Diet TBPN: November 3, 2025

Summary

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TBPN: Diet TBPN — November 3, 2025

Hosts: John Coogan & Jordi Hays
Date: November 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the tech world’s reaction to a much-discussed podcast interview between investor Brad Gerstner, Satya Nadella (Microsoft CEO), and Sam Altman (OpenAI CEO). Coogan and Hays break down the viral moments, debates around OpenAI’s mind-boggling revenues and spending plans, and draw parallels between Altman, Musk, and classic Silicon Valley visionary tropes. Highlights also include ribbing on haunted houses turned data centers, Elon Musk’s latest flying car tease, and fresh insights into the internal OpenAI drama via Ilya Sutskever’s deposition.

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Key Topics and Insights

1. Haunted Houses and Data Center Gold Rush [00:00-01:16]

• The tech world's AI build-out is now so widespread that even haunted house operators (specifically at Pennsylvania’s Pennhurst Asylum) are planning to convert post-Halloween into data centers.
• Hollywood sound stages in Georgia are now being converted for hyperscalers, as the value is seen in prepping facilities to go “vertical" quickly for AI needs.
• Reference to Trump hailing $92B in AI and energy deals in Pennsylvania, with skepticism about whether too much investment is flooding in.

Quote:

“Apparently haunted houses are converting into data centers...”
– John Coogan (Host) [00:43]

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2. The Brad Gerstner-Podcast: Sam Altman’s $1.4 Trillion Answer [01:16-04:41]

The Controversy

• Gerstner, a major OpenAI investor, interviews Satya and Sam; timeline (social media) explodes at Sam Altman's evasive answer on how OpenAI will fund $1.4 trillion in AI spending, given reported revenue of just $14B.
• Debate over whether Gerstner's question was “gotcha” journalism or simply a softball that Sam Altman whiffed.

Quote:

"A lot of journalists were like, how is this happening? How is it that Sam Altman's getting a harder interview from a direct investor than with a traditional journalist?"
– John Coogan (Host) [01:48]

Altman’s Response

• Altman’s notable quote (and attitude):

“I think there’s a lot of people who would love to buy OpenAI shares... I think we, we could sell, you know, your shares or anybody else's to some of the people who are making the most noise on Twitter, whatever about this very quickly. We do plan for revenue to grow steeply.”
– Sam Altman [02:14]

• Hosts argue the answer—sell your shares—falls flat, providing little clarity to investors or the broader public.

Medium Matters

• The hosts argue Altman's body language on video made the answer more uncomfortable than it sounded in audio:

“I was listening to the audio and I was like, that's a totally reasonable answer. But when you watch the video... you can win in one medium but lose in another.”
– John Coogan (Host) [02:42]

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3. OpenAI Revenue, Spending, and the “Glut Theory” [04:41-06:48]

• Sam claims OpenAI revenue is higher than $14B, but losses are “dramatically greater” than revenue.
• The business strategy hinges on massive, continuous growth (3x annually) and potentially a home-run consumer hardware device. Otherwise, existing hyperscaler contracts could be restructured/stretched out.
• Jordi suggests the “glut theory”: Sam Altman might be “glut-pilled”—deliberately over-building AI infrastructure, thereby controlling both supply and demand.

Quote:

“I believe there’s a chance that Sam actually wants to create a massive overbuild... ultimately, he predicted a glut because he controls the demand.”
– Jordi Hays (Co-host) [05:41]

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4. Comparing Altman’s and Elon Musk’s Visionary Rhetoric [06:48-09:47]

• Altman’s answers have echoes of Musk’s style—grand promises with limited immediate clarity (e.g., “we're going to cure cancer,” “we're automating science”).
• Discussion on public image: Elon is widely seen as more likeable and has a proven track record, which earns him more benefit of the doubt compared to Sam.
• Dream-big rhetoric makes people believe, which is part of how both founders maintain their momentum (even if it makes skeptics recoil).

