]
Marc Maron
Upfront payment, taxes and fees. Extra terms and exclusions apply. Visit boostmobile.com for full terms. Strap in. You're in the race with F1TV Premium. See what the race director sees with custom multiview. Watch every jaw dropping moment in Live 4K UHD across up to 6 screens. Uninterrupted experience. Ultimate live immersion with F1TV Premium available on selected devices.
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Unknown
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