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- [00:00]
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- [00:31]
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- [01:07]
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- [02:26]
Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead
From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
- [02:41]
Senior Editor Will K. Back
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. And welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of our take. I'm your host today Senior Editor Will K Back. It is the first Wednesday of June and in addition to bringing the impending excitement of summer, it's a great day to be a basketball fan. And that's because the San Antonio spurs are hosting the New York Knicks in game one of the NBA Finals tonight. And somehow a New York sports team contending for a championship is not the biggest story of the series. And that's because the biggest topic, and I'm talking both literally and metaphorically, is the Spurs 7 foot 5, 22 year old French phenomenon Victor Wembanyama, who frankly is unlike any athlete that I've ever seen. I'm a fan of his for several reasons. He has a kind of surreal grace on the court, but he also is unabashedly vulnerable about expressing his emotions when he plays and his passion for his craft of basketball. So I'm super excited for this series and I think Wembanyama makes tuning in worthwhile. Even if you're not a big sports or basketball fan. The NBA is in a really unique moment right now and Wembanyama is a big part of that. So I'm very excited for that and it should be a fun week and a half or so ahead. All right, basketball excitement for me aside, let's get back into the political story of the day. We're going to be wading into Bill Pulte's appointment as the acting Director of National Intelligence, which has raised some eyebrows and and then some across the political spectrum. Then we'll round out today's edition with an update on Gaza as well as some history on the U.S. intelligence community and how the Director of National Intelligence position came to be in the first place. I'm going to pass it over to Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead to get us started and then I'll be back in a bit to read my take Audrey over to you.
- [04:43]
Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead
Thanks, Will. Let's get into today's quick hits. Number one, Secretary of State Marco Rubio told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the Iran war is over, though he acknowledged that a deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz and curtail Iran's nuclear program may not be reached. Number two, acting Attorney General Todd Blanche told the House Appropriations Committee that the Justice Department is ending its plan to create an anti weaponization fund, saying he still believes the idea is important but will no longer pursue it. Number three, with 57.5% of votes counted, conservative commentator Steve Hilton, a Republican, and former Health Secretary Xavier Becerra, a Democrat, lead the California gubernatorial primary with businessman Tom Steyer, also a Democrat, in third. Separately, Mayor Karen Bass, a Democrat, is projected to advance to the general election for Los Angeles mayor, while Republican former reality television star Spencer Pratt is in second place with 63.1% of votes counted. The Supreme Court issued an unsigned order allowing Alabama to use a congressional map designed to net Republicans one seat in the US House in the 2026 midterms. The court found that a lower court had erred in ruling that the map was racially discriminatory. Number five CBS News fired 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley following a tense meeting with Nick Bilton, the program's new executive producer and staff, in which Peli sharply criticized CBS News editor in chief Bari Weiss's decision making and Bilton's qualifications.
- [06:27]
Senior Editor Will K. Back
As someone who has served the country for most of his adult life in the CIA. Just your thoughts on someone not only who has no experience with intelligence, but also who clearly views his first job is to be loyal to President Trump and to go after his political enemies. He's already shown that in his current job overseeing now 18American intelligence agencies. So Willie, when I first heard this, actually I think I first read it on X. I thought it was a joke.
- [06:54]
Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead
On Tuesday, President Donald Trump announced that he is naming housing official Bill Pulte to serve as acting director of National Intelligence once Tulsi Gabbard steps down as director at the end of the month. Gabbard is resigning his DNI to support her husband during his battle with a rare form of bone cancer, and the White House has not advanced a nominee to serve as Gabbard's permanent replacement. Pulte reportedly earned President Trump's favor with a willingness to go after the administration's political opponents. The FHFA director spearheaded the efforts to oust former Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and was instrumental in investigations into a variety of figures, including New York Attorney General Letitia James, California Democratic Senator Adam Schiff, former California Democratic Representative Eric Swalwell and Federal Reserve Board Governor Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage fraud. Pulte has also floated the idea of a 50 year mortgage and drawn attention for a reported spat with Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. In a truth social post, President Trump said william Pulte has deep experience managing the most sensitive matters in America, the safety and soundness of the markets and over $10 trillion at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, a substantial increase from where it was just 12 months ago. During this period, he will remain director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency and chairman of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The nomination drew a mixed response from Republicans, including outright criticism from Senate Majority Leader John Thune, a Republican from South Dakota. Thune said, quote, we don't need a weaponized dni. We need professionals there. Representative Claudia Tenney, a Republican out of New York, defended Pulte's appointment saying director Pulte has managed some of the most sensitive issues in our economy and has a proven record of leadership. Democrats were uniformly critical of the selection. Representative Jim Himes, a ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee and a Democrat out of Connecticut, said Pulte has no relevant experience and his sole qualification is unconditional devotion to Donald Trump. Additionally, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, a Democrat out of New York, called Pulte, quote, a partisan thug with no experience in intelligence. Next up, we'll get into what the right and left are saying about Pulte's appointment and then Senior Editor Will K back will give his take
- [09:10]
Progressive Insurance Ad Announcer
foreign.