Quote:

“There’s a thin line between grifter and visionary, and creating true believers to harvest their capital requires rhetoric that makes non believers recoil. Elon hates Sam not just because he stole his company, but he stole his whole playbook.”
– John Coogan (Host) [08:48]

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5. The IPO, Retail Army, and OpenAI’s Internal Drama [09:47-13:50]

• Ilya Sutskever (ex-OpenAI research chief) surfaces to discuss IPO motivations: bringing in retail investors to build a “retail army” a la Tesla/Elon.
• Musk vs. Altman narratives: Elon accuses Sam of stealing OpenAI; Sam claims to have resurrected what Elon left “for dead.”
• New details on last year's OpenAI board coup: leaked memos and depositions show internal backstabbing, disagreements over leadership direction, and attempts to depose Sam and Greg Brockman.

Quote:

“One of the reasons he would want to IPO is so that he could bring not just venture capitalists, but the entire economy with him. So he wants the retail army.”
– Ilya Sutskever [10:03]

Memorable Moment:
Hosts mock-lawyer their way through deposition transcripts, play-acting the spat between Ilya, Dario Amodei, and Mira Murati over who should run OpenAI [13:50-14:14].

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6. Elon’s “Flying Car” and Final Banter [11:20-12:23]

• Brief detour into cars: Elon Musk on Joe Rogan’s podcast hints the new Tesla Roadster might “actually be a flying car.”
• Elon promises an “unforgettable” product demo (for better or worse) and references Peter Thiel’s “flying cars” future.
• Hosts riff on the mythos of the always-one-step-ahead founder.

Quote:

“One thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable. Whether it's good or bad.”
– Elon Musk [11:47, 12:00]

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “It's an absolute nightmare.” – Jordi Hays, on post-Halloween Spirit Halloween store [00:30]
• “The big value play is getting this ready for a hyperscaler to go vertical in less than a year.” – John Coogan [00:55]
• “Sell your shares. We're automating science and we're going to release a hardware device and we’re going to need a lot of compute for that. I can't think of a more poor answer when people deserve to have, I think, a bit more clarity around it.” – Jordi Hays [04:06]
• “Elon is probably 10 to 50 times more likable than Sam.” – Jordi Hays [07:54]
• “There's a thin line between grifter and visionary, and creating true believers to harvest their capital requires rhetoric that makes non believers recoil.” – John Coogan [08:48]
• “One of the reasons he would want to IPO is so that he could basically bring... the entire economy with him. He wants the retail army.” – Ilya Sutskever [10:03]
• “I think it's very hard for someone who would be described as a saint to make it.” – John Coogan kidding as Ilya Sutskever [14:14]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• AI Gold Rush – Data Centers: [00:00-01:16]
• Brad Gerstner Interview Recap / Altman’s Response: [01:16-04:41]
• Contracts, Revenue, and Glut Theory: [04:41-06:48]
• OpenAI Leadership, Musk Comparisons, and Rhetoric: [06:48-09:47]
• IPO, Retail Army, Internal Drama Exposé: [09:47-13:50]
• Elon’s Flying Car Tease: [11:20-12:23]
• OpenAI Boardroom Reenactments: [13:50-14:14]

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is lively and irreverent, true to its “Tech Brothers” origins. Coogan and Hays dissect the latest tech news with inside knowledge and healthy skepticism, poking fun at Silicon Valley's love of “visionary” narratives while also acknowledging the weight of the trillion-dollar questions facing OpenAI and its competitors.

For listeners, the episode delivers a fast-paced, funny, and deeply informed look at the current tech meta-drama—balancing both genuine analysis and good-natured roast of the major players.

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Transcript

[Host]

The timeline has been in turmoil over the Brad Gerstner podcast with Satya Nadella and Sam Altman. The AI buildout is so big, even a haunted house owner wants in. The co owner of Pennsylvania's Pennhurst Asylum has big plans for a data center.

[Co-host]

He's like, northwest, we gotta get through Halloween. And then I'm all in on AI Halloween. We gotta get through spooky season.

[Host]

I mean, that's basically what's going all in.

[Co-host]

You ever been to a spirit Halloween, like, at like 6pm On Halloween? No.

[Host]

Is it packed?

[Co-host]

It's an absolute nightmare.

[Host]

Oh, it's probably crazy because they just.

[Co-host]

Let it get destroyed, basically. Like, the employees are just like, all right, it's basically over.

[Host]

It's over.

[Co-host]

We're just gonna pack up and leave tomorrow. Looks like a stampede of horses just through it.

