Diet TBPN: October 22nd, 2025

Summary

TBPN Podcast Summary

Podcast: TBPN
Hosts: Ben Thompson & James Allworth
Episode: Diet TBPN: October 22, 2025
Date of Recording: October 22, 2025
Release Date: October 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Apple TV’s new exclusive U.S. broadcast deal for Formula 1 (F1), explores the broader implications for live sports in streaming, discusses Meta’s major AI layoffs and strategy, highlights the growing influence of Anthropic in the AI race, and touches on the security woes of the Louvre and developments in space computing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Apple TV's F1 Deal: Strategy and Implications

• Apple TV+ secures exclusive F1 U.S. streaming rights

  • Five-year deal, annual fee: $140–$160 million.

  • ESPN out, Apple TV+ in.

  • F1: ~30M viewers across season, 1.3M average per race, up to 3M for top U.S. races.

  • High-value, tech-savvy, affluent audience aligns well with Apple’s brand.

    "It's a very high value audience. It's a very Apple audience, in my opinion.”
    — Ben Thompson [00:56]

• Cultural angle:

  • F1’s U.S. growth propelled by the “Drive to Survive” Netflix series, leading to “fake fans” — newcomers drawn in by dramatic storytelling.

  "Apple's audience of people that become fans of a sport because they watch reality television about it, basically fake fans."
  — James Allworth [01:12]

• Technical Experience & User Journey:

  • Apple TV+ users get F1 streams integrated, can choose camera angles (including in-car cams).
  • Potential funnel from other Apple content (e.g., upcoming F1 movie) to live races.

  "You will get full access to F1 streams...not just the race cams...but you can watch the individual drivers. I think both the front and the back camera, which is kind of cool.”
  — Ben Thompson [01:25]

• Will Apple TV grow F1’s U.S. audience?

  • Mixed feelings:
    • Streaming (Apple TV+): viewed as more intentional than incidental TV (i.e., people don't just 'have it on’ like ESPN).
    • Audience might shrink due to less casual exposure, but strengthens engagement among core fans.

  "I still think of Apple TV as the thing that people are doing intentional watching on versus just running it. … I think it could potentially shrink the audience in the US.” — James Allworth [02:08]

• Adjacent Content & the ‘Funnel’:

  • Netflix’s “Drive to Survive” effect couldn't be replicated by Apple, which lacks reality/documentary IP.
  • Apple’s F1 movie integration possible, but unlikely to generate the same volume.

  “Apple can do something similar with the F1 movie...but way, way, way less watch.”
  — Ben Thompson & James Allworth [03:14–03:22]

• Apple Vision Pro & F1: (Underwhelming)

  • High hopes for immersive, spatial F1 viewing.
  • Launch announcement: only traditional 2D viewing, no 3D or real spatial video.
  • Hardware exists (“$10,000 camera”), but no current plans for advanced experiences.

  “All they're saying on Vision Pro is that you'll be able to watch it in Vision Pro, which is like, yeah, of course... So yeah, they're not doing any 3D content…which is, it’s not look, it’s not turn your head all the way around and look behind you. But it’s basically a bubble.”
  — Ben Thompson [03:56]

  “I would set up film.”
  — Ben Thompson [04:44]

  • Steer-man (optimistic) case: Apple isn’t ready to announce, but immersive content is in works.

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2. Meta AI Layoffs & WhatsApp ChatGPT Ban

• Meta’s Layoffs:

  • 600 jobs cut from “superintelligence” AI division (umbrella 3,000-person org).
  • Layoffs unlikely to increase unemployment as AI talent is in high demand.

  "If you're not meeting the bar at Meta, it's very possible that you would be elite at like thousands of other companies that want to have an AI strategy.”
  — James Allworth [06:36]

• Meta blocks non-Meta chatbots (e.g., ChatGPT) from WhatsApp in 2026.

  • 3 billion WhatsApp users, ~50 million ChatGPT-on-WhatsApp users affected.

  “3 billion users will no longer be able to use ChatGPT in the messaging app. Apparently there was like around 50 million people that were primarily using ChatGPT through WhatsApp.”
  — James Allworth [07:13]

  “Whoa, that's WhatsApp power user.” — Ben Thompson [07:29]

  • Atlas RT encourages users to migrate.

• Platform power dynamics:

  • The “hyperscalers” (big tech cloud/AI providers) are aggressively protecting their cores and limiting cross-service integration.

  “All of the hyperscalers hate each other."
  — Ben Thompson [07:47]

  • Satirical banter: urge to move from “super intelligence” to “hyper intelligence” or even “giga intelligence”.