- [09:16]
Senior Editor Will K. Back
We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [09:22]
Progressive Insurance Ad Announcer
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- [09:58]
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- [11:06]
Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead
What the Ride is Saying the ride is mixed on the pick, with many questioning Pulte's intelligence credentials. Some argue Pulte's atypical background will serve him well. Others say Trump's choice confronts recent resistance from the Senate. In national review, Andrew C. McCarthy called Pulte's appointment astounding. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence should never have been established in the first place, an overcorrection in the 911 aftermath. Its short history has featured too many episodes of politicizing intelligence. That said, President Trump's naming of Bill Pulte to replace the recently departed Gabbard is astounding. As director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Pulte has demonstrated himself to be a loyalist whose main task has been to peruse the database in search of contradictory statements and filings that the Trump Justice Department has tried to inflate into fraud cases against Trump Trump political enemies. It seems obvious that Pulte's main credential to serve as acting national intelligence director is a willingness to pour over government files and now highly classified government files and fit them into the political narrative that Trump's rivals must be charged with crimes. There is already howling on Capitol Hill. Democrats say the sky is falling and Republicans seem less than eager to rally behind the Pulte pick. Still, I don't see how Pulte's appointment as acting DNI can be blocked. I'd scrap the ODNI altogether, but I'd have done that regardless of Pulte. It's not the way Washington works. The Washington Reporter editorial board praised Pulte as an inspired pick. Pulte, one longtime Hill staffer told the Washington Reporter, is deeply respected among conservative policy staffers for his business acumen and his ability to handle tough intelligence issues. That skillset will be critical as Pulte steps into the front lines of America's conflicts with China, Russia, Iran and their proxies in our own hemisphere. He is no doubt an unorthodox choice for the role. However, picking someone with a non typical background who is immensely talented and respected has been the approach that has allowed President Trump to succeed so well. Polti brings the management skills, the integrity and the relationships needed to be an enormously effective director of national intelligence. He is fully aligned with Trump on issues like the Maximum Pressure campaign against Iran and peace through strength. He is an inspired pick by an inspired president. Every American who is concerned about our safety and security can rest a little easier tonight knowing that Pulte is overseeing our intelligence agencies. In the Dispatch, Nick Katoggio said Trump's decision responds to a Senate that's begun to resist his most loathsome impulses. Pulte was confirmed by the Senate to lead the fhfa. That's important. It's important because under the Federal Vacancies Reform act, the default choice to fill a vacant position in an acting capacity is the first assistance, but there's an Any Senate confirmed officer serving anywhere in the government can fill the position temporarily instead, if the president desires. You can understand why Congress wrote the law that way. Naively, lawmakers assumed that anyone nominated for a powerful position and confirmed by the Senate would necessarily have the competence and integrity to serve in another powerful position briefly while a permanent appointee is chosen. That the president might nominate henchmen and that a compliant Senate might rubber stamp them seems not to have occurred to them. On top of everything else, naming Pulte to a position this sensitive is Trump's way of extending a middle finger to a Senate that's begun to resist his most loathsome impulses. Now what the left is the left strongly opposes the selection, calling Pulte an unserious choice in serious times. Some view the appointment as yet another unwise pick from Trump. Others say Pulte's only mandate is pursuing Trump's enemies. In Bloomberg, Andreas Kluth said Pulte will drag U.S. intelligence from bad to worse. Veterans of the intelligence community worried that blind loyalty to Trump rather than expertise was the new standard and that America's spies were losing the ability and willingness to speak truth to power at a potential cost of American lives. Pulte, though, appears to be worse. He seems even less qualified for the job than Gabbard, who at least had military experience. Palti was just another MAGA crony, notorious among those in the know but obscure to the wider public. That will change if he becomes DNI and wields real power by whispering into Trump's ear which domestic politician to investigate or which foreign country to bomb, nobody can plausibly argue that Pulte was chosen for any competence in the immensely sensitive and important functions of a dni. At a time when America is fighting on again, off again in the Middle east, contemplating strikes in Cuba and elsewhere, and hoping to deter the real adversaries in places like Beijing. Decisions to nominate lackeys such as Bill Pulte are worse than irresponsible. They show a president who has lost the plot, a leader who cares not a whit for America but always and only puts POTUS first in Ms. Now. Steve Bennon called Pulte's appointment Trump's latest radical personnel move. While previous directors of the FHFA were obscure figures who were unknown to the public, Pulte has blazed a rather unusual trail. By contrast, to an almost cartoonish