[Host]

Apparently haunted houses are converting into data centers. There are a number of Hollywood sound stages studios that have been set up in. In Atlanta, I think she said Georgia. And they're not monetizing well as studios, and so they're converting them into data centers. Trump hailed more than 92 billion in AI and energy deals from the likes of Blackstone and Brookfield during a visit to Pennsylvania this year. Many say there's too much money flooding in. The big value play is getting this ready for a hyperscaler to go vertical in less than a year.

[Co-host]

I've seen enough. He should back based on his Halloween revenue for sure, and then use that capital to. To go all in.

[Host]

The timeline's going pretty crazy on the Bee Gees Squared. He had Satya, Nadella, and Sam Altman on the show. And everyone is debating whether or not a $14 billion revenue company, OpenAI, can afford to pay 1.4 trillion. And Brad asked this question directly. It's kind of a crazy moment because a lot of people were saying, like, well, he's an investor. This should be like, the softest ball interview possible. A lot of journalists were like, how is this happening? How is it that Sam Altman's like, getting. It's like a harder interview with a direct investor than with a traditional media journalist.

[Co-host]

I don't think Brad meant meant for it to be a tough question. The whole interview was a layup. Like, Brad is, like you said, he's heavily aligned with OpenAI. This wasn't meant to be a gotcha. Sam just might have woken up in a bad mood that day because the answer that he gave was absolutely horrible.

[Sam Altman]

I think there's a lot of people who would love to buy OpenAI. Shares. I don't, I don't think you would.

[Co-host]

Including myself.

[Sam Altman]

Including myself, who talk with a lot of like breathless concern about our compute stuff or whatever that would be thrilled to buy shares. So I think we, we could sell, you know, your shares or anybody else's to some of the people who are making the most noise on Twitter, whatever about this very quickly. We do plan for revenue to grow steeply.

[Host]

Yeah, the step back is growing steeply.

[Sam Altman]

We are taking a forward.

[Co-host]

So pause. Pause for a second.

[Host]

I was just listening to the audio and I was like, oh, like that's like a totally reasonable answer. But, but when you watch the video and you see the body language and you get into all that, I feel.

[Co-host]

Like it's a whole extra. Sam got pressed.

[Host]

He went, see, you don't hear that on the audio. You don't hear that on the audio. And so you see what I'm saying, how like you can win in one medium but lose in another.

[Co-host]

Anytime I don't like something you're saying.

[Host]

John, I'm just gonna go, well, the audio listeners won't know. Yeah, won't know. And the timeline was also fixating on this fact that at some point Brad takes a step back from the microphone. They were reading into that. Like, that's something that just doesn't come across in audio. And so you hear it and you're just like, okay, yeah, this actually sounds like pretty reasonable.

[Co-host]

And Satya. Satya is just sitting back laughing.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Co-host]

It was like. It was the, one of the most strange. I was actually surprised that they released it. I think it's good that it was released because this is the question that is on everyone's mind.

[Host]

Yes.

[Co-host]

He says, how will you afford 1.4 trillion in spending with only 12 billion of revenue? And Sam was like, actually we have more revenue than that. Of course, they lost 10 or so billion dollars last quarter. Sam's answer was basically, sell your shares. We're automating science and we're going to release a hardware device and we're going to need a lot of compute for that. I can't think of a more poor answer when people deserve to have, I think, a bit more clarity around it. Sam is smart enough to not sign up for $1.4 trillion of like, liabilities. Yeah, there is a world where he can thread the needle and spend all this money that he's sort of soft committing. But everything has to go perfectly. Agenda commerce has to, has to be massive. Ads need to be massive. Subscriptions need to keep growing at the same rate. And so a lot of things need to go right. And it was just a really weak answer. The only person that I saw defending the answer and the whole interaction was brat.

[Host]

Okay, so Sam said that the revenue was incorrect. It's not 14 billion, it's higher.

[Co-host]

It's worth noting that the losses are dramatically greater than the revenue.

[Host]

Yeah. But that doesn't matter for the, for the deals because you pay the, you pay the deals from the revenue.

[Co-host]

So many different businesses.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host]

Where their market caps are riding on their partnership with you. Yeah. And you're just saying like, yeah, we're going to just hit a grand slam with a new consumer hardware device. And every other attempt at it so far has not managed to make anything even really that useful.