  “My for you is to start working on hyper intelligence.”
  — Ben Thompson [07:49]
  "Giga intelligence. That might be a 2030 goal."
  — James Allworth [08:03]

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3. Anthropic, Google, and the Future of AI Compute

• Anthropic in talks with Google for tens of billions in cloud/compute deals.

  • Google owns 14% of Anthropic.
  • Strategic implications for AWS: missing out could damage their AI infrastructure market position.
  • If running Apple, they’d acquire Anthropic outright.

  "Anthropic scaling revenue. They're doing B2B token generation and they need more compute. And so they went to the biggest compute provider, very Drake Coded."
  — James Allworth [08:41]

• Media coverage disparity:

  • Anthropic rapidly growing (approaching 75% of OpenAI’s revenue), but gets less press.
  • Mainstream press prefers buzz around consumer-facing AI (like ChatGPT) for more relatable headlines.

  “Anthropic gets wildly disproportionately less MSM coverage than OpenAI despite approaching 3/4 of its revenue size because its quiet blowout success severely hurts the broader AI bear case.” — Ben Thompson [08:54]

• Product differences:

  • OpenAI “ships a browser”, Anthropic “ships a blog post.”
  • Measurement of product usage and tracking: more straightforward for OpenAI than Anthropic’s more API-driven model.

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4. Other Topics & Banter

• Louvre security shortcomings (satirical tone):

  • Discussions on recurring Louvre art heists and management’s possible misjudgments.

  “Louvre heists are always a false flag by the art world. To increase notoriety of certain works, do not fall for the Frankish tricks.” — James Allworth [10:01]

• Space Data Centers:

  • Nvidia pushes HPC-powered (H100) satellites—“Space isn’t just for stars anymore.”
  • Are “space data centers” really a compelling proposition yet?
  • Humorous, rapid closing to the show.

  “Have we got a compelling pitch for space data centers yet?” — Ben Thompson [10:46]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Apple TV audience:

  "I still think of Apple TV as the thing that people are doing intentional watching on versus just running it."
  — James Allworth [02:08]

• On Vision Pro’s lack of innovation:

  "Since the initial demo of the Apple Vision Pro, critics and analysts Ben Thompson and more have been saying live sports are going to be amazing in Apple Vision Pro because you can just drop a camera there and you don't need to do anything else..."
  — Ben Thompson [05:33]

• Meta layoff context:

  "This seems healthy and normal. I think these 600 people are going to have a bunch of job offers really quickly in my view."
  — James Allworth [06:31]

• On the hyperscalers' AI war:

  "All of the hyperscalers hate each other." — Ben Thompson [07:47]

• Anthropic’s media strategy:

  "OpenAI ships a browser. Anthropic ships a blog post. DeepMind solves Navier Stoke. Meta Eff it. Let's do a layoff."
  — Ben Thompson [09:42]

• Louvre heists joke:

  "Louvre heists are always a false flag by the art world. To increase notoriety of certain works, do not fall for the Frankish tricks..."
  — James Allworth [10:01]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Apple TV+ F1 Deal & Strategy — [00:00] to [04:56]
• Apple Vision Pro / Live Sports Integration — [03:16] to [05:52]
• Meta AI Layoffs & WhatsApp ChatGPT Ban — [06:12] to [07:49]
• Anthropic’s AI Compute, Media Coverage & B2B Focus — [08:07] to [09:42]
• Art World Banter & Space Data Centers — [10:01] to [10:56]

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Conclusion

This episode provided a rapid-fire but insightful analysis of the latest collisions between sports media, big tech’s battles over live content, the realpolitik of the AI arms race (Meta, OpenAI, Google, Anthropic), and, as always, some tongue-in-cheek commentary on the week’s quirky news. Perfect for listeners wanting clear, opinionated takes on big tech’s latest chess moves.

Transcript

[Ben Thompson]

You're watching TVPN. Today is Wednesday, October 22, 2025. We are live from the TVPN Ultradome. The temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the Capital of Capital. F1 has officially partnered with Apple TV. You probably heard this, but I wanted to go a layer deeper into the strategy that Apple is employing here. So it's a five year partnership, just the United States. ESPN is out, Apple is in the reporting places the annual fee at 140 to 160 million dollars per year now.

[James Allworth]

Which is not bad because not long ago they wanted 200 and ESPN laughed them out of the way.

[Ben Thompson]

Balked. They balked.

[James Allworth]

Balking is underrated.

[Ben Thompson]

It is.

[James Allworth]

You gotta be Bach max.