degree, the Trump sycophant has taken it upon himself to target one White House foe after another, weaponizing mortgage fraud allegations against the president's perceived political enemies. What does this work have to do with serving as the acting Director of National Intelligence? By any reasonable measure, nothing. Though for Trump, who clearly wants unflinching loyalists in as many key positions as possible, Pulte's actions are a key selling point. The Government Accountability Office opened an investigation into Pulte's alleged abuses in the fall. And around the same time, MsNow reported that a federal grand jury in Maryland was investigating whether Pulte and Justice Department official Ed Martin illegally shared sensitive grand jury information with unauthorized people. With a background like this, common sense suggests it would be wise to keep Pulte as far away from the ODNI as possible. Alas, in this White House, common sense is apparently in short supply. In the Atlantic, Shane Harris explored what Trump wants from Bill Pulte. The President has shown no sign that he wants a DNI who can coordinate the work of 18 intelligence agencies and harness the power of a multi billion dollar global espionage network to provide senior government leaders the best up to the minute information about threats to US national security. No, what Trump has made very clear is that he wants a DNI who will selectively declassify government documents that help fuel conspiracy theories, use the authorities of the state to enact political retribution against his enemies, and try to persuade Americans that Venezuela and maybe the Democratic Party are rigging elections by fiddling with the voting machines. From that perspective, Bill Pulte is even better suited for the job than the woman he's replacing. Never mind that none of Pulte's targets has gone to prison and that some insist he is attempting to criminalize paperwork errors. Pulte has been a tireless fighter for the president. Gabbard was widely regarded as an unserious leader and political loyalist. No one imagined that Trump would replace her with someone better qualified. But Pulte managed to defy even those low expectations. That's it for what the right and the left are saying now. I'll hand it back off to senior editor Will K. Back for his take.
- [18:48]
Senior Editor Will K. Back
Thanks, Audrey. Hey, everybody, this is Will. Back here to read my take. Growing up, you'd hear the phrase, just keep swimming a lot in my house. It originated from Dory, the regal blue tang in Finding Nemo. But over time, it evolved away from Dory's more cheerful encouragement to push through when times get tough and into another way for my parents to say, don't take the bait when your sibling is antagonizing you. Now, as I've gotten older, I'VE actually come back to this maxim all the time, particularly as trollish behavior becomes ever more common in our culture and our politics. To this day, it's pretty difficult to get me riled up about a tweet, an inflammatory remark or an insult, and I like to think that this trait makes me well suited for the work that we do here at Tangle. But no one has put that more to the test than President Trump. Whether you like or dislike him, I think we can all agree that he revels in trolling, and he also effectively uses incendiary language to shift attention away from political challenge when things aren't going his way. That tactic from any political figure, not just Trump, relies on all of us taking the bait. But this is also the president, and the impact of Trump's words and actions is different than a sibling's pestering or antagonism. Nominating Bill Pulte as acting Director of National Intelligence is more than just a troll or a middle finger to the establishment. For one, the DNI position is not a cushy ambassadorship or a seat on a presidential advisory board, but a Senate confirmed position with significant responsibilities. And second, and perhaps more concerning, Pulte's nomination shows that the highest levels of our intelligence community are being further impacted by Trump's penchant for prioritizing loyalty over experience. Trump is again not the first or the last politician to put a premium on loyalty, but he's taking it to new levels without apparent concern for any bipartisan blowback he's receiving. I should say, before we get any deeper, I'm not surprised that Pulte won himself a high profile appointment. It's pretty clear why the president likes him. Their backgrounds are remarkably similar. They're members of wealthy families with real estate and construction backgrounds who both rose to prominence in part on their ability to create spectacle. Pulte is not a star on the level of Trump and the Apprentice, but I remember him well for his viral Twitter philanthropy back when he would give away expensive gifts and cash prizes on Twitter, which actually earned him Trump's attention and praise all the way back in 2019. In another move that shows his similarities with the president, Pulte once created an online award for philanthropy, named himself the winner, and then made sure that the press picked it up. I think that Trump and Pulte probably get along great now. The New Acton DNI is also, in my opinion, the member of the second Trump administration who has most doggedly pursued the president's personal interests or grievances as the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, a relatively obscure federal agency. He's been a catalyst in criminal investigations into former Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, New York Attorney General Letitia James, Senator Adam Schiff, and Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, as well as the ouster of former U.S. attorney Eric Siebert over his objection to charging James and former FBI Director James