TBPN Podcast Summary

Episode: You Don't Need a Storyteller, ChatGPT Images, Ali on the Series L
Hosts: John Coogan & Jordi Hays
Date: December 16, 2025
Notable Guests: Karri Saarinen (Linear), Mike Cessario (Liquid Death), Elliot Cohen (General Medicine), Ali Ghodsi (Databricks), Tyler

Overview

Today's episode dives into the latest tech and business headlines, engaging deep debates on storytelling roles at startups, generative AI image models, breakthrough ad campaigns, the economics of open-source software, the health of AI and CPG sectors, and candid founder stories. The show features a rapid-fire panel with guests from Linear, Liquid Death, General Medicine, and Databricks. Approaching the holidays, the hosts keep things festive in Santa suits, touching on everything from effective marketing to the state of AI, the shifting venture landscape, and company milestones like Databricks’ Series L.

Key Discussion Points & Highlights

1. Do You Really Need a Storyteller?

Timestamps: 00:43–24:57

• Storyteller Role Trend:
  The Wall Street Journal reports a spike in companies hiring “storytellers” — blending PR, comms, content, product launches, and narrative creation, increasingly with formal titles.

  “Storytelling is the only way to impose meaning on abundance, coherence on noise, legitimacy on power. ... This skill is worth more than the entire C suite company combined.” – John, quoting Signal [01:13]

• Debate:
  Is storytelling just a new label for copywriters or creative directors?

  • John posits: Once a trend hits the WSJ, the alpha is gone; maybe you really need a "yarn spinner" or "fabulist." [04:21]
  • Important touchpoint: Elite storytellers are typically the founders themselves—think “Joe Rogan CEO” types (e.g. Elon Musk, Palmer Luckey).
  • Great storytelling isn't about constant output, but about high-impact, memorable moments/campaigns ("one great campaign is worth 10,000 posts").

• Classic Campaigns Cited:

  • “Don’t Work at Anduril” (Palmer Luckey cameo)
  • “Thank You for Your Interest in Astronomer” (Gwyneth Paltrow)
  • Ramp’s Super Bowl ad with Saquon Barkley
  • “Keep Thinking” (Anthropic, Apple-style ad)
  • “Buy Every Billboard” (Avi Schiffman’s Friend)

• Key Quote:

  “If you lack a Joe Rogan CEO, remember that one great campaign can be worth 10,000 posts.” – Jordy [15:24]

2. On the Nature of Effective Storytelling

Timestamps: 19:58–24:57, 107:21–109:14

• Impactful stories require conflict, honesty, and the willingness to show “downturns and upswings.”

• Great stories in business, as in life, often follow the hero’s journey (conflict, antagonists, mentors, resolution).

  “It should give marketers permission to actually inject conflict into their marketing materials.” – John [21:13]

• Talent for Storytelling:
  The Venn diagram of people who “get tech, get people, and can explain complex things simply,” is “tiny.” Most true storytelling talent resides in great ad agencies, not in-house.

3. ChatGPT Image Model 1.5 – Benchmarks and Fun

Timestamps: 34:29–44:47

• OpenAI launches new image generation model (1.5):

  • Four times faster, with new features and editing capabilities.

  • Still fails the “Where’s Waldo?” test of visual storytelling—the AI lacks the ability to create nested, meaningful vignettes like the original artist Martin Handford did.

    “What makes Where’s Waldo special is there are stories… scenes playing out. That’s what makes it enjoyable… the creators are storytellers.” – John [36:51]

• Prompting and UX:

  • Noted how much “inspiration” for prompts comes from the community, not a blank box — strong UI and communal inspiration still matter for AI creativity.
  • OpenAI adding more preset styles/ideas to lower the barrier for users.

4. AI Bubble, AI Impact & Business Models

Timestamps: 46:34–79:52

• CoreWeave’s Valuation Dip:

  • Plunged 46% after a short seller’s criticism, an aborted deal, and delays.
  • Discussion highlights the capital intensity and volatility of AI infra companies; still, sales doubled YoY.
  • The market is cooling on excessive valuations; AI “bubble” accusations persist but with few outright frauds visible.

• RadNet “AI Bubble” Report:

  • Alleged to have “AI-inflated” share value and commoditized AI offering.
  • Hosts note: AI-related skepticism is high, but few clear frauds have emerged—fraud allegations are rare.

• Advertising Insights:

  • Holiday TV ad spend at record highs.
  • Amazon and Walmart are massive TV advertisers.

5. Guest Conversation: Karri Saarinen (Linear)

Timestamps: 91:27–111:29

• On Design as Search:

  • Argues that design is not just about tools or “design in code.”

    “What I worry about is that if we start thinking design is about coding, then we lose that space to think more broadly… and we jump into ‘let’s build this solution.’” – Karri [94:26]

  • Importance of a phase for pure conceptual design, where constraints don’t prematurely limit ideas.
  • AI can help, but short-cuts can lead to average outcomes; true innovation requires time spent on the hard conceptual problems.

• Storytelling & Brand:

  • Valuable only if the founder or company has a real worldview; storytelling is the externalization of that belief.
  • Holiday product gimmicks: fun if brand-appropriate, but high-stakes products (like Linear) mostly avoid them.

