Tangle Podcast: “Week Three of the Government Shutdown”

Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Isaac Saul
Main Theme: Three weeks into the historic full government shutdown, the Tangle team explores political arguments from both left and right, analyzes government dysfunction, and discusses the broader implications for American democracy and daily life.

Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the longest full government shutdown in U.S. history, now in its third week. Host Isaac Saul, with reporting from John Law and a dissent from Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, provides a platform for viewpoints across the political spectrum as well as his own analysis. Rather than just covering partisan blame, the podcast digs into the unique dynamics of the ongoing standoff, including executive overreach, the real root causes, and the shifting pain points for each party.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown Status and Political Deadlock

• Shutdown Details: As of day 21, the Senate has failed 11 times to advance a House-passed funding measure. The government remains at a standstill with essential services like air traffic control operational, but many federal workers are furloughed or working without pay ([05:06]–[05:28]).
• Political Impasse: House Speaker Mike Johnson blames Democrats, while Democrats criticize aggressive administration layoffs and selective funding freezes targeting blue cities.
• Historic Context: Only the partial shutdown in 2018-2019 (35 days) lasted longer. This is the longest full shutdown on record.

2. Shutdown’s Impact: Agencies, Programs, and Political Maneuvering

• Federal Agency Effects: National Nuclear Security Administration and Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts among hardest hit; Supreme Court closed to the public ([05:06]–[08:16]).
• Move to Cut Workforce: “We want to be very aggressive where we can be in shuttering the bureaucracy, not just the funding.” — Russell Vought, White House Budget Director ([05:28]).
• Targeted Pain: Infrastructure and climate projects in Democratic cities have been frozen or canceled, prompting accusations of political punishment.

3. Views from the Left ([09:55]–[13:55])

• Broader Battle: Many on the left argue Democrats should use the shutdown to push back on Trump’s executive power grabs and government dismantling.
• Expanded Impact: “...for drawing Americans' attention to the de facto Trump shutdown that predates it and that unfortunately will outlast it.” — Jackie Collins, LA Times ([12:21]).
• Complex Political Calculus: Democrats aim to preserve ACA (Obamacare) subsidies set to expire, warning millions risk losing health coverage.
• Trump’s Unorthodox Moves: The president is using executive authority to keep select programs alive, daring Democrats to challenge the legality.

Notable Quotes (Left)

• “This is just a fight about a looming health care cliff, using the leverage of needing Democratic votes… to demand that Republicans avert a crisis of millions… losing their insurance.”
  — David Dayen, American Prospect ([10:20])
• “Trump has been dismantling many of the government’s domestic programs for nine months with an abandon that disregards federal laws and the Constitution’s separation of powers…”
  — Jackie Collins, LA Times ([11:08])
• “The White House is essentially daring Democrats to sue, in which case they would be responsible for the lack of military payments. But Democrats aren’t taking the bait.”
  — Matthew Iglesias, Bloomberg ([12:53])

4. Views from the Right ([13:55]–[16:55])

• Democratic Strategy Called a “Losing Proposition”: GOP voices urge holding the line against ACA subsidy extensions; argue shutdown is revealing “excess” government for possible permanent cuts.
• Efficiency Audit Analogy: “Close the whole thing down and see what breaks. This is what Elon Musk did at Twitter... restore only what proved necessary.” — Daniel Huff, Wall Street Journal ([16:27])
• Rejection of “Wokeism”: Arguments urge Democrats to drop focus on identity politics and instead return to centrism and economic growth.
• Fiscal Responsibility Framing: Republicans claim Democrats’ approach to healthcare is fiscally reckless and that existing ACA subsidies are “still rather generous.”

Notable Quotes (Right)

• “Most common sense Americans understand that there is no reason paying America’s warriors should be held hostage to arcane debates over housing policy.”
  — Josh Hamer, Newsweek ([14:47])
• “Each funding impasse has collectively produced the world’s largest organizational efficiency study.”
  — Daniel Huff, WSJ ([16:50])