Comey. There's punching above your weight, and then there's Pulte. Now the Federal Vacancies Reform act limits Pulte's time as acting DNI to 210 days, though he could potentially stay on longer depending how the process of nominating a replacement goes. I also think there's close to zero chance that the Senate would ever confirm him, and I doubt that President Trump is even considering that idea. But 210 days is a long time, and Kolty will have expansive power to push investigations into Trump's political enemies while he in this role. Outgoing DNI Tulsi Gabbard got the ball rolling here, making a litany of moves aligned with the president's revenge streak. She declassified materials related to allegations of an Obama administration conspiracy to subvert Trump's 2016 campaign and other documents related to allegations of a conspiracy to impeach Trump during his first term. She also revoked security clearances for dozens of former intelligence and national security officers who ostensibly weaponized information against the president. And finally, she fired top intelligence officials believed to oppose the president and his administration. No doubt Pulte is there to do more of the same. This motive, more than his lack of qualifications, concerns me most about this appointment. The best case scenario that I see is that Pulte's strategy of politicized investigations has run its course, as all the aforementioned cases that he catalyzed seem to have now fizzled out. A more plausible and not best but still good case scenario is that Pulte becomes mired in the complex web of the US Intelligence apparatus and is unable to accomplish much of anything. But hoping that he's too incompetent to be damaging is pretty ominous. In itself and in reality, I think Pulte will make an impact. Gabbard was relatively unqualified herself to serve as DNI and still engineered her office to root out perceived disloyalty and advance the president's claims of grand conspiracies against him. As acting director, Pulte will have the same statutory powers as Gabbard, but without the Senate oversight. And while the investigations into Powell, James and others may be dead, it would be foolish to think that President Trump's retribution campaigns will stop there. Will Pulte face some institutional barriers and resistance? Yes, absolutely. But he comes off as tenacious and unafraid to butt heads with powerful figures. Again, this profile makes him an ideal ally to the president, but troubling for the rest of us. That's to say nothing of his lack of qualifications, which Republicans and Democrats alike have been quick to point out. Now, I don't think that on paper, qualifications are all that matter in an appointee, but some relevant experience is necessary for important positions like this, and Pulte has none. There's no good time for bad national intelligence leadership, but this moment is particularly fraught. National security risks are everywhere. The Iran war, the Ukraine war, rising tensions with Cuba, crackdowns on cartels, and more. And the person leading the 18 intelligence community agencies, managing the national intelligence budget and serving as principal national security advisor to the president will be someone without a single line on their resume that suggests they're prepared for this responsibility. Pulte is apparently keeping his current job as the Federal Housing Finance Agency director, too, meaning that these weighty responsibilities will effectively be his side gig. Now, everything I've said in this take comes with one big caveat. Trump could still reverse his decision. Punchbowl News just reported this morning that Senator Mark Warner, a Democrat from Virginia, is threatening that Democrats could withhold their votes for reauthorizing section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act if the president doesn't withdraw Polti's appointment. If Democrats follow through on this threat, or the bipartisan objection to the pick just becomes too loud, Trump may decide it's not worth the fight. Now, if you've heard any of my recent takes, you probably recognize a tone of discouragement at the end, and today is unfortunately going to be no different. I am worried about the path that these decisions are sending us down. I am worried about the toll of more politicized investigations and prosecutions that are certainly to come. I'm worried that if we face a real national security crisis, we'll have an inept leader in a critical role. I'm worried about unchecked executive power as the president uses acting appointments to sidestep Senate oversight. And above all, I am worried that as President Trump stares down sinking approval ratings, rising dissent in the Senate, a costly conflict in Iran, and ongoing legal setbacks, he'll look to consolidate his inner circle with more Bill Pulte's looking to seek revenge. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [27:18]
Progressive Insurance Ad Announcer
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- [27:54]
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- [29:03]
Senior Editor Will K. Back