[Ben Thompson]

And so F1 across the whole season, all the races combined, they pull 30 million viewers. They get about 1.1 million viewers per race last year. I think it's up to 1.3 million this year. And then some of the bigger races in the US by Amy Grand Prix, that gets up to like 3 million for like this whole spectacle. But in general it's a relatively small media property. But it's a really high value audience. It's a very high. It's a very Apple audience, in my opinion.

[James Allworth]

Apple's audience of people that become fans of a sport because they watch reality television about it, basically fake fans.

[Ben Thompson]

Now you will actually be able to buy Apple TV and unsubscribe from the F1 app because you will get F1 for free. And if you open up the F1 app on your Apple TV, instead of opening the Apple TV app, you open the F1 app, you'll be able to log in with Apple TV the service, and you will get full access to the F1 streams, which means not just the race cams and the actual production, but you can watch the individual racers, the individual drivers. I think both the front and the back camera, which is kind of cool. You can watch either. It is a sport built for monitoring the situation, much like ramp is built for saving you time and money, easy use, corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place. Do you think this is something that grows F1?

[James Allworth]

No. I still think of Apple TV as the thing that people are doing, intentional watching on versus just running it. Right. So the reason that ESPN potentially grew F1's audience was because people just wake up on the weekend, they turn on espn.

[Ben Thompson]

Yeah.

[James Allworth]

And it's just on the tv.

[Ben Thompson]

Oh, what's on before football or what's on before baseball.

[James Allworth]

So I think it could potentially shrink the audience in the US but it's very clear that live sports are an area that traditional TV and streaming will continue to have an edge. Because streaming rights exist, it's effectively a monopoly that gets granted to a platform.

[Ben Thompson]

Yeah, it seems really powerful. Is there a real lift from having adjacent sports related content that can funnel new viewers into live sport viewing? Apple doesn't have Drive to Survive. So there is a world where Netflix bought the F1 rights. And as soon as you finish the Drive to Survive season, because everyone's watching Drive to Survive all the time. So they, they could just say, hey, click this button and we'll send you a push notification in your Netflix app. When the real race goes live. Apple can do something similar with the F1 movie. If you watch the movie, it could just say, hey, you know, want to watch the real race?

[James Allworth]

Yeah, but way, way, way less watch.

[Ben Thompson]

Way less watch, way less watch time.

[James Allworth]

The other thing about F1 is just how dangerous it is is also an element. A driver makes a mistake, they could actually die.

[Ben Thompson]

Like the business side is what's so fascinating to me because you're not just talking about the athlete, you're talking about the car. So if you're an engineering nerd into the car. But then also if you're a business nerd, you can understand, okay, this team principal is getting fired. They're like the CEO of the organization who's putting the money in. And then what does that, what, what effect does that money have if the content stack works and you're funneling people from the F1 movie to a drive to survive to actually watching the race? Apple has been for the last few years talking about what comes after the screen. And they've been saying it's the Apple Vision Pro. It's immersive video, it's 3D, it's spatial, it's augmented reality. And I was really, really disappointed in the Apple announcement post. Which is beautiful, has some great graphics, bunch of details, but basically all they're saying on Vision Pro is that you'll be able to watch it in Vision Pro, which is like, yeah, of course I could watch ESPN in Vision Pro. I could watch any TV show in Vision Pro. So yeah, they're not doing any 3D content and they're not doing any spatial content, which is, it's not look, it's not turn your head all the way around and look behind you. But it's basically a bubble. It's like 180 degrees. And so with that, it's not that expensive. Everyone's so Expensive. It's like there's a $10,000 camera from Blackmagic. I would set up film.

[James Allworth]

How would Apple not negotiate the ability to.

[Ben Thompson]

I think that they, I think they. The steel man, like the bull case, is that like they're going to do something, they just aren't ready to announce it.

[James Allworth]

Yeah, that's potentially, you know, out of the million or so people that tune into each race, there's a set of fans that are hardcore that would just buy and use the Vision Pro because.

[Ben Thompson]

It would be even just as a novelty a few times. Black Box Infinite had a demo of what watching an F1 race in Apple Vision Pro would look like. But of course, like Black Box Infinite is like a dev shop and they don't have the rights and so this like probably has to be negotiated with Apple and Apple's just not really doing it.

[James Allworth]

Vegas just unveiled the a massive F1 venue called Bar and Grill. It's the top golfer, F1, most generic name in history.

[Ben Thompson]

Extremely, extremely. Since the initial demo of the Apple Vision Pro, critics and analysts Ben Thompson and more have been saying live sports are going to be amazing in Apple Vision Pro because you can just drop a camera there and you don't need to do anything else because he had this demo of putting the camera at the half court line courtside at an NBA game and he was like, it doesn't require any production because if you want to see them go over there, you just turn your head and if you want to know the score, you just look up at the scoreboard because it's the experience of being courtside, which is already the best experience possible.