6. Guest Conversation: Mike Cessario (Liquid Death)

Timestamps: 121:08–141:23

• On Creating a Viral CPG Brand:

  • Liquid Death's cheeky "heavy metal" water launch was validated by faking a Facebook brand and running a video ad before product existed.

  • Comedy as a brand lever: most health brands are bland, afraid of humor. LD aimed for “the funniest energy drink brand in a sea of extreme.”

    “How do we make a truly healthy beverage company that markets more like a fun alcohol or junk food company?” – Mike [129:47]

• Scaling Humor & Storytelling:

  • Humor must be audience-appropriate; genuine apology/support in customer service, keep the jokes in marketing.
  • The best “storyteller” is the founder — able to rally customers, investors, and employees around the mission.

7. Guest Conversation: Elliot Cohen (General Medicine)

Timestamps: 141:49–156:45

• Reinventing Healthcare Access with AI:
  • General Medicine offers chat-based, health-history-aware primary care, with seamless progression from exploration (via LLM) to treatment.
  • AI’s impact: helps match symptoms or issues to possible prior events in your health record, guides next actions, and enhances patient understanding.
  • Key metric for AI healthcare: focus should be on consumer Net Promoter Score (NPS), not just cost or throughput—patients want an enjoyable, insightful experience.

8. Guest Conversation: Ali Ghodsi (Databricks)

Timestamps: 158:46–186:38

• Databricks Milestones:

  • $4.8B ARR run rate, >55% growth, $1B+ in AI product revenue.
  • AI revenue is distinct from data warehousing and data engineering lines.
  • Companies adopting Databricks for applied, “get stuff done AI,” not just superintelligence quests.

• On Open Source Monetization:

  • Building a business on OSS is hard: need not one but “two home runs”—dominant OSS adoption, then 10x proprietary value to monetize.

  • When hyperscalers clone your open source project: it’s a sign of your project’s impact; the only defense is continued, fast innovation.

    “If you could freeze all startups for 12 months, the Mag 7 would catch up immediately and there would be no startups. Your whole thing is outrun the big guys very, very fast.” – Ali [170:46]

• Perspective on "Talent Wars" and Storytelling:

  • Billion-dollar offers for top AI talent are mostly hype, and markets are normalizing.
  • True leadership requires a blend of storytelling, strategy, recruitment, execution, and strong culture.

Notable Quotes

• On Storytelling:

  “If you have a hot take, you don't actually need to own the platform. You can just do a circuit, a podcast tour.” – John [08:41]
  “Would the person want the title 'storyteller,' or would they be OK with 'copywriter’? ... Do they really want to write?” – Jordy [31:13]

• On AI’s “Where’s Waldo” Problem:

  “The telltale sign of a Where’s Waldo is that there is story … There are little vignettes playing out. That’s what makes it enjoyable.” – John [36:51]

• On AI Business Model Risk:

  “The techniques used to generate AI models work on huge amounts of data… It doesn’t work on the smaller data that enterprises have.” – Ali [164:09]

• On Open Source Risk:

  “If you haven’t hit that first home run [with your OSS project], you just gave away all of your IP and got nothing back for it.” – Ali [166:38]

• On Success as a Startup:

  “Just keep compounding. There’s no one else going after that brand positioning.” – John (on CPG exits like Liquid Death, Liquid IV) [192:23]

Segment Timestamps

• Do You Need a Storyteller? — 00:43–24:57
• On Great Storytelling & Marketing Campaigns — 08:04–24:57
• ChatGPT Image Model 1.5 — 34:29–44:47
• CoreWeave, AI Bubble, RadNet — 46:34–66:30
• Holiday Ads & CPG Brand Exits — 47:10–59:49, 190:24–193:32
• Karri Saarinen (Linear) interview — 91:27–111:29
• Mike Cessario (Liquid Death) interview — 121:08–141:23
• Elliot Cohen (General Medicine) interview — 141:49–156:45
• Ali Ghodsi (Databricks) interview — 158:46–186:38

Tone, Style & Atmosphere

• Conversational, witty, and irreverent with deep dives into business and tech trends.
• Frequent use of in-jokes, pop-culture references, casual banter, and rapid-fire exchanges.
• Appealing mix of practical startup advice, high-level strategy, and hands-on campaign analysis.
• Emphasis on authenticity (both in narrative and in leadership) and a ‘do things differently’ ethos.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a must-listen for founders, marketers, and tech enthusiasts curious about:

• The real value and limitations of hiring “storytellers” versus building an authentic, founder-led narrative
• The impact of generative AI on creativity, business workflows, and data handling
• Strategies for OSS startups navigating hyperscaler rivalry
• Differentiation and brand-building in crowded markets (CPG, SaaS, healthcare, AI platforms)
• Insightful, candid founder stories and milestone celebrations in tech

Recurring Theme:
Genuine, compelling stories come from those with conviction, and breakthrough campaigns (not constant content) are what makes companies memorable. AI is powerful but still imperfect for true creative storytelling. In all things, velocity and originality matter.

Next Up:
The team teases coverage of the EV wars (Rivian vs Ford), the latest in venture capital compensation, major IPOs, new AI product launches, and more festive tech banter throughout the holiday season.