5. Isaac Saul’s Take ([17:55]–[25:41])

• Absence of Central Issue: Unlike previous shutdowns, this one is not defined by a singular dispute (e.g., border wall, ACA itself, or Medicare cuts). Instead, it’s about “power,” “governing by breaking it,” and distract-and-divide strategies.
• Root Cause: The shutdown is a symptom of unsustainable government spending—expanded, pandemic-funded programs promised as “temporary” that voters expect to persist, with neither side willing to pay for them.
• Unorthodox Executive Actions: Trump’s moves to keep military and select programs funded during the shutdown (via questionable legality) may dull public outrage.
• Political Pain Points:
  • For Democrats: Public disruption (e.g., Thanksgiving airport chaos) could force compromise.
  • For Republicans/Trump: Pain already felt by farmers, military, but selective funding tries to blunt backlash.
• Deadlock Outlook: “Truthfully, my best guess is we see little to no movement until the problems become untenable for the public... nightmarish travel delays, disappearing food stamps, impossibly long waits…” ([24:30]).
• Blame Distribution: Recent polling shows 39% of adults blame Trump/GOP, 33% Democrats, 20% both ([31:15]).

Notable Quotes (Isaac Saul)

• “Nobody seems interested in actually reopening the government. There are no urgent meetings… Congress is not even convening to find a solution.” ([18:41])
• “We are $37.9 trillion in debt, no plan to pay for the most popular, important or expensive government programs, and nothing to do but try to distract voters into hating the other side on fabricated or irrelevant grounds.” ([21:30])
• “They’re displaying a sort of ‘governing by breaking it’ attitude first adopted by Trump but now taken up by the party wholesale.” ([24:00])

6. Staff Dissent – Ari Weitzman ([25:41]–[26:50])

• Speaker Mike Johnson’s Role Overlooked:
  • The Speaker is responsible for shepherding appropriations but House dysfunction persists.
  • “Johnson did not invent House dysfunction, but he did say he’d help to resolve it. He decidedly has not.”
• Core Problem: Entrenched inability of the House to pass periodic, manageable funding bills leads to constant all-or-nothing standoffs.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Speaker | Quote | Timestamp | |------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | David Dayen | “...to win the shutdown, Democrats need a big switch in public. This is just a fight about a looming health care cliff…” | 10:20 | | Russell Vought | “We want to be very aggressive where we can be in shuttering the bureaucracy, not just the funding.” | 05:28 | | Jackie Collins | “Even America’s foreign rivals... couldn’t have conceived of a more shockingly self-defeating course...” | 11:08 | | Daniel Huff | “Shutdowns, like Congress, run an experiment it would ordinarily never attempt… Close the whole thing down and see what breaks.” | 16:27 | | Isaac Saul | “Nobody seems interested in actually reopening the government. There are no urgent meetings…” | 18:41 | | Ari Weitzman | “Johnson did not invent House dysfunction, but he did say he’d help to resolve it. He decidedly has not.” | 26:37 |

Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments:

• Quick Hits/News Recap: [03:55]–[05:06]
• Shutdown Breakdown – Context & Impacts: [05:06]–[08:16]
• The Left’s Perspective: [09:55]–[13:55]
• The Right’s Perspective: [13:55]–[16:55]
• Isaac’s Personal Analysis: [17:55]–[25:41]
• Staff Dissent (Ari Weitzman): [25:41]–[26:50]
• Listener Q&A ('Plenary Authority'): [27:55]–[30:49]
• Numbers & Polling: [31:15]
• Under the Radar story & Closing: [30:49]–[34:01]

Additional Segments

Listener Q&A: “Plenary Authority” Explained ([27:55]–[30:49])

• Definition of Plenary Authority: Complete, comprehensive, not subject to significant limitation.
• Stephen Miller's Use: President does have broad, but not unlimited, authority to deploy National Guard; Miller’s framing labeled as “dubious.”
• Legal/Political Context: Federal courts have pushed back on blanket applications of this authority.

Fast Facts & Polling Highlights ([31:15])

• 0 of 12 appropriations bills passed by Congress.
• 89% of EPA employees furloughed; 334,900 Defense employees affected.
• Public Opinion: 39% blame Republicans/Trump; 33% blame Democrats; 20% blame both sides equally.

Conclusion

Summary: This episode paints the 2025 government shutdown as fundamentally different from past crises—less about a defined issue and more about entrenched dysfunction, unsustainable policy inertia, and political gamesmanship. Both parties are entrenched, with neither side incentivized to find swift resolution, and the only likely catalyst for action is when the public’s tolerance finally breaks.

“We’re barreling toward the longest shutdown in U.S. history… Truthfully, my best guess is we see little to no movement until the problems become untenable for the public.” — Isaac Saul ([24:30])