[Host]

If OpenAI doesn't accelerate to a trillion dollars in revenue or quadrillion dollars in revenue. And all of a sudden there's a whole bunch of folks who are like, wait a minute, how are you going to pay us for our cloud stuff? And they're able to say, okay, well let's actually wind this back or let's stretch this contract out, this five year contract. Let's make it a 10 year contract. That can happen smoothly and efficiently with just the stroke of a pen. Like it's not that big of a deal.

[Co-host]

It can, except if you're Oracle and you spend tens of billions of dollars building infrastructure that you ultimately can't monetize in the way that you thought you were going to monetize. And if you have reason and they have massive debt. And so the reason I'm wearing the tinfoil hat is I would like to propose the glut theory, which is that I believe there's a chance that Sam actually wants to create a massive overbuild. So he can, he can. Ultimately, he predicted a glut because he controls the demand on the show. Yeah, he's glut pilled.

[Host]

It doesn't seem like they have a lot of debt. It doesn't seem like. We don't know. That's the thing, is that we don't know how these contracts are written. There could be an easy mutual out. It could just be like these contracts can be revocable for convenience. If you don't pay your AWS bill, OpenAI, there's 37 billion. If you don't pay it, we own the company. You go into receivership, you go bankrupt. They're wildly different contracts. And we don't know.

[Co-host]

OpenAI, I believe will be a massive beneficiary of a glut and an overbuilt. Sam is entirely right. He's actually smart to say, focus on, let's focus on demand for the stock. Right. If you want to get out, I'll help you get out.

[Host]

Are you going to nuke my portfolio? And I'm going to be fine on your deal, but the rest of my portfolio is getting caught.

[Co-host]

You could have done a few of these press releases and there wouldn't have been as many questions. OpenAI's revenue ramp is insane. They have the biggest consumer product in the last 10 years. When you announce $100 billion deal, a $200 billion deal, another hundred billion dollar, a $50 billion deal, and then less than 72 hours after this interview releases, there's another $38 billion deal announced. Now is a, is an appropriate time, I think, for people to just press them harder on this. The joke of like, OpenAI is holding up the stock market is incredibly real right now.

[Host]

I mean, I don't know what more people want, though. Like, we've been growing 3.3x every year we project that we're going to continue to grow 3x. The quadrillion number is a joke, but clearly they back out the envelope to being a hyperscaler.

[Co-host]

So say that. Don't say, we're automating science. Sell your shares. Elon does very similar things, right?

[Host]

Yeah, totally. We're going to go to Mars and we're going to have a flying car.

[Co-host]

And we're going to do day trucking space. Elon is probably 10 to 50 times more likable than Sam. In general, Elon is more likable. And so people give him the benefit of the doubt. Longer track record of delivering on. You know, there's a thing of like, Elon, you know, gets the timing wrong, but he delivered.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just going to be. Yeah.

[Co-host]

I just think, I just think that we're, we're going to cure cancer. Answer, we're automating science. Answer isn't good enough anymore at this scale, when there's this many trillions of dollars on the line, hey, man, how are you going to pay for the 1.4 trillion of spend you've promised proceeds to crash out?

[Host]

People are reading too much into Sam being feisty. Love that about him. And in our founders, we laughed about it afterwards.

[Co-host]

Again, the question is for people that are not invested in OpenAI, but invested in all the companies that they're partnered with.

[Host]

Sure. Got to give it to Altman. Very forward thinker, itching to go public for the sole purpose of crushing the hypothetical short sellers that don't exist yet. Can't wait for the S1. I love that. So Sam breaks people's brains, just like Elon. There's a th line between grifter and visionary, and creating true believers to harvest their capital requires rhetoric that makes non believers recoil. Elon hates Sam not just because he stole his company, but he stole his whole playbook. Is Elon Barnum and Bailey the circusman, or is he Thomas Edison or Nikola Tesla? Well, he's both. Not only can he lead engineers to invent the thing and build the thing, but then he can also promote it. And he can promote it really, really well. He's both the grifter and the visionary. He's both the real deal and the fake guru. And when you put those together, it's really, really powerful. Sam seems to be doing something similar. In the build out of Tesla, in the build out of of SpaceX, there was never a moment where it was like, if. If Elon goes bust, everything is dead.

[Co-host]

Speaking generally timeline assessment, Elon is more likable than Sam. He has also made tens of thousands of retail investors so much money for believing in him. And so Sam doesn't have the benefit of having, like, there's no retail army defending Sam.