[James Allworth]

Metta cuts 600 jobs at AI superintelligence labs. The layoffs do not affect Meta's newest AI hires who are in some case, who are in some cases being paid up to hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Ben Thompson]

They're in what's called TB Lab.

[James Allworth]

Meta said on Wednesday that it cut approximately 600 jobs in its AI division, according to a memo sent to employees that was relayed to the Times. As a company seeks to keep pace with competitors in the furious contest over the technology. The layoffs were in Meta's so called, super so called, so called, so Shots Fired, which is the umbrella name for the company's AI efforts. The division has around 3,000 employees. This seems healthy and normal. I think these 600 people are going to have a bunch of job offers really quickly in my view. Like if you're not meeting the bar at Meta, it's very possible that you would be elite at like thousands of other companies that want to have an AI strategy. So I think these people will be back in the workforce quickly. In a sign of the escalating competition in AI, Meta on Saturday also said it would cut off access to non meta chatbots like ChatGPT on WhatsApp beginning next year. Oh yeah, that means. I didn't even know, you know, 3 billion users will no longer be able to use ChatGPT in the messaging app. Apparently there was like around 50 million people that were primarily using ChatGPT through WhatsApp.

[Ben Thompson]

Whoa, that's WhatsApp power user.

[James Allworth]

Makes sense. You can just chat with somebody.

[Ben Thompson]

Kevin says it had many, many millions of happy users. If you're one of them, you can migrate to our app, website or browser. Let's hear it for Atlas RT. If you agree that WhatsApp is better with ChatGPT, let's go. All of the hyperscalers hate each other. I think super, super intelligence is over if you're at Meta. My for you is to start working on hyper intelligence because the super intelligence thing is just obviously, it's obviously last year's news. Do you agree?

[James Allworth]

Giga intelligence.

[Ben Thompson]

Giga intelligence. That might be a 2030 goal.

[James Allworth]

Anthropic is currently in compute discussions with Google in a deal valued in the high tens of billions.

[Ben Thompson]

That's a lot.

[James Allworth]

That's a lot of billions if Anthropic prioritizes Google infra over aws. It's very telling on AWS AI infra and AWS AI strategy is cooked without Anthropic. Ultimately, I don't think it should be a huge surprise that Anthropic is interested in working with Google. Google owns roughly 4, 14% of anthropic. If they were in charge of Apple today, the first thing that they would do is buy Anthropic. Yeah, it's a very kind of weird take in my view.

[Ben Thompson]

Anthropic scaling revenue. They're doing B2B token generation and they need more compute. And so they went to the biggest.

[James Allworth]

Compute provider, very Drake Coded. Yes, I had someone tell me that I fell off. Ooh, I needed that.

[Ben Thompson]

Anthropic gets wildly disproportionately less MSM coverage than OpenAI despite approaching 3/4 of its revenue size because its quiet blowout success severely hurts the broader AI bear case. You'd think the fastest growing scale technology company ever would provide a lot more fodder for the press.

[James Allworth]

OpenAI has 10 times the deals and 10 times the products getting announced.

[Ben Thompson]

That's true if you're in the business of like the mainstream media. Like you need to put the water issue or the electricity issue or the financial issues in terms people can understand. People understand ChatGPT. So you put that in the headline and you get more clicks than if you say a clock.

[James Allworth]

I wonder how Anthropic tries to track weekly actives because they have a lot of their users are using the product through other front ends.

[Ben Thompson]

OpenAI ships a browser. Anthropic ships a blog post. DeepMind solves Navier Stoke Meta Eff it. Let's do a layoff. Let me tell you about Google AI Studio. The fastest way from prompt to production with Gemini. You can chat with models, you can vibe code, you can monitor usage.

[James Allworth]

Louvre heists are always a false flag by the art world. To increase notoriety of certain works, do not fall for the Frankish tricks the.

[Ben Thompson]

Louvre has been heisted from multiple times. They really got to step their game up.

[James Allworth]

Yeah. Do you think the management team over there is thinking we shouldn't have. We shouldn't have been so scrappy on security considering we have billions of dollars.

[Ben Thompson]

I think if I was in charge of loop security, I wouldn't have thought about the furniture elevator Vector of attack.

[James Allworth]

See this dashboard? It gives executives actionable insights into critical business functions. Classic true story, I'm sure. Nvidia says space isn't just for stars anymore. Star Cloud's H100 powered satellite brings sustainable high performance computing beyond Earth. Have we got a compelling pitch for space data centers yet? Have a wonderful evening.

[Ben Thompson]

Leave us five stars on Apple Podcast and spot cheer.