All right, that is it for my take. And now let's get into today's question from our audience, which comes from Kira in Omaha, Nebraska. Kira asks what is happening in Gaza? We haven't heard anything lately. Is there reconstruction occurring? How are the Palestinian people and who is running that area of the world right now? Here's our response. It's not totally accurate to say Israel is in control, but Israel is in control. The ceasefire that ended the active fighting for now went into effect on October 10, 2025, and it significantly reduced the violence in Gaza. 738 Palestinians have been killed in the seven or so months since that ceasefire, which left the Israeli Defense Forces in control of approximately half of Gaza. Since then, Israel's footprint has grown. The IDF has issued new maps showing it controls significantly more territory beyond what was agreed to in that ceasefire, with the restricted zone now making up roughly two thirds of Gaza. And this past week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered the army to seize 70% of the territory or more. While all this is happening in Gaza, Israeli settlers have also been expanding in the west bank, and Israel has been fighting Lebanon on its northern border, a conflict that has played a major role in the Iran war ceasefire negotiations. As for Hamas, it continues to refuse to disarm in accordance with the terms of the ceasefire and is attempting to reassert control over parts of the Strip. Meanwhile, President Trump's Board of Peace, which is responsible for ushering in reconstruction, has not been active in enforcing the ceasefire's terms. In May, US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee said that the IDF may end up being the only entity willing to actually disarm Hamas. Additionally, the reconstruction process hasn't started in any meaningful way. A joint United Nations European Union assessment released in April found that Gaza's Reconstruction will require $71.4 billion over the next decade, and that means rebuilding over 371,888 housing units, over half of Gaza's hospitals, and nearly all of its school. The Gaza Board of peace has received $17 billion of pledges, but it has collected just $23 million to fund its operations so far, or about 0.03% of the UN's estimated costs. So with all that said, the bottom line is that violence has decreased in Gaza relative to the pre ceasefire period, but both the reconstruction process and the peace process have stalled and Israel has been asserting greater military control over the Gaza Strip. All right, now I'm going to hand it back over to Audrey to take us home. Audrey, over to you.
- [32:00]
Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead
Thanks, Will. Next up, I have our under the Radar story. On Tuesday, President Donald Trump signed an executive order requesting that technology companies allow government oversight of new artificial intelligence models before releasing them publicly. The President reportedly planned to sign an executive order on AI oversight last month, but it was scrapped at the last minute due to concerns that a planned 90 day window for the government to review new models before their release would lead to overregulation. The new Executive order includes a 30 day voluntary review window as well as plans for the Treasury Secretary to review security weaknesses discovered by AI models. The New York Times has the story and you can find the link in our show notes. Next up, we have a deeper look. In 1946, in the aftermath of World War II, President Harry Truman created the post of Director of Central Intelligence, or dci, in order to better organize the burgeoning national intelligence community. The role was formalized by the national security Act of 1947, which created the Central Intelligence Agency, or CIA, and offered a concrete definition of the DCI's role. The DCI would personally oversee the CIA and coordinate the intelligence groups in the US Government, including the various intelligence branches of the military. Following the September 11th terrorist attacks, Congress created the 911 Commission to investigate the United States preparedness and its ability to prevent future attacks. The commission's report, released in July 2004, identified significant U.S. intelligence failures and recommended a restructuring of government intelligence offices, including splitting the DCI's responsibilities into two one overseeing the CIA and another coordinating intelligence efforts across the government. In response, Congress passed the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention act of 2004, officially establishing the position of Director of National Intelligence, or dni, as part of the executive branch. President George W. Bush nominated John D. Negroponte to be the first DNI in February 2005. After Nagarponte's confirmation, the office began operations in April 2005. And last, but certainly not least, we have our have a nice day story. When farmer Rudy Naish started taking care of his wife, who has dementia and has had both hips replaced, he realized he didn't know how to cook and wanted to give her better meals. Nysch's neighbor of 10 years, police officer Tyler Butler Butterworth, stepped in to help. After Naich told Butterworth about his problem, Butterworth offered to teach Naich to cook. Butterworth taught him to make dishes like marinated pork tenderloin, kale salad and Peri Peri chicken. Naish said, quote, as I learn to cook better meals, more nutritious ones, my wife is doing better as a result. It was just as simple as Tyler says, well, I love to cook. Won't you let me teach you to cook? NBC News Today has and you can find it in the Show Notes. That's all for TODAY folks. If you would like to support our work, head over to retangle.com, where you can buy a newsletter subscription, a podcast subscription or a bundle that gets you a discount on both. We will be right back tomorrow. For Isaac and everyone else, this has been Associate Editor Audrey Moorhead. Have a nice day and peace.
- [35:22]
Senior Editor Will K. Back
Our Executive Editor and Founder is me, Isaac Saul and our Executive Producer Producer is John Wall. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman with Senior Editor Will K. Back and Associate Editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsay Knuth and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website@retangle.com.
- [36:01]
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- [36:21]
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