[Ilya Sutskever]

He says, like, one of the reasons he would want to IPO is so that he could basically bring, you know, not just venture capitalists, but the entire economy with him. You know, so he wants the retail army.

[Host]

Elon says, you stole a nonprofit. Sam Altman says, I helped turn the thing you left for dead into what should be the largest nonprofit ever.

[Co-host]

911, I'd like to report a murder, and it's basically giving shit to Tesla for not being able to do a refund. And so the follow up to you stole a nonprofit, and you forgot to mention Act 4, where this issue was fixed and you received a refund within 24 hours. But that is in your nature. So again, Elon refunded him.

[Host]

Refund confirmed.

[Co-host]

Hard cause this is the most dentist coded car I've ever seen in my life. A white turbo S. Pulling the top.

[Host]

Down while you're driving, though, that's pretty sick.

[Co-host]

So, I mean, I really dislike the. I really dislike cabriolets in general.

[Host]

If this is the car that getting a dentist gets you, I.

[Co-host]

No shade to dentists, but this is a great car. If you were. If you're buying a sports car to drive to work at your dentist's office, this is a great option. Probably the greatest Car in history that's rough all around, but it's not what customers want and it's unfortunate.

[Host]

Speaking of cars, Elon Musk teased on the Joe Rogan experience that the Tesla Roadster will be a flying car. He danced around it. He didn't say that he was flying. Are you still doing the Roadster? Let's go.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Host]

Let's do it. Eventually. Eventually.

[Elon Musk]

We're getting close to demonstrating the prototype.

[Co-host]

I think this will be.

[Host]

Look at that.

[Elon Musk]

One thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable.

[Host]

I love it.

[Elon Musk]

Unforgettable.

[Host]

How so?

[Elon Musk]

Whether it's good or bad.

[Host]

Whether it's good or bad will be unforgettable.

[Elon Musk]

Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel once reflected that the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars.

[Host]

Amazing. So you're gonna be able to fly?

[Co-host]

Well, I mean, Joe's face.

[Elon Musk]

I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should be able to buy one.

[Co-host]

Okay, pause it right there. What if it just actually is a flying car?

[Host]

It could be large solar powered AI satellite Constellation would be able to fix him, would be able to prevent global warming by making tiny adjustments in how much solar energy reached the Earth. How much capex does that cost?

[Co-host]

One thing that notable and he was talking about the shareholder vote around his compensation, but also the voting power that he'll have. And one of the things that he said was I don't want to create a robot army. If I can be fired by iss.

[Host]

These voting groups, who should control the robot army? Good question. Let me tell you about public.com investing for those that take it seriously. Multi asset investing industry leading yields trusted by millions. They have shared new details on the internal conflicts that led to Sam Altman's initial firing, including a memo alleging that Altman exhibited a consistent pattern of lying. There's a, there's a deposition transcript that is going around that is now public from the Ilia deposition. Toucan kind of summarizes here. Ilia plotted for over a year with Mira to remove Sam. Dario wanted Greg Brockman fired and himself in charge of all research. That's Dario Amade, I believe from Anthropic. Mira Muradi told Ilya that Sam Altman pitted her against Daniela Amadei. Ilya wrote a 52 page memo to get Sam fired. And a separate doc on Greg Tyler.

[Co-host]

Is going to be playing the attorney Agna Lucci and I will be attorney.

[Host]

Molo and I'm Ilya.

[Co-host]

It certainly does matter how much what do you think the value of Your equity at OpenAI was at the time Sam Altman was fired?

[Ilya Sutskever]

And I'm instructing the witness not to answer as to the money value.

[Co-host]

Are you going to not answer?

[Host]

I have to obey my attorney.

[Co-host]

Okay, so you're not going to answer?

[Host]

I'll do what my attorney tells me to. I think it's very hard for someone who would be described as a saint to make it. We're on the road tomorrow, but we're still doing a show. 11am Pacific. We'll see you there. I don't think we can't wait to be doing any guests. We'll see. It might be a little bit of a shorter show, but don't worry. We have a bunch of plans.

[Co-host]

A lot of timeline.

[Host]

We'll see you tomorrow.

[Co-host]

See you tomorrow.

[Host]

Goodbye.

[Co-host]

Love you.