Podcast Summary: Tangle – Episode: Trump’s Birthright Citizenship Comments

Host: Isaac Saul
Guest: John Law
Release Date: December 12, 2024
Episode Title: Trump’s Birthright Citizenship Comments

Introduction to the Topic

Isaac Saul opens the episode by introducing the central topic: former President Donald Trump's efforts to end birthright citizenship in the United States. He outlines the discussion's framework, which includes the historical background of the 14th Amendment, Trump’s proposals, and diverse viewpoints from across the political spectrum.

Notable Quote:
Isaac Saul [01:50]: “On today's episode, we're going to be talking about the birthright citizenship debate. That's right. Donald Trump is pushing to end birthright citizenship.”

Current Developments

John Law provides an overview of recent developments related to birthright citizenship, highlighting Trump’s intention to seek changes through executive actions or potentially a constitutional amendment.

Notable Quote:
John Law [06:48]: “You promised to end birthright citizenship on day one. Is that still your plan?”

Historical Context: The 14th Amendment and Legal Precedents

The discussion delves into the 14th Amendment’s Citizenship Clause, which guarantees citizenship to all persons born or naturalized in the United States. The Supreme Court’s 1898 decision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark affirmed the constitutionality of jus soli (birthplace-based citizenship).

Notable Quote:
Isaac Saul [07:00]: “The citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment guarantees citizenship to all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

Trump’s Proposal to End Birthright Citizenship

John Law elaborates on Trump’s proposal, including his statements in an interview with NBC’s Kristen Welker, where he called birthright citizenship “ridiculous” and suggested executive actions to restrict citizenship to children with at least one citizen or lawful permanent resident parent.

Notable Quote:
John Law [07:06]: “In his interview with Welker, Trump suggested that he could take the issue back to the people if executive action failed, suggesting passing a constitutional amendment.”

Perspectives from the Right

The right-leaning viewpoints are explored, presenting arguments favoring Trump's stance:

1. Amy Swerer (Daily Signal): Argues that Trump can end universal birthright citizenship by interpreting the 14th Amendment’s “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause to exclude unauthorized immigrants.

   Notable Quote:
   Amy Swerer [08:20]: “Subject to the jurisdiction thereof meant not owing allegiance to any other country.”

2. Daniel McCarthy (New York Post): Suggests that ending birthright citizenship could help address the border crisis by preventing unauthorized immigrants from gaining citizenship through birth.

   Notable Quote:
   Daniel McCarthy [09:00]: “Trump is trying to restore us to the understanding of citizenship held by the framers of the amendment that guaranteed equal protection for all Americans.”

3. Jason L. Reilly (Wall Street Journal): Criticizes Trump’s approach, arguing that ending birthright citizenship would counteract efforts to reduce the illegal population and punish children for their parents' immigration status.

   Notable Quote:
   Jason L. Reilly [10:15]: “Ending birthright citizenship would almost certainly be at cross purposes with his larger goal.”

Perspectives from the Left

Left-leaning viewpoints strongly oppose Trump’s proposal, emphasizing the constitutional guarantees and potential social repercussions:

1. Jeff Jacoby (Boston Globe): Asserts that birthright citizenship is a constitutional right protected by the 14th Amendment and cannot be unilaterally revoked by the president.

   Notable Quote:
   Jeff Jacoby [12:04]: “Birthright citizenship is a constitutional mandate enshrined in the 14th Amendment.”

2. Max Burns (The Hill): Labels Trump’s plan as “authoritarianism 101,” arguing that it undermines democratic principles and constitutional interpretations.

   Notable Quote:
   Max Burns [12:45]: “Birthright citizenship is a constitutional right that Trump can't revoke.”

3. Ed Kilgore (New York Magazine): Suggests that Trump’s attack on birthright citizenship is part of a broader strategy to implement restrictive immigration policies, potentially paving the way for more draconian measures.

   Notable Quote:
   Ed Kilgore [13:30]: “Trump and Miller may simply want to begin their nativist crusade with the most expansive and audacious proposals in their arsenal.”

Isaac Saul’s Analysis

Isaac Saul offers his perspective, expressing skepticism about the feasibility of Trump successfully ending birthright citizenship. He highlights the strength of judicial precedents and the constitutional challenges such an executive action would face.

Key Points:

1. Legal Feasibility: Doubts the likelihood of the Supreme Court supporting Trump's efforts to override established precedents like Wong Kim Ark.

   Notable Quote:
   Isaac Saul [20:20]: “I am extremely skeptical that Trump is going to change birthright citizenship or related precedent in the United States.”

2. Global Context: Contradicts Trump’s assertion that the U.S. is unique in its birthright citizenship by noting that over 30 countries, including Canada and Mexico, have similar laws.

   Notable Quote:
   Isaac Saul [21:10]: “It is not true that other countries don't have birthright citizenship laws.”

3. Debate on the 14th Amendment’s Interpretation: While recognizing the historical and legal complexities, Saul argues that the majority consensus and long-standing interpretations make it unlikely for Trump's efforts to succeed without significant constitutional changes.

   Notable Quote:
   Isaac Saul [22:50]: “The language in the amendment itself is not at all crystal clear, and its historical context obscures its meaning.”

Listener’s Questions: Hyperpartisanship and Public Perception

A listener from St. Louis, Missouri, raises a question comparing public reactions to different acts of violence against corporate figures versus military personnel, prompting a broader discussion on societal polarizations.

Isaac Saul’s Response:

• Hyperpartisanship: Highlights how extreme political divides enforce binary thinking, where disagreements escalate to viewing opponents as enemies.

  Notable Quote:
  Isaac Saul [29:07]: “Our environment of hyperpartisanship seems to always force people to an extreme.”

• False Equivalences: Critiques the tendency to equate unrelated events, emphasizing the importance of nuanced understanding over simplified narratives.

  Notable Quote:
  Isaac Saul [29:07]: “The question isn't about which of those things is worse, it's about why people are so forgiving of one and not the other.”

Conclusions and Reflections

Isaac Saul concludes by reiterating his skepticism regarding the success of Trump's birthright citizenship initiatives. He underscores the entrenched legal and societal frameworks that uphold the current interpretation of the 14th Amendment, suggesting that significant constitutional amendments would be required to effectuate such changes.

Notable Quote:
Isaac Saul [27:33]: “We have over a hundred years of precedent behind the accepted interpretation of the 14th Amendment.”

Additional Content

While the primary focus of the episode centers on Trump’s birthright citizenship comments, the podcast also includes other segments such as:

• News Highlights: Covering topics like the resignation of FBI Director Christopher Wray, Hamas’ ceasefire negotiations, the halted Kroger-Albertsons merger, President Biden’s clemency actions, and the legal battle over The Onion’s attempt to purchase Infowars.

• Listener Engagement: Addressing questions from listeners about societal issues related to hyperpartisanship and public perception.

• Statistical Insights: Presenting data on unauthorized births, public opinion on citizenship, and attitudes towards constitutional changes.

• Under the Radar Stories: Highlighting issues like the surge in coffee bean prices and efforts to combat animal trafficking.

Note: Advertisements, sponsorship messages, and promotional content have been excluded from this summary to maintain focus on the episode's substantive discussions.

Final Thoughts

This episode of Tangle provides a comprehensive examination of the contentious issue of birthright citizenship in the United States, contextualizing Trump’s proposals within historical legal frameworks and contemporary political debates. Through balanced perspectives from both sides of the political spectrum and thoughtful analysis by host Isaac Saul, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities surrounding citizenship laws and immigration policy.