#4574 That’s A Delicious Yammer

Summary

TBTL #4574 "That’s A Delicious Yammer"

Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: Luke Burbank, Andrew Walsh

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Episode Overview

In this Monday edition of TBTL, Luke and Andrew plunge into their particular blend of daily absurdity and life's small mysteries. They open with a goofy volley of “describe me in one word or less,” then launch into signature flights of banter, including a quirky advertising mystery and their evolving superstitions during the Mariners’ postseason run. The bulk of the episode explores the emotional highs, anxieties, and rituals of following the Mariners through their tense playoff games, dissecting managerial decisions, fanbase politics, interpersonal neuroses, and how all of this weaves into their own lives. Along the way, classic TBTL detours include childhood stories, box-disposal etiquette, the politics of national anthems, and an epic ode to calligraphy.

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Key Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Opening Banter — "Describe Me in One Word or Less" (00:00–01:40)

• Luke and Andrew riff with nonsense responses to the challenge, setting a playful tone for the show.
• Andrew: "Can you describe me in one word or less?"
• Luke: “Chubby.” Andrew: “Thank you. Can you describe me in one word or less? Meow.”

2. Mariners Superstitions & The Lucky Paddington Sweater (01:41–06:45)

• Luke details his "lucky" Paddington Bear sweater—worn for recent Mariners comebacks—which has assumed almost talismanic importance.
• Luke's workspace now includes a Mariners "shrine," with family photos, a Polanco home run ball, and more.
• Quote: "I put this on... and after I put the sweater on, they came back and won the game... now I guess I live in this sweater." —Luke (02:58)

3. Breaking Down a Curious Seahawks Ad (06:45–19:39)

• Andrew introduces the day’s first “mystery”: an unexpectedly placed calligraphy service ad that aired twice—specifically during Seattle Seahawks games.
• The two riff on what services would be "least likely" to advertise during football, before the reveal: it's a local calligraphy business, offering event calligraphy and even calligraphy event stations.
• Memorable moment: Andrew celebrates the audacity of their ad buy: “After hearing a bunch of men bang their heads into each other and go into blue tents... then they’re just like, ‘you need calligraphy at your next event.’ And I love this so much. Isn’t it great?” (19:14)

4. A Calligraphy & Family Business Detour (19:39–24:30)

• Luke shares how calligraphy has touched his own life: his father's foray into the sign business, and how former colleagues left for the "lucrative world" of calligraphy, focusing on Bible verses at farmers markets.
• The passing mention of pressed flowers and signage brings out nostalgia and musings on “naming some guys” in baseball and in life.

5. Box Etiquette, Family Dynamics & Liminal Guilt (24:30–32:00)

• Luke recounts giving his dad an expensive, slightly defective fire pit, only to be left with the soaking wet box to dispose of—triggering a small, comical spiral about adult family dynamics and transactional guilt.
• Andrew empathizes with the obsessive-compulsive box-cutting impulse, and together they muse on how family and work blend awkwardly when you're "your parent's employer.”
• Quote: “I think what’s underpinning all this was a slight feeling of, Oh, wow… was that the way, should I have given it to them? Should I have tried to resell it? Should I have held onto it for an extra six months? …it complicates your relationship when you have hired one of your parents.” —Luke (31:03)

6. Mariners Playoff Mania: Emotional Toll and Rituals (32:00–72:06)

a. The Joy and Terror of Following the Playoffs (32:34–61:00)

• Andrew details his journey from resigned pessimism to hope on Friday’s elimination game, including leaving the bar mid-game to finish listening alone—screaming and clapping in the street after their win.
• Luke describes watching alone, oscillating between dissociation, pacing, and outbursts so intense he fears his neighbors can hear.
• Both hosts explore how superfandom turns them into neurotic, illogical creatures, but also delivers singular, cathartic joy.

b. Managing Emotions and Rituals in Social vs. Solo Watching (61:01–74:00)

• Andrew laments feeling "too intense" in groups; Luke admits that solo-watching brings out his own weirdest behaviors.
• Both strategize future viewing—balancing bar socializing, routines, and solo pacing depending on the game’s importance.

c. Outlook for Remaining Series and Fan Temperaments (74:00–86:35)

• Optimism battles superstition: Luke dwells on savoring the possibility of a pressure-free win; Andrew counterbalances with anxiety about the Mariners carving a new, painful narrative.
• Quote: "I think what I’m worried about is the narrative where we lost in a devastating way... But I’m really scared of some sort of narrative that turns it into, 'boy they really owned us in a specifically torturous way.'” —Andrew (85:00)

7. Callers Chime In / Listener Voicemails (131:24)

• Fans express support, joy, and share that following the Mariners is more meaningful because of TBTL.

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Notable Tangents & Memorable Quotes

On Mariners Fandom and Baseball’s Emotional Knife-Edge

• “Every single pitch could just be the game… There is just something unique about the way baseball functions as a sport that turns it into an absolute pressure cooker if you are someone who has, like, you said, Andrew, been really caring about this since March.” —Luke (66:15)
• “You become—particularly when there’s no one else around—a person in your home environment with no supervision and a baseball game on, a playoff baseball game on… it really brings out the crazy.” —Luke (74:46)

On National Anthems, Rivalry, and Politeness (40:41–49:39)

• Andrew raises the fear of Mariners fans booing the Canadian national anthem and expresses hope—shared by both hosts and donors—that the crowd stays respectful.
• Luke: “It used to exist in the category of razzing, but it, to me, it no longer does because of what is happening in this world… I don’t want us booing Canada because we may need to live there.” (44:13–44:21)
• Amusing sponsor thanks interwoven with imagined donor opinions, highlighting the show's meta-satire and deep listener relationships.

On Mariners Manager Dan Wilson and Managerial Debates (93:08–118:52)

• Extended, passionate debate about Dan Wilson’s performance as manager: Is he a “beer-loving, vibes guy” getting lucky, or a quietly capable leader? Are managers ever heroes, or only scapegoats?
• Quote: “I guess I feel like... the outcome from it has overall been, for me, positive. And so, like, I guess to me the proof’s in the pudding and the pudding is pretty good right now.” —Luke (111:09)
• The segment highlights how sports talk culture, fan psychology, and close textual analysis collide for fans in October baseball.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Riff / "Describe Me in One Word or Less" — 00:00–01:40
• Mariners Superstitions & Paddington Sweater — 01:41–06:45
• The Calligraphy Ad Mystery — 06:45–19:39
• Personal Calligraphy-Signage Backstory — 19:39–24:30
• Box Etiquette & Family Dynamics — 24:30–32:00
• Emotional Playoff Baseball Odyssey — 32:00–72:06
• National Anthem & Fan Etiquette Debate — 40:41–49:39
• Listener Voicemails — 131:24

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Tone & Language

The episode is classic TBTL: improvisational, self-effacing, and highly personal—equal parts wise, neurotic, and compassionate. Banter is laced with niche references, gentle sarcasm, and affectionate self-deprecation. Listeners are assumed to be in on decades of in-jokes, but the content remains inviting and earnest, especially when tackling sports, family, and the eccentric joys of "naming some guys."

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Summary: Why Listen

If you’re a Mariners fan, a sports-obsessed neurotic, or simply love hearing two friends spiral about life’s meaning squeezed through snacks, family detritus, and October playoff tension—this is TBTL at its best: funny, real, and sneakily profound, with room for sublime digressions from calligraphy to cardboard boxes to why baseball can make normally rational adults lose their finely polished minds.

Transcript

[Andrew]

Can you describe me in one word or less?

[Luke Burbank]

Chubby.

[Andrew]

Thank you. Can you describe me in one word or less? Meow.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, okay.

[Andrew]

Thank you. Describe me in one word or less?

[Luke Burbank]

Magic. I guess.

[Andrew]

I am magic. Yeah. Can you describe me in one word or less?

[Luke Burbank]

Creamy.

[Andrew]

I guess. Can you describe me in one word or less? You? Yes. Meat snacks. Can you describe me in one word or less? Please. Can you describe me in one word or less? Ragu. Describe me in one word or less?

[Luke Burbank]

Yay.

[Andrew]

Exactly. Exactly. Tbtl.

[Luke Burbank]

I was shaking. My tongue was shaking, My head was shaking. My arms were shaking.

[Andrew]

And my legs.

[Luke Burbank]

My feet too.

[Andrew]

Oh, I see.

[Luke Burbank]

Dirty monkey.

[Andrew]

Not okay, but dirty monkey dance. I don't know if it's video games.

[Luke Burbank]

Or what, but it's so unfair to after something like this to blame people in the backseat or say they deserved it.

[Andrew]

Best friends are very cool to be friends. Very best friends are dope to be. And what we did see is we took them turds and we crammed them in between the number there. So that's one Turdy, two turdy, three turdi. I love candy for dinner. What about you? They taste like burning.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, all right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Monday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live.

[Andrew]

It's Trucktober.

[Luke Burbank]

My name's Luke Burbank. I'm your host. Nobody buys me. Nobody buys me either. Coming to you from the Madrona Hill studio, perched high above the mighty Columbia, where it is an absolutely spectacular day here on October 13th. Oh, ma pa. It's just beautiful. I saw something this morning that I don't know if I've seen before. It was, I'm gonna say, I don't know, maybe two to 300 geese. And they were flying along above the mighty Columbia. Now, they were going north, which seems like a problem for them based on the time of year. But they weren't flying in that sort of V that we've all seen before. They were flying in single file. So there was like one in the front. And then you go back about two or 300 geese, and there's one at the back. And this line of geese was undulating. It was as it should have went north above the Columbia River. And it was just. It was absolutely gorgeous. It was a heck of a way to start this Monday for me. And it made me feel like maybe luck is on my side today.

[Andrew]

It's your lucky day. You just found a USB flash drive.

[Luke Burbank]

In the parking lot. I'm also wearing my lucky sweater. My newly I guess sort of minted lucky sweater with Paddington Bear on it. I put this on. I was wearing this on Friday night basically when the Mariners. I don't know if you know this, but we're pretty interested in the Seattle Mariners here on this podcast right now. And the Mariners were playing on Friday night and things were not going well. And then I put on this Paddington sweater. Hello, I'm a thousand years old and I'm a Mariners fan and I after I put the sweater on, they came back and won the game. And so then I wore the sweater for yesterday's game and they won the game. And so now I guess I live in this sweater. We all live together inside episode 4574 in a collector series the fun begin. Yeah, there will be probably some Mariners talk today. I don't know how to avoid it, my friends. I won't trash talk.

[Andrew]

I won't be out there blowharding.

[Luke Burbank]

If we do manage to exhaust that topic and I'll mention something. Andrew and I just did a 55 minute show for and with each other that we did not record to try to, as we say, foam off, burn off, off gas some of our most detail oriented and wrong headed takes about the X's and O's of baseball so that when we do talk about the Mariners today, we don't get so bogged down in those details. If we do manage to get through all of that and we still have some time, I do want to talk about the stolen dinosaur. Somebody stole a dinosaur in the Palisades. Neighbor of a neighborhood of California.

[Andrew]

You gotta be kidding me.

[Luke Burbank]

But it brought the neighborhood together. We'll get it's by the way, it's a dinosaur. It's the type of dinosaur that's come up on TBT recently. So we'll sometime either today or tomorrow or in the next three months get into that. We'll definitely though say hi to this guy. He is the longest running copro of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. He's had a ton of adventures already this weekend or last weekend that he'd like to share with us today. I'm out of you. I'm few.

[Andrew]

What?

[Luke Burbank]

Few small beers. He's Andrew Walsh and he's joining me right now. Good morning my friend.

[Andrew]

Good morning Luke. I am going to start with a topic that has nothing to do with the Seattle Mariners and really nothing to do with sports. Just as a little courtesy.

[Luke Burbank]

A good idea.

[Andrew]

Just a little courtesy. Obviously the sports weekend is going to come up. It was potentially the biggest one of my life. But in an attempt to throw a bone to the people who do not care about our Seattle Mariners, I'm going to ask you. See, Turning this into a quiz is such a bad idea. I did it this way to Genevieve, and it didn't pay off. But I don't learn my lessons easily, so I will say that it's related, sort of, to the Seattle Seahawks. I didn't really pay attention to the Seahawks game much yesterday, but I had it on in the background on the radio. And I heard something at the very end of the Seahawks game yesterday during a commercial break that I realized I had heard the week before as well and wanted to ask you about. Clearly, this is a commercial for a company that specifically has bought ad space during Seahawks games, not just generally on the sports radio station I listen to, because I listen to that station all the time and I never hear this commercial. But now I've heard this commercial twice, and both times it was near the end of a Seattle Seahawks game on the radio. Would you like to take a guess as to what I heard? And I will. This is how I set it up for Genevieve, and it failed. It was the least likely product or service I could have imagined advertising, specifically during a football game. And it's not necessarily gendered, by the way. Genevieve went right to that because she's sexist.

[Luke Burbank]

Always with her.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And I'm tired of it. Honestly.

[Andrew]

I am, too.

[Luke Burbank]

It's not because this product is associated with a different sport.

[Andrew]

No. That's a good guess, too. I also think this is. I've set you up. There's no way you're gonna think of this. I've set you up for failure.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I'm gonna ask for some hints that might get me closer.

[Andrew]

Okay, let's do some more.

[Luke Burbank]

I can't be defeated in my lucky padding.

[Andrew]

No, I do love that shirt. That's cute as hell, by the way.

[Luke Burbank]

It's really me stepping outside of my comfort zone because you. You know me, I'm pretty monochromatic. I don't like to wear.

[Andrew]

I thought you're gonna say macho. You know me, Macho. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You think this is screaming? He's wearing a green Paddington holding a New York Times newspaper.

[Andrew]

It's a pullover. Sweatshirt. It's a green classic looking pullover. Oh, I'm sorry. Sweater. Luke or sweatshirt? Yeah, sweater.

[Luke Burbank]

It's funny. That's depending on where in the world I've heard people call. I've heard people interchange those, but I would call This a sweater?

[Andrew]

It's a sweater. It's the sweater material, not like a sweatshirt material. And it's just all green. But then there's a nice cute depict. Is that Paddington? Is that.

[Luke Burbank]

It's Paddington.

[Andrew]

Paddington Bear. But he's not wearing anything but a tie. Doesn't Paddington sometimes wear, like, a rain slicker yellow bear?

[Luke Burbank]

Not this one.

[Andrew]

And he's holding a new. He's wearing a tie and he's holding a newspaper. And that's it. It's very cute, but I usually just.

[Luke Burbank]

Wear stuff that's very typically black and no writing. I don't like hats with a lot of writing. I don't. I don't go in for cutesy. But something about this sweater kind of spoke to me when I saw it online. And so then it had arrived on Friday, and the Mariners were having a tough time. And at some point, out of sheer desperation because I'd already feathered the nest. We're coming back to this quiz, by the way. I had already feathered this nest. That is my weird shrine that I'm building on my. On and near my television. It's got a photograph of my niece Gemma in Mariner's gear. It's got now a photograph of my brothers Sam and Dave in. In Mariners outfits. And it's also got the Stubbot Jorge Polanco ball is now there.

[Andrew]

You've pulled that back from the upstairs.

[Luke Burbank]

That came downstairs out of retirement stairs on Friday night. It's out of retirement. It's closer to the television. It worked, by the way, in that Rango. Everybody's calling him Rango. Hit. Can we. No, we can't. Can we talk about how, like, I think I may, I managed to just force that into being a thing on our text chain. Nobody else calls him Rango, but I do think just through sheer repetition. And my brother David now always texting Buff Rango. Like that thing I noted at the beginning of the season, like he looks like the cartoon character Rango to me, at least within our text chain, I managed to kind of make that a shared language. Okay. But back to this. This sweater, I put it on probably in the 11th inning out of just desperation. I just thought something needs to shift in the mojo. And then they ended up winning. And then I was wearing it yesterday. Becca and I were hanging out and I had it on. And then I didn't even realize that I came home and then I was watching the game and I had it on day one. So now it's a whole thing. Okay, back to the Quiz. So this is the least likely. And it's local to Seattle.

[Andrew]

This service is in Seattle.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. It's the least likely service to have a specifically football focused.

[Andrew]

Is it now, the commercial itself doesn't mention football or anything. I just think it's very interesting that this. That the people who run this particular. What I'm going to guess is a small shop decided to spend what I would guess to be, by radio advertising standards, a big part of their budget. A big part of their budget to air during Seahawks games.

[Luke Burbank]

Is it crazy? Owls? House of cte?

[Andrew]

How did you know?

[Luke Burbank]

I told you. I'm wearing my lovely sweater.

[Andrew]

Crazy. Ls House of Cte cannot afford this ad space.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. Okay. Because that would be a weird place for them to be advertising.

[Andrew]

You're right. That would be strange.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Okay. No, is it a. Let's see. What would the prod.

[Andrew]

I'm trying to think of it almost more. I think you would describe this more as a service than a product.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. A serve. Okay. Because there's a lot. I mean, there's a million things that come right to mind because they are the typical. I'm going to try to, like, kind of work backwards. You're having a flashing light.

[Andrew]

Did you just see that, too? Okay. You saw that too, right?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. You did not hallucinate that there.

[Andrew]

Was it all the lights. Was it all the lights in my studio or just that lamp behind me?

[Luke Burbank]

I think just the lamp.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, be careful, my friend.

[Andrew]

Oh, it just did it again. I don't know what's going on. Is it happening? Oh, wait, no. Now my other lamps are going out. My. My ring light just went out. Am I having a breaker issue?

[Luke Burbank]

Maybe. But we are. Our connection remains ironclad, I guess, which is good. That's good. If something's gonna stay online, I'm glad it's this, our little connection.

[Andrew]

The listeners are like, well, they're not talking about baseball, at least. I'm gonna go fix this ring light. You go ahead and make another guess.

[Luke Burbank]

I love the idea that there is somebody outside of your house who's actually flipping the breaker to keep us from talking about Mariner baseball.

[Andrew]

Oh, you know what? There is construction going on outside of my house.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, that could be.

[Andrew]

Although it's. Why is it only. Why is it happening to different people?

[Luke Burbank]

It could be knocking your computer offline if it's.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Although your computer is on power.

[Andrew]

Unless it's like. Yeah, they're. They're.

[Luke Burbank]

But it's not knocking your WI fi offline.

[Andrew]

No, they're very, very fast, or are we in heaven? Is this.

[Luke Burbank]

Is this Holy forking? Shirtball. Okay, so this is a. What I was starting to say was there are so many services that come to mind. You know, whether it's roofing, whether it's, you know, heating and cooling, whether it's slab jacking. There's so much, you know, those kind of local electrical. Those, like, local companies that will do a big spend on becoming the official, you know, the official flooring company of the Seattle Seahawks or whatever those are. So you're saying it's not one of those kinds of things. Those are. Those are a natural choice. You're saying it's something else that's very un. Is it something. Is it an emotional thing? Is it like, a therapist?

[Andrew]

It's not a therapist. I think that would be really smart. And actually, I do hear some really good therapy commercials, like, online therapy commercials during, like, just regular sports radio programming, which I actually think are really good.

[Luke Burbank]

That's actually cool.

[Andrew]

There's one, Luke, and I don't have it in front of me here because it's really hard to find radio commercials. I've been looking for this one that I'm trying to get you to guess, but there is one that begins with just a male voice, just, like, kind of. I think he's sort of berating himself. And then they just start, like, layering voices over top. Have you heard this commercial? So it's like a cacophony. It's the same voice, but it's basically what goes on in my head. It's like this guy. It becomes like one voice is criticizing you. Then it, like, starts overlapping, overlapping, overlapping, until it's a cacophony of your own voice sort of saying, like, dummy. And I was like, whoa. Yeah, you found me. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I wonder, are those ads typically for, like, mental health? Like, call this number if you're having trouble.

[Andrew]

It wasn't like a PSA. It was more of a hey, getbetterhelp.com or something.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, nice.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. It was a really good. It was a really good ad.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that is. That's well conceived and sounds, like, well executed. Okay, so it's not therapy. It's a thing that we are surprised. It's a company that we're surprised is spending a big amount of. It's a large amount of its budget, probably on ads that are super specific to the Seattle Seahawks. Is it? Well, the Los Angeles Rams.

[Andrew]

Just to be very clear, the service and the ads are not incorporating football in the ads. It's just the placement that I find interesting.

[Luke Burbank]

So they don't mention the Seahawks.

[Andrew]

They don't mention the Seahawks. Well, then how do you know it's.

[Luke Burbank]

Specific to the Seahawks?

[Andrew]

Because I told you. Like, I know that it's just airing during the football games because I. This is not me bragging. This is me admitting.

[Luke Burbank]

Listen to so much I listen to.

[Andrew]

I know the ads. I can sing along.

[Luke Burbank]

I trust you. Yeah, I trust you on this.

[Andrew]

For certain games. When the, when the, when baseball comes around you, during the games, you start to hear ads that you don't hear during just regular programming. Like certain, you know, the salespeople are selling ads to air during games. That's different than the salespeople just selling ads to air during Bump and Stacy or some other talk show. Right?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So I've only heard this commercial twice, and it was both near the end of the Seahawks game. Like, I think maybe even bridging. I feel like this service has a specific slot that might be right after the game, but before the post game show.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, now is that related to the service they provide?

[Andrew]

No. It's just shocking that this service decided to advertise not just on sports radio, but during a Seahawks game. And I'm not trying to be insulting towards them. I think it's awesome. And maybe when I tell you this, you'll think that I'm just stereotyping and that there's no there there.

[Luke Burbank]

Is it a service? Is it pet related?

[Andrew]

It is not pet related.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. Is it something that we think of as being. I know it's not therapy, but that we think. I'm going with this and I'm getting too kind of, I think, bogged down in this idea that, like, football is fierce and machismo and violent and that this is something that is not that.

[Andrew]

Yes, I think that is it. And again, I'm not trying to stand.

[Luke Burbank]

So that is it. So I'm in the right way.

[Andrew]

I think of this. I will use this to description. I think of this as a very delicate service. It's very delicate.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. It's. It's a delicate service. Is it like something physical with, like massage with, you know, somebody getting their fingernails done? Something. Is it like a. I'm trying to think of pampering. Is it something that's. That you would think of as pampering?

[Andrew]

Not pampering.

[Luke Burbank]

Not pampering.

[Andrew]

I've literally never heard a commercial, TV or radio. I've never heard this service advertised before this.

[Luke Burbank]

Or. Okay, but it's very soft. You think of it as being.

[Andrew]

I think of it as being very, very gentle.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. Very delicate. Is it delicate? Is it for a hypnotist?

[Andrew]

It is not for a hypnotist.

[Luke Burbank]

Is it for flute lessons?

[Andrew]

It is not who I like what we're doing here. We're very much. I'm getting into. This is very super password.

[Luke Burbank]

Is it? I'm getting meditative. Is it for a place? Is it for a place? Andrew, where is it for one of those sensory deprivation float.

[Andrew]

Oh, no. And again, I have a gift certificate, too. Have you done that before? Genevieve is huge into that.

[Luke Burbank]

I have to. I just realized something in this very moment, Andrew, which is I must really have. There must be something about my brand that really tells my mother's in law that I need to chill out.

[Andrew]

You need to relax.

[Luke Burbank]

Because my. I guess you would say former mother in law, Cheryl, who I adored and I still adore to this day, love her very much. She once bought me as a gift a float session in one of those eggs. And I used it, and it was great, and I really appreciated it. And then I just remembered that this weekend when I was hanging out with Becca, she goes, you know, you still have that float that my mom got you?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

What's going on with me?

[Andrew]

Everybody's getting you floats.

[Luke Burbank]

The mothers. But it's not just that everyone's getting them for you. It's the mothers of the people that I'm in a relationship with are like, that guy should go inside an egg and float in some very salty water and think about things.

[Andrew]

Next year, it's just gonna be Xanax. Do I stutter?

[Luke Burbank]

Can. Let's eliminate the middle. Listen, hit me with that, Zanny. I needed that on Friday night. I was using. I was going completely natural on it, and it was tough. More on that in the moment. Okay.

[Andrew]

O.

[Luke Burbank]

Let's see. I don't know. Can you give me one more hint? And then I'll just.

[Andrew]

Let's see here. Well, I will say it's. I've never heard this thing advertised before. I believe. Okay. It is related. Well, I'll just tell you. It's related to handwriting, Luke.

[Luke Burbank]

Handwriting.

[Andrew]

It's related. It is for handwriting. Luke. I'm going to tell you. It's for a calligraphy service.

[Luke Burbank]

Whoa.

[Andrew]

And this is not me dunking on them. This is me absolutely not standing up and saluting them. I've never really considered calligraphy services before. Yeah, I think it's. I'm guessing the majority of people who would. Who would hire that service Would probably be for event planning, specifically weddings. Right. And I think in the commercial, they even. I'm sorry, I would shout out the company. I just can't remember. I think I'm always so overwhelmed by the fact that I'm hearing a calligraphy commercial after just hearing a bunch of men bang their heads into each other and go into blue tents. And then they're just like, you need calligraphy at your next event. And they. It sounds like you can either, you know, hire them to write invitations and that kind of stuff, or it sounds like they're also advertising, set up a calligraphy table at your next event. And, you know, I love this so much. Isn't it great?

[Luke Burbank]

That's great. And yeah, if you hear that ad again, you remember them, let's give them a free plug. Because I support small local calligraphy. I'm tired of big calligraphy coming in and undercutting all of the local folks.

[Andrew]

Well, and then really, just then eventually.

[Luke Burbank]

Jacking the prices on calligraphy. You know, I have, like. It's. It's strange. Calligraphy has touched my own life, Andrew, and my own. My own childhood. When we moved up to Seattle from the commune, it was so that my dad could work at this sign business, which was called signworks. And I think the idea was that he was kind of mostly going to be the sort of bookkeeper for the business because there was two guys that worked at the business. There was this guy named Peter and Jerry, which sounds like they could have founded a successful ice cream company, but they didn't. They went with signage. And when we moved up here, they both Peter and Jerry, decided they were not interested in making signs anymore. And so then my dad had to become the guy making the signs, which he didn't know anything about it. He just had to kind of, like, figure it out.

[Andrew]

I did not realize. And this is the company that's still the name of the company that your dad runs.

[Luke Burbank]

This is the company that is still happening and is still my dad.

[Andrew]

He's not technically the founder. He's like the Elon Musk of this sign.

[Luke Burbank]

100%. He's the Howard Schultz.

[Andrew]

Don't tell him. Don't tell him I said that.

[Luke Burbank]

He muscled out. No, he would not like that.

[Andrew]

No, he would not. Please do not listen.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, we talk about this a lot. I feel very fortunate that my parents are not. That their politics are. I don't know if their politics are aligned with mine, but they're not fans of the current president, which I think for me is a Relief, because it would be really hard if I had to try to reconcile that with people that I love. But let me tell you who. My dad's almost on the other side. Like, I'm like, we got to. We got to hang a blanket over all of the screens in the house.

[Andrew]

Because if he sees he's triggered this.

[Luke Burbank]

Current president on television, he just loses it to a degree that's almost like, okay, Walt. But anyway, here's. Here's my point. When we got to Seattle and when. And when Walt went to work at Signworks, Jerry decided, you know what? I'm really more. I want to follow my love of painting. By the way, he's a phenomenal painter to this day. Like a really, really talented painter of, you know, all kinds of things. He's really creative and. And great painter. But Peter and his wife Buffy, although I think she now goes by a different name. Back then, we called them Peter and Buffy. Peter and Buffy. They decided. He decided to leave Signworks because he wanted to pursue full time his calligraphy business.

[Andrew]

Really? See, and that's. That's kind of in line. I could see that. It's about, like, you know, lettering. I mean, that is an amazing thing to be able to.

[Luke Burbank]

Their thing was they would do. They would. They would do two different kinds of projects. They would do calligraph of Bible verses, which then they would frame, and they would go to, like, the University street fair in Seattle. They would go around to, like, think about anything that was like a sort of a kind of a proto farmers market. Like anything where you might show up on a Saturday and there'd be lots of booths set up and people would be selling different things. They would go around selling, like, calligraphy. And these were these beautiful little, like, pieces of parchment paper that would then have a frame around them, and it would be a Bible verse. And then also they did pressed flowers. So sometimes you could buy like a little framed thing of pressed flowers. It was all very beautiful, but it was interesting to me that it was clear that calligraphy was a. Was a. A bigger financial winner in their life than Signworks. That should have told you something, right?

[Andrew]

Exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

We're leaving. We're leaving this sign business for the lucrative world of calligraphy, because that will pay more than doing these signs.

[Andrew]

Calligraphy is my backup plan.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, exactly. Calligraphy was safety school.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And at no time did my dad go that might indicate something about the sign trade.

[Andrew]

Well, it sounds like he's done. All right.

[Luke Burbank]

I love that. Sure, he has. I'm his biggest employer.

[Andrew]

Say did he.

[Luke Burbank]

Worked out really well.

[Andrew]

Does he charge my. Do they charge mileage for their calligraphy services?

[Luke Burbank]

I am the. I think. You know what? I just got the most recent bill, and I didn't see mileage on there.

[Andrew]

Oh, do you think that he heard you? I don't know. He didn't bring it up about that on the show.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't. He didn't bring it up. I don't know if it's just also, it was a sort of a. It was a. How do I put it? First of all, I didn't look very closely because I kind of don't want to know. And also, my parents were on a journey. They came down here. Then they went and visited my sister Liz and my nephews, and then they sort of came back. So maybe if he's doing a family trip as part of it, he doesn't.

[Andrew]

That'd be sus.

[Luke Burbank]

I gotta say, I don't know the system. I have a new thing that I'm mad at him about, but it's all right. It's not mad. It's just I'm litigating a new thing in my own head starting yesterday afternoon, which is. You know how I got. I got that big outdoor fire pit that could pot, in my mind is somehow possibly conservative coded, which I have no actual evidence for that other than my spidey sense. And how the first one they sent me had this, like, strange ooze covering it.

[Andrew]

No, I don't. Did you talk about the ooze on the show?

[Luke Burbank]

I thought I mentioned this to you. They mailed me one, and it was covered in this strange, almost like liquid cement that was not supposed to be on there. It had somehow gotten.

[Andrew]

I feel like I'd remember this even me.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, right. So they sent me the first one in the mail, and it was. Had this weird. Almost like something had happened. I don't know if it was at the facility. I don't know when this happened. Maybe it was on its way. Something had leaked into the cardboard box that. This fire pit, which is metal and very heavy. Right. It was in the box. This ooze had leaked into the box and had stuck to the side of the fire pit itself. And it was a lot of it, and it was impossible to get off. That's why I'm calling it like a liquid cement of some kind.

[Andrew]

What color was it?

[Luke Burbank]

Grayish. I could send you a photo and.

[Andrew]

It had to send them up. Solidified, though.

[Luke Burbank]

At this point, it's solidified and not like, oh, this is A little bit of, like, funk on it. And like, you know, I'll. I'll brush it off with a wire brush. It's like, again, it was almost like some kind of very, very commercial concrete, Liquid concrete. Product of some kind. And it had kind of. It had sort of adhered itself to a significant amount of the fire pit's exterior. Yeah. And this was not a cheap item. And so I emailed them and I said, you know, hey, this happened to this. What should I do? And they said, oh, we'll mail you a new one. And they said, and if you don't mind, if you want to just mail the other one back. I was like, okay. So they sent me the new one, and I realized pretty quickly, oh, they don't give two whits about the first one. It's not even worth it for them, really, for me to send it back. Where's it going to go?

[Andrew]

They can't use it.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, they're not going to reuse it. Like, they don't then. And by the way, no one followed up. Like, I just had. So I got the replacement one, which was great. I set that up, and then I took the old one and I put it in this box.

[Andrew]

That, that.

[Luke Burbank]

The.

[Andrew]

That.

[Luke Burbank]

The. That it had come in this big cardboard box. It's a very heavy item. I can't. I can't overstate that. And it goes in this specific box. And I put it in this specific box in case they followed up and were like, hey, where's our bunk fire pit that we sent you? And then an amount of time went by, and I was like, I realized they're never coming for this. And so me and my dad have been sitting out at the fire pit a lot, and we really enjoy it. And I said, hey, you know what? If you and mom want it, I have another one that they sent me that's got all this crud on it.

[Andrew]

But how long has it been since they sent you the new one?

[Luke Burbank]

Like a day? No, no, Like. Like, I don't know, a month or something.

[Andrew]

A month. Okay, that's good. That's good. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I think enough time is. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. Well, you know me, I feel pretty okay with not having it, I guess, if you know what I mean. Like, if they were to go, hey, send us the other one, like, I went through in my mind, how. What could they do if I don't send them the. The bunk one? So I said to my dad, hey, do you. Do you. If you Want this? I have it. And then I. And then I sort of actually forgot about that, that I'd mentioned that to him. And then the other yesterday, they were still here at my house, and my dad was like, hey, can I grab that fire pit thing? And I was like, yeah, it's in this huge box. It's like, under the deck. It's really heavy. You might want to wait for me to be there or use the hand truck or whatever. And, like, he's like, oh, okay. And then he's like, text me later. Oh, I got it. It's in the truck. And I was like, okay, cool.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

And I. So I come home, and it's raining. It was raining a lot yesterday here. And I look over, and by my garbage can, there is the massive cardboard box that it had been in that is now sitting there soaking wet that I now have to deal with.

[Andrew]

Would you have preferred him to take the whole box or leave the box and keep it dry in case you needed it for something else?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, that also would have been an option. I didn't even consider that.

[Andrew]

Okay, you're just mad that you don't want to deal with the garbage.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't want to deal with a rotting wet. I'm like, your son gives you a $500 fire pit, and it's like, take the cannoli, leave the gun. It's like, take the fire pit. Leave the garbage for him.

[Andrew]

Here's the deal. And this is the pain and pleasure of being an Andrew. Can you at least relax in knowing that nobody.

[Luke Burbank]

I can answer that question.

[Andrew]

That nobody would have thrown it away properly anyway? That's the one thing. Sometimes when I see, like, if Genevieve leaves a box somewhere, I'm partially like, really? We couldn't have thrown that away. We're just gonna leave that for the universe to take care of. I'm the universe in. But then I'm like, you know what, though? If that had been recycled and it wasn't me, it would have just been shoved in the recycling bin and taken up, like, more than half of it. Like, I go out there, I cut it up into a bunch of little pieces. I'm an insane person. I know I'm not really the one in the right in this story, but in a certain way, I'm like, well, yeah, I'm the one to do that. That I need to do that, because I'm the only one who knows how to do it.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, the problem. The reason that that theory does not map nicely over this experience is my dad is very Type A with that stuff. So if my dad would have brought that home, he would have, like, exactly like you. He would have. He probably has a special box cutter that he uses. He would have flattened everything because they deal with cardboard in their life. It was something about me giving him this thing that's actually has. Even with the gunk on it, I realized later I could have probably sold it on ebay if I wanted to. All that would have been morally questionable, but, like, a decently high street value. And it's fine. I, like, I love my mom and dad. I want them to have things that make their life more enjoyable. But there was something about, again, like, take the fire pit, Leave the trash for me. That was just like. Because now. Now I have to take this and break it down and take it down to the recycling thing and throw it in. By the way, this will take me all of 10 minutes of my life. But there was. I. You know what I think really is underpinning all this was a slight feeling of like, oh, wow. I. In a moment of. In a. In a. I wouldn't. I don't want to call it weakness, but in a moment of feeling a certain way, I was like, oh, you should have this. And I. Probably 5% of me was like, oh, was that the way. Was that the way for me to, like, should I have given it to them? Should I have given it to somebody else? Should I have donated it? Should I have tried to resell it? I don't know. Should I have held onto it for an extra six months in case they reach out and go, like, where's our fire pit? Like, I think really what's going on here was. After I made the offer, I then wondered if that was the right decision. And then I kind of forgot about it. And then my dad was like, oh, hey, how about that thing that you said in passing the other day? Which. That's on me. That is on me.

[Andrew]

And then, hold on. Did you sort of feel like maybe it would have taken. You sort of said in passing this time. So do you feel like the first time it was raised, it was almost like a. Oh, yeah, maybe that would be a good idea. But maybe we would have had one more conversation that was like, are you sure this is good? Are you sure this is cool? Before I take this thing, it's only.

[Luke Burbank]

We only had one conversation about it, and I think I want to frame it as it was, quote, in passing. It probably wasn't. I think it was me saying to him, hey, if you want it, you can have it. So, like, what I realize is this is totally on me. I think what's. I think what's underpinning all of it is this slightly complex thing of the financial. Now it's just happening. The financial relationship between me and my parents, specifically me and my dad. And that when my dad is here working, he's paid like any I would pay anybody else. And I. That's to me fair and right. This is a lot of time out of my dad's life. But then you get into this other stuff, which is kind of like, I don't know, it's. It. What I would say to people out there is it complicates your relationship when you have hired one of your parents and you're the major employer of one of your parents. When you then sort of give them something that's kind of worth actually a lot of money, but also it's kind of jacked up. So it kind of isn't worth a lot of money. But it's like somehow I feel like somehow the. The big wet cardboard box being left behind for me to deal with. I think it touched a slight nerve that's related to other larger questions and issues about some of the nature of our relationship.

[Andrew]

You were doing something nice for the help and you just sort of felt.

[Luke Burbank]

Like they should have did a little. And all I ask is no direct eye contact.

[Andrew]

That's right. It seems like, you know what we.

[Luke Burbank]

Just did, though, Andrew? You know what critically we just did.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I know exactly what we just did because I was looking at the clock and it's 30ish minutes into the show. 32 minutes into the show. And we have no baseball talk. With no baseball talk. You're welcome.

[Luke Burbank]

Direct. Direct baseball.

[Andrew]

We have. We have different. We have different listeners who have different needs on this. Now. I got a lot of.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, we have a lot of people who are mad at us that it's been 32 minutes.

[Andrew]

Yeah. But I honestly, I wasn't trying to troll. I honestly do think we've been talking a lot of baseball on the show lately because it's been all last week. I couldn't conjure up anything else to talk about. So this weekend I was like, calligraphy. That's what I'll come in. And that was smart. And it was smart.

[Luke Burbank]

And that got me into my deteriorating relationship with my father.

[Andrew]

Exactly. And some real confessional stuff, which is really what people want us here is talk about. I do know that also people were. And this is where I love our relationship with the listeners. And it Also reminds me of relationships I have with other podcasts. Like, there are so many people who wouldn't usually give a. I'm going to swear here. Dang. About baseball, let alone this specific Seattle Mariners baseball team who are going out of their minds with happiness for us and texting us and emailing us and telling us that they stayed up on the east coast until really late to watch this game on Friday. And so also, I do appreciate that the folks who. Who are just kind of like, along for the ride. That's really sweet.

[Luke Burbank]

Our friend, television's Chris Hayes and his son David, he texted us last night, and this was. The game was still very much in question. And he said, david and I have decided to emotionally invest in the Mariners. And I was like, I know.

[Andrew]

I saved yourself. Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, I like that kind of. But also, be very, very aware. Yes, beware, Beware. Be very, very aware of that, sir. So, yeah, it's our brand. I mean, I was getting, like, I was getting texts over the weekend from people I haven't talked to in years about this. So you're right. It is also something that a lot of our listeners are very psyched about. So why don't we do this? Maybe we thank some donors and then. And then we'll jump into all of that. For those of you who. Who are very invested in that plot line of. Of Seattle and the show and everything. Thank you, baby. Phew. Andrew, I just did a quick scan, and I'm not seeing us trying to thank any of our fine, wonderful, and beloved. I can't overstate this. Canadian listeners. Canadian donors slash listeners. Because, you know, I've been. I've been corresponding with some of them, including listener Sarah, and we've been basically saying, listen, we love each other, we love you, we love Canada. We right now are rooting for a baseball team, the Mariners, that are playing the Toronto Blue Jays. But please understand that our love for that baseball team does not mean that our love for all of you up north has in any way changed.

[Andrew]

No, not at all. I love. I love Canadians. I do, too. And I'm a little bit worried. I heard. I'm probably worrying needlessly, which is my favorite way to worry, by the way, if we're ever on the Newlywed Show. What's your partner's favorite way to worry?

[Luke Burbank]

I think you and Genevieve would actually kill it on that show because you've. Well, now, I guess it's not fair after 20 plus years. That's why it's called the Newlywed Game.

[Andrew]

No, that's why. No, that's the thing. Veeves and I talk about this all the time. It was my idea. I said, listen, we've been dating for now, it's going on 25 years, but we're not actually married. We can get married and then go on the Newlywed Game and we would just absolutely own it.

[Luke Burbank]

You would. That is a great idea. Wait till they reboot that. Hosted by what? Who would be the new host of the Newlywed Game who's currently Joel McHale?

[Andrew]

I was gonna say Wayne Brady, but he's already tied up in another talk show. Right. That's probably why I thought of that. Gesundheit. The listeners didn't hear it, but I saw that sneeze.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. You know, I remember that years ago I made a promise that when I was going to sneeze I would not mute my microphone. And I don't know.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

What that says about where the show is at these days, Andrew. Like if. If that. If that means that we've classed the join up.

[Andrew]

Maybe I appreciated that. You know, our friend Cassie was on the show a long time ago. I'm trying to think maybe this wasn't on the show. This might have been one of those special videos we did a couple of years ago for donors or something. But we. I remember Cassie coming on some sort of TBTL property. Let's call it that. And the saying that she really doesn't like it.

[Luke Burbank]

Our property holdings are bad when.

[Andrew]

When people sneeze really, really loudly. Like I. You know, just like that. That kind of gunshot. Yes. Report of. I don't like that. And I gotta say sometimes when I'm here at home I sneeze very loudly. But I. I sort of tried to defend that behavior a little bit out of concern that I'm one of those people and I'm not somebody who's looking for attention usually. But just sometimes that's how it works. But I will say I actually had to text Cassie on Friday. I was walking to the Eagles. That was the big game night. Right. I'm getting all my days confused. I was walking to the Eagles and like okay, I'm at least take a really long walk to try to try to work off some of this energy. And I had Luke my over the ear headphones on. Don't forget we're still going to get to my favorite way to worry.

[Luke Burbank]

Did you Josh Nailer it? I had.

[Andrew]

What does that mean?

[Luke Burbank]

You sneeze your headphones right off?

[Andrew]

No, no, my headphones were on over the ear headphones Noise canceling on. I'm listening to pre game coverage and I jumped out of my skin when somebody sneezed behind me. I turned around, he was like at least a half a block behind me. Yeah. He was walking a dog and he sneezed and it scared. I jumped, Luke. I jumped. My headphones were on. We were outside. I was far away from him.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Here's what I think about that loud sneeze. Well, first of all, here's one thing. Sneezing is extremely pleasant, I think, for most people, although I'm at the age where I have to really make sure I'm engaging my core so I don't injure something when I sneeze.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Relatable.

[Luke Burbank]

So that's a consideration. But, you know, sneezing is. Can be a kind of. A very satisfying kind of a. It's a good feeling. There's. I don't know if this is like junk science or real science, but there's some. Some conversation around. It's. It's. It's actually on the spectrum towards, you know, like a sort of a sexual kind of moment for people or whatever. When you're by yourself and you got a sneeze and you really just let it fly. That's a great feeling. And I think everyone should enjoy that. If you are in public or if you're around other people who are not expecting it, then I think real. I don't know what I said to you and Cassie back in the day, but where I. Where I'm currently at on this is if you. You just let it fly around other people, that's a little bit disrespectful because they're not prepared for it.

[Andrew]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that that's kind of what I realized is, first of all, I don't. When I heard this guy sneeze, I'm like, oh, that's what these guys are talking about. I've never sneezed that loud in my life. Even when I was alone, even when they sent me out to space with Katy Perry, I didn't sneeze that loud. I don't know if you knew I was on that trip, but I was.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, you sneezed the song what a Wonderful World in the style of Louis Armstrong.

[Andrew]

I did. Anyway, here's what I'm worried about. I saw somebody on Blue sky saying, I really hope people don't boo the Canadian national anthem when the Toronto Blue Jays come down here to Seattle.

[Luke Burbank]

I do, as I sure hope they don't either.

[Andrew]

Exactly. I was like, I didn't even think about that as being a possibility, but I think that there were some sports teams that. And I'm trying to think it wouldn't have been football because there aren't any Canadian. Oh, it must have been during the hockey playoffs, during the hockey playoffs last season. I think there's a lot of talk of both. Of both, you know, Canadians. I think I'm right about this and apologies if I'm misrepresenting any, any countries here, but I'm pretty sure that during hockey playoffs there was booing on both sides of national anthems. And I was like, I would be beyond mortified if I would not like Seattle fans booed. I do. I really. One of my least favorite things in the world is when Toronto Blue Jays fans come to T Mobile park and take over our stadium. And sometimes in a not very polite way, despite the reputation, and I really do. I think there's a great rivalry and sometimes even potential toxic rivalry between these two fan bases. But I would be mortified if Seattle fans booed the Canadian national anthem, especially at this time in history.

[Luke Burbank]

Right. I think it's the this time in history thing that really factors in because I think there's a certain. And by the way, I want to thank Christy Pugh, who's in Roanoke, Virginia.

[Andrew]

Thank you, Christy.

[Luke Burbank]

I know Christie's got thoughts on this as well, which I'm going to try to explain verbatim. Christie's thoughts as well as Mike Sylvester's thoughts.

[Andrew]

He's an Everett, Washington, and they're in lockstep on this. Chris.

[Luke Burbank]

They are, despite the fact that they're on different sides of the country, they are. The things that I'm about to say here are going to be exactly their feelings and thoughts on the matter, which is why they donate. Same, believe it or not, for Kathy Walquist who's in Rockland, California.

[Andrew]

And all three of these donors, these wonderful TBT donors have the same opinion that you're about to explain.

[Luke Burbank]

And Andrew, it doesn't stop there. Guess who else thinks exactly like I do. Spa Hitch.

[Andrew]

I thought Worcester, Ohio. If you could have given me a million guesses, I would have never guessed. Nicole.

[Luke Burbank]

But you're saying Cole Spahitz and her calligraphy business, the least likely person I can think of to share my exact opinion on the matter of Mariners fans booing the Toronto, or I should say the Canadian national anthem.

[Andrew]

Before you go on, can I ask you a quick question?

[Luke Burbank]

Please. Yes.

[Andrew]

McKenna Jones in Portland, Oregon. Where are they on this topic?

[Luke Burbank]

Do you have any idea Hard. Disagree.

[Andrew]

Disagree. So McKenna Jones of Portland, Oregon, another.

[Luke Burbank]

Donor, does not agree with anything that I'm about to say. But still, and this is the amazing part, Andrew, donate.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

Still donate.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

McKenna understands that reasonable people can disagree without being disagreeable.

[Andrew]

I love this.

[Luke Burbank]

As my pastor, Dr. Trevor Harris, I really wonder about that doctor part as my bible.

[Andrew]

Are you just sort of realizing. I'm just kind of.

[Luke Burbank]

36 years later, I'm just kind of going, Dr. Trevor Harris. Okay. Wondering about that. The doctor I would like to see. I believe that it's a thing, but I'd like to see what. What institution of higher learning issued that doctorate. Is that PhD? I'd kind of like to see that PhD. Dr. Harris, he did say, though, let's disagree. We can disagree without being disagreeable, which I think is a nice sentiment. And then this is the craziest part of this whole thing. Matt Jones, who has the same last name as McKenna Jones.

[Andrew]

Yes. But is it in Mountain View, California? Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

California.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

100% agrees with. Kathy Walquist's agreeing with me.

[Andrew]

Really? Okay. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

So Matt Jones is in the agrees with Luke, is in lockstep with Luke category.

[Andrew]

McKenna is the only person who doesn't agree with.

[Luke Burbank]

McKenna's the only holdout. And yet McKenna doesn't let it bother them.

[Andrew]

That's great. Okay, awesome. Again. Or should we just do top stories?

[Luke Burbank]

I'm gonna do the opinion now. I'm gonna say thank you to our donors. We couldn't do TBTL without you. Here's the opinion. I could see there was a time long ago when America had not gone completely off the deep end politically, where I think booing the Canadian national anthem was kind of funny. Just kind of like, it's almost wrestling. It's almost like, boo to you. You. You know, like, you know, we'll shake a fist in the air at ya. And, like, you know, yeah, there was a time when I could see all that as kind of good fun and kind of just like, yeah, we're just kind of ribbing you and razzing. Exactly. It used to exist in the category of razzing, but it, to me, it no longer does because of what is happening in this world and particularly what is happening in America and the way that our federal government, particularly the White House, is seeking to alienate Canada and sort of like, for no reason, drive both economies into the absolute abyss. Like, it's just. It's almost like, I don't want us booing Canada because we may need to live there.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right.

[Luke Burbank]

I would like them to. I would like them to be open to the idea of a lot of us moving there. Like, I mean, I used to, like, I told you this off air, but back when I felt like the kind of U.S. canada thing was more just like friendly rivals and more just like there's a lot of similarities between the two countries and dissimilarities in America is obviously this country that takes up all this oxygen on the world stage. And I could understand that Canadians, the Canadians that I knew felt a certain amount of frustration about being sort of feeling a little passed over at times in the conversation. Like, you got this behemoth to the south of you that again, has so many similarities to Canada and yet is always kind of. I'll just use that phrase again, taking up all the oxygen in a lot of different conversations. So I kind of had a little bit of a, like, America, Canada, we're the big brother. We're kind of like. Like, we're razzing Canada. We're giving them a noogie. But it's all kind of in good fun. And now it's like the big brother is not doing well. We're having a lot of concern about the big brother. And now the little brother who's just been kind of hanging out over on the side who's like, actually, you know, still thriving. Generally speaking, we. We may need to go live with the little brother and I. So it's. The whole thing is just so much more fraught than it ever was before.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I. And I'm so just. I can't even decide what adjective to land on here, but let's just say ashamed of my country right now. And I would. I don't even take part in anything that celebrates the country during the ball games myself. And I would certainly just be so embarrassed if I was listening to a broadcast and people were booing. So if any of our listeners. I just don't think I need to say this, though, because none of our listeners who would potentially be going to any of these playoff games in Seattle when the series comes back here would do that. I just can't imagine any of our listeners booing the Canadian anthem.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, this is the other part that I think the four out of the five donors or five out of the six donors absolutely agree with me on, which is I kind of feel like to me, baseball is not super MAGA coded. From a fan base, I would say that the NBA is the least MAGA coded fan base. And then I would say baseball, and then I would say football. You know, is in third place. And then. And I guess maybe, maybe hockey and then football or football and then hockey. But I'm trying to think. I'm just imagining scrolling around T Mobile field at a Mariners playoff game. And again, who am I to divine the true heart of these fans who are there? But there's just something. It just feels to me. And of course there are exceptions to every rule, but it doesn't feel to me like T Mobile park on. What is it? Thursday night is when the series comes back to Seattle. That. Whatever. How many thousand people?

[Andrew]

Is Wednesday?

[Luke Burbank]

Is it Wednesday? Okay, so Wednesday when that. When. When things start up again AT T Mobile. It doesn't feel to me like that is going to be the highest concentrate. What if. Here's what I'm trying to say. How many, how many people roughly do you think T Mobile holds?

[Andrew]

45. I thought. I think it's 45. I want to say. Honestly, I think it's 44, but I will look at it up.

[Luke Burbank]

I think if you took 44,000 people that are in T Mobile field on Wednesday, T Mobile park, and you took a sample of 44,000 people who are in the state of Washington, but not AT T Mobile, Damn, it's almost 48. If you took 48,000 people that are at T Mobile and you took 48,000 people that Are not AT T Mobile that are in Washington state, and by the way, you adjusted out for the fact that there will be a lot of Canadians there. So let's just forget, let's just pretend that all 48,000 people, people who are in that stadium are Mariners fans. Right. And they're drawn from presumably this, let's just say the surrounding area. And then you go grab 48, 000 people from the surrounding area and you tally up their politics, I bet you the 48, 000 people not at T Mobile will trend in a higher amount towards being people that would boo the national anthem of Canada.

[Andrew]

I got.

[Luke Burbank]

Or be open to the idea.

[Andrew]

I lost the. I lost the math there.

[Luke Burbank]

Here's my point. I think baseball, I think.

[Andrew]

Sorry.

[Luke Burbank]

I think that people who love the Mariners are, as a person, less likely to be MAGA than people that don't care about baseball.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. I think so, too. It's interesting as you were divided. And again, I don't know if this is a conversation that we should be having today or that I should be.

[Luke Burbank]

Always do math on the radio.

[Andrew]

And I do want to say one quick thing here, and this is a weird coincidence because the show hasn't posted yet, but I just got an email from McKenna Jones in Portland, Oregon that says I really appreciated all the joshing around the thank yous today. But just to be very clear, I also do not want anybody booing the national anthem. Just not to get that lost. That is not part of the disagreement between you and McKenna McKenna and you are on the same.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, thank you for the clarification.

[Andrew]

I just wanted to make that clear. And McKenna wanted to make it clear because they just sent an email in. Amazingly, somehow I just feel like.

[Luke Burbank]

I feel like the chances of the folks on Wednesday who are there from Seattle booing the Canadian national anthem are. I hope. Anyway, maybe I'm just. This is optimism from me, and I'm in a highly optimistic place. I've got the Paddington sweater on of optimism. You know what? I'm putting on the cloak of optimism here, Andrew, on this Monday. I feel like they're not gonna boo the Canadian national anthem as a group. I sure hope they don't.

[Andrew]

There might be some boneheads who do it, but I was gonna say breaking down this sort of. And again, such a bad idea to do, but breaking down the different sports by kind of like political leanings, you'd certainly have to like, sort of keep in mind, you have to like, sort of parse out players versus fan base as well.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, yeah.

[Andrew]

Basketball players are definitely going to be like the most sort of. They're a labor focused group. You know what I mean? They're going to have like, in my mind, the best politics. Right. Of any playing group. The NBA.

[Luke Burbank]

Absolutely. Well, they got to be honest about it.

[Andrew]

And then baseball, I think the fan base is going to lean way more towards you and I and. But the players in baseball, you're going to get a much more mixed bag.

[Luke Burbank]

You got to call it what it is.

[Andrew]

You got. I mean, they're going to be a lot. A lot of concern. Yeah, exactly. The white guys. Yes, specifically the white guys.

[Luke Burbank]

White guys.

[Andrew]

Although not. Not Gossman, who was pitching for Toronto. I'm saying his name wrong, aren't I? The look on your face. Is it Gosman? No. Somebody was tweeting out what wonderful politics that Gosman has.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I love to hear that.

[Andrew]

Hear that?

[Luke Burbank]

Yep. But generally speaking, white sports guys. Guys. It gets real tough real fast on their personal politics. And baseball's full of white sports guys, and a significant number of them have bad politics.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's. It's. Let's just say it's against my religion to root for Clayton Kershaw. Let's just put it that way.

[Luke Burbank]

And you don't have to go far in the world of the NFL to find white sports guys with bad politics. It's just, it's rough. It's rough out there. But I do think that that's different than the fan bases. And, and also, who can know these things? But if there's anyone who's willing to guess at it, it's me. Andrew.

[Andrew]

Yes. Thank you for your service.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay. I would like to welcome back to tbtl. Well, let me just play this real quick.

[Andrew]

Hello and welcome to Top Story.

[Luke Burbank]

I'd like to welcome back our listeners in the greater Michigan area who may have had a difficult time spending last week with us, which I completely understand.

[Andrew]

Although wouldn't today maybe be the day that they're having the most difficulty spending it with us? Because now it's possibly. We love you guys.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, we absolutely love you. I mean, I'll welcome him back tomorrow, too. I guess. One more day to kind of. It's weird how this goes because of course, for us, for us, the big Mariners supporters, it's kind of like Friday feels like a lifetime ago because we also had this thing that happened on Sunday. Whereas if you're right, if I were a Tigers fan, Friday would still feel pretty, pretty painful and pretty recent to me. Just talk, if we can, a bit about how Friday night went for both of us. How did it go for you, Sir?

[Andrew]

Well, I TiVoed the game, so I will be finding out this afternoon what happened.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm taping that.

[Andrew]

But what a lame, obvious joke for.

[Luke Burbank]

People who have, by the way, for people who are listening to this down the road or don't care about sports or have lost the thread. Friday night was for the Mariners and Tigers the game to end all games for this season. The winner was going to get to keep playing and the loser was going to be done for the season. And it was something that was real high stress for everybody involved.

[Andrew]

Yes, very much so. And it was just. Yeah, I guess, I don't know. You said it. Well, I don't have to go into more detail. And so the Mariners had lost the previous game in the series, and that hurt more than I thought it was going to. I never had the expectation that the Mariners were going to advance. I knew it was a possibility. I'm not trying to be a negative Nelly here. And again, apologies to all of our listeners named Nelly, but I just.

[Luke Burbank]

Or our listener's name Negative.

[Andrew]

No, we have one listener named Negative. And you know what you did?

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, with a Name like that, honestly, did they have a chance?

[Andrew]

Honestly, Very cheery individual. I hope someday they'll donate.

[Luke Burbank]

It's like nicknaming a really big guy Tiny.

[Andrew]

Exactly when they start calling me Stretch. All right.

[Luke Burbank]

Friday night.

[Andrew]

Friday night I had not expecting the.

[Luke Burbank]

Mariners to win, but it hurt more than you thought when they lost on Thursday.

[Andrew]

On Thursday when I talked to you, I was in a very, or I guess on Friday when I talked to you, I was in a very low place. The Mariners had lost on Thursday and that had hurt more than I expected it to. Maybe because of the manner in which they lost or maybe because I had dared to start hoping. I don't know what it was. I thought I was very prepared, not sanguine. Nobody described my behavior last week who listened to the show as sanguine, but I didn't have some expectation like, oh, so this is ours to lose. Certainly. And given the what looked like a pretty huge momentum shift in Thursday days loss to the Tigers, I was very pessimistic as far as the outcome Wednesday days. Oh, we had a day off on Thursday, you're right. And so on Friday my plan was to just stay home. And I told you this, I was like, I was in such a bad place on Wednesday after that game and all of Thursday that I was like, I'm just going to stay home and watch game five by myself. If we win, it'll be a bonus. But I'm totally prepared for the loss and it's going to hurt and I'm just going to like try to just move on, play some darts, listen to some comedy, bang, bang, whatever. Like I could just really see how my Friday night was going to go.

[Luke Burbank]

But dark night for the soul.

[Andrew]

Something sort of started to change. And I don't know if it was during the show or after the show that I started to think, well, maybe I can could go out. Like I did watch a previous Mariners game in this series that was a huge victory for us. And I watched that at the Eagles with some friends at our Eagles club. And you know, so that didn't make me feel like the Eagles was a cursed place to watch the game, you know, which it sort of had in the past. I'd watched a lot of losing games there for various sports, but I was like, you know what? As Friday morning turned into Friday afternoon, I started to get more and more, let's say Eagles curious. And so I'm like, you know what? And also I've been enjoying this weather so much. I'm like, what I could do is just walk to the Eagles. The game started at 5. If I leave here at like even 3:30 or 4 or something, just sort of kind of meander, take my camera, walk towards the Eagles, maybe that'll kind of put me in a good headspace and then I can watch the game and then at any moment I can pull myself out of this game. That I was like thinking about it sort of as very much in the baseball analogy that we've been talking about, which is in playoff baseball, you don't let your starter stay out there too long. It's a very short leash. As they say. The second you start to see any trouble in a situation like post, you know, postseason baseball, you're just like, okay, I'm out of here. And I'm just like, if I go to the Eagles and the vibes aren't right, at any moment I can just always go back to listening on the radio or walk home or do whatever. And so then I go to the Eagles and I'm really glad I did. And the, you know, bunch of, you know, I was there first. I was there very early and I put this. Other people are sitting at these low top tables around like kind of looking at TVs. I pulled a stool up right below the big screen TV where I had sat the previous game and was just like, let's go. I had myself a bag of. I was a little parched from my walk, so I stopped for some Gatorade at a 7:11 and then I got myself some Bugles and some pretzels as well. So I'm sitting there watching the game, eating my Bugles little by little. My friends are sort of like kind of trickling in as the game sort of continues. And I will say the bar is very into it. I'm very glad that I picked the right place to watch it. They have the volume up. Everybody is like really dialed in. People are even saying, hey, turn the volume up more. You know, like, it wasn't like any kind of clash of interest.

[Luke Burbank]

They're like Jay Z for every song.

[Andrew]

Turn the head, turn, turn the game up in my headphones. The reason I have to say this, the Eagles is not a sports bar. And there are people there who don't care about sports, including one bartender who actually actively dislikes sports. And so you just sort of never know what you're going to be getting into. But I was like, psyched. Like people were dialed into the game, as was I. But of course, it was a. Just a nail biter of a game. And as you mentioned went 15 innings and I'm getting pretty, I'm getting pretty anxious. I'm getting a little bit high. I'm getting a little strident about some of the decisions that some of the players and manager are making during this game. Although in hindsight, the manager did an amazing job. We got to give him credit at least for that, for that Friday night win. But I definitely was, I was definitely airing some grumpy opinions about what I was seeing on the, on the screen. And I have a feeling I was probably becoming slightly insufferable, which is, is that's on me. But then, and I don't want to go into detail here, but there was just, I started to get a little bit of the whiff in the friend group of like, as we say on this show, a shorthand relating back to an experience you had during a painful super bowl loss. And somebody said, why is everybody so sad? I just got, I started to get this little bit of whiff of like, you know, from, from folks who had shown up maybe halfway through the game. Why is Andy so sad? And like, I'm not saying they said that or it reached that level, but short leash. I was just like, I'm out.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Andrew]

These aren't my people. This is like, I love these people, but these aren't my baseball watching people right now. They were, but they're not now. And I just immediately, I still had the game on in my headphones, in my Bluetooth headphones that were sitting in front of me from my walk like three hours earlier. I just had forgotten to turn it off. And I just started to get a little, I just got that little whiff of just kind of like, oh, Andy's sad. And I like, was like, I put on my headphones. I didn't say anything to anybody. I put on my headphones, I put on my hoodie and I just went back outside in the 12th inning after Randy or Rosarena double play in an infuriating way. And I think I was screaming at the TV before, I was like, don't swing, don't swing. It didn't matter what the pitch was like, just don't swing. And then he swung into a double play and I was just like, I felt indignant. And then I was like, why is Andy. And then I was like, like, okay, headphones on, sweater on. And it was a lovely night. It was such a weird way. I see all these videos of people like celebrating and high fiving and hugging and just going crazy in various watch parties. Mine was way More subdued because I left the Eagles in the 12th inning. I put on my headphones and there was probably like, what, maybe 30 more minutes of gameplay, as it turns out. But it's like beautiful, crisp autumn evening. I'm walking around the Maple Leaf neighborhood. I'm looking at the game being played on huge TVs through people. People's windows. I would stop every now and then and then when we eventually won. And so I listened to the last three innings, including the big win, and I was expecting to hear maybe more celebration the neighborhood. But I was in a very quiet residential neighborhood and I just started screaming and clapping my hands like any. I'm sure people locked their doors. They're like, we got another one. Usually they stay on Lake City Way, but we got another one is probably what people heard as I was just like yelling and clapping my hands. I got these big meaty hands that make a loud clapping sound. And I did that. And then I just walked back to the Eagles and just embraced a very drunk Camaro, Kev, who just wanted to hug everybody in sight. It's like somebody had broken his potion of. What is it? His bottle of Love potion number nine. Are you familiar with that oldie?

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I see.

[Andrew]

Anyway, so I didn't get the in person celebration during the winning moment, but it just sort of felt like, you know, part of me is sort of bummed that I wasn't there with other people, but I also know that, like, I had to leave at that moment and that's just the way it played out. And that will forever be my memory of Game five.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm jealous that you got to hug our crew of friends and be in the. I mean, not in the moment of like Polanco getting his single, but in just like, you know, the somewhat short aftermath because I. I watched it totally by myself, which was kind of just how it worked out. So my parents had been here, but they were going down to visit with my sister and her family. And so. Oh, that's actually not true. They had a social event and then after their social, they couldn't get out of much time.

[Andrew]

You mentioned that on Friday. Yeah, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

They had a social event they couldn't get out of, and then they were going on to my sister's and in fact, my mom did like, my mom and dad did stick around for like half of the game to. So it's like I could see something shaping up, which was like my dad, who, he's intrigued by these games, but he doesn't live and die by it. And My mom, who does live and die by it, and my dad kind of being like. He'd sort of packed up the entire car. Yeah.

[Andrew]

He's like.

[Luke Burbank]

He's sort of got. You know, he's cinching up his bolo tie, literally.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And my mom is just kind of like. Kind of, like, pacing with me and, you know, whatever. But anyway, so I watched about half the game with them, but then they left. And then it was just me and my emotions and this baseball game, and I didn't even realize how unhinged I was becoming until, like, something important would happen. Like, you know, a hit for the Mariners that we needed, or, like, a strikeout that we needed. And, like, let's just say, you know, it was. There was traffic for the other team, and then we get out of, like, a jam, our pitcher comes in and throws, you know, gets a strike out or a double play. And the sound that I would make, it would come from such a deep place, such. And, like, that it surprised me. And then I was kind of going around my house, kind of like closing a couple windows and being like, I have neighbors. You've been to my house. They're not, like, right up against me. It's not like I live in Seattle, in a neighborhood in Seattle, but it's like if someone was screaming at the top of their lungs in my house, it's conceivable that my neighbors could hear it. And it would be like I was. I had sounds coming out of me. But then it would. Then I'd be totally silent. Like, it'd be like this. It'd be like me watching. I started off watching on my couch, and then, of course, by an inning or two in. I'm pacing behind my couch. And then, like, never to return to the couch. Just, like, walking behind the couch. Walking behind the couch. And then just like. But in total silence, just kind of wringing my hands. Not even. It's weird, not even saying anything out loud. Like, you might have been at the Eagles, where I'm just kind of like, okay, you can do this, you know, or don't do this, or, like, watch for this, or, you know, that kind of stuff that we do sometimes. Trying to coach the team up by. Through the tv, through the portal of the television. I was somehow totally silent. Like, all of that was inside my own head, right? And. And I was just pacing back and forth, back and forth. Sometimes I would, like, nervously look at TikTok to try to distract myself from how stressed I was about the game. And then something would happen that would just be like a critical moment where we, we did something and I would just like explode. And then I go back to being totally silent. And then something else happened by probably the maybe 10th or 11th inning, which was I opened up the sliding glass door and I started standing outside and watching the TV from outside.

[Andrew]

I do this sometimes. I walk really far away from the TV and watch from around a corner.

[Luke Burbank]

Like, I couldn't, I was at this, I was, I couldn't hear. I didn't want to hear the announcers anymore. Not because I even was particularly mad at them, but, but like it was like the television was showing me something that was creating such an intense experience for me that I couldn't be so close to it. I was outside in the rain on my deck, peering around the side of my house, in through the sliding glass door, around a support pillar at the tv and mostly getting a sense of what was happening by what the base runners were doing.

[Andrew]

And I just wanna throw this out here for listeners who didn't watch or kind of don't understand the pacing on this. If you're talking about doing in like the 11th inning or so. You've been watching this game intensely, intensely for about four and a half, four and a quarter hours at this point. And you never know when it's going to end because there's not a clock. And so anyway, just to, as we describe ourselves as going, you know, mentally unwell here, like it is, we were mentally unwell because we'd been watching, watching not. And I was sort of thinking about this later where I was kind of like, again, not trying to get too much in my head, but like, I was a little bit bummed that apparently my negativity was too much for the crew. But also I was thinking, like, I started doing the math. Like we watched what, 15 or 1600 innings over the course of a season.

[Luke Burbank]

162 games plus the playoff, plus nine.

[Andrew]

And then how many. You know, I think, I think the math is actually would be 1500 if they were all, all you know, nine inning games, which they weren't. But I'm just like sort of doing the math in my head. Like, I'm not saying I sat down and watched every single game this season. There were a few I missed and there were some plenty that I listened to on the radio or you catch as catch can. But like, this is a journey that didn't start at like 8pm for me. This is a journey that started in March. And like, and then this game is going on. It Ended up going on just shy.

[Luke Burbank]

Of five hours and for the last, you know, I would say effectively starting with the 8th inning every. I mean this is, this is the thing that we talked about this last week. There's something that is fundamentally different about watching a stressful baseball game versus watching a stressful football or basketball game, which is that in football and basketball there are these. There are. There's a decent middle section of the game where you're really. It's intense, but it's not. Every single play isn't Maker Break. Every single play is not an 80 yard touchdown throw that will either score the touchdown and win or the ball will be dropped and you lose. And something about baseball, particularly when it's the Mariners who keep the scoring pretty low in a lot of these games where it's. And particularly in like an elimination game against Detroit, like we were playing or even last night against, against the Blue Jays. There's something about watching a baseball game in the playoffs where, where every single pitch could just be the game. Every single pitch. Your guy could throw a pitch that their guy hits a home run on or a base hit on with people on. And that's the game. Because you never are able to come back and score more runs than they just scored or vice versa. You could win the game. It's. There is just something unique about the way baseball functions as a sport that just turns it into an absolute pressure cooker. If you are someone who has, like you said, Andrew has been really caring about this since March and that's hard to. Everybody should get to enjoy this however they want to and they should all have the level of engagement that they choose to. And nothing about our kind of like insane focus on it should be seen as our saying that you should. Everyone else should enjoy it or everybody else should experience it at this level of obsession. But it is like one of those things again, particularly in an elimination game, like we were just playing. That's like. It was so intense for me me that I couldn't physically be inside my house close to the television. And then once like they got into the extra innings again, the way that I was tracking it and this actually helped me because we had the Mariners on Friday night, had a bunch of chances to just win the game and just managed. The bottom just fell out. And like in a way that when you talk about dark magic, Andrew, when you were talking about the Mariners being cursed, I could have seen a world in which you had totally decided on Friday night that the curse was back, baby. Because we had there were just. There was multiple. I mean, there was two innings where I think we might have had the bases loaded with either zero. Well, zero outs or one out, where it was like, we got into some moments where it was almost impossible to conceive of a way in which the Mariners would not have just won the game. And we managed to not win the game. And when that happens, you start to really think. And I would. While this was happening, I was just standing outside in the rain on my deck, just kind of staring. Essentially, what happened was I went into this almost sort of, like, trance state where, like. Like. I don't know. I wasn't listening to the announcers. I wasn't seeing specifically where each hit went. I was just watching the guys on base, and I was watching how the base runners reacted all the way up to the one that Polanco got. When we finally won the game, the way that I knew we won the game was the reaction of the first baseman for the Tigers and the reaction of the right fielder, because that's the.

[Andrew]

Right fielder who just, like. I thought it was a very interesting way for the whole thing to end for them. He just, like, doesn't even. Even. He doesn't even pick up the ball. He's just like, that's the game. It was. There was something very emotional about that. I felt bad for him in the mo. Not in the moment, but later on.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. I, I. You know, I. What. I guess here's what I'm saying. For me, it eventually turned into. I just had to watch it as pattern recognition. Like, I couldn't watch it as, like, did that. Was that a strike or a ball? And did the umpire get the call? Right? Because that's also something that's been really making me insane, is every time there's a missed pitch, pitch that I think hurts the Mariners, in other words, the umpire thinks something is a strike that was a ball or vice versa. It sends me into a whole spiral. I was eventually. By the end of this game, the only way I could function in watching it was to just watch the larger pattern of the players on the field. And what did they do, and what do I think that means? It's like, I didn't. I couldn't handle the specifics of the game, and I knew when Polanco was up there and when he hit the ball, and I saw that the first baseman hadn't grabbed it, and I saw that the right fielder was not fielding it, I knew that meant we had won. I needed the generalities and not the specifics.

[Andrew]

Because association almost.

[Luke Burbank]

That's kind of. I think I was. I think I was kind of disassociating, which is thrown around a lot on TikTok. I think I might have been slightly disassociating. Like, I can't handle the specifics of this right now. I have to just deal with the generalities.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's a little bit. I think it's a little bit like the instinct to cover your face with your hands when you're watching a scary movie that you voluntarily put on or went to the theater. I know, and I'm being quite serious. Like, I wanted to see that movie Friendship, but I watched a lot of the movie Friendship through the cracks of my fingers because it was so cringy. Not scary, but cringy. That. I don't know, like, it doesn't. It's such a dumb thing to do that we instinctively do. It doesn't protect me in any way. Me covering my face with my hands when I'm watching a cringe. Comedy doesn't do anything thing, but I'm doing it. Like, I'm not going to.

[Luke Burbank]

Somehow feels like you're slightly protecting yourself. I guess. Here's what it is. I needed a layer of something. And in this, it was just, I guess, geography. I needed a layer of something between what was happening on the field and what was. And what was happening for me as a fan of the team or a watcher of the game. Because to be right up against the TV and to be experiencing it all kind of in real time time, it was too intense for me. I couldn't. I needed a gauzy layer to somehow blunt the effect, both good and bad. Because, by the way, when he got that hit, I just stood there. I didn't run around screaming. I stood there, like, frozen. This is making it sound like I'm. I'm not handling this well. I. Believe me, I was very happy on Friday night, but it was just like I was in disbelief, you know, at that more than anything. And just like all of a sudden I was just. Just like this weight left me, but it was weird. And also because I was by myself, I did. My. My response wasn't to go into crazy whooping or anything. It was to just. It was just like. I almost, like. I almost, like, needed to just, like, sit down and just, like, not cry. But I think I would say I. I understood people who were emotional and I saw lots of clips of that online, you know, about the outcome, Mariners fans. Because it had, of course, been so, so long for Us.

[Andrew]

There was a moment in yesterday's game skipping ahead a little bit here. I told you this via text at one point and just so you know, I wasn't just trying to make you laugh. It was a real thing that happened to me. I can't remember what had happened. I think the game, I think we're losing the game the whole time. And then it might have been when Cal Rally tied it up or it might have even been something. Maybe the game was already tied and it might have been something even less heroic than that. But things started trending in the right direction and I'm here at home all by myself. Genevieve's back at the Eagles watching the game with our group of friends. And I was just like on Sunday night I was like, I can watch this one more chill. I wasn't expecting a win. It's a seven game series or something about all the tension building up for game. Going into this game that on a Sunday night, I was like, I'll come back from pop up, I'll clean up my stuff. I'll like, I just could put her a little bit and just enjoy the game without as many pins and needles. Not expecting a win. Given everything that we know about them going into the series, I just like, okay, I'll just relax on this one. But then as it starts looking kind of good. There was a period of time where I don't know when I started saying it because I didn't realize until I'd been saying it for a long time. I was just going, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And then at some point I'm just kind of like, how long have I been saying yes, sir? I don't know when, when this started. I've just been saying it. And it's funny how you just leave your body at times you do.

[Luke Burbank]

You become. And particularly when there's no one else around. Like I watched that game by myself also yesterday.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Turns out this might be a pattern for me. And so like I think, I think that the craziness, like I was, I was overly intense probably, but I wasn't in. I wasn't unhinged when I was watching the game with David and Alicia and Gemma. And I was probably not as unhinged when I was watching the first half of Friday night's game with my parents. There's something about being a person in your home environment with no supervision and a baseball game on, a playoff baseball game on that if you're a certain kind of person like you or I, Andrew it really brings out the crazy.

[Andrew]

Yes, yes, exactly. So today the game is on. And actually just a couple of hours here as we record this.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, we've got a hard out in two hours.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So we should.

[Luke Burbank]

You're welcome.

[Andrew]

Listen, so I only have 18 more stories. No, so. And it's a day game, and I actually have a lot of work to do today, so I need to, like, kind of, like, kind of keep it together. But then the next game in the series will be on Wednesday here, and I'm kind of looking forward to that because that's going to be a little bit different. I'm going to watch that game at a sports bar with two of my buddies who are actually. Both of these guys know baseball way better than me, but are also not kind of insane. No, they're Mariners fans. One of them is a big Mariners fan. The other one is more of a. Is he roots for the Mariners now, but he's from Atlanta, so he's a Braves fan. But lifelong baseball fans who know a lot about baseball, and I feel like that's going to be good for me. This is going to sound so beta, but, like, I like watching sports around people who know a lot more about the sport than I do, and that's not hard to find those people depending on the sport. But I love that. But also, they're very calm presences, and I do feel that, like, I am in the minority. There are so many people I know who truly, truly love baseball and are just a million times more mature about it than I am. You know, like, people who just say, we'll watch every pitch of the postseason, even if they don't have a team in it. Whereas, like, sometimes if I got really burned by a team, like, there's postseasons where I feel so upset about not being in it that I don't pay attention to the postseason, which isn't good. And anyway, these guys I'm going to be watching with, they don't even know each other, but I think we're all going to meet up to watch it at an actual. First of all, at a sports bar that is there to do one thing, which is play sports and serve drinks and food. I guess that's three things, I guess. And you can sit there. So stools and chairs is four things. Four. Four. Roof over the head. Five. We could go on how much time before the game starts anyway?

[Luke Burbank]

But these really, like, an hour 50.

[Andrew]

These two buddies that I have who I know from different parts of my life, both have that sort of calming, hardcore long time baseball presence that I'm going to kind and also just are able to kind of have a bit more like both maturity and knowledge about it. So I'm really looking forward to like watching that game because today's game I don't have any expectations for. I feel like we got to lose one in Toronto at some point. Right? Well, that's the attitude. That's the attitude I'm going to take on today so I don't drive myself bananas. And then on Wednesday I'm going to start getting pretty itchy again, I think. So I'm sort of looking, I'm looking forward to that sort of change of scenery.

[Luke Burbank]

I am. I'll be watching the game here again alone, alone again today. But then, and then Wednesday night I don't know what I'm going to be doing likely here watching it. But then Thursday I will be working. I will be hosting Live Watch and that's a kind of a, that'll be a tough one because there's just, there's just no getting around it. And I also, I don't know if so would livewire starts at 7:30. Hey, by the way, if you're not a baseball person and you'd like to hang out Thursday night, Alberta Rose Theater, it's going to be real fun, Livewire. But that's going to be one of those ones where I don't think I can, I don't think it's realistic for me to try to not know what happened because, because by the way, the game starts at five so there will actually be like two hours. Now. I shouldn't be watching the game or monitoring. I should, I should be assiduously preparing for my job hosting this radio show. But also it's like I could conceivably know a lot about the game when I'm walking on stage at 7:30. So what do I want my approach to be? Do I then try to go into a media blackout? Also part of the problem from a structural or from a functional standpoint is the way that I communicate with our producers during the show is actually via text message.

[Andrew]

You need to mute the whole. I mean I don't think it's a good idea to try to do a media blackout. But, but if you're trying to do the show and mute criminals, you gotta.

[Luke Burbank]

But I have to mute more than the criminals. Here's the thing. I have to mute everybody on my text chain. I mean every, you can't mute a Brian Babylon from. Wait, wait. You know what I mean? Like people are Just coming out of the woodwork of my life to be like, did you see that?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And it's like I did. It's like nothing. There's nothing in my text. There's no one in my contacts who I am safe from telling me something about this because they understand that it's such a big deal to me.

[Andrew]

And.

[Luke Burbank]

And it's kind of almost become a national story, at least to some degree.

[Andrew]

It's a national story. Absolutely. But like, what about yammer? What about yammer? Luke?

[Luke Burbank]

Just get yourself thinking about getting on Yammer or what's the other one?

[Andrew]

Well, it's delicious yammer and something else.

[Luke Burbank]

I'll delicious a few yammers with the producers.

[Andrew]

That's a delicious yammer.

[Luke Burbank]

I basically think I'm going to just under. I'm just going to end up experiencing, I guess. I mean I'm just going to kind of. I don't know how going to. Mostly I'm. Here's my concern about Thursday night is really more that just like the, the reality of the game is intruding into my mental space when I don't want it to.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You know what I mean? Like, in other words, it's, it's. I do want them to win, of course, but it's like, it's more like I'm interviewing someone and then I'm just getting a notification, a Seattle Times push notification that we won or we lost. And now I've got those feelings competing with this interview I'm doing and I don't want to have those feelings in the. That moment.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. Are you glad it's not a Seattle show though? You'd be really competing for people's attention. I think if it was up here, you're starting to really notice like Seahawk during a regular Sunday. You know, I do the same drive every Sunday and I notice if the Seahawks game is still on when I do that drive. The streets around here are dead.

[Luke Burbank]

Like people are just driving to your pop up.

[Andrew]

When I drive to pop up on a Sunday, if it's like a one o' clock game and I'm driving there at two o', clock, like middle of the game or whatever, I can take a left turn out of. Out of my neighborhood, no problem. Which is usually a big problem. And lately I've been noticing that effect on the traffic and Uber prices by the way around baseball games now too.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, interesting.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Cause I almost went. I was all prepared to watch the game last night here at home alone. I had a whole plan for it, but Then my buddy did say he was at a bar in Ballard where he's been watching the games. And he said, like, we had no plans. We hadn't talked about it at all. But he said it was like, 20, maybe a half hour before yesterday's game. He. He just said, I'm saving a stool for you here, if you want to come. And I was so torn, Luke. Cause I was just pulling into my driveway after pop up, and I had my whole evening plan set. And, like, I just knew what. But then there was just something about it. He'd been telling me this bar is a good place to watch it. He'd been watching games there. And he literally said, this place is crowded, but I got a stool with your name on it. And I was so tempted. But then the thing that did sort of break, there were a bunch of things that made it not make a lot of sense. And then I saw, like, an Uber was, like, over $30 to go to Ballard. And again, I would spend that if it really important. But it was finally, I was kind of like, that doesn't work out for me right now for a lot of different reasons. But also, I think this is surge pricing based on people trying to get to a place to watch this baseball game.

[Luke Burbank]

Very possibly, yeah. I. I'll tell you, I. I. Yesterday was an absolute gift for us, not just as a fan base, but also, like, from a blood pressure standpoint. I know that's been a hot topic on the show lately. Like, I. It was so, so weird to go into yesterday's game feeling so differently about it. Just like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if. Wouldn't it be cool if I could remember my dingus password? Like, wouldn't it be cool if they did something here that's very unexpected, but also, like, being completely at peace with the idea that, like, it was unlikely and that that didn't mean that the sky was falling. Like, again, to return to our eternal question, is this fun? Yesterday was fun. I mean, it was fun because they were victorious, but it was also fun because I. I didn't have to stand on my deck watching it through the sliding glass.

[Andrew]

Right?

[Luke Burbank]

Like, right. I was like, okay, there is a version of this. And, you know, again, I say all of this with peace and love to our fans in Canada, who would be very sad by this. But, like, I wouldn't be shocked. I would not be shocked for the Mariners to win today. I just think there's a. This is. It's such a momentum sport. It's such a mojo game. And there's something about not feeling a bunch of pressure. So in getting so lucky yesterday, I think that the Mariners, you know, they didn't have a lot of pressure. They won today. There's no pressure today. The pressure is absolutely on Toronto. It's a fluky, streaky game, and I could see the Mariners playing really well. It's like, I would love. I would love, love, love, and I think we deserve it as Mariners fans, for the Mariners to play some postseason baseball that does not feel absolutely, devastatingly, crushingly pressure filled. And they had that yesterday. I'm feeling that today. I would like us to. It would be amazing if we won today, because what it would really mean is then I've got, like, two to three more games of getting to watch with, like, what people might say, a mentally balanced approach.

[Andrew]

Maybe.

[Luke Burbank]

You don't think.

[Andrew]

I don't think.

[Luke Burbank]

If they win today, you don't think that that means you'll feel very chill about the next two games? Games?

[Andrew]

No. If I'm understanding your correction, if the Mariners win.

[Luke Burbank]

If the Mariners.

[Andrew]

No. I am going to be, really. Because what my brain will start doing will start constructing how painful it will be to lose the series if we were up by two.

[Luke Burbank]

So in other words, us, actually. Which would be considered miraculous if we went up by two for you, that would actually be worse than us not losing.

[Andrew]

I don't want to be on the record as saying. Saying that it'll be worse if the Seattle Mariners lose today's baseball game. That's not what I'm saying. As regarding my mental health.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay.

[Andrew]

I don't.

[Luke Burbank]

There's no helping you.

[Andrew]

I don't. Yes. Yes. Okay, good. We've got. No, I do think that what happens later in the week is going. I think, Wednesday. That's why I'm sort of already talking about Wednesday's game, because I think almost no matter what happens Wednesday, I'm going to be kind of out of my mind, even if we're up by two, because I'll be worried about Luke. It's like I've been trying to describe this. I'm not doing a good, good job of it, and I will admit that. But, like, I'm. What I'm worried about is the narrative where we lost in a devastating way. Sort of like, I can't explain where I am mentally on this, but what I'm trying to maintain is joy. I'm trying. I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm trying to maintain the joy of this season. And even. Even on that. That bad loss that we had, you know, to the Tigers. And I was just trying to remember where we were. That was, that was in Detroit. Right. But anyway, that bad loss in Detroit, you know, that really hurt. But I took that long walk and I think I'll always remember how I felt, you know what I mean? And even like me kind of battling, ridiculously battling people just in my head online that didn't ask for a fight, you know, And I'm glad that I didn't get in any petty, dumb, passive aggressive fights on Blue Sky. But anyway, just I remember where I was. But right now I can still envelope envelop that into generally a postseason of joy, a fall like I've never had before. I've literally never gotten to enjoy this much Mariners baseball in this manner before. And I think that there is a good chance that we don't make it to the World Series. It's just a chance we don't make it to the World Series. I never expected, I told you at the beginning of the season that at some point I'd given up thinking the Mariners will ever make it to the World Series. I don't know if you recall that conversation. And I said to you, I'm just sort of trying to enjoy it, just knowing that my team will never have any great level of success, but I still enjoy baseball. Like, I had just given up on it and I was telling people that, well, we'll never see it. Now people are saying, hey, guess what? The Mariners are three games away from being in the World Series. And I don't even know what those words mean. I can't even. So my point is I don't have expectations like we deserve to win it all or that we will win it all at all. But I'm really scared of some sort of narrative that turns it into, boy, they really owned us in a specifically torturous way. And that's why I think the back end of this week, no matter where games up, I'm scared of that narrative.

[Luke Burbank]

The better.

[Andrew]

You don't.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, you obviously care if they lose the series, but more than caring that they lose the series, you don't want it to be in a way that is emotionally gutting to you so that it's extra hard to recover from.

[Andrew]

And that Jays fans will always have that over us in a certain way.

[Luke Burbank]

Which is the irony is that we. And it didn't end up, you know, neither, I don't think either.

[Andrew]

Us.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, we. I know we didn't go to the World Series, but like, ironically we kind of are that to the Blue Jays right now in that we went up there in a wild card series a few years ago and won two games, including the largest comeback by a road team in the history of Major League Baseball engineered in some played by postseason.

[Andrew]

Major League Baseball postseason.

[Luke Burbank]

Cal Raleigh, who is still bedeviling them. And like so, so I hear what you're saying. You, if we, if the Mariners, like if the Mariners go up three zero, your anxiety raises. Goes up. Because that means that for them to then not win the series would be considered such a titanic collapse that that would be harder for you to process.

[Andrew]

That would be hard. But then of course I'll also be on pins and needles if we're down to. Or you know what, whatever the math is. I just think that said, it's just a time you don't want to.

[Luke Burbank]

Russell, I keep saying this. You don't want a Russell Wilson throwing the interception in the super bowl moment.

[Andrew]

Yes, exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

Where there's or you know, peace and love to our Phillies fans. But the way that that season ended with that throw home a complete, like we keep using this term sort of, I think slightly incorrectly, but basically like an act of God, a force majeure, some sort of insane never before seen collapse or quirk that that will be, you know, some kind of laces out moment that will be replayed for years and years to come. Again, peace and love to our Boston fans. But you know, the ball going through Bill Buckner's legs, we just don't want it to be like that. We don't want to be part of some kind of quote unquote curse.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

And if we, if we're doing well, then that means if we were to then somehow not prevail, it would be. Now here's another thing that's giving me some, some hope and some and by the way, I really realize this. I used the word sanguinity the other day on the show. That's a word.

[Andrew]

Oh, nice.

[Luke Burbank]

Proud of myself. I thought I invented it, but okay, I'll share it with Webster's. Something that's giving me some sanguinity is whereas historically for the Seattle Mariners, if anything is ever kind of working out, like maybe we're getting to the playoffs, it feels like, well, this is our shot. If we don't do it this year, then it's back to, you know, sort of the basement of the American League West. I predicted it at some point late in the season. I think we're going to be a team to be reckoned with. For a while to come. We have a really good young pitching staff. We have hitters who can generally hit like, I don't know who you think going into next season. I mean, who, who, who in the west is. Looks better on paper than the Seattle Mariners. And the reason that gives me some sanguinity is because if we don't make it to the World Series this year, I have a strong reason to believe we could make it to the World Series next year. I think we're entering a phase. These things are kind of sick. I think we're entering a phase where we're going to be in the conversation and in contention and in the postseason for the next few seasons. And that's a really cool thing. Whereas when we were missing it by one game and before we had, you know, before we had a Josh Naylor, I know we don't have him resigned, but just like Julio Rodriguez emerging as actually a very good player, the player we hoped he would be, that he kind of didn't seem like. And really our pitching staff just having a bunch of really good young arms and like, I don't feel like this is our. Our window is not only this season. And so that makes me feel like if we play the Jays tough and we just don't end up getting to the World Series or we get to the World Series and don't win, I don't think it's 24 more years before we get back. I think we're in. I think we're in a window of time where we're going to be formidable. And that helps me a lot. Just emotionally and mentally.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that does help. And you're right, I will try to adopt that as well.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I'm not telling you how. No, no, no, no, that's not.

[Andrew]

That is smart because for me it's just been the Mariners even, you know, making to the playoffs in 2022 was really, really special. But unfortunately, my memory of that, though, is too. That's. Maybe that's what I'm sort of getting at here. 2022 was like two really painful losses in that, you know, in that series against Houston, like two game. And so what do you remember? You remember the 18 inning loss which was just like such a. Just a. Just a. Letting the air out of the balloon.

[Luke Burbank]

So slowly coming on the heels of the US Surrendering like a. Whatever it was.

[Andrew]

Yeah, seven run.

[Luke Burbank]

It was almost the record. Maybe it was a six run lead.

[Andrew]

Yeah, there was something like that. Yeah. And so. And so, yeah, it was just. Although that was. They Weren't a road team. Didn't that. Didn't they?

[Luke Burbank]

Right. No, no.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

It doesn't matter. But it. So that's kind of like the bad feeling. Yeah. So anyway, those. Those are bad feelings. And you're right then thinking, like, well, maybe we'll never make it here again because we, you know, we snuck in on the wild card, and then, you know, that Fluky come from behind win of our. That you mentioned before. And so this season has just played out very, very, very differently. And so I need to, no matter what happens, remember all of the good times. For real.

[Luke Burbank]

I think the thing to remember is we are good. Like, we have good hitters, and even when they're having a game, like, I was. It was sneaking into my mind last night, and in fact, I heard one of the announcers say this, and I was like, I can't disagree with you on this, even though it bums me out. Which was like. He said at one point, they kind of look like the old Mariners, like. Like, because we were having such a hard time getting runs, and we were going through, you know, this long stretches where we're not even, you know. And by the way, ironically, so were the Blue Jays, but they just had a 1, and we had a 0 at that point because of that one swing by George Springer. So, like. And then I thought to myself, so the announcer says, Cause the Mariners had. You know, it was probably the fifth inning or something, and the Mariners have generated, like, pretty much zero offense. And this was the thing that, for so long, being a fan of the Mariners, was our pitcher is dealing, the other team has got one run, but we've gotten zero runs. And you're just watching these guys that make a lot of money go up there and just look really bad. And he said that, and I was like, you know what? That was before we went into Houston and swept them. When we went into Houston and swept them, something shifted tectonically for this team. And we're not that team anymore. And we are a team that has good hitters, and we're a team that has a guy who looks remarkably like the cartoon character right trango to me. And, like, I. I just have to keep reminding myself, we're not the cursed Mariners. We're the good Mariners. And. And even if we have a couple of lousy innings, even if our relievers give up some runs, even if, you know, Gino Suarez is swinging and missing, we're not the cursed Mariners anymore. I just keep telling myself that that might be wrong, by the way. But I'm telling myself that and it seems to be working so far. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, you are right. Hopefully we have a long road ahead of us.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you think Dan Wilson's possible alcohol is part of it. You think that helps?

[Andrew]

Where are you on this? I wanted to say this earlier in the show because we only have like three people listening probably at this point, but I really loved Friday's show. I loved having your brother and your mom on the show. I thought those were two amazing segments. I'm not just saying that because it meant I had to talk less, which everybody has been asking for, honestly, but it was really, really great. But it was really interesting to hear that perspective of your brother serving and Welsh.

[Luke Burbank]

I know, Right.

[Andrew]

At Cafe Lago. That's, that's, that's the right name of it. Right. I get that place confused with other places. And him mentioning that Dan Wilson, the, the night before the big, big game on Friday had he said he had counted up to four Rainier tall boys along with a frise salad and a steak or something like that. Right?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, I believe that was on the menu. For who then Dan Wilson and his wife apparently stayed at the restaurant until after it was closed down. And this was, to me, the most beautiful moment of the whole story. Story of like all the other patrons and customers leaving so that Dan Wilson can kind of like let his hair down a little bit. Like he's not thinking, I'm being observed as the manager of this baseball team. He's just hanging out with his friends who work at this restaurant. And then he saunters out the door and turns around and says to them, we're going to get it done.

[Andrew]

And he was right.

[Luke Burbank]

I loved that moment. Very, very cool. I, by the way, I want to be careful. I, I say that with tongue in cheek, talking about, you know, Dan Wilson and, and, and what he's drinking versus what anybody else is drinking and whatever that means for anybody in their life. I want to be careful about that. But let me just say I thought it was funny that after we were talking, you know, to David about the fact that, that Dan Wilson was definitely enjoying his tall boys on Thursday night, the eve of the biggest game of his life as a manager. Here's the headline from Adam Jude today in the Seattle Times headline, Mariners defy odds to beat Blue Jays in game one of ALC LCS Opening line Toronto. Dan Wilson finished pouring a cold light beer to a tall to go cup, grabbed a plastic bag containing his carry out dinner and headed up to a ramp leading out of the visitor's clubhouse. Then later on in the piece, he says. Rarely has Wilson broken character during his first full season as Mariners manager. He's calm and he's consistent and he's generally not expressive with his emotions. With that cold Canadian beer in his left hand, Wilson let loose a little on Sunday night just before exiting the clubhouse. Quote that he said was awesome. I'm just saying, this is a man who was had a beer to go.

[Andrew]

Leaving the clubhouse, pouring it into a to go cup. I really like that as a person.

[Luke Burbank]

For whom alcohol has played a significant role in my adult life. More significant at certain times than others. Like the idea that he's clocking like you. We all know people like this. Some of us are people like this. It's like there are the people that are like, okay, we're getting on the team bus, we're going back to the hotel. We'll see what happens. Maybe we'll have some dinner. Then there's the guy that's like, okay, but also, where's the cold beer?

[Andrew]

I. You know, though, that sounds like the best beer I had in my life. I didn't get that. Like, yeah, that sounds like a good. Because there is. I hope it was labat blue. When you're up there in Canada, just.

[Luke Burbank]

Say, I mean, I'm a Molson man because I was once in one of their commercials, but any of them will do, in my opinion. I'm with you, and I want to be clear. I wish I wouldn't have even used that particular word because, like, I'm not here to speculate on Dan Wilson and alcohol. Let me just tell you this. Before we talked to David on Friday, it was news to me that Dan Wilson even ever enjoyed. Yeah. A few small beers. In the words of our favorite sensei, from one battle after another. Like, I didn't even know Dan Wilson was a few small beers guy. And now I really know he's a few small beers guy.

[Andrew]

He's a few.

[Luke Burbank]

And I frankly love it about him.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Because I don't see any evidence that it's impeding or impairing his ability to manage. It's not a. It's not. Doesn't strike me as an issue from, again, anything I've ever heard about the guy. But, like, there's something about the fact that he is a few small beers guy that kind of really endears him to me. Yeah.

[Andrew]

I mean, the problem for me is. And again, this is where I don't. I don't know. I don't even Want to talk about this? Because, you know, Genevieve has just been like kind of. I think I mentioned this on the show. She's kind of like telling me because I've been complaining about Dan Wilson all season and I think rightfully so in a lot of cases. And Genevieve has been like, oh, I guess you, I guess Dan Wilson still a bad manager, huh? Getting the team this far and everything. And I think I'd mentioned this too. I kept saying we're here despite Dan Wilson, not because of Dan Wilson. After Friday's game, I think that argument he did a really, really, really pinch.

[Luke Burbank]

Hit is kind of an all time yes.

[Andrew]

And I was really shocked when he went to Spires and that didn't work out for him. It put us in peril. But what he ended up doing was what I expected instead of Spires, which is he started putting our starters in there. That's why I was so shocked. I'm like, why are you even going to bullpen arms when you have starting arms in the bullpen? I was, I really thought we were gonna see Castillo out of the bullpen or Logan, not Spire. And then when Spire gives up the, basically the lead we had, you're like, oh my God, I saw, I was so mad at him. But apparently he was stirring Sterling as a manager the rest of the game. But the whole drinking thing, like, and again, I, you can't draw the connection between those. Like I really. These two little snapshots of an adult man enjoying some light beers. Like, it's just like, I'm not seriously going down that. But it is, it does sort of play into like yesterday, like on yesterday's game when he decides not to challenge something that sounded very challengeable. That could have. You think that was the residual few.

[Luke Burbank]

Small beers from the team flag.

[Andrew]

I don't know. It's my point being that like the idea is, hey, he's always cool, he's always calm, he's always collected. Is like, yeah, that's one thing, but it's also the narrative that he is so conflict averse and he doesn't ever like kind of get out there and stand up for his team very often. And he does miss things and he does have what I have, what I would sort of describe as a sort of lazy approach to managing it sometimes that like, I don't know. I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean you listen to more sports radio than I do, so maybe, maybe they've. That's a point that's been made and supported, you know, in terms of like, I just don't know. Pitch by pitch and decision by decision over the season. Like, if they have. And by the way, if you are one of the last three people listening, congratulations, You've now entered hell. I don't know if there's a war for managerial decisions. Like, you know what I mean? Like, is there a way to really, like, actually sort of statistically rank Dan Wilson's manager choices and if it adds to wins or detracts from wins, other than just the feeling we have based on. Based around a time when a guy came in and gave up a hit.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure about that. I do know that during games, I think, like, on the text chain, me and your brother, well, endorse, I guess we're pretty dialed into.

[Luke Burbank]

Sounds like anything to me where he.

[Andrew]

Was making just incredibly boneheaded decisions. And like. And you kind of keep saying that, like, well, he must be relying on certain numbers. But there are other managers out there that are actually. I mean, in fact, I mean, again, I know we beat them. So I'm sort of like, arguing against myself, I guess, or arguing against reaction, reality. But, like, the national media was talking about how Hinch is just such a better manager than Dan is now Hinch is no longer playing baseball this season, and we are. So take it for what it's worth.

[Luke Burbank]

But pulled Tarek Scubal out, which is now considered one of the worst managerial decisions that anybody's ever made.

[Andrew]

Exactly. But I do think that there are plenty of times you can point to it and you can just say, why are you doing this? And this was something that Service did a lot, too. But, like, being absolutely committed to always looking for, like, the certain lefty righty or lefty lefty matchups, depending on what side of the ball you're on. And just like, all these things that are sort of like. Well, that's like a very basic approach. But if you dig into the numbers more. This doesn't make sense. If you look at the history of these people. And also just like, I don't know, they're just like. I do think there were plenty of. And I don't have them in front of me now because I wasn't actually keeping a dossier on this. But I do think that there are the managers who's the. Oh, geez. One of the most famous managers in baseball down in the. With the Reds now used to be with Cleveland, you know, like, just well known for being a great Indian.

[Luke Burbank]

Terry Francona.

[Andrew]

Francona. Thank you, Tito. Just being a great in game manager and, you know, Again, Dan, but also.

[Luke Burbank]

I think fired from Boston because of how they did in the postseason years.

[Andrew]

But then proved himself after that. Like, and, and, you know, and whatever. And like, you really cannot argue the fact that the Mariners did not hire anybody with managerial experience. They hired a guy who had never managed a Major league baseball game to be their manager full time in the middle of a losing, not a losing season, but during the, during, you know, they, they fired him in mid season and then just signed him without trying out anybody else. Like, who hires anybody in that manner.

[Luke Burbank]

I just, I, I feel like the thing about that argument that I don't understand is what has Dan Wilson done? It's a long season and you know, it's a. The timeline is very long with these things. Dan, we missed. Did we. We missed the playoffs by one game last season. Right? Like, did. I'm not saying that. I'm not asking that sarcastically. I actually don't remember.

[Andrew]

I think that was one of them. There's been a bunch. I think it was the last.

[Luke Burbank]

There's been too many.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

I guess what I would say is like, if, if someone is asking, was it the right decision to hire Dan Wilson as the manager of the Seattle Mariners? I guess I would feel like I would point to the fact that we are leading 10 in the ALCS. Like, it just seems like you couldn't have more of a proof of concept than that. Right. Like, I guess maybe a different manager. We would, I don't know what, we would be up two games in the alcs. Like, we just sort of won more regularly regular season games, I guess.

[Andrew]

But I mean, this is a real question.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm not going to.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I know, but I mean, I just don't think that that's the argument. We could have not gone on a 10 game losing streak near the end of the season when we were on the road.

[Luke Burbank]

We could have not gone on a winning 17 out of 18.

[Andrew]

Right, exactly. And I'm not saying that like, and so it worked out the way it worked out, but it's not like, oh, the Mariners are good this year, therefore Dan Wilson is the reason. I don't think Dan Wilson is the reason. I think bringing. I think Polanco getting good is the reason. Yeah, I think bringing in, you know, two players at the deadline, although Gino hasn't been working out great so far, but I do think Naylor has something to do with it. I think that, you know, and I'm not saying that Dan Wilson, some people, you know, a lot of people, and the people who are like most, I think, forgiving of him do describe him very much as a vibes guy. And so the clubhouse is behind him. Although you heard that the players like service as well. I heard. But like, you know, that's there. There are different skills, and maybe you can't quantify that as much, but there are times where you can look and you can say, oh, Dan, don't do this. And then he does this thing and then it happens. Exactly. I do believe. And again, I don't have them written down. There are. That you can point to that were managerial losses in our. In our season. And I think it's more than a couple.

[Luke Burbank]

I would say that the thing about it is I think baseball is probably the sport where the managing is the least impactful on the game.

[Andrew]

Oh, wow.

[Luke Burbank]

Because think about football. Think about a system like to me, like the coach of a football team and then the coordinators that they hire can design systems that other teams are not ready, that will catch them by surprise, that will minimize their weaknesses and. And amplify their strengths, etc. I mean, to me, baseball is. And if you look at like, who is the other greatest manager, I'm not saying Dan Wilson is the greatest manager in Mariners history, but, you know, the other. Other manager to really do much in the postseason for us, Lou Pinella. Lou, I'm smoking a cigarette and drinking a Bud Light right after the game. Pinella. I'm throwing bases into the field of play because I'm mad at the umpire. Like, I think baseball is. I think baseball is a sport where, first of all, I think it's impossible. It's an impossible position to be in as the manager because the only time that you. You don't even get any credit when it works. If you bring in Spire to replace what was the first game where it was a mistake to bring inspire. It was or did not bring inspire. If you leave George Kirby in against Carpenter and you go up the home run, then you. Then you have made a grievous error. If you bring Spire in and he gets Kirby out, no one even mentions it because it was just considered the right decision. But if you bring Spire in and he gives up a home run like he did the next game or two games later, then you did that wrong.

[Andrew]

Like, I disagree. You. I mean, all I heard on Saturday were people talking on the radio about how Dan Wilson managed a amazing game. He was getting so much credit for the managerial decisions he made on Friday. He got tons of credit for that.

[Luke Burbank]

Wait, wait. Yes.

[Andrew]

You Were saying that you never get credit.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm talking about the beginning of the season.

[Andrew]

You're saying that you never get credit if things go well. And I'm saying that things went well on Friday and he's getting tons of credit for it.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, well, okay, there. There you go. That's an example. He did get credit for that game going well because I also think he made good managerial this did.

[Andrew]

I agree.

[Luke Burbank]

So maybe he's learning. Maybe.

[Andrew]

I do think that. I do think that he's adjusting. I do think that he's adjusting a little bit. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I just think that. Here's the problem. I think that it's a very, very, very thankless job because if we talk about the first two games of the Detroit Series, if he leaves George Kirby, in which he did, and then gives up a home run, he screwed up, and then a different game two games later, if he brings spire and inspire, gives up a home run, he screwed it up. And yet he does not control these players. All he can do is put in the person who has the best chance of accomplishing the thing and then hope that they accomplish the thing. And then when they don't do it, it's like he made the wrong call. You know that I just feel like for all of the baseball managers, I just think it's. I don't know. I. I think that it's. I also do feel like I like, for instance, not challenging the. I think they should have absolutely challenged Cal being out at the plate yesterday is. I think that that's our replay. I wonder. Here's. I wonder what our, like, you know, our magical replay guy who's up there somewhere. I wonder if he called that into Dan or not now, if he called that into Dan and Dan was like, like, no, I'm too busy having a few small beers, then that's a huge. That's dereliction of duty on Dan's part. But I also wonder if our guys even flagged it. Like, that's. I'd be curious about that, too.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, what information is he getting down.

[Luke Burbank]

That should have been challenged?

[Andrew]

And I didn't see that, but I had heard people saying that. In fact, I didn't even watch a replay of that. But I don't know. I do think it's about, like. So there are numbers, and then there are people who are digging even deeper into numbers. And I. I'm blanking. And I'm so sorry. I was going to look this up while you were talking there, but I didn't want to get too Distracted, but like, I listened to the beginning of Mike Salk's radio show here in town after a game last week, and it was a game that we won, but it was one of those things where it was sort of. It was after Dan had made a questionable decision, I think, to leave Bryce in, but I think we won. I might be confusing my games, but it was amazing to hear Mike, who, by the way, is not somebody who bashes managers. He's not his thing at all. But he was like. I was shocked that he left Bryce in. And it wasn't just about lefty, righty, or it was like he broke down every matchup and he was looking at velocity. What was going on with Bryce's velocity, but then also breaking down throughout the season. What happens when Bryce is facing the player's third time in the lineup? And it was so detailed. And you can sort of disagree about these sort of things, but I don't think that there's just a book that you can say, well, book says this, and so Dan just does this. I think that there are plenty of mistakes to make and plenty of people who are so damn deep into baseball that it's not as. There are times where it's kind of like anything can happen, but there are also times where you gotta be smarter.

[Luke Burbank]

But here's what I would say. There's no way Mike Salk has a deeper informational access than the Mariners pitch coordinator. I'm not talking about Pete Woodworth. There's a different guy who was on the pregame show yesterday with Shannon Dreher. And to hear this guy talking about the research that goes into literally every pitch that gets thrown by a Mariner, there's like. There's like, five guys we've never heard of who all they do all day long is watch every hitter the Mariners might face and how they respond to a specific amount of spin rate. Like, it's wild. The. The. The data on this. And I'm sure Mike totally could be right, but I.

[Andrew]

What.

[Luke Burbank]

I guess here's what I'm trying to say and what I don't know, and the reason that I can't say definitively on this is because I don't know what information is getting to Dan Wilson. And then also if Dan Wilson, when he gets that information, is choosing to ignore it, that's the part of this I don't really know. But what I know is that Pete Woodworth, the Mariners pitching coach, and the, like, five guys that work under him that just sit around all day studying literally pitching by pitch. There's no way that they're not aware of what the math is. There's no way they don't. Like, Mike Salk knows it when he's not doing a roofing ad, but somehow the Mariners, the guys that are paid to do it, don't know. So now maybe they are telling Dan this is what the math says based on every matchup that's ever happened between these people, and he's ignoring it. And if he's doing that, then sometimes maybe his gut is leading him wrong.

[Andrew]

But by this, it would just sort of sound like all managers are the same. And so it doesn't matter who you have sitting there because is just. It's all numbers and it's all by the books. Whereas, like, I've been listening to folks talking about how. And this is not people criticizing him, people actually complimenting him, saying, well, Dan's thing as a manager is he trusts his guys. He did. Sounds like he's a more of a trust your guys more than the numbers kind of guy. And that is something. And you compare him to Lupinella and like, there's who, you know, Lou Pinellas throwing bases while Dan looks like he might be nodding off at times. And like there, you know, there are different approaches to the game. And again, to his credit, maybe more important than the number him making the guys feel like they have hope in the locker room, maybe that's the case. But it's really kind of frustrating to watch when you look like when. And this was again, I'm not talking about the post season here, with a notable exception, but in the main, during the, during the regular season, when you're watching, you're just like, why are you doing this? We know exactly what's going to happen here and then it happens.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. I mean, I, I, believe me, you. You've seen the text history. I've been furiously mad at him and the Mariners a million times this season, written them off. Off. So, like, I'm not acting like I've just been the king of sanguinity this whole time, but I guess I just feel like. I guess I feel like it. The outcome from it has overall been, for me, positive. And so, like, I guess to me the proof's in the pudding and the pudding is pretty good right now. Now we could be. I could be feeling really different after today and after next week. And there could be some moments where I'm just like, what were you thinking? Thinking. But. And maybe this is what the. Maybe this is what the essential question is. I don't think you and I disagree about the amount of information that the Mariners have as an organization. I think it sounds like you're saying that what you've heard and what your opinion is that Dan is kind of a trust your guys guy, and that that's at times where he basically veers off of what the data says because he's kind of being a trust your guy guy, and you would rather him be sticks to the what the matchup says kind of guy.

[Andrew]

I just think he could be smarter. I think there are plenty of times.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, how do you define smarter? Because it's either trusting your guys or smarter to going with the data.

[Andrew]

Yeah, make. Just make smarter decisions, whether it's data or just like, what is in front of your goddamn face. Just like. I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

I just think winning the AL west, getting a buy in the first round, winning the next series and winning a game on the road, that just. I don't know how he could make smarter decisions.

[Andrew]

I mean, I. Well, he doesn't, you know, like, he's got a better team than the teams were last year.

[Luke Burbank]

He's not in the Blue Jays.

[Andrew]

No, no. Than Mariners teams. Like, you're just saying that, like, Dan must be a good manager because we're out managed.

[Luke Burbank]

He outmanaged.

[Andrew]

He had a really good game. Yes, he had an amazing. He had an amazing game on Friday and he won yesterday. And I'm not saying he always makes mistakes, and I do think that he might be getting better here in the postseason, but he's also made some obvious mistakes that he was made that he was being pointed out by everybody in national media as well. And I just don't think. I just don't think logically you can say, oh, he's a good manager because we're in the postseason. We have a bad, better team by far, with players on the basis that disregards the fact that we have a better team. Like, do you think that we would not be here with this exact team, this. The lineup that we have right now? You're saying we wouldn't be here with Scott Service because Dan. Dan's a better manager?

[Luke Burbank]

I'm saying that's unknowable. And I'm just saying so much of this is it. It is. It ultimately comes down to luck, a gut feeling, the ball bouncing a certain way, which is another way of saying luck. Like, I just think it's so not a science. Even though now we have created all this data around it to try to make it so that there's no there's less luck involved and there's less kind of gut instinct, et cetera. Like, you know, I. Listen, here's the thing. I guess I don't even. I don't even really believe it or not, despite the last 20 minutes, I don't even have a really strong opinion on if Dan Wilson is a good manager or not, or if the Mariners would have won more games with or without him. But I guess I just think on this day of all days, I just don't feel like our biggest problem. Not that you're saying this, but I don't think I'm just not. I guess I'm not that worked up about Dan Wilson's managing personally because I just feel like it's going kind of well right now.

[Andrew]

Well, let's get back to why we got on this topic. I'm not going around complaining about Dan Wilson today. You're just saying that you sort of like this beer loving, kind of lackadaisical approach. And I'm kind of like, well, it also is the same, same sort of demeanor that he has when he's not challenging things that should obviously be challenged. And the sort of lackadaisical approach to, you know, again, sort of being the anti Pinella and like, and just kind of like really just being like, okay, whatever happened? And I'm admitting that that is a superficial take on my part. I'm not connecting the two things you.

[Luke Burbank]

Don'T think my beer take is, but.

[Andrew]

That'S, that's just what got us here. I'm not mad at Dan Wilson today, even though we're having this conversation. I just think that, like, it's kind of. I don't, you know, I don't. I would just, I was just sort of making an observation that, yeah, he is a little bit like Benicio Del Toro. Just like maybe. And he's a very successful character. So, you know.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, right. I guess a few what, A few small beers.

[Andrew]

But it playing into this knock on.

[Luke Burbank]

Do we want Benicio Del Toro managing the Mariners?

[Andrew]

Maybe. Honestly. But like, the knock on him being that he isn't kind of seeming engaged enough in these moments, kind of just kind of like, okay, all right.

[Luke Burbank]

I think also by, by the way, what is coming out right now in this conversation and what the listeners would be maybe observing is the amount of Seattle sports talk radio that you listen to versus what I listen to. I listen to zero of it, and you listen to a lot of it to where you can identify calligraphy commercials that are unusual in the milieu.

[Andrew]

And in this case, national too. I think that's what's really gotten me, too, is kind of a lot of national conversations about. About his style of coaching.

[Luke Burbank]

But. Okay, but previous to this, like, during the regular season, I mean, first of all, I totally dismiss what the national announcers are saying, because to me, they're morons. They're like Alex Rodriguez and Big Poppy. Like, so I don't know about the.

[Andrew]

TV broadcasters during a game.

[Luke Burbank]

Who are you talking about?

[Andrew]

I just mean I've been. A.J.

[Luke Burbank]

Persinski.

[Andrew]

I don't know, man. Like the podcast I was listening to, the John Boy Media podcast and the, you know, just like various. Like, I'm just saying it's not. I know I quoted. I guess I'm getting a little defensive because I sort of feel like you're putting me in the corner of like, just like quoting Mike Salk. And maybe I'm talking too broadly here because I can't. I, again, I don't have a game in game decision that I can kind of point to from like July or something like that, but there does. I think that there. I think that there are conversations you can have about smart managers versus not so smart managers that rely on more information than just whether or not you made it to the. The postseason. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And by the way, just so you know, I wasn't trying to say that Mike Salk doesn't know what he's talking about. I wasn't trying to like, denigrate your argument because it. Because of Mike Salk. What I was trying to say was you have spent this whole season listening to people who have been breaking these games down after they happen, like regular season games. And they've got to fill their day part. They've got to fill their show with analysis of the game. And so they're thinking about it and talking about, and you're listening to it. And they, I'm sure, make a lot of good points. And then I'm just here in Southern Washington, like, listening to, you know, like Pablo Torre finds out talk about if you can tickle people in the ufc. And so I am coming into this without any real priors on Dan Wilson and his decision making over the season, you know, whereas you've been listening to a lot of it. And again, a lot of it, I'm sure, is totally right. So that is just so you know, my point, what I was, where I was going with that wasn't that you're getting bad information. My point was that this is not even a thing I've been thinking about about very much because I just don't like in the regular season. I just haven't. I don't listen to any Seattle sports talk and so I just don't. I don't think about Dan Wilson very much and his man managing style. So you. You have more info on this than I do. I'm actually trying to give you credit.

[Andrew]

Thanks. I appreciate it. And sorry I got defensive there. I just. It's just been again, a season long frustration with him in general and again. And Genevieve can just say, but we're in the postseason, so he's obviously a good manager. And I just kind of of keep saying like we're in the postseason. That is true. It doesn't mean he's a good manager. And I'm sure he's a very good guy. People seem to absolutely love him. And maybe that's the magic. Maybe that is more important is vibes. I don't subscribe to vibes being more important than in game decision making. But like you say, I guess we're here.

[Luke Burbank]

I think the problem is that your partner and I agree on everything.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

And I think you're trying to somehow you're trying to work on your relationship with Genevieve through me, and this is not the place for you.

[Andrew]

That's exactly what it is.

[Luke Burbank]

Please.

[Andrew]

Oh, I found out, by the way, I also learned that the dates are wrong. I guess dog sitting starts tomorrow. Whatever that looks like.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, shit. That's a big. That's a big story.

[Andrew]

What did I just hear, though? I'm racking my brain because these little moments of you and Genevieve being the same person keep on coming up. And it's so weird. The other day I got off the. Did I get done doing the show with you? And I said something to Genevieve about something that you bought and she says, oh, I have one on the way or something. It's like these small things that are just kind of like, what? I didn't even heard of this before. Exactly. Exactly. Man, I was looking. I was looking back at. Can I. Let's just close out with this. I'm looking back at last year's roster because I was just like sort of thinking like, you know, how much does Dan Wilson get to take credit? And just like some of these names that we were playing, we were trying to. Samad Taylor. And by the way, I like Samad Taylor.

[Luke Burbank]

I always apologist for a.

[Andrew]

Last year we had a Cade Marlowe, my dude. I mean, we had a very, you know, end of his career. Mitch Haniger. Again, I'm not Trying to throw Hannah Goat. Oh, but still, that was so rough last year. Justin Turner, of course he didn't stick around. It's just like, I'm just looking at some of these names. Remember Sebi behind. He was our backup catcher last year, Sebi Zavala or whatever. Just like, my God, it's like ghosts.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, yeah, there's nothing that is. That I saw. This is actually a different. This is a whole different thing because this was the last time somebody put up a lineup card of like the last time the Mariners won an ALDS game, which is very different because that team, by definition would have been good. And your point is? We had some real stiffs last year, which you're right about. But it was just looking at these names. It was like Mark McLemore and like, you know, we used to, you know, we used to have a Macklemore who wasn't a rapper.

[Andrew]

Now. How did he feel about Ceilings?

[Luke Burbank]

It was very, very pro. But like, just. There's just also. There's something about baseball and naming some guys that's just the craziest.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Like, because there's so many players that cycle through in a season and like the some guyness. No, but I hear what you're saying is that, like, it's funny to think about some of the people that we were that we needed in critical moments last season compared to the people that we have now. You know, and it's. It is. It is. The world is a better place. I think you're right. I think that the under. Maybe the under sold thing about this whole season has actually been Polanco. Honestly, like, I mean, Cal Raleigh, that turn around Cal. Yeah, I don't. I mean, you can't say enough about Cal and the fact that he's hitting for average too in the playoffs, which is just amazing. And Josh Naylor, last minute, whatever, but like low key in all of that. I just think quietly Polanco being good and then kind of bad, but then kind of pretty good again and then really good in the playoffs. It's like, golly, I didn't see that coming.

[Andrew]

I love him so much. I remember. Do you remember I was saying to you, I think it was last year, maybe the very beginning of this season, when he's still scuffling a little bit, is like, he has not been good for us. But I like, like, I always loved him.

[Luke Burbank]

I love something about you were at your mind.

[Andrew]

I really, I've always loved him.

[Luke Burbank]

I like how he looks. How he looks. Striking out.

[Andrew]

I know but there's just something. And there's something about seeing him be good that is just so wonderful. And that wasn't a. That wasn't a. No, that wasn't a prediction. It was just like, bummed me out because he seemed like such a fun, level guy.

[Luke Burbank]

It was a vibes thing.

[Andrew]

It was. It was definitely.

[Luke Burbank]

You should think about being more of a vibes guy. No, you were. Dude. There was no one who was more pissed that they resigned Polanco to play third base than yours truly.

[Andrew]

A lot of people.

[Luke Burbank]

I almost quit on this team. I almost quit on this team. The day that announcement came out. That was, to me, the ultimate capitulation. Before the season started. It was your answer for third base is a guy who sucked last year and hasn't played third base since high.

[Andrew]

School or something that I was so furious about that I remember, because, remember, I was going. My whole thing. They would always say, the coaches are. Especially Jerry would say, oh, we just want to put our players in the best position to win. I'm like, then why are you playing a person at third base who's never played third base before and making an ass of himself out there? I was mad on behalf of Polanco. That is right. Literally not putting your players literally in a position to win. Not figuratively.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, and by the way, you know, he wasn't good at third.

[Andrew]

No, terrible.

[Luke Burbank]

They moved him after like five games. And this is the last thing I'll say before mercifully, maybe we can. We can end this torture. We're also now actually getting close to the pregame shows for the game. Probably stop our post game show and begin the real pregame shows by listening to them. But did you see who. When they decided, when they put Wu on the action active lineup, on the active roster, who that bumped off the act?

[Andrew]

No, I was actually curious.

[Luke Burbank]

Ben Williamson.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. So he was still hanging around just in case. Right?

[Luke Burbank]

They had. He was. If. If Wu wouldn't have been able to even theoretically go, Williamson would have been. And they also, by the way, put Master Bony on for Rayleigh. You saw that?

[Andrew]

Yes, I did. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

That was my. It's my. I'm. I'm calling it Master Bony Hero Series.

[Andrew]

It would be hilarious. God, I gotta dust off following in.

[Luke Burbank]

This, following Leo Rivas here. He's here. Hero series. Miles Master of Boat Hero series would be really quite something to see. But poor Ben Williamson. All he did was come in as a rookie, I think, play very solid defense, very good defense, get immediately jettisoned for Gino Suarez, who's hit for like an absolute turd out there. And then he gets back on with his chance to like actually get to play in the alcs. And then like, let's bring on a pitcher on the 0.05% chance that I don't feel strongly that Wu is going to pitch in this series. I feel like the goalpost keeps, keeps moving, don't you?

[Andrew]

You know, I'm not sure about that. It definitely would be near the end of the series if they're, you know, if the series goes long. But I guess I was a little. I guess now we're just sort of getting into this. I'm a little confused right now. If you have woo. There are we basic. We basically have a four person rotation if you're not counting Woo. Right. Because some people were like we're surprised we're we're putting in Logan today. And I was like, well what's the other option? I guess technically has more rep. That was it.

[Luke Burbank]

I think that that was. I think the theory was that Logan threw more pitches than Castillo on Friday.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And therefore it would have been more logical to throw Castillo out there. But they, I think Logan is actually seen as the stronger choice. Like in other words, the upside of Logan is considered to be higher. Like and, and what I read in the paper today was that they were always planning on throwing Logan out here today because we assumed we were going to lose game one. So Logan was supposed to be the stopper. We were like, we have to basically like we have to risk it with Logan on, on whatever today is Monday.

[Andrew]

So they were planning on Logan before yesterday's game.

[Luke Burbank]

This is what I read in the paper was that it was always going to be Logan because we thought that our best chance of winning today was with Logan. And so even though it didn't make sense because Castillo was more rested, it was like we think, I mean Logan might just have better like numbers. Although Logan doesn't have great numbers against the Jays this season. I want to, to point this out. We might be trying to back to back buck the odds here because Logan's Logan. The last time he threw against Toronto it didn't go well. It's kind of, it feels like we're just going, we're kind of millering it up again. We're kind of throwing a person in there who in recent history has not been killing it against the Toronto Blue Jays in Toronto. And we're just kind of hoping for a different outcome. And it worked yesterday. So maybe it'll Work two times in a row.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And again, the options are sort of limited because you don't have any. Anybody who's fully fresh. Right. And, like, I guess you have Emerson Hancock, who's kind of like a. A bullpen guy, former starter who could be thrown in there to eat up some innings, but you're not gonna.

[Luke Burbank]

It's kind of wild. He hasn't even gotten an appearance.

[Andrew]

I'm gonna surprise by that, too. Which is funny, because this is something I must be wrong about is like, I've sort of kept. I keep on thinking about him as sort of a little back door. Little. Well, backdoor is the wrong word, but almost like a little bit of. How can I not. How can I say ace up my sleeve without it being that strong? Like, jack up my sleeve.

[Luke Burbank]

Right.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, he's a fresh arm who can actually kind of eat up some innings. Pretty clean. You never know, though. I mean, I guess it's. He's. He's not very dependable, but I'm kind of like, man, we haven't even touched him. I couldn't believe we didn't touch him on Friday.

[Luke Burbank]

I think it's because probably they don't consider him what you call a high leverage arm. I think to place for Emerson and maybe Lake and Palmer, if they can get, you know, get them all together would be like. You need someone to go, like, three pretty good innings. You need someone to go three innings and. And keep it close. Three innings and only give up one to two runs. I think that's when you bring him in. I. Again, I'm talking, like. I know, but, like, as opposed to even these guys, like, Spire and Bizardo and them. Even though sometimes they don't do well and it makes us crazy. Their whole job description and the thing they're used to is, like, coming in with no margins for error. That's why when they put Castillo in on Friday night, I was nervous, because what does Castillo do every time he starts a game? Yeah. He immediately puts two people on. It takes him three innings to, like, lock in. And I was like, we don't have three innings for you to lock in, bro. Like, I was. Of all the things about Friday night that made me happy and pleasantly surprised, the fact that those starters just came in and just did what they did, even though it was like, they're, like. For Logan anyway, his first relief appearance, maybe, like, ever in his. His life. Like, I was so stoked about that because I could also have seen that just blowing up, like, such a different mental State.

[Andrew]

I heard something that's really stuck with me that I thought was really interesting. I think you will, too. That really shocked me and does underscore my, like, kind of lack of knowledge on a lot of these things. I. It was Friday. I'm walking to the Eagles and I'm listening to the pregame show, and I'm listening to two former pitchers talk.

[Luke Burbank]

It.

[Andrew]

It must have been Furbush and our boy Hyphen, Right?

[Luke Burbank]

Ryan Roland Smith.

[Andrew]

Ryan Roland Smith. And it was a little roundtable, but the fact that there were two.

[Luke Burbank]

I think we have an Australian and he's not the guy named Furbush. Weird to me.

[Andrew]

Good call. The fact that we have a little roundtable going with baseball people talking, but two of them are former pitchers. One thing that they both said and vehemently was something that I didn't really consider, which was they feel like Castillo's big win, win against Detroit when he started. And I'm blanking on which day that was. But the one thing I definitely remember about that is he racked up 25 pitches in the first inning and 25 pitches in the second inning. I remember him going 50 pitches by the end of the second inning and just thinking, how long can this go on? But then he settled in, as he often does, and really pitched a hell of a game. But both of those pitchers were like, he got lucky. They're just like, what they knew and what they were seeing about him later on in the game, they're just like, they were saying, we couldn't believe that Dan had left him in. And that was not one of the times I was complaining about Dan at all. I was. I remember I texted you guys, I'm like, you never judge Castillo on the first two innings. Let him settle in. And, like, that's always my thing. But these two pitchers, and I can't remember exactly what they were saying about it, but they were so in agreement on the fact that. That, like, Dan got lucky and Castillo got lucky because they would have pulled him before that. And they were again saying, I'm glad he didn't. But it was just kind of like they're just seeing things that I'm not seeing. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. It's. It's a. It's a. I'm gonna say something very uninteresting. It's crazy, crazy world. And by that I mean, Andrew, the fact that we actually did an hour before this show.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

About the Mariners.

[Andrew]

And then that one might have been better. Honestly, I'm not sure. I.

[Luke Burbank]

Like, then an extra hour.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

That wasn't enough for us. One hour about the Mariners not for broadcast, then the whole regular show and then an additional 45 to 50 minutes about the Mariners allegedly for broadcast. And here we are, my friend.

[Andrew]

I think if we had 55 minutes.

[Luke Burbank]

Out from first pitch.

[Andrew]

I think if we had done anything under two hours today, though, listeners would have literally been disappointed at this.

[Luke Burbank]

I saw people were clamoring for it. People were saying like, well, for. People were saying emergency show on Saturday.

[Andrew]

Oh, I didn't see that on online.

[Luke Burbank]

And like, I almost called you. Like, I was so delirious on Friday night. I was like. But I didn't want to. I didn't want to guilt trip you into it. But no, people were definitely saying they wanted a long show today. And, and, and you got it. You got it, America and parts of Canada that are still listening. Anyway, we love you, we appreciate all of you. That's going to do it for today's episode of tbtl. But guess what? We'll be right back here tomorrow. More imaginary radio for you. So please do join us for that. In the meantime, have a a great Monday. Take care of yourselves. Go Mariners. And please remember, no mountain too tall.

[Andrew]

And good luck to all. Oh, man. Guys, I've never watched a Mariners game, and I only watched it because I listened to you guys and I knew that you were so excited about this game. And I can't believe I stayed up and watched 15 or 18 Endgame. It was so exciting and I'm so happy for you guys. Have a good one. Bye, Cobros. It's 10 o' clock Friday night. The Mariners just won. We did it. Woohoo